Ashland City ADA not NFA friendly - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ashland City ADA not NFA friendly (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 12/12/2007 12:12:57 PM EDT

One of my customers submitted his Form 4 to the Cheatham County Sheriff's Department for the CLEO signature, and was turned down by the Sheriff. The Sheriff said he would double-check with the Assistant District Attorney this morning, to ensure he was correct.

The customer called me to tell me that the ADA advised the Sheriff to deny the signature, based on TCA 39-17-1302 (Prohibited Weapons).

Here is what TCA 39-17-1302 says:

"39-17-1302. Prohibited Weapons.
(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) An explosive or an explosive weapon;
(2) A device principally designed, made or adapted for delivering or shooting an explosive weapon;
(3) A machine gun;
(4) A short-barrel rifle or shotgun;
(5) A firearm silencer;
.
.
.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person's conduct:
(1) ...
(7) Involved acquisition or possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun or firearm silencer which is validly registered to the person under federal law in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Records. A person who acquires or possesses a firearm registered as required by this subdivision shall retain proof of registration.
..."

So, I called the ADA, and spoke to him about it. He said that NFA weapons are illegal, and the owners of such can take their chances in court with a jury. As we know, they are legal. Unfortunately, some ADA's aren't as gun-friendly as we'd hope. There are still those, even in TN, who will attempt to prosecute lawful owners of legally owned weapons. I guess he doesn't like his successful conviction percentages, and would rather waste money prosecuting cases which can't be won by his office. I wonder how much money his office wastes on unwinnable cases?

I'd love to see him attempt to prosecute me for possessing my NFA weapons within his jurisdiction. I love seeing public officials wiping egg off of their faces.

Posted: 12/12/2007 12:18:05 PM EDT

[#1]

Send them this:

The sheriff or chief of police of the city of residence of a person purchasing any firearm, defined by the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845 et seq., shall execute within fifteen (15) business days of any request all documents required to be submitted by the purchaser if the purchaser is not prohibited from possessing firearms pursuant to § 39-17-1316.

If that doesn't work, sue.

ETA: a local gun dealer said the same thing about a surrounding county sheriff. He sent him a copy of the law and explained it was required. The guy complained but signed.

Posted: 12/12/2007 12:35:31 PM EDT

[#2]

Oh, I mentioned that. The ADA replied that silencers are illegal, and anyone owning one will have to try their luck with a jury.

That's when I told him we'd just bypass him and the Sheriff by forming an NFA Trust. He didn't seem to like that idea. Oh well, that's what he gets for being unfriendly towards safety devices.

Posted: 12/12/2007 1:23:06 PM EDT

[#3]

Don't bypass him.

Hold his ass to the law. Call the State. Have them send him "clarification".

I would sue, but that's me.

Regarding this:

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person's conduct:
(1) ...
(7) Involved acquisition or possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun or firearm silencer which is validly registered to the person under federal law in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Records. A person who acquires or possesses a firearm registered as required by this subdivision shall retain proof of registration.
..."

I believe it is similar in wording to the carry permit statute.

Says it's illegal to "Intend to go armed", but it is a "defense to prosecution" if one holds a carry permit.

Someone might want to check that.

F 'em.

HKO

Posted: 12/12/2007 1:33:28 PM EDT

[#4]

I actually called the State AG's office. Whoever answered the phone simply transferred me to the Handgun Permit Office, which has nothing to do with NFA weapons.

I have a friend who is a State's Prosecuting Attorney in Hamilton County. I'm going to call him for advice this evening.

Posted: 12/12/2007 2:15:25 PM EDT

[#5]

Sounds like someone with some property needs to have the First Annual Machine Gun Shoot pretty soon.

Get a little media coverage and stress the fact that the Sheriff is in fact forcing legal owners to bypass Law Enforcement, Fingerprinting, and Background Checks by taking other legal options.

Make sure the ADA gets some credit also.

Let us know when its planned so we can get our 5320.20s in order.

Posted: 12/12/2007 3:39:49 PM EDT

[#6]

I am not a lawyer not do I pretend to play one but, If they are in fact required to sign off it, provided the person in question is not a prohibited person it sound like they should call the TBI and have some people arrested for breaking the law by not signing off. That would send a pretty quick message.

Posted: 12/12/2007 4:08:46 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Don't bypass him.

Hold his ass to the law. Call the State. Have them send him "clarification".

I completely agree with HKO!

Educate them by holding them to the law.

LB

Posted: 12/12/2007 4:37:32 PM EDT

[#8]

Perhaps he just needs to bump it up a step to the ADA's (Assistant District Attorney's) boss?

HKO

Posted: 12/12/2007 4:45:11 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Perhaps he just needs to bump it up a step to the ADA's (Assistant District Attorney's) boss?

HKO

I actually called his boss, the DA for Cheatham County first, and was directed to speak to the ADA, as he is the one who handles issues in Ashland City.

I'm going to make a few more phone calls tomorrow.

Posted: 12/13/2007 4:48:16 AM EDT

[#10]

Have you contacted the TFA? They would know where pressure should be applied to get results.

Posted: 12/13/2007 4:57:01 AM EDT

[#11]

Don't bypass him.

Hold his ass to the law.

Amen. Sue.

Posted: 12/13/2007 5:17:44 AM EDT

[#12]

Publicity

Posted: 12/13/2007 8:11:24 AM EDT

[#13]

I give customers a copy of the law to hand to the LEO with the form 4 etc...
Be nice, be polite etc... If he/she refuse to sign without cause, contact a lawyer.
DO NOT LET THEM OFF THE HOOK! They MUST follow the law just like you and I!!!!!!

www.bteamarms.com

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/Bteaminc/tnnfaleo.jpg

Posted: 12/13/2007 8:44:53 AM EDT

[#14]

BTEAMARMS,

The problem arises because the ADA refuses to use common sense.

He says that the mere possession of an NFA weapon is illegal, therefore prohibited, meaning the Sheriff doesn't have to sign. He stated that an affirmative defense means the arresstee will have to try his luck in front of a judge and jury.

Of course, if we extrapolate that idea further, that menas the Williamson County Sheriff's Department's SRT is manned by a bunch of unconvicted felons, for they all possess suppressors for their FN PS90's. Oh, and the soldiers on Fort Campbell need to be arressted, also. They can then go to court and use an affirmative defense that they were acting within their military duties, in accordance with TCA 39-17-1302, (b)(1).

Somethings just don't pass the common sense test, and some folks just don't use common sense.

Posted: 12/13/2007 9:13:02 AM EDT

[#15]

OEF_VET, I see you found my site

Posted: 12/13/2007 9:27:55 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
OEF_VET, I see you found my site

Yep. Sorry about the double-tap. Any way to edit out the second posting?

Posted: 12/13/2007 9:31:17 AM EDT

[#17]

double tap is fine. not big deal.

Posted: 12/13/2007 10:00:54 AM EDT

[#18]

How much help or harm would flooding the Cheatham County DA’s office with calls regarding do? I’m sure enough support could be drummed up to keep the DA’s office answering calls for a while.

Posted: 12/13/2007 10:33:40 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
How much help or harm would flooding the Cheatham County DA’s office with calls regarding do? I’m sure enough support could be drummed up to keep the DA’s office answering calls for a while.

I just don't want to draw unwarranted attention to my customer. If too many people call the ADA or Sheriff, it wouldn't be too difficult for them to make my customer a persona non grata. The last thing he needs is a deputy sheriff sitting down his road, looking for any excuse to stop him.

Posted: 12/13/2007 12:57:41 PM EDT

[#20]

OEF, sent you an IM. not sure if it went or not. let me know.

Posted: 12/13/2007 2:13:11 PM EDT

[#21]

It sounds as though the ada wants to push the issue into the courts, knowing that most people won't / can't afford / or can't or won't fight.... He most likley will refuse to let any go through until a court orders him to change his interpatation.
Just another road block to stop a transaction....

www.bteamarms.com

Posted: 12/13/2007 3:45:48 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
It sounds as though the ada wants to push the issue into the courts, knowing that most people won't / can't afford / or can't or won't fight.... He most likley will refuse to let any go through until a court orders him to change his interpatation.
Just another road block to stop a transaction....

www.bteamarms.com

And that's why I've got the State Attorney General's office working on it. hehe I'm a really devilish sort when I want to be.

Posted: 12/13/2007 10:06:14 PM EDT

[#23]

You may want to also contact the board of professional responsibility. It governs the all attorney's in the state of TN and can revoke or suspend their license if they are found to violate the rules of the court. I personally can't stand those who are suppose to uphold the law to be ignorant of the law.

Posted: 12/14/2007 1:47:37 AM EDT

[#24]

I agree with the idea of a complaint to TBPR.

www.tbpr.org/

Posted: 12/14/2007 4:57:25 AM EDT

[#25]

height=8

Quoted:
height=8

Quoted:
How much help or harm would flooding the Cheatham County DA’s office with calls regarding do? I’m sure enough support could be drummed up to keep the DA’s office answering calls for a while.

I just don't want to draw unwarranted attention to my customer. If too many people call the ADA or Sheriff, it wouldn't be too difficult for them to make my customer a persona non grata. The last thing he needs is a deputy sheriff sitting down his road, looking for any excuse to stop him.

Makes sense.

Posted: 12/14/2007 6:03:53 AM EDT

[#26]

This sounds like an ADA who is an ass and a DA who doesn't want to do his job.

The ADA needs to be prosecuted. He is violating the law. If the DA does not fire him, the DA should be prosecuted.

Posted: 12/14/2007 6:40:36 AM EDT

[#27]

Is there any reason NRA cant help? This is straight bullshit. This ADA's feelings on the issue are irrelevant, and I dont give a shit if he likes the law or not, he HAS to follow it. Someone needs to force the issue. Lets take up a legal fee's collection on Arfcom and elsewhere and hand this guy his ass.

Posted: 12/14/2007 6:43:02 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Is there any reason NRA cant help?

Working on it.

Posted: 12/14/2007 6:53:07 AM EDT

[#29]

Good, anybody who is not infuriated by stuff like this is an enemy of gun rights, period.

Posted: 12/14/2007 10:16:18 AM EDT

[#30]

You should post this on GD and launch a fire mission, assuming your customer isnt trying to be discreet.

Posted: 12/14/2007 4:59:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Here is a link to a .PDF version of the Shall Sign law that Govenor Bredesen signed.

TN Shall Sign law .PDF format
I have never voted for a Democrat before but once he did that he had my vote.

LB

Posted: 12/15/2007 12:14:30 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted: Is there any reason NRA cant help?

The fact the NRA loves to throw the NFA community under the bus? I'm not even a NFA owner yet because I'm a broke-ass E-5, but I meet way too many skeet snobs and deer hunters at the NRA building when I go.

Posted: 12/15/2007 12:53:47 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
BTEAMARMS,

The problem arises because the ADA refuses to use common sense.

He says that the mere possession of an NFA weapon is illegal, therefore prohibited, meaning the Sheriff doesn't have to sign. He stated that an affirmative defense means the arresstee will have to try his luck in front of a judge and jury.

Of course, if we extrapolate that idea further, that menas the Williamson County Sheriff's Department's SRT is manned by a bunch of unconvicted felons, for they all possess suppressors for their FN PS90's. Oh, and the soldiers on Fort Campbell need to be arressted, also. They can then go to court and use an affirmative defense that they were acting within their military duties, in accordance with TCA 39-17-1302, (b)(1).

Somethings just don't pass the common sense test, and some folks just don't use common sense.

The law doesnt saw affirmative defense, it says defense from prosecution. AFAIK those are two completely different things. One says "yes, judge I broke the law but it was ok for me to do it because... (affirmative defense)" The other says sorry Mr. DA you can't take this to court because....(defense from prosecution).

<----I'm not a lawyer but I did play one on a mock trial team

Posted: 12/15/2007 3:53:26 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

The fact the NRA loves to throw the NFA community under the bus? I'm not even a NFA owner yet because I'm a broke-ass E-5, but I meet way too many skeet snobs and deer hunters at the NRA building when I go.

You need to hit a different NRA building............

Given where you are though, this isn't too surprising, IMO. It is what it is, I guess.

Posted: 12/19/2007 10:01:50 AM EDT

[#35]

I saw over on Bowers sight a thread about getting the County Coroner to sign off on NFA stuff.
http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=635441

Posted: 12/19/2007 10:29:08 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I saw over on Bowers sight a thread about getting the County Coroner to sign off on NFA stuff.
http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=635441

That won't help in this case because Tennessee does not have Coroners. We have a Medical Examiner system, and I don't think our MEs have any type of law enforcement authority.

Posted: 12/19/2007 1:16:21 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted: You need to hit a different NRA building............

Given where you are though, this isn't too surprising, IMO. It is what it is, I guess.

I was talking about the big one in Fairfax, VA. I volunteer at the Museum when I'm up there on leave, and in fact pitched in a little when the NFM did the Thompson exhibit. Yeah, it was a draw for the Museum, but nobody on the legislative side really wants to play Save the Machine Guns since they're even more politically incorrect than the "assault" rifles.

Posted: 12/20/2007 4:08:15 PM EDT

[#38]

I spoke with the State Representative for Franklin, Mr. Glen Casada, today in regards to this issue. He is going to request an opinion vis a vis TCA 39-17-1361 for me from the State Attorney General. He is also going to request an opinion regarding carrying smooth-bore handguns, aka AOW's, with a TN Handgun Carry Permits.

I have to e-mail him the particulars, and he asked me to write the questions as I feel they should be worded, since I'm the one who fully understands what is being requested.

Mr. Casada struck me as a genuine friend to gun owners. He assured me that he is a member of the NRA, is a gun owner, and that one of his priorities is making sure our rights to keep and bear arms is not infringed. It's nice to know that some legislators are friends of ours. Based on his enthusiasm to handle this request, it was obvious he wasn't just paying lip service to the 2nd Amendment.

With any luck, this will be resolved favorably ASAP!

Posted: 12/21/2007 5:24:53 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I spoke with the State Representative for Franklin, Mr. Glen Casada, today in regards to this issue. He is going to request an opinion vis a vis TCA 39-17-1361 for me from the State Attorney General. He is also going to request an opinion regarding carrying smooth-bore handguns, aka AOW's, with a TN Handgun Carry Permits.

So, you are going through with that after all? awesome. good luck, and keep us updated.

Posted: 12/21/2007 6:58:24 AM EDT

[#40]

Wow, this is all very strange news to me. A buddy of mine just turned in 3 short barrel rifle forms and 2 forms for silencers in Cheatham County a few weeks back and it only took him 4-5 weeks to get it all completed.

I'll ask him who did the work and who to talk to.

Posted: 12/21/2007 7:29:27 AM EDT

[#41]

Frank, I sent a pm to you with contact info. I hope this helps.

Posted: 12/24/2007 4:03:16 AM EDT

[#42]

I was going to SBR an AK pistol back in October. Talked to the Sheriff of Cheatham Co. himself on the phone. It was a Wednesday and I was going to meet him on a Friday. He gave me his direct number so I could make sure he was in his office before I drove down there. Over the next two days I decided against the SBR hassle and just forgot about it.

Point being he didn't seem to have any problem with me getting it SBR'd, at least none that he mentioned. He seemed helpful.

YMMV.

Posted: 1/2/2008 8:57:02 AM EDT

[#43]

Any resolution to this problem?

Posted: 1/2/2008 11:02:56 AM EDT

[#44]

It looks like Frank is right and something fishy is going on in Cheatham County. I just talked to my buddy and he said his paperwork was denied this time (another suppressor) because the DA (Bob Wilson) has been putting his 2 cents in and has the sheriff (John Holder) somehow convinced that suppressors are illegal

.

I asked him why he signed off on the last 3 he's done in the last few months if they were considered "illegal" and he said he's going to look into it further (he's close friends with the assistant DA).

He said he could spend money and fight it but he's going to look into what's really going on first and see if the assistant DA (who is VERY pro-firearms) can get to the bottom of it first.

Posted: 1/3/2008 3:28:33 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
It looks like Frank is right and something fishy is going on in Cheatham County.

Gee, that's never happened there before..................

Posted: 1/4/2008 5:21:00 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It looks like Frank is right and something fishy is going on in Cheatham County.

Gee, that's never happened there before..................

No kidding, I moved out of that corrupt county 4 years ago. Ashland City and Pleasant View are one horse towns with a 2 horse price tag on them.

Posted: 1/14/2008 6:47:10 AM EDT

[#47]

OEF_VET, check your email.

Posted: 1/23/2008 7:35:45 PM EDT

[#48]

any update?

I live in Maury county and have not had an issue with our CLEO.

Actually, he was a hell of a guy. Offered for me to come shoot with him and his guys.