This happened back on the 19th, I don't post here much, but have decided to mirror my story on the few forums that I visit.

I went to pick up my Remington 700, and went to the bank to pull out cash for it. I don’t use credit cards at my gunshop because there is another 4% charge thrown on, so I’m cheap. I usually carry my sidearm wherever I go, butt I made a note of it today, since $600 is a lot of money to me. I went to the bank, filled out a check made to cash, and went up to the teller. I have been using this bank for a year now, and have OC’d in there many times and not had an issue. This time I went up to the teller

As we were exchanging greetings and I was sliding the check and deposit slip on the counter, another teller came up to me from a desk. I thought he was only going to talk to me, but instead he grabbed my right arm(strongside) we had the following conversation

Teller: You have to take that off.
Me: I do?
Teller: yes this is a federal building and you will need to take it off and put it in your vehicle


Being halfway between a transaction, I looked at the checks that I was handing over to the lady behind the counter. The teller that grabbed my arm tried to take the checks and deposit slip from my hand and said “ I can finish your transaction” to which I told him no, I would do it myself. I then asked if we could step outside to talk about this since my weapon wasn’t allowed in the bank. He said yes, and I led him out. After we got outside, he said the following.

Teller: this is a federal building, you are not allowed to bring a weapon into a federal building

Me: this is not a federal building, this is a private local bank

Teller: this is FDIC and therefore a federal building

I knew this was not accurate, so I asked if I could talk to the owner, and in the meantime I said I would put my sidearm in my car. He said OK and got on the phone. I put my gun in my car and walked back to him, he said it was ok to go and do my transaction, so I did. After I got outside, I stood around for 10 minutes while he was on the phone. Little did I know that this teller, instead of calling his boss, called the police.

I walked up to him and said: This is your boss?
Teller: No, these are people that will explain to you what you did wrong.

So the sheriff, and two others from Jackson city police, from two squad cars come up to me. One asked if there was a problem, the teller, told them I came into the building, and said that when he asked me to leave, said I was “adamant’ about finishing my transaction.

After he said that, I replied that I was only adamant because he came up, grabbed me by the arm, and tried to take my checks from my hand.

There were three officers, one to the left, center and right.

Right officer: Where is your sidearm now?
Me: In my car, sir.
Right officer: where in your car?
Me: In the center console, sir.
Right officer: what kind of gun?
Me: a 1911
Right officer: is it ok if I look at it?
Me: No sir, that is not needed.


The right officer asked for my ID, and called in on his radio.

The center officer then asked if I had been in trouble. to which I said I never have been. He asked how long I’d been here, to which I said a year. He asked where I was from, I told him Maryland.

Center officer: Would you carry a gun into a bank in Maryland.
Me: No sir, it is not legal to carry there, but if it was, then I would.
Him: what you did was stupid, would you carry a gun into a bar here?
Me: No sir, I don’t drink.
Him: I don't care if you do, lets say you were going to a bar, would you bring a gun?
Me: No sir
Right Officer: Why are you carrying a loaded gun around?
Me: Sir, I’m drawing out a lot of money and want to make sure I am safe
Right Officer: how much?
Me: $600 sir.
Right officer: $600? Is that it? Maybe 600,000 I’d understand.
I told him that that was a huge hunk of my savings, and was therefore a lot to me.

Center Officer: Are you a dumbass?
Me: No sir, but I am a citizen and have a right to carry
Centerofficer:Shut the hell up and don't interrupt me
Me: Yes sir
Center officer: You're a dumbass, I have a feeling we'll be having a lot of trouble with you.

They then talked about wether it was legal for me to OC into a bank.

Center Officer: this sounds like an issue for the FBI, they could answer it, in fact, I'm gonna give them a call right now.

Right officer: I'm already talking to them
*minute passes by*
Right officer: Ok, it doesn't look like it's illegal.

center officer: So if you walked out with all your money and someone robbed you, would you shoot him?
Me: No sir, if someone robbed me, then they robbed me, but if someone robbed me, then tried to take my life, I would defend myself.

At the end, after they told me to leave and to “have some common sense” I asked the center officer if I could have his business card in case I had any more questions, and he said “@#$% no” and they all walked off.

This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole" I since have gone back to the bank. I talked to one of the managers, and the manager informed me that there is a policy against guns. I will be getting a written letter of apology from the teller, and in return I won't be pressing charges against him for assault. I will be taking my business to another bank, and let the manager know that. BTW the bank does not have a "no firearms" sign in the window

As for the center police officer, I will be filing a formal complaint against him, for unprofessional conduct, and refusing to identify himself. Since there were three cops, and only me, I doubt anything will come from it. I fear however, that since this is a small town, I will be getting harassed by this officer in the future(I have already seen the right officer drive around twice since, so running into them is fairly simple. There was even an officer in the business I work for, walking around. in the conversation above, when talking about money, I told them where I worked, when they asked)

I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.

Good luck on getting something done about the officer. Sounds like a real power tripping tool.

The "we're FDIC so this is a federal building" this was crazy though.

"well I pay federal taxes so my house is a federal building"

Wow that could have turned out bad. It sounds like you were smart and professional. Good luck.

Look at getting a concealed permit.



ETA: just read that back of my permit and it doesn't mention anything about a bank unless it is against federal or state law to carry in a bank.

This was in Jackson?

Also, "good-ole boys" or not, an officer of the law does NOT talk to someone like that –– especially someone doing nothing illegal.

_MaH

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Thats part of your problem why would you move to wyoming then live in jackson? ITs pretty there but come on that place sucks bad.

How about this,  I moved to Jackson from west Baltimore. Did I take a good first step?

Yes and i wasnt being rude, i hope you didnt take it that way. You will find that as far as jackson goes, its pretty much a seperate state from the rest of Wyoming. Lots of liberals there. I really hate it there.

You should start OC'ing your AR15,

Screw it!

I'm strongly considering SBS'ing a 500, chopping it down, and rocking it in a thigh holster

Wow that's bull shit!

FDIC does not mean it's a federal building... I would pull my money out and close my account with them, if you have any loans, see if you can have them moved to the new bank (many banks will jump at it).

Good on you for playing the part of a knowledgeable professional!  The problem with Jackson Hole, and the reason that the rest of the state hates Jackson, is that they cannot stand the fact that they are part of our great state, and they pretty much make it into the "Liberal Utopia" that they think it should be.  Jackson needs to be reeled in, and that is a good first step.  This is what happens when Liberals move into a place...they try to change the town into the area that they left, and then progress to the rest of the state.

You did well but unfortunately Jackson has a liberal taste to it.

The first thing you need to remember is that the police officer is there to protect your rights, not take them away.  You had the right to carry your firearm openly.

I am not familiar with Wyoming law but I assume the people at the bank can ask you to leave, or to put your firearm back in your car, based on the fact that it is private property.  The FDIC thing was just a bunch of horse hooey.

Tag for later, and links sent to my friends (cops 1, 2, & 3).

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Well isn't that kinda b.s., whats that supposed to be some kind of intimidation for this guy? Please don't drag this kinda crap here.

Oh please! If your friends 12&3 really acted according to the story, they should stay far away from here. I am embaressed for them

No intimidation intended, just want to make sure the other perspective gets a chance.  I remember hearing the call come out but I was not there.  Remember there are two sides to every story. MD man made this public not me, so lighten up Francis.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

The cops I have met from Jackson are good folks, I would like to here there side of this.

+1

tag for response from 1, 2 & 3

Tag as well.  I had a run in with a WY State Patrolman in Cody and have to say it was one of the best experiences I've ever had with a lawman.  I had recently hit a deer and he assisted me in every way possible.  He even looked up the address and directions to my hotel.

Off Topic: I like the Sheriffs' more then I do city police. I met a Sheriff Lt. at a gun store that bought 100 rounds of .44 Mag from me when he over-heard the store owner was only going to give me 100 rounds of Wolf 7.62x39 in trade. Nice guy, if I remember right he said he is one of the weapons instructors for Laramie County.



City Police are ok, but in my experience the Sheriffs are friendlier. I have never had a negative run-in with either while OC/CC though.

Wyoming allows open carry - that much is certainly true...
But times are changing where I'm not sure that I'd push the issue going into a business like a bank or a pharmacy. I have to sympathize with those folks. They can't assume that any specific person is a law-abiding neighbor anymore.
Twenty years ago, I watched a guy walk into a pharmacy in Gillette wearing a revolver. I reached for the popcorn because I wasn't sure what was going to happen. (The pharmacist was an NRA leg match competitor)
It may still be legal, but that's not the same thing as SMART.

The troopers up here in Cody are great guys.  Can't say the same for the other ones in the county though.

Tag for Cops 1,2,3 reply.  Someones got some splainin to do.

I've had the same sorts of trouble with Cheyenne PD and Laramie County sheriff's deputies, both when I was carrying openly and when I was carrying concealed with a permit.

They will try and intimidate you, and many of the politically appointed chiefs will back them up.  That's the problem in Jackson, I think.  The Chief sets policy and the officers employ that policy.  If the Chief lets them bully citizens, they'll do that.  I've seen it here in Cheyenne since the current chief took office.

but the answer is to know the law and stand your ground.  So what if they don't like you for it, it isn't like they're doing you a favor in the first place, is it?

I'd also like to hear what cops 1,2,  and 3 have to say,  It's always possible they have a reasonable/differing story, but I'll be truthful and admit that what MDguy has reported fits in with my experiences in dealing with Wyoming LEOs, city, county, and state.

We have some pretty good legislators here and they'll back you up.

I have a little audio recorder on my phone.  I always turn it on when I talk to LEOs.

+1, I was just about to say the same thing.

If the police officers and original poster in this thread were smart, they'd not post any more about this here at all, and they'd settle it elsewhere. I'd hate to see a shit slinging contest. From the story, the officers could have handled things better. As much as I'd like to hear their side, I'd rather not see this devolve into an argument.


Keep it civil.

Good idea, PM sent to MDguy90 with a proposal.

My name is Scott Terry.  I am a captain with the Teton County, Wyoming Sheriff’s Office.  The sheriff was made aware of the allegations contained in this thread although a formal complaint was never received.  Nonetheless, the sheriff ordered an internal investigation and that investigation has been completed.  Our investigation concluded that the behavior complained of did in fact occur.  As a result, two of the law enforcement officers present were disciplined.   As this is a personnel matter, Wyoming law prohibits me from discussing it,so this will be my only communication.  I want to assure the readers of this forum that the Teton County Sheriff is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights and will not tolerate deputies departing from that commitment.  As a result of this event, all deputies will receive remedial training on the laws of Wyoming as they relate to the 2nd amendment of the United States Constitution.

www.tetonsheriff.org

Nicely said! Thanks for the post. Much needed closure to this thread.

thank you for your service and thank you for your professional matter in dealing with this situation. Glad to see our rights, have been protected, and that resposibility was taken.

SBT, Thanks for the update
. I know you said this was going to be your only communication on this subject, but don't let that stop you from hanging around here. This is a good forum and very informative on all kinds of firearm related subjects. General discussion can get a little

(crazy) but the technical forums have a wealth of info.



On the remedial training; is this going to be state-wide, or just in Teton County? I have never been hassled for OC out in Cheyenne, but have heard of folks in other parts of the state having negative encounters with LEOs.



Oh and maybe someone with a OCDO account can post SBT's reply in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum58/30301.html

Its good to see that this was handled professionally.

this

+1 to the Teton Sheriff.  Nicely  and honorably handled.  My hat is off to you.

As for OC in Cheyenne, in the twenty years I've lived here, I have been followed home and harassed by Laramie County Sheriff's deputies and told in no uncertain terms that "this is what happens when you carry a gun."  The deputy actually walked into my house, claiming that the door being open constituted invitation.  This was the day after the incident.  He'd apparently been going through my records and found an unpaid ticket I wasn't even aware of, and made a special trip.  His partner, at least had the decency to look embarrassed.

I've had weapons drawn on me, been laid over the hood of a sheriff's cruiser and been disarmed. This was before CCW, and the claim was that I was carrying concealed illegally.  Although the deputy had been able to see the weapon from twenty or so feet away in the dark.  Those same deputies unloaded my weapon before returning it to me and told me not to reload it until they've left.  (my car had broken down and I'd approached them to let them know it was on the side of the road and that I'd be back for it in the morning.)

I've had CPD show up at my house, demanding to know if I had a CCW because I was carrying a pistol in the open.  When I pointed out that, while I did have a CCW, I didn't need one for OC, they told me to put a jacket on so that nobody could see the pistol  It was 90 degrees!  

I've been disarmed twice IN MY OWN STORE by CPD after showing them my CCW, (the claim was that there had been a complaint that somebody was burglarizing the store, though nobody could produce the call).  I was told at that time that "we don't like guns." I was later pulled over by those same officers (I swerved on an icy road while turning onto the viaduct) who then approached my truck with drawn and aimed weapons (didn't that just make any of my customers who knew my vehicle wonder)

I've spoken to the CPD chief, who indicated that, not only would he not discipline his officers, but their treatment of me was how he trained them to act.  Quite a thing to admit to somebody's face, huh?

To set the record straight, I'm a business owner and a vet.  I've passed all of the security checks required by Wyoming law, and have a valid CCW.  My military clearance was high enough that I was allowed to store my weapons (ARNG pistol team member) at home, rather than the armory.  In other words, I'm a citizen.  Unfortunately, I'm a citizen with a very low tolerance for asshattery, and in Cheyenne, that makes for trouble.  

I still carry, both concealed and OC, and seem to have reached something of a truce with CPD at least.  Of course, I don't call them for anything anymore, so aside from worrying about traffic citations, they may as well not exist.  

Haven't had any run-ins with the deputies since the new chief took office several years ago, so I couldn't tell you if they've changed or not.

Damn, I miss Jim Clark!

I would have to give Goshen county sheriff Don Murphy a nod for being easy going  in that respect.  In fact, he is one of the most approachable sheriffs or Chief of police I have ever met.

Stories like this make me think twice about ever taking a job in Wyoming.

I have never heard stories like this in Utah, and my one run in with a LEO in cache county while carrying was handled great, he gave me a ride in the front seat and never disarmed me, the whole thing was handled way better than I could of ever hoped for.

I have been to city counsel meeting to speak with mayors about these kid of things.  Had a friend get a loaded gun put in his face with the cops finger on the trigger because he was open carrying legally.  Utah has come a long way.  Dont fool yourself that things like this dont happen in utah.  It is just more of a rarity these days due to lots of work over the past 4 years informing law enforcement.

Thank you for your response to this matter Capt. Terry.  It gave me a higher respect for your department.

Personally I would have been polite but told them that if it wasn't illegal, to leave me alone and it isn't your business telling me what you think is stupid or appropriate.

Wow, I'm impressed.