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Posted: 3/11/2008 6:21:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Oh, alright. But just until the match.
 How about a link to the event rules (same as last year?) so some of us can strategerize and scheme on which class/category to enter and what gear to use. |
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Posted: 3/11/2008 10:34:46 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm sure there will be a record breaking high temperatures that weekend
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Posted: 3/11/2008 11:18:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Im dancing up and down like a little school girl
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Posted: 3/11/2008 1:04:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Awesome! I knew if I went ahead and planned my last days of vacation, it would make you guys post a date on a different weekend!
I do have a question. last year, we had to show up Thursday night for a orientation brief. Do we have to do that this year? That's an extra night of hotel expense and a day off work for those of us short on vacation time. Or, can we show up early Fri morning for that? And yes, eagerly awaiting rules, CoFs, and round counts. (Although, I'm already planning on Tac Optics this time around, maybe stick with Tac Iron depending on CoFs.) |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 7:49:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Can anyone give me a brief, yet detailed, rundown of the classes/categories that a shooter can enter and what gear is allowed in each?
"Open"? "Limited"? "Heavy Metal"? |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 9:40:01 AM EDT
[#6]
This would be a good place to look around Link
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Posted: 3/12/2008 9:56:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Last year they had: Open - Pretty Much Anything Goes: dot sights, speedloaders on shotguns, extended mags, yadda yadda This is the 'race gun' class. Tons of shooters in this class, including lots of real live Professional Shooters. Tactical Optics - Basic Military optics like Acogs and EOTechs, 'basic' scopes. I think other equipment is 'stock' Lots of shooters in this class. Tactical Iron - Iron Sights only, 'stock' equipment. This would be like Limited Class. There were 20 of us in this class last year. Heavy Metal - .308 Battle Rifle, 8 round .40 cal or larger side arm, and pump action 12 ga, all iron sights only. A very Unique class, there was only 10 or 12 shooters in this one last year. (Lots of good and professional shooters in all classes. In Tac Iron, we had the Vet that cleared the long range rifle stage and several members of the US Army's shooting team. Those guys were friggin amazing. |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 3/12/2008 10:36:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Yikes! Iron sights on the .308 rifle? No scope at all?  Hmm, might have to rethink that route and try for the "Tac optics" class. I wonder if it is/was allowed to swap optics between stages, say from a dot sight to a magnified scope?Oh yes, did they allow bipods? (I give a hearty  every time I hear "no bipods" from the RO on a CMMG rifle course. WTF?)
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Posted: 3/12/2008 10:37:39 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm familiar with running 3-gun matches in the local (KC) USPSA clubs back into the early '90's. However, will CMMG/FFE be running under those rules, or their own proprietary rules? |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 10:41:21 AM EDT
[#11]
As in, your pistol may only hold 10+1 rounds? (Which would save me from "having" to buy more $30 Arredondo +4 mag extension kits for my G21 mags.  )
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Posted: 3/12/2008 10:42:29 AM EDT
[#12]
I GOTTA KNOW!!!
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Posted: 3/12/2008 12:29:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Hey Dude, No you can't swope out anything. In Tactical Optic you would have one optic on your AR, and that would be it. The big dogs had 1-4 or 1-5 high end scopes that cost more than all my gear. The 9mm would be your best choice in this class as well, and a auto loading shotty. The only class that you'd want to use a .308 (7.62x51) would be heavy metal, and the .45 acp in pistol, and a pump shotty in stead. No Bipods in any class was allowed. I think "Open Class" allows vertical grips, and speed loaders for the shottys. They also allow for a higher capacity tube on the shottys. I'm sure that they'll post COFs, and Rules closer to match time. They did last year. You can look at the COF on a computer screen, and think that your getting prepared. Let me tell you one thing, that all goes out the window when you get there. |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 12:51:24 PM EDT
[#14]
A hearty Plus One on this statement. I thought I was ready, and as I have mentioned, I timed out on every rifle stage. And, it wasn't neccessarily because I was missing the targets! I recall seeing some of the open guys using bipods on the open guns...also, there was a guy with a beta mag with a couple inches of foam on the bottom of it, and he used it as a mono-pod. Some of the guys in tac iron used 40 round mags as monopods as well.... |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 12:56:16 PM EDT
[#15]
The mag length rules are in effect. So, no mag extensions, or you'd be in open class. Also, last year, we had to start with unchambered pistols on most stages, so no +1 loadings. But, as a 10 round .45 guy, I can tell you that 1 round doesn't matter when you have to do 3-SIX reloads on the stages!! (I most likely will be using a 9mm this year, and very possibly switching out my pump Moss 500 for my Remington 1100 auto...) |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 1:43:24 PM EDT
[#16]
What kinda stupid, idiotic stuff is it to start with an unloaded pistol? Whose bright idea was that?
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Posted: 3/12/2008 1:45:50 PM EDT
[#17]
I just wondered if I could load my 13rd mags to their full, non-extended capacity or not. A set of written rules to peruse would be great! 
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Posted: 3/12/2008 1:56:18 PM EDT
[#18]
In Heavy Metal, you would have to download to 10 rounds. In any other class, you load up to the mag capacity. |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 1:58:46 PM EDT
[#19]
CMMG's. I think the unloaded pistol thing was for safety. There were no draws from holsters, and you had to safe your guns and leave them in boxes or barrels before moving to the next shoot box. So....We'll see if that changes or not this year. I can't remember now if every pistol stage started unloaded, or just a couple for 'scenero' purposes.... |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 3:36:57 PM EDT
[#20]
That was one of my biggest gripes about last year. I know they were probably just catering to the lowest common denomonator, but I still think it should be more realistic. Just follow USPSA/ IPSC rules, require secure holsters, and DQ those who can operate safely. Although that would require some type of equipment evaluation, but the RO's are more than capable of doing that at the first stage of the day. If you don't have the $$ to get a good belt and an uncle mikes kydex holster, then you probably don't have the $$$ for the entrance fee, or the ammo to run the courses anyway. I will be very dissappointed if we don't get use our holsters for more than just tote'n pistols from stage to stage. Polytech ETA: There may be a "heavy metal optics" class, there's been some at a few matches lately. I believe its that same as heavy metal, but you can have one optic on your rifle. ETA2: There were stages where you started with your pistol loaded, the stage I was on would load everybody up and let them +1 "barney up" |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 4:16:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Heh...we're kind of cluttering up the tacked thread here.
This whole thing reminds me though, I need to start working on my '3-gun transportation system'. (Either a baby stroller or a wagon, haven't quite decided yet. Either way, I need to get one built before the April 5th match!) |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 5:46:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Not perfect, but I picked up a golf bag cart at dicks sporting goods for $20 bucks ! I'll see if I can make it functional, its alot cheaper than a baby jogger or a wagon, of course capacity is less, but cheap usually wins out in my book!Polytech |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 5:47:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Maybe me and ARKC should start our own thread
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Posted: 3/12/2008 6:10:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Maybe.
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Posted: 3/14/2008 5:45:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Attachments of Sponsorship and enrty forms added to first post. More to come when it is known.
Steve |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 10:05:53 AM EDT
[#26]
They are pretty clear that the rules are the same as the DPMS match. So, DPMS Match Rules
Personally, I prefer the MGM Ironman rules and classes, but I will be there anyway. |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 10:46:25 AM EDT
[#27]
6.7 HEAVY METAL CLASS
6.7.3.2 .44 caliber bore or larger for all revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. 6.7.3.3 No more than 8 rounds allowed in any magazine at any time. (Single Stack Rules) ========================== 8 rounds?!? Pretty much screws the G21 guys, huh.
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Posted: 3/18/2008 12:55:19 PM EDT
[#28]
At least they can play. I have been to matches where Heavy Metal means 1911 - period. |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 10:27:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Yeah, we mentioned that in the other thread. Besides, Eric, weren't you the one arguing for making the pistol stages revolver/lower-cap gun friendly?  (I'm just messing with ya. My .45's all hold a minimum of 10 rounds, and ironically, my 1911 is the 'hi-cap' at 13+1...) |
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Posted: 3/19/2008 5:04:15 AM EDT
[#30]
I think that was the point of the class, the old single stack guys didn't want to step into the 21st century Last year they allowed 10 rounds though, cause there was a bunch of XD's
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Posted: 3/19/2008 3:48:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Your joking, right? I shot HM with a single stack and never knew I was shooting against 10 round XDs. I wouldn't of been happy had I known, Not that I'm happy to hear it now. WTF? You are messing around right? |
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Posted: 3/19/2008 5:00:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Well I may be wrong about the round count, its been a while. but I'm 100% sure about there being double-stack guns in HM. There was a New Zealander that shot a socom rifle and an xd. Polytech |
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Posted: 4/1/2008 11:53:31 AM EDT
[#33]
I don't know if you can fit everything in a golf bag cart. Strollers are the way to go, unless you just buy the pre-made kick-ass one from Rugged. Rugged Gear 3-gun cart For DIY, see: www.geocities.com/utahmga/cart.html or www.cherokeegunclub.org/Downloads-index-req-viewsdownload-sid-4.phtml Remember that it is not just convenience - you will perform better (particularly on a hot day) if you have your cooler of Gatorade with you. Also, if it is sandy or windy at all, covering the guns produces an improvement in reliability. |
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Posted: 4/1/2008 12:02:02 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm already ahead of you
got a broken jogger stroller off the curb last week
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Posted: 4/1/2008 1:13:58 PM EDT
[#35]
That Rugged cart is awesome! I just may have to buy one of those. I have a feeling that if I ever do get around to tracking down a stoller at a garage sale or something, it still won't be as nice as that one!
Might just have to order one.... |
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Posted: 4/1/2008 2:18:24 PM EDT
[#36]
the rugger cart is nothing more than a standard jogger with a set of $20 atv gun racks and a few of the pieces removed like the seat padding and the little shade thing. The only thing a garage sale/ craigs list stroller won't have is that little nylon thing at the muzzle of the guns, and maybe the extra pockets. But if you have a shooters bag the pockets don't really matter. Save the money and build your own! After my trip to bass pro and the bike shop today I have a grand total of $30 invested in mine
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Posted: 4/1/2008 2:38:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Yeah, I need to go see what I can find for a cheap stroller. Or, maybe one of the 'garden' wagons at cummins/harbor frieght. I have the restriction of it needs to fit in either the Mustang's trunk, or the back of my Jeep...heh. |
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Posted: 4/1/2008 9:37:04 PM EDT
[#38]
I built my own similar to the one in the 2nd link, but the Rugged Gear ones are nice and, IMO, worth the money. They charge $149 - not $215 like they used to - and you would have $120 in a jogging stroller and ATV mounts and not have as nice a system as Rugged Gear.
If you have a jogging stroller already or find one cheap somewhere, the stroller + clamp mount idea is a good and affordable one. |
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Posted: 4/13/2008 9:35:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Not to interrupt "cart talk" but I have a question about this match, specifically the Shotgun rules. [If this isn't the correct place to address this would someone point me in the right direction]
6.6.1 Shotguns must be of a factory configuration (see Rule 5.3) 5.3 For purposes of this ruling, a "firearm" consists of a specific caliber, receiver, barrel, and stock and sighting system combination. 6.7.2 Shotgun Rules: 6.7.2.1 Only PUMP Shotguns are allowed in the HEAVY METAL CLASS all other requirements for shotgun must comply with Tactical Shotgun Rules, except that reduced recoil slugs are prohibited in Heavy Metal. I have a Mossberg 590 with a sidesaddle and a Hogue [knoxx] stock, and I load my own 2-3/4" [Lee cast] slugs. The slugs will operate both a Benelli S90 and my 1100 but I have never chron'd them and have no idea how they fit into the scheme of factory slugs. These rules seem to indicate that this setup isn't allowed, or am I mis-understanding the intent? |
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Posted: 4/14/2008 12:09:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Well, I use a Moss 500 w/ Knoxx CopStock, and it was allowed last year. I did not shoot Heavy Metal, just tac iron. So, based on that, I think your shotgun is fine, and I think your slug reloads should also be fine, I used handloads in rifle and handgun last year as well. But, I think they might have been a bit loose on the rules last year. Maybe they're going to tighten it up/clarify some stuff this year....we don't really know yet. In fact, we don't really have much 'official' info on this match yet at all.... |
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Posted: 4/14/2008 5:19:39 AM EDT
[#41]
I believe the intent, though far from modern reality, is for the shooters to use the same power slugs as one might use in the line of duty. Hence their arbitrary and unrealistic power factor rule for slugs: Rule 8.5.2 Shotguns cannot use reduced recoil slugs, minimum 500 power factor. Also, how many entrants are actually ever "in the line of duty"? These days though, especially with more and more smaller framed men & women in their ranks, I don't know of too many departments that have not switched to the reduced recoil slugs & buckshot if they are even still fielding shotguns. The reduced recoil buckshot loads pattern better, the slugs actually penetrate more and all with less recoil to the shooter. To that end, I imagine some would frown on your reloaded slugs, especially if you have no idea how fast they're actually going. These days a chronograph is well under $100, so why not buy one? Every reloader should have one. FWIW, Federal advertises their "reduced recoil" slugs as having a muzzle velocity of 1200fps which more than meets the match guidelines for use of slugs having a power factor of 500. A 1oz slug weighs 437.5gns x 1200fps = 525 power factor. And they group like a dream!
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Posted: 4/14/2008 7:37:32 AM EDT
[#42]
The intent is to keep exotic, not available to the public shotguns from being used. I would email the match organizer with your question, but I am sure that your shotgun is OK. Almost all competitors change the recoil pad and the sights on their shotguns. You will need to chrono your slugs and make sure they meet the power factor. Federal reduced recoil slugs out of my 22" browning have no problem. but I am shooting tactical iron anyway. I would think that your slugs would be OK, but it is simple enough to find out. |
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Posted: 4/16/2008 7:16:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Holy Crap! We's gunna be on Teh Tee Vee!!
Link at brian enos' boards: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62151
No pressure!
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Posted: 5/2/2008 10:07:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Are there any slots still open to shoot this match?
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Posted: 5/2/2008 12:13:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Yes . . .
Added schedule to first post. More updates ....... Schedule and Squad lists. Steve |
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Posted: 5/6/2008 2:14:36 PM EDT
[#46]
A couple more registrations headed your way! Black Snowman and I have sent ours in.
Also good to see that registration and such is Friday morning.....very nice, thanks! |
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Posted: 5/11/2008 10:13:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Well, maybe "Have no Idea" is an overly strong description, they aren't puff loads. According to Hogdon load data, I am supposed to be running 1550fps with a 7/8 oz slug, which is around a 590 PF. Even if my 20" bbl is shorter than their test barrel, I should have almost a 20% cushion. I think a wad at 1550fps would probably F up a chrono, and I am not willing to bet $100+ to find out.. Do YOU want to let me shoot over your chrono?On a separate question, DPMS rules state: "7.2.1 Any holster, which will safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement, is allowed." I normally run a Safariland 6004, set up on a thigh rig. I just shot that way down at COPS a couple weeks ago, and I was good to go. I just want to make sure I don't drive 400 miles and end up scrambling around for a different holster at the last minute.  ETA I will be shooting a single stack 1911 not a beretta like in the pic..
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Posted: 5/12/2008 5:46:23 AM EDT
[#48]
That will be fine, if last year was any indication of this year holsters were nothing more than a convenient way of carrying your pistol around. For some reason drawing a loaded gun from a holster doesn't happen at cmmg. Probably something to do with the lowest common denomonator, but to me its part of the game and should be there and those without the propper equipment should aquire it or not participate. An uncle mikes holster is only 15 bucks and its more than enough. Polytech |
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Posted: 5/12/2008 8:15:08 AM EDT
[#49]
Sometimes the range insurance carriers have a lot to say about holstered/loaded weapons also. Are we going to be required to unload and chamber clear all weapons prior to abandoning them also? If so, just one more thing to practice.
Either way, I can't wait to get started. Four coming down from Minnesota, staying at the Silver Bell in Fayette. |
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Posted: 5/12/2008 10:00:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Last year it was on-safe in the designated boxes, then after you were finished shooting you cleared the weapon at the direction of the RO.
I don't understand why an insurace carrier would allow machine gun rentals to any "joe" but not let people holster a pistol in a shooters box, pull it out without moving out of the box and engage targets, especially at a match that's on this level with a large entry fee and rules with equipment requirements. I've been to many uspsa shoots at places on a smaller scale than cmmg who have found carriers that allow holstered hot weapons and even moving while shooting  ....I don't know, just one of my gripes about it I guess, I'd expect someone who drops a few hundred to shoot would be able to handle their weapons properly. Polytech |
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