I stopped in at A Call To Arms in Enfield today on my way home from work and they had one of those Troy pump action AR's. If we can put aside both the Troy and pump action hate for a second - I'd like to share my thoughts.


I'll start with - It was pretty fucking awesome. I'd only read briefly on them because I wanted nothing to do with the idea, but when a shop owner basically demands you finger a gun, you finger it. It is basically a piston driven system that is attached to a pump. The most immediately notable thing is the absence of a buffer tube, buffer and spring. Instead, there is a sexy 3/4" wide foldable/collapsible stock, which is fucking awesome. It accepts standard AR magazines, too, and since its a pump, all the evil features. It felt solid, real solid, not flimsy or that "of a novelty" feel I was expecting. It had an Alpha rail specially slotted to accept the pump action - which was made of the KAC type looking rail covers. It was very comfortable and smooth to hold and pump, it felt almost just like an AR. Thats all the good.

The bad -
-you can still get an AR (preban) in CT for less than this fucking thing. $1199.
-it is made by Troy, which will be a bigger deal to some than others, and maybe not a big deal at all to some. But, meh, worth mentioning. Im VERY curious, now, to see what the follow up is going to be from other manufacturers. (wink, wink, if you're listening, Stag)
-it is a pump action rifle.


It annoys me to no end, not with the shop, but just the fact it cost so much. Its like taking some expensive semi-auto shotgun, cutting it back to a pump action somehow, and still charging the same price as if its capable of the same thing. No thanks. These things, IMO, should be flying out of the factories for ~$600-700, tops.

All in all, though. It is awesome to see the real time results of ingenuity and innovation brought on by the forever fighting success of capitalism. While Im still enraged by the oppression being put on me, it lifted my spirit a bit, to hold this thing and think about that.


Have a great weekend, guys. You can resume your regularly scheduled Troy and pump action hate.

Good write up man.  Snap a pic?

Its a cool idea, and a nice get-a-round.  But thats as far as it goes for me

Imagine if the country banned semi autos.....

The ingenuity and engineering of a NEW BREED of firearms would be astonishing.

Designs would be completely reworked and we could have a whole new type of firearm.....

Lets get to work here in CT........

like maybe a "Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range"

"Hey, just whatcha' see, pal."

 






 

Or a preban, semiauto AR

I had a chance to fondle one a few months ago, and came away with the same general impressions as you did.  However, I had a couple of negatives (besides the price).  First off was the stock was WAY to complicated for my taste, and probably accounted for $300 or more of the price!  Second was, all the edges appeared to be really sharp.  It seemed like everywhere I held it, there was a sharp edge that would probably remove some skin with just a tad of effort. And, I work with my hands as a mechanic, so I don't have girly hands.[:D

Given the limited production numbers of this model, you loose the economy of scale to keep the price down.  Maybe if it used more parts in common with an AR, it would be cheaper?  But that is the point isn't it? To keep it non-AR like to pass legal restrictions.

All I can say is when (not if) the Democrats in Hartford remove the preban exemption, it will certainly be a more viable product.

i bet Dan malloy will say it breaks the spirit of the ban in CT cause it looks like an AR, same when stag came out with the .22 he said it broke "spirit" but i give a big thumbs up to troy for making it for banned states like ours cause its kinda like a big F you to danny boy.

Prepare yourselves to be legislated backwards to sling shots

Cuz that's the plan

Accept no compromise

This is complete bulllshit

It's the Ghey

Well holy shit.  I need to find one and buy it.  I like this idea and if it's solid and has a folding stock it's just what I would like.  A pump in 5.56 is way cool and if it works it's very nice.

I think jojos has been selling them for 1099

NGX had one for $1050.  Looked good, not $1050 good though.

Can I make one into an aidscannon?

Shit.  I need to get to JoJos


I also need a little pumping action too now that I think of it.

That's what she said.

How much money you think that square round table do you think that would cost

Just make sure you leave out of the side door, like djc

If it was chambered in 308 or 300 blk and was $300 less. It would be kinda cool to get one and SBR it.

I agree about the stock. I remember extending it and seeing the internals and just thinking, "Jesus". It probably accounts for a lot of its weight, too.



FWIW, I don't think they will ever remove the pre-ban extension. I think our lawsuit will be shot down in court, and I think it is because the pre-ban exemption. The argument can be made (by the Dems) that the law is not unconstitutional because pre-bans can still be had in CT. It is just more complicated and expensive, they know what they're doing, its sick.

I will own one of these some day down the road, anyways. If for nothing else, to support a good company that makes it, and to say fuck you, CT. The novelty of it would be pretty cool, too, and a collectible "weird" gun 20 years down the road when they never sell or produce a lot.

im buying the ares SCR when the lowers come available. beats the gay pump action, the SCR lookes like a MINI 14 but takes any upper, its a redesigned lower too.

It is likely the SCR will not be CT legal due to the recoil linkage. So you are now back to the previously reccomended gay pumping action  

Pre.Bans.


Thats a bummer, though, I was looking forward to giving one of those (SCR) a try for the same previously mentioned reasons above.

That means all semi auto shotguns are banned too if what your saying is correct. Show me in 13-3 please

Here we go again. Time for another one of my trademark wall of text to explain the stupid unconstitutional law.

Once one gets past the whole AR-15 copies/duplicates language added with PA 13-3, one has to look at the new definitions that were added to PA 13-3, this specifically means the definition for "action of the weapon". The problem with certain workaround AR's that are legal in other ban states like NY is how CT defined the "grip" and "action of the weapon". The quoted relevant sections of the current wording of the law are posted below in italics, certain portions I've emphasized in bold/blue.

First lets start with the feature ban language, take note of the "any grip of the weapon" language specifically how you cannot have any finger on your trigger hand (in addition to the trigger finger) directly below ANY portion of the action of the weapon when firing:

(E) Any semiautomatic firearm regardless of whether such firearm is listed in subparagraphs (A) to (D), inclusive, of this subdivision, and regardless of the date such firearm was produced, that meets the following criteria:
(i) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following:
(I) A folding or telescoping stock;
(II) Any grip of the weapon, including a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing;
(III) A forward pistol grip;
(IV) A flash suppressor; or
(V) A grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
(ii) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the ability to accept more than ten rounds; or
(iii) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than thirty inches; or

Next lets take a look at one of the "definitions" from the AWB section which is below the feature ban section for rifles, pistols, and shotguns in the current version of the law.

(3) “Action of the weapon” means the part of the firearm that loads, fires and ejects a cartridge, which part includes, but is not limited to, the upper and lower receiver, charging handle, forward assist, magazine release and shell deflector;

Note how the state defines action of the weapon. Because of this broad definition if the semiautomatic detachable magazine rifle has the recoil mechanism (like say a buffer spring) that runs down into the stock then technically one's fingers on the trigger hand would be directly below the action of the weapon. We've had past discussion on the semiautomatic detachable magazine ARES SCR rifle and its legality. While it may get past the AR-15 copies/duplicates banned by name language of the new law it runs into the "any grip of the weapon" and the "action of the weapon" language of the current law. The problem with the SCR is it apparently uses this bolt (click to see picture) which has a part that runs down into the stock connected to some type of recoil spring. As such the fingers of your trigger hand would be directly below the action of the weapon. There is also the issue that the SCR appears to use a standard rear AR-15 charging handle which means one's hand is directly below the charging handle when extended to the rear.

The reason why a semiautomatic shotgun is NOT affected is because of the feature ban language (from BOTH the old law as well as the new law ).

New Law:
(vi) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(I) A folding or telescoping stock; and
(II) Any grip of the weapon, including a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing; or
(vii) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(viii) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder; or

Old Law:
(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:
(i) A folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and
(iv) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

Under the new law a semiautomatic shotgun would have to have BOTH features in order to be an assault weapon or it has to have two or more of the features listed from the old law to be an assault weapon. Just having a recoil spring running down into the stock of a semiautomatic shotgun all by itself doesn't make the shotgun an assault weapon, another evil feature is needed.

Of course none of this matters when one has a preban firearm, (which are those manufactured prior to 9/13/94). Or it won't matter if DESPP issues one of their interpretations (which AFAIK they have not done) that indicates the ARES SCR doesn't violate the wording of the law like they've done with banned by name prebans. And one would have to find an FFL willing to transfer it once DESPP made such an interpretation.

Post updated

putt your money into prebans of all sorts - ARs, AKs, 10/22s, and 9mm handguns.

But if they use a RRA pds upper then there would be no issue.  The pds does not use a buffer that goes to the rear. So basically  they need this ares  lower with a RRA pds upper.  Then DONE!  No more gay pumping.

If we could buy the ares lowers then we could build it assuming RRA stil sells uppers to CT.

Seems like a lot of bullshit. Buy a preban lower.

Yep. The problem is first finding an FFL willing to do the transfer then having that FFL (or one out of state) change out the Ares SCR upper with one that supports a bolt that doesn't use a recoil mechanism which goes into the stock. The other way to get around the ban with the Ares SCR (if it gets around the AR-15 copy/duplicate ban by name) is to have the magazine fixed in place and fixed to 10 rounds or less. Of course with the way the stupid unconstitutional law is written going with the fixed magazine presents a problem depending on how its fixed in place. If it can be removed after disassembling the firearm and you have any large capacity magazine for AR's then that LCM technically becomes a "part" to make an assault weapon.

Eventually there will be post 9/13/94 AR-15 type semiautomatic detachable magazine rifles legal to sell in CT, it will only be a matter of time, of engineering/design, and of a manufacturer willing to make them and sell enough of them  at a reasonable price to make a profit.

The real question with the Ares SCR is why spend $800 or more for that when one can buy a preban for a few hundred more? Why buy that pump AR when you can get a preban for either the same cost or not much more? I get the idea that some just want it for what it is, but for the average joe looking for an AR they would be better off going preban since they can have all the evil features and can use any upper they want on it.

Pretty Monica will test fire it for you.

Same concept, totally different design.  Looks more along the lines of a standard pump shotgun or rifle, than the AR15-like Troy product.  I wonder if they are any cheaper?

you want a pump action 556.

Remington 7615.  Only one model banned by name.

 

How about the BMG pump action AR?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=430105351

Well, since BMG ran afoul of the ATF, and is no more, that is probably the only one in existence!  Also, I don't know is they did anything to the lower so it wouldn't accept a semi upper.  If not, you would wind up with an unregistered AW if you possessed any semi uppers!

BMG lol

"Nevah been dun befo'"

I'm sure that command arms VFG stays on when cycling, and the front sight returns to the same zero

Did you say you wanted a numba fo'?

The only cool AIDScannon:

Agree

Is this the pump that got banned in CT?  I see that it was.

But more specifically.... Are the 7600 Remington's any good?  One in 30 06 should be nice if it is a reliable rifle.

But if the 7615 is banned in the new section then are all the 7600 banned because they are copies?  WTF the 7615 is not a semi auto anyways as they state in tht section.  What a shit law.

Only one model of the 7615 was banned.

Not pre-ban 7615's.

Only of you pay magazine tax

No taxation without represntation

No victim, no crime

The model line of the 7615..  Only the tactical version was banned by name.

What if we make a single shot version of it?   Lock the mag in place

But are the 7600 rifles any good at all?  Are they reliable?

They are ok.  They are popular in the handful of states that forbid hunting with a semi auto (PA, OH iirc)

Remington has been hit or miss quality wise for almost 20 years though.  Lots of misses.

I imagine that follow up shots on a 7600 are faster than working a bolt and losing your sight picture, so if driving or shooting at fleeing deer, they would have an advantage.

Lots of good deer guns out there.

Thanks.  What I really want is a simple bolt gun in 30-06 or 308 with irons.  Lots of stuff out there but no irons.

Ruger gun site scout rifle

Marlin has/had a lever gun in. .308 but you had to use a special poly tip ammo.

Sporterized springfield 1903 or similar.   Maybe an ishpore enfield?

The Browning BLR is mag fed and available in 308 or 3006.  Also come in take down form for the campers.

I need to look at the scout ruger again.  The bolt on the ones I handled would stick a lot.  

I do think a 1917 or 1903 would be nice if I can get one at a good price.

Or a 303 no4 mk2 if I can get a good deal.

The isapore enfield is interesting but has a 12 round mag.  Isn't that not allowed anymore?

Correct!  However, if you can find one, Gun Parts makes after market 10 rounders. Of course, they have their own policy of  shipping magazines of ANY size only to FFLs in CT.
Also, you can always have it sent to an FFL who can pin the mag to take two less rounds.  Thanks again Democrats!

I have a full sized rifle, but would love one of those "Jungle Carbine" conversions that are floating around.  Too bad they are copies of No IIIs, so they don't have the nice rear peep sight of the IV, V.