Okay guys, here it is!  Weaponcraft has put together a special 2-day course deal for us New England ARFcommers  and personally, I’m pretty damn excited!  


COURSES:     Intermediate Handgun  &  Urban Rifle/Carbine 01
DATES:     Saturday, July 12th & Sunday, July 13th
DURATION:     8 hours per day
LOCATION:     Falmouth Rod & Gun Club - Falmouth, Maine
PRICE:     $300 per person


WHAT DO YOU NEED TO DO TO SECURE A SPOT IN THIS TRAINING?
1. Go HERE and download the application.  Complete it with adding “New England AR15.COM Offer” in the “How did you hear about us” section.
2. Mail the completed application & tuition check to Weaponcraft.
3. Post an “I’m in!” message to this thread.
4. Tell more people about this!


We need to get as many guys as possible (10+) to sign on to this by June 28th in order to hold the course & make it happen.  Their course prices are going up on July 1st, so this is a $70 break on what these courses should cost which certainly helps out in paying for the travel expenses.  Try pricing out a 2-day course elsewhere - this is an awesome opportunity and within reasonable driving distance!

Falmouth is about 3½-4 hours from most of Connecticut, closer for guys in Rhode Island and Massachusetts.  As far as places to stay, there are a bunch of options just a few miles away from the training location and if we get a big enough group, we can probably work out a group rate.  If you’re looking for something more creative (translation – somewhere that your wife will be happy about if you want to bring her up) the Kennebunkport/Ogunquit area is only about 40 minutes south as well.  I’m sure some of the Maine guys can chime in here too with suggestions if you’re interested.

Weaponcraft can also order cases of ammunition for us if we want.  Scott has mentioned that they can try to work a deal for us, but the exact price is going to depend on if/when the order is placed… we all know that pricing is changing constantly at this point.  They've also got firearms to rent if you don't have your own handgun or rifle or just want to try something different.

Finally, Weaponcraft is running a Basic Handgun course the same day that the Intermediate Handgun course is scheduled.  (It will be run at the same time, just at a separate, nearby range.)  This course satisfies the Maine requirement for a concealed handgun permit.  If you are interested in taking the Basic course instead of the Intermediate, they are happy to have you!  This would also reduce the total price by $25.


Here are the course descriptions, click on the titles for the details:

HG01: Basic Handgun
Weaponcraft's Basic Handgun Course (HG01) is designed to develop a solid base of necessary fundamental skills that can be successfully employed in life-threatening defensive scenarios. Strong emphasis is placed on handgun safety, basic marksmanship, and "stress shooting" techniques. Topics include: grip, stance, sight alignment, trigger press, reload techniques, draw stroke and malfunction clearing techniques. This course meets the requirements for the Maine Concealed Firearms Permit. State Application Packets for permits are provided at the course. HG01 is also recommended to serve as refresher training to maintain basic proficiency with the handgun. It is ideal for the private citizen and may serve certain security professionals and military personnel who are required to re-qualify on a pistol range on a limited basis.

HG02: Defensive Pistol 1 (Intermediate Handgun)
Weaponcraft's Defensive Pistol series builds upon the skills acquired from the Basic Course and progressively applies them to stress shooting drills and life-threatening defensive scenarios. Defensive Pistol 1 (HG02) adds more realism and increases degree of difficulty to further refine skill development. Topics include: multiple shooting positions, barricade shooting, extreme close quarters techniques (Center Axis Relock, Weapon Retention, Gun Punch, SUL, etc), engaging multiple targets, and shooting while on the move. Extensive emphasis is placed on shooting accuracy, technique and increased speed. Reactive steel targets are utilized for instant feedback. Students are subjected to a moderate level of stress while being tasked to conduct numerous "stress shooting" exercises. HG02 is recommended as refresher training to maintain a proficiency level above the fundamental levels.


UR01: Urban Rifle/Carbine 01
UR01 is designed for new carbine owners and anyone who has never formally trained with their rifle. This course covers the zeroing of the rifle, sights and optics selection, sling selection, and the development of marksmanship skills. Our basic course instructs the student on firing from cover, reloading, shooting on the move, clearing malfunctions, and the art of the transition to and from handgun. Close quarters battle techniques and stress course drills wrap up the day. Our instructors are SRT/ SWAT operators who use these very skills on a daily basis. If you have a semi-automatic rifle or pistol caliber carbine and want to learn to use it as it was intended, this course is for you.


Weaponcraft - Who We Are
Weaponcraft was started in 1993 when Peter Joyce saw the need for Maine civilians and Law Enforcement personnel to learn the firearms skills they needed to survive and prevail in life threatening situations. Weaponcraft was purchased in early 2007 by Preparedness Experts, LLC, a Maine company that promotes disaster preparedness and provides contingencies to Maine schools, families and businesses.

Weaponcraft is staffed with current SRT/ SWAT operators and instructors. The techniques and tactics we teach are not watered-down for our civilian courses. Rather, they are the most up-to-date available and are presently taught to law enforcement and military units worldwide. Our instructors train not only civilians, but also military, private overseas contractors and law enforcement agencies. Our instructors are professional operators that train constantly with state, regional, national and international agencies and organizations to bring cutting-edge techniques to our law enforcement and private citizen clients. Our philosophy is simple: offer world class training and instruction at a reasonable cost.

i'll put my plug in here.

i've taken a class with these guys and it was *great*. everyone had an awesome time, and we all learned a great deal.

i'll be going back for a class in june, and another in july.

i recommend these guys to anyone looking into training.

Do I need a non-res permit for this?  And what kind of gear are people planning on bringing for the carbine course?  I'm guessing I'll need to get a mag carrier if I decide to go.

Quoted: Do I need a non-res permit for this?  And what kind of gear are people planning on bringing for the carbine course?  I'm guessing I'll need to get a mag carrier if I decide to go.

You're good to go!  As far as travel to & from Maine, you're covered by FOPA as long as the handgun is cased, unloaded and in your trunk.  Once you're there, use of the handgun on private property (the range facility) is no problem.

When it comes to gear, click on the links for each of the classes and there's a gear list if you scroll down.  I've never taken a carbine/rifle course either, so I've been trying to figure out what kind of mag carrier I should get too!  Let me know what route you decide to go.  Here's the carbine class gear list...


Equipment Required for this Course
Carbine
3 magazines
Mag pouch
500 rounds for carbine
Handgun
50 rounds for handgun
Holster (no shoulder or cross draw holsters)
Eye protection
Ear protection
Sturdy belt
Lunch
Water bottle

Equipment recommended for this Course
Loose fitting clothing
Baseball Cap
Gloves


My big hangup points are whether to bring an M4gery or my SW5 and what kind of mag carrier to get.  Aside from the basic gear list, I'm definitely planning on bringing a magazine loader.

I'm not sure if I should take the basic course or the intermediate for pistol.  Besides the NRA safety course, I have never taken any more pistol training.

Can you just take one of the two classes (i.e. I want to take the rifle class but not the pistol class)?

If this is really your first course beyond NRA (I hope yours was better than the one I took), then I would take the basic class.  It is far more than the NRA 50 round, hope you hit it, course. Don't get me wrong, the NRA course is great, but it doesn't teach you to shoot well. It just teaches you that the bullets come out the pointy end and that you shouldn't shoot yourself, but they are heavy on the politics and gun rights.
Our basic class is very heavy on the fundamentals of shooting. I can guarantee that after taking it you will get more first round hits,  faster. Basic course is still 350 rounds, and we spend most of that working on fundamentals and diagnosing bad habits. First couple of hours is class room stuff.  Effects of stress in shooting scenarios, grip, stance, trigger press, draw, and such. Then it's to the range for some practical application.

Hope that helps.

Scott B.

Weaponcraft

Gear...
Well, I can tell you that you are gonna want to bring everyting you have.  No joke.
Got a couple of guns, bring them both.  'Wanna shoot one drill with the MP5 and the other with the PS90, no problem. Same for the handgun classes. As long as you are not holding the class up while you are swapping out guns and mags and holsters, then it's no problem.  You can come as heavy as you would like to... but you might have to let me play with it too.
Thougts on gear:

Chest rigs: Check
Tac Vest: you bet.
Thigh rigs: good choice. For both mags and holster.
A GOOD holster: paramount. Never cheap-out on this one piece of gear.
Pistol Mag pouches: check
Belt rifle mag puches: check.
Camel back: Check.
spare parts: check. Cause you know that you are gonna need them.  We all love our AR's, but you know as well as I do that they are down just as much as they are up.  
Cleaning kit: big yup on that too. Pack a fresh can of lube. After 500 rounds, it will start to get nasty.

We will have a trailer there that is stocked with gear.  Sights, rails, stocks, slings, parts, Blackhawk gear, you name it.  And we'll have at least one, if not a couple of armorers there too if things get to ugly.

And if there is something specific that you are looking for, give us a call or drop us a line and we can see if we can get it for the class. Looking for that new EoTech?  How about a tac vest? Need some new mags for that boomstick? Got you covered.

Speaking of mags:
Bring AT LEAST 3 pistol mags and AT LEAST 3 rifle mags.  The more the better. For you 1911 shooters, you are going to want to bring as many as you have.  Some of our drills in the Basic class have you shooting well over 100 rounds in one string.  Def Pistol classes might have stress courses that will run 35+ rounds each. As the saying goes: "Bullets in a gun fight are just like gum in grade school, if you don't bring enough for everyone, you are gonna find yourself in trouble."

Might want to look for some of those Hollywood Mags.. you know, the kind that never run out...

If you guys have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.  You can send me an IM or just post 'em here and i'll do my best.

Scott B

Weaponcraft.

Quoted: If this is really your first course beyond NRA (I hope yours was better than the one I took), then I would take the basic class.  It is far more than the NRA 50 round, hope you hit it, course. Don't get me wrong, the NRA course is great, but it doesn't teach you to shoot well. It just teaches you that the bullets come out the pointy end and that you shouldn't shoot yourself, but they are heavy on the politics and gun rights. Our basic class is very heavy on the fundamentals of shooting. I can guarantee that after taking it you will get more first round hits,  faster. Basic course is still 350 rounds, and we spend most of that working on fundamentals and diagnosing bad habits. First couple of hours is class room stuff.  Effects of stress in shooting scenarios, grip, stance, trigger press, draw, and such. Then it's to the range for some practical application. Hope that helps. Scott B. Weaponcraft

Scott, thanks for the additional insight into the Basic Pistol course.  I was trying to figure out for myself which one I'd like to take and as you said, the NRA course ("First Steps") is a little too basic.  Despite having a CHP in Pennsylvania and Virginia for over 10 years, a few months ago I was forced to take the NRA First Steps course to satisfy the Connecticut permit requirements and it was just downright insulting...

Quoted: Gear... Well, I can tell you that you are gonna want to bring everyting you have.  No joke. Got a couple of guns, bring them both.  'Wanna shoot one drill with the MP5 and the other with the PS90, no problem. Same for the handgun classes. As long as you are not holding the class up while you are swapping out guns and mags and holsters, then it's no problem.  You can come as heavy as you would like to... but you might have to let me play with it too. Thougts on gear: Chest rigs: Check Tac Vest: you bet. Thigh rigs: good choice. For both mags and holster. A GOOD holster: paramount. Never cheap-out on this one piece of gear. Pistol Mag pouches: check Belt rifle mag puches: check. Camel back: Check. spare parts: check. Cause you know that you are gonna need them.  We all love our AR's, but you know as well as I do that they are down just as much as they are up.   Cleaning kit: big yup on that too. Pack a fresh can of lube. After 500 rounds, it will start to get nasty. We will have a trailer there that is stocked with gear.  Sights, rails, stocks, slings, parts, Blackhawk gear, you name it.  And we'll have at least one, if not a couple of armorers there too if things get to ugly. And if there is something specific that you are looking for, give us a call or drop us a line and we can see if we can get it for the class. Looking for that new EoTech?  How about a tac vest? Need some new mags for that boomstick? Got you covered. Speaking of mags: Bring AT LEAST 3 pistol mags and AT LEAST 3 rifle mags.  The more the better. For you 1911 shooters, you are going to want to bring as many as you have.  Some of our drills in the Basic class have you shooting well over 100 rounds in one string.  Def Pistol classes might have stress courses that will run 35+ rounds each. As the saying goes: "Bullets in a gun fight are just like gum in grade school, if you don't bring enough for everyone, you are gonna find yourself in trouble." Might want to look for some of those Hollywood Mags.. you know, the kind that never run out... If you guys have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.  You can send me an IM or just post 'em here and i'll do my best. Scott B Weaponcraft.

Do you have any recommendations for gear, ie Brand and model.  The only gear I have is a few holsters.  I have a Blackhawk Serpa that I would be using for this type of situation unless there is a better choice.  But what kind of chest rig and leg rigs?  I was looking at Eagle, HSGI, etc but theres so many choices and I don't know what pouches and pockets I need and where they go.  Is a dump pouch recommended for empties?

Questions on gear:
Gear for the basic and defensive pistol classes should include a good and sturdy holster.  Anything but a shoulder rig will work. Blackhawk, Uncle Mikes (the LE ones) Galco, Milt Sparks, Mich Rosen, just to name a few.  I use a blackhawk SERPA myself, but that's just my preference.  Some use Kydex or Bladetech polymer-type holsters which work fine for this type of class. Some use leather, but any will work just fine. If you carry, or intend to carry concealed,  bring the one you would wear normally. Best to train with what you are going to use.

Mag holders should follow as well.  At least a good double mag holder and if you can work-in an additional single mag holder, that would work well for you.  1911 shooters can chime-in with what works best when you can only carry 8 rounds/ mag. If I was going to run a 1911 or other single-stack gun for the course, I would get a couple of kydex double mag holders.  I think they are less than $20 at any gun shop. I know of two big stores that you will pass on your way up here that will have them in stock. For all us others ( double stack guys) I would get at least 1 double and possibly another single mag holder.
O, and bring a GOOD belt. The wider, the better.
Most of us have gun belts specific for holsters.  I like a last-resort type with a velcro end. Others have the heavy-duty leather gun belts with the plastic insert to keep it sturdy around the holster.

For the carbine course:
Holsters:
Well, as i've said, I'm a fan of  blackhawk. Always have been (i think it's a navy thing.. and no jokes please). All the LE SRT/ SWAT guys use safariland holsters for their duty rigs. (Glock and light combo set-ups) There are a couple of us who use nylon drop legs. That's what we will carry in the class. Nothing says that you need a different one for the carbine class as you would use for the handgun course.

Rifle stuff:
Most of us use blackhawk drop-leg rigs of sorts for our ar mags.  Works well when moving and in any position (standing, kneeling, prone).  Kydex and others make a good plastic belt holder (single ar mag) that seems to work well for them.
We have a couple of blackhawk rigs that hold 2 ar mags and 2 pistol mags. Those seem pretty decent, but to be honest, i haven't used them.
In the last carbine class, we had a couple of guys using Vietnam era AR mag pouches compete with the "Y" harness.  Haven't seen that stuff in a long time, but it worked for them.

We have had some guys using rhodesian (sp?) type chest rigs. We have had some contractors going across the pond that had some pretty sweet set-ups. London Bridge, HSGI, some Eagle stuff.   Blackhawk and Eagle are making some nice tac vests. I personally, don't like the ones with holsters sewn in, and for this class, we frown on it. Muzzle dicilpine is impossible to maintain on a cross draw or shoulder rig. But for carrying mags and gear, these are great.  Throw it on and you are ready to go.

Dump pouches:
Ok to CARRY spent mags in, but i really don't want anyone doing mag changes INTO the bag.  If you are in a place where you need to save them in order to reload from your ruck, then yes.  But to do fast mag changes on a range, i would stay away from getting one just for that. It's good for a tactical reload, so you are not putting a mag with a unkown # of rounds back into your gear, but not necessary.

Slings:
Probably one of the most important things in the rifle class.  Most of the day you will be using this thing.  Single-point and two point ones will serve you best.  AR's come with a carry strap, not a sling.  So consider that GI issue one obsolete and invest in a good one.

I don't suggest going out and spending a lot of money on this stuff just for one class.

Chances are, you are going to see some guys with really great stuff. But the guy with the new ACOG and the SureFire suppressor might be doing mag changes out of his back pocket.  You never know what you'll see.

I don't know if this helps you or not, but I hope it gets you thinking about what you have and how it will work for you.

Scott B

Weaponcraft

TAG is running 50% off all there stuff today only!!  I saw it in the gear section.  www.theoperatorschoice.com/specials.html
Just in time to get some gear before this course.

Quoted: Slings: Probably one of the most important things in the rifle class.  Most of the day you will be using this thing.  Single-point and two point ones will serve you best.  AR's come with a carry strap, not a sling.  So consider that GI issue one obsolete and invest in a good one.

+1

I'll give my big thumbs up to the Vickers Combat Applications Sling.  At $55, it's a little expensive, but if you've got a carbine it's the last sling you'll ever buy.  Also, if you buy the quick attachment points, you can quickly swap it between firearms depending on which one you're using that day.

www.blueforcegear.com/product.cfm?type=cat&cat_id=3&prod_id=79

As far as spare parts go, what do you see break the most on AR15s during the carbine course?

Also what kind of optics would you recommend running?  I have ACOG with Troy flips ups currently.  Would I be better off running my irons up with no ACOG or running an Aimpoint/EOtech?

boonie9533, what range are you going to have the students at the UR101 class BZO their weapons for, and whats the max range we are going shoot too?

Thanks

There was a question as to being able to take just the Carbine class- YES, you can. That's not a problem at all. Cost for just the rifle course is $175.

Quoted: whats the max range we are going shoot too?

I'm interested in knowing the answer to this question too.  This'll help determine which rifle I'll bring.

Heck,
Bring them both. That second one won't take up much room. And you can run drills with either throughout the day.

This course is based on a CQB lesson plan. BZO is 25 yds. for this class. This class is all about the fundamentals of moving and shooting. As the saying goes: "If you aren't moving, you aren't fighting" Our UR-02 class stretches the ranges a bit, but those are still all within 50yds. We will give everyone enough time to get "tuned" prior to running drills.

Elec. sights are good to go for this. I wouldn't use anything telescopic. If you run a 3X+ scope (beyond the aimpoint or EOtech magnifiers) , I would suggest going with irons or just the elec. sight for this. I ran a few drills during the last class with the new ACOG 4X and even magnified, that worked well for this type of shooting. Meaing really well-placed head shots.

If you are in doubt, bring everything you got.  Nothing says that you can't swap out your sights during the day. Run the irons, run the ACOG. Or run the irons with the eotech off and see if they co-witness Or... if they really work as well as you think they will.  If you shoot an electronic sight, you better bring some spare batteries.  Because batteries fail a a rate proportional to your need for them.

Scott B

Weaponcraft

Is there any minimum age for this course? I am 19, but do have a handgun. Also, if you are on private property, can you carry concealed without a Maine CCW permit? Maine doesn't have reciprocity with NH as far as carry permits go. What are the hours for the courses? About what time would the course get done on Sunday?

I would really like to do this course, and if I can, I just have to double check to see if I can be gone for the weekend.


Thanks.

Minimum age is 14 if taking class WITH parent.
Answer to question on concealed carry on private property is a big NO, unless you own it. And if you are talking about that in regards to our class, then the answer is: you don't need a concealed carry permit to take this class.

Classes are from 9-5 both days.

Please see the FAQ's page or the course descriptions on the web site for any additional questions that you may have.

Weaponcraft FAQ's

Scott B.

Weaponcraft

A quick reminder note to all of those planning on attending who might be bringing NFA firearms such as SBRs;  Make sure to remember to fill out your BATFE Form 5320.20 soon.  Word around the campfire is that they're taking a bit longer to turn them around.  Maine allows all of the NFA items by the way.  The physical address of the club is...

358 Gray Rd
Falmouth, ME 04105
(Cumberland County)

I'm in, plus I'll be bringing one other person.

height=8

Quoted: Can you just take one of the two classes (i.e. I want to take the rifle class but not the pistol class)?

Yes, no problem. Prices for single course (this offering only) are $150 Urban Rifle, $125 Basic Handgun,$150 Defensive Pistol 1. These courses are filling up with folks not from ARF, so don't dally or you'll miss out.

Any chance of rifle 2??

Quoted: As far as spare parts go, what do you see break the most on AR15s during the carbine course? Also what kind of optics would you recommend running?  I have ACOG with Troy flips ups currently.  Would I be better off running my irons up with no ACOG or running an Aimpoint/EOtech?

Since a lot of you probably haven't done any formal coursework yet and have some questions, allow me to answer this question and some others about the class you might have...

for UR01 i ran "commando" type setup because that is my "beater" weapon, it handles quick, points well, and i use it all the time so i know it works. it is a SBR bushmaster with A1 upper, 11.5" barrel, CAR collapsible, and CQB Solutions 3-point sling.

a couple notes about this setup:

1) if you have rifle with an A1 upper you plan on using, switch out the A1 rear sight for a standard 0-50 A2 sight. the A2 sight has the 0-250 aperture (large hole) and the 250+ aperture (small hole). the A1 only has two small holes, but at different planes. shooting quickly, while moving, is difficult when your only choices are small hole #1 and small hole #2. i have since removed the A1 rear site aperture from all my A1 guns and replaced them with A2 apertures.

2) the CAR stock has no angle to it. the buttplate is just straight. this is NOT how your shoulder is shaped. after and entire day of constant shooting, that little "toe" are digging into your shoulder or bouncing off the end of your collar-bone gets, annoying. i haven't bought anything CAR stocked since then. that tiny added angle on the VLTOR or M4 stock makes a difference.

i brought along a backup gun, an SBR LMT 10.5" with CQB single-point sling, though i never needed it. i also brought my giant-toolbox-o-parts in case someone else broke something.

everyone ran some sort of AR15 (couple RRA's, couple bushmasters, a stag, and i don't remember what else...). despite the fact that we shot constantly for 8-9 hours, and that is was so dusty and dirty at times that EVERYTHING was covered in fine dusty sand, and that it even rained for a few minutes, there wasn't a single gun that "broke". i had a malfunction on my first shot of the day . it was a brand-new mag i had accidentally grabbed and loaded up with the ones i took, and it failed to feed. i didn't have any problems after that. another guy was running a lefty stag that had feed problems all morning. late morning he switched from the HK "high reliability" mags he was using, to standard USGI 30 rounders, and he didn't have a single malfunction for the rest of the day.

most of the guys ran either A2 uppers or A3 uppers with A3 handle/sights. if i remember correctly, besides the instructors, there were only 2 guys with aimpoints.

bring a water bottle and lots of water or gatorade or something. you'll need it.

they suggest a few mags. i'll suggest bringing 10 or 12 already loaded, more if you have them. it's nice to not have to reload every few minutes.

bring a small squirt bottle of decent lube, and toss a couple drops in you gun when you get a chance. you may not NEED it, but it only takes a second.

wear good, durable, clothes and footwear. you'll need it.

i'll suggest a shirt with a collar if possible. by the end of the day my sling had rubbed the back and side of my neck raw.

DO NOT bring anything that is brand new and untested. you want to spend as much time as possible shooting and learning to shoot, rather then learning that you don't like your holster as much as you thought you would, or that your super-zoomie new awesome mags don't work.

Quoted: most of the guys ran either A2 uppers or A3 uppers with A3 handle/sights. if i remember correctly, besides the instructors, there were only 2 guys with aimpoints.

Good post.  This (above) is the most surprising thing that you said.  Seriously, optics weren't all over the place?  I was picturing optics of every shape, size and type were going to be the norm.

Bully,
WHat did you guys do for drills in UR1?
I have taken a bunch of rifle classes and dont want to drive 4 hours for BASIC class. If it is a good refresher I might think about it..

Thanks


Oh by the way I own page 2..

Quoted: Quoted: most of the guys ran either A2 uppers or A3 uppers with A3 handle/sights. if i remember correctly, besides the instructors, there were only 2 guys with aimpoints. Good post.  This (above) is the most surprising thing that you said.  Seriously, optics weren't all over the place?  I was picturing optics of every shape, size and type were going to be the norm.

nope, i expected the same.

i have a tricked out whiz-bang 10.5" gun that i thought about bringing, but to be perfectly honest i didn't feel "slow" or at any sort of disadvantage all day, my tiny apertures aside.

optics/sight wise i would suggest the same thing i suggested with everything else. bring good quality gear that you know works and that you are comfortable using.

Quoted: Bully, WHat did you guys do for drills in UR1? I have taken a bunch of rifle classes and dont want to drive 4 hours for BASIC class. If it is a good refresher I might think about it.. Thanks

sorry skeeter, i meant to post back but i wasn't able to get back to my computer as quickly as i had hoped.

either scott or uel may be better people to answer this question, as the "curriculum" may have changed since i took it.

as for what our class did, it started on very basic stuff, to shooting from cover and different shooting positions, to malfunction drills in the morning. afternoon was all kinds of shoot-n-scoot, with and without malfunctions, sometimes with several people moving and engaging at once, etc.

anyhow, it starts off pretty basic, but quickly covers a lot of ground. i suspect there isn't anyone who couldn't at the very least use this course as a "good refresher".

Gents,
for those of you who are taking the Carbine 1 course, don't forget that the following weekend is Carbine 2.
Just a point on the optics. From all the carbine classes that we have had, people have used everything from A1 sights on 30 year old AR's, to C-mores, to Aimpoints, EOtechs, Trijicons of just about every flavor; to people shooting back-up style flip-ups. And if anyone wants to try an EOtech out, you will be more than welcome to use mine for some drills. We have several models of EOtechs in stock that will be available at the range if you get the itch.  


Scott B.

Anyone from ARF.com who wants to sign up for UR02 can do so before 7/1 for $155 OR through the end of the day on the 13th for $165 ($30 savings). iF YOU WANT 5.56/.223 AMMO FOR EITHER CLASS, YOU NEED TO REQUEST IT SOON. WE ARE ALMOST SOLD OUT AND NEED TO GET MORE, QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH? tHE MORE WE KNOW (SOONER) THE CHEAPER IT BECOMES... NOT ASKING FOR $ JUST NUMBERS...

Uel
Weaponcraft, LLC

Weaponcraft...

I've been shooting pistol for 10 years, have done quite a bit of IDPA, taken classes @ S&W and Sig Academy, etc.  While I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I'm probably not a beginner either.  Would you say that the Intermediate pistol class would be a better option than the basic?

Centermass0,
Though I think that there is a lot to be learned in our basic class, even by experienced shooters, It would probably best suit you to take our Def. Pistol 1 course.
Our basic course is not just a 'don't point the pointy-end of the gun at yourself' type of class.  It is a great exercise in the mechanics of shooting and can help a well qualified person diagnose problems and correct bad shooting habits on the range.  There is a considerable amount of 1-on-1 with the instructors during the day to help with that.

If you are an IDPA shooter, the Def. Pistol 1 class will be a great class for you.  Please don't think that this class is practice for a competition.  This class is all about personal defense and the material is taught in that manor.  (A barricade is NOT a pistol rest and you never come out in the same position twice.) However, I can almost say for certain that you will pick up some things in the class that WILL increase your first-round hits and make you more competitive on the range. Plus, you might pick up skills that just may save your life. It is all about moving and shooting.

I hope that answers your questions and gets you fired up to get out to the range.


Scott B

Weaponcraft

CenterMass0, I agree with Scott, based on your skill sets you should probably take the Defensive Pistol 1 course.  I'm planning on taking the Basic course based on what Scott has told me about it and the feedback I've received from others.

I've had some one-on-one handgun training, the NRA First Steps course and a handgun retention course... but handgun shooting is still my weak point and I think the Basic course is the best route for me.

Quick heads up for anyone still shopping for gear for this course, I noticed that Botach Tactical has clearanced a whole bunch of Blackwater gear and the pricing looks really good.  Take a look.

www.botachtactical.com/blackwater.html

I noticed a handgun is part of the required equipment for the Carbine course. What type of drills are done with the handgun during the carbine course?

Andrew1985:
Transitions from rifle to handgun and the reverse. We all love our AR's but they do have a tendency to go down, or even run out of ammo from time to time.  Transitioning from them to a handgun during a malfunction or engagement is not something you want to wait and 'figure out' when it happening. In one form or another, we run several drills on this all day long.

Scott B.

Weaponcraft

I'm in.  Application and check to follow.

Boonie: Is day 1 either handgun basic or intermediate and then day two is carbine 01?

How many guys here are thinking of coming back the following week for Carbine 02?

Quoted: Boonie: Is day 1 either handgun basic or intermediate and then day two is carbine 01? How many guys here are thinking of coming back the following week for Carbine 02?

On your first question, exactly right.  Basic + Carbine 01... or... Intermediate + Carbine 01.

I'd LOVE to come back and do Carbine 02 the 2nd weekend, but unfortunately I've got a prior engagement to attend.  I was hoping to take Carbine 02 in the fall or winter if that course is offered.

It would be great if Carbine 2 was offered on the same weekend as Defensive Hangun 1... keeping it going....

Any clues to the price for ammo if we purchase through Weaponcraft? I usually get my 500 rnd XM193 from Ammoman for $239. Just curious how much we might be able to save.

I'm definitely in for the Carbine course. I just have to decide if I can make it up for the Basic Handgun course on Sat.

What kind of gear are you guys bringing? I've got a tac vest that holds six mags, and a hydration pack I think will be helpful. Any clues how much spare ammo we should count on carrying at one time? I've got a pack I like to fill up with stripper clips of ammo and carry around. I like carrying what's necessary, but but then there's no sense in carrying around all that weight all day if our ammo and gear are within reach.

Are we on our own for meals during the course?

Anyone interested in carpooling?

Quoted: Any clues to the price for ammo if we purchase through Weaponcraft? I usually get my 500 rnd XM193 from Ammoman for $239. Just curious how much we might be able to save. I'm definitely in for the Carbine course. I just have to decide if I can make it up for the Basic Handgun course on Sat. What kind of gear are you guys bringing? I've got a tac vest that holds six mags, and a hydration pack I think will be helpful. Any clues how much spare ammo we should count on carrying at one time? I've got a pack I like to fill up with stripper clips of ammo and carry around. I like carrying what's necessary, but but then there's no sense in carrying around all that weight all day if our ammo and gear are within reach. Are we on our own for meals during the course? Anyone interested in carpooling?

Check out ammo to go. Ive ordered from them several times and they are good to go in my book. Their price on brown box XM193 is $207 for 500 plus shipping.

For gear and stuff im going to run a chest rig with 2 single and 2 double AR mag pouches, a camlebak and then a dump pouch. I will also have a single mag pouch for my sidearm and the necessary holster.

Im pretty sure we are on our own for meals, but please correct me if I am wrong.

See you there
PJ

Gents,
I'm checking on the ammo pricing right now.  I will let you know what we can do if we put the order in now.
About meals.  You guys are going to be on your own for that.  Last year we started offering lunch.  But as it turns out, we had more comments in our critiques about the lunch than we did about the training, so we stopped it.  There were more " I didn't want tomatoes" or "I asked for Mayo" in the comments.  And seeing that we are a training company and not a catering service, we stopped the whole lunch thing. Plus, it took up more of our time to get the lunches than it did to set up the range in the morning.
But, there are 2 good sandwich shops/ general stores within a couple of miles of the range.  We will have a cooler of drinks, so you guys can either stop and get your lunch in the morning or just run out when we break.
And we might be able to have someone go for lunch if you guys want to set that up in the morning.  

Scott B.

Weaponcraft

Quoted: Gents, I'm checking on the ammo pricing right now.  I will let you know what we can do if we put the order in now. About meals.  You guys are going to be on your own for that.  Last year we started offering lunch.  But as it turns out, we had more comments in our critiques about the lunch than we did about the training, so we stopped it.  There were more " I didn't want tomatoes" or "I asked for Mayo" in the comments.  And seeing that we are a training company and not a catering service, we stopped the whole lunch thing. Plus, it took up more of our time to get the lunches than it did to set up the range in the morning. But, there are 2 good sandwich shops/ general stores within a couple of miles of the range.  We will have a cooler of drinks, so you guys can either stop and get your lunch in the morning or just run out when we break. And we might be able to have someone go for lunch if you guys want to set that up in the morning.   Scott B. Weaponcraft

Scott:

I'm in for the Basic Handgun and Urban rifle.  Is that still $300 or was it less for the Basic Handgun?

Also,I noticed on your webpage that you are doing a Utah Permit course.  It also stated that this permit is accepted in a bunch of states.  If I, as a CT resident, were to get hat permit as a non-res of Utah would it still have recipricoity in a bunch of states?



CT guys: is anyone planning on driving up Friday night?  I hate to book a room for 2 nights but there's no way I can wake up at 4 or 5 drive 3.5+ hours and then do an 8 hour course.  JKust wondering what peoples plans are.

I'm out.. The buddy I was taking the class with had to back out, so I'm going to wait to take a class later on with him.

I think I might only be able to do the Sunday course. If so, I will probably drive up Sat night. I can't imagine trying to make it through an eight hour course if I get up at 4am either.

Guy's, do what you need to do, but you will have no problem staying awake for the courses offered.  Its a lot of fun and really gets the blood pumping.  It will be a long day for you, but believe me, you will not be bored.  I have taken two classes so far with Uel and Co. and they are good people.  Can't wait for HG03 and the carbine class!!

Jon

CTbuilder1:
Pricing was $300 for Defensive Pistol 1 and Urban Rifle 1 class; or $275 for Basic Handgun and Urban Rifle 1.
That is correct.  The Utah non-resident permit is recognized in several states. It doesn't matter what state you currently reside in. Uel is heading out there this weekend in order to get that set up for us to teach and we are looking to make it part of our course curriculum soon.

Scott B

Weaponcraft

Quoted: CT guys: is anyone planning on driving up Friday night?  I hate to book a room for 2 nights but there's no way I can wake up at 4 or 5 drive 3.5+ hours and then do an 8 hour course.  JKust wondering what peoples plans are.

Sorry for the late response, just got back a few hours ago from a week-long vacation on the left coast.  I have to take a few showers today after being around that many dirty, stinky hippies.

I'm planning on driving up on Friday night and staying in a local hotel.  I priced a few out and they all are pretty reasonable as long as you don't want one right in one of the tourist areas.  I have a buddy who's planning on taking the course with me, so we'll be splitting a room.

Who is definatly going and is anyone willing to have someone ride along if they pay gas??

Thanks