Hey Everyone,

I'm the new State Coordinator for the Appleseed Program, in Virginia. The same as on here, we have a section just for VA. It's here Appleseed in Virginia and I invite you to come take a look around.

I see lots of mention of the Appleseed Program and numerous guys and gals in the VA section have mentioned either experience or interest in the program. Whether you've been to an Appleseed or not I invite you to check out our website and look around. You're obviously interested in learning to shoot better or you wouldn't be on AR15.com. But, learning to shoot is only part of what Appleseed is about. We also strive to teach about our heritage and our Forefathers, here in the United States. We specifically teach about the events that led up to the beginning of the American Revolution and how our Forefathers looked at their God Given Rights and their personal responsibilities as Citizens of this great country.

Another big component of Appleseed is our desire to get EVERYONE out to shoot. If you don't have a rifle, we'll get one for you. If you've never shot a gun, we'll teach you. (I know, not applicable here but I bet you know someone who hasn't) We strive to be extremely family friendly and invite you to bring your whole family out. We have had young men and women shoot Appleseeds as young as 9 or 10, and shoot Rifleman scores!! As an added bonus, Women, Children & Young Adults under 21, Military (active, guard & reserve) and ANY elected official ALL SHOOT FOR FREE!!!

We currently have Appleseeds scheduled at 4 different ranges in VA, with one Appleseed every month from May through December. We're probably going to add more to the list for summer and fall. We are currently shooting at ranges in Hanover, Louisa & Buckingham Counties as well as the City of VA Beach. Take a look at the link above for dates.

We are looking for ranges or landowners in the Western and Northern parts of the State to set up Appleseeds at. If you know of a range or someone with land where they can shoot 25 meters, who would be interested in hosting an Appleseed please ask them to contact me here or at [email protected] We know there are a LOT of AR15.com members in Northern VA and we want to get a range closer to you so you can come. We are trying to get into the Fredericksburg area but don't have anything approved yet.

The only negative question I've heard about Appleseed is "why do you only shoot at 25Meters?". Well, there are several answers. First, we walk down to look at our targets after most every string so we can make adjustments and give instruction. If you're shooting at 100 to 400 yards with 50 people that would take a long time. At 25 meters it moves along pretty quickly. Our targets are "scaled down" so that even at 25M it's simulating shooting out to 400 yards and believe me it's harder than you think to hit that simulated 400 yard target at 25M! Then, there are a LOT of ranges where we can get access that are only 25M. Then there's the point that we not only allow, but encourage people to shoot 22LR. This is for economy as well as a lot of people only own a 22lr rifle. Again, we want EVERYONE to attend an Appleseed. BUT, if you're dead set that you just HAVE to shoot at full distances the range that we use in Buckingham County is a full length range. Right now the Appleseed scheduled for that range (September 12 & 13th, it might not be on the web site yet, we just set the date) is only promised to be 25M but I'm pretty sure we're going to allow the better shooters to shoot at full distances on Sunday afternoon.

Sorry I got so long winded, there's just a lot of good stuff to say about The Appleseed Program. I hope you will take a look at our website and then sign up for an Appleseed shoot. I give you my personal promise that if you come, you will have fun.

If you have any questions please drop me a note on here or on the Appleseed Forum page in the link above. Oh yea, I go by "FiremanEd" on that site.

Thanks again & I hope to meet you soon.

FirefighterEd
Eddie Wood
Appleseed Program
Virginia State Coordinator

I hope you guys get one scheduled for the western part of the state. I saw where you are looking for places to set one up. I am excited to come to one of these, I just got my 10/22 set up for it, I just need one close enough for me to get to.

I just sent an email to a guy trying to track down a range in the Roanoke area. I'm trying!

We'll have one in Buckingham County in September, that's the farthest one West we have access to right now but we're working hard to get out farther to the Roanoke/Lynchburg area as well as the Northern part of the Valley.

If you know any ranges that may be interested in hosting one please send me a message with their contact information.

Thanks,

FirefighterEd

I will definitely let you know if I hear anything. I am in the North Western part of the state so if I hear anything it would be in the Harrisonburg area.

I'm really interested in this for me and my 10 year old son.  I'd like to sign us up for the one in Mechanicsville in May.  Still room?

ETA: Anyone have pictures of a rifle setup for this?

Sure is room.

Info link    http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=6139.0

register link   http://www.eventbrite.com/event/305540881%20

My 10/22 has had a set of Tech Sights installed (so the sight picture looks like my M1A or AR15) and 1&1/4" sling swivels added so I can use a GI web sling.  You'll be learning sling supported standing/sitting and prone firing positions so you'll need a sling.

regular sights can be hard to use.  If your rifle has a scope on it that's okay, too.  Using a .22 really helps you save money on ammo costs.

Thanks for the info.  I have a 'target' 10/22 (scope and no sling mounts), a Marlin  39A (tube fed, no sling mounts and garbage sights), a Walther G-22 (red-dot, no sling mounts), and two GSG-5s (red-dot or garbage irons).  Not sure if I can swing another .22 just for this purpose.  It's interesting that an event founded on the 1775 rifleman would require a mag-loading rifle.  Otherwise, the Marlin 880SS bolt rifle I just won on GB would be just the ticket.

I've been told the AQT type training/qualification has existed since the US Army was using 03 Springfields and M1917 Enfields.  So bolt action rifles were used for years.  

I've seen several people bring bolt action .22's to Appleseeds and shoot rifleman scores, it's just tougher to work that bolt and re-establish your position between shots, but it can be done.

I don't know what time period the sling was established as an aid to supporting the rifle but it definately helps.

This is turning out to be a very expensive event...  

Tech sights for my son's 10/22...check
New Marlin 795 for ME to shoot.....check
Tech sights for my new Marlin.....check
5 extra mags for the 10/22.....check
5 extra mags for the Marlin....in-progress
Event fee.......check
Hotel.......in-progress

A buddy of mine is also registered and I'm working on one more.  Now off to see what else I need from the "what to bring" thread on the appleseed site.

Looking forward to this alot!

I would be very interested in the Va Beach Appleseed. I will have to check out the site.
Chris

I signed up for the Mechanicsville shoot today.  I've got some work ahead of me to get the heavy-barrel 10/22 light enough and install some iron sights, but there's still time.

Walt

There's no need to lighten your heavy barrel 10-22. It sounds like you may already have a scope on it? If so feel free to shoot it like it is. We recommend iron sights, as a learning thing. It's like learning to drive a 5-speed, after that an automatic is easy. If you're have a scoped 10-22 you're set. If you have a 10-22 with stock sights then it may be a good idea to add some Tech-Sights. They REALLY improve your sight picture.

I prefer for a new Appleseeder to bring your rifle, as is. Don't feel like you have to build or modify your rifle to look exactly like what some people think is the perfect rifle. YOUR rifle, is a good rifle for you.

Look foward to meeting you at the shoot.

FirefighterEd

KC,

Don't feel like you have to spend too much just for an Appleseed. If your son has a 10-22, then some Tech-Sights would be a great addition. You only really need 2 mags for each rifle to shoot an Appleseed. A couple extra is convenient but not needed. I took 10 mags with me to my first and all I've ever used on the line at an Appleseed is 3. The 3rd is only as a spare in case I had a problem.

If you want to  hold off on buying a rifle until you try it, we'll have plenty of loaners there that you can borrow for the weekend if you want. I will say that you're looking in the right direction with the Marlin 795. I'm going to start buying Marlins in place of the 10-22's out of a personal support of a company which is MUCH more gun owner friendly than ruger is. The 795 is a great little rifle.

Look forward to meeting you on the range. Let me know if you have any other questions.

FirefighterEd
RWVA, Appleseed Project,
Virginia State Coordinator

You can't own too many guns!  The Marlin is already on the way (and $159 for any gun with a micro-groove barrel is a steal), as are the Tech Sights for both it and the 10/22.  I got the Ruger mags for a song.

I'm ex-Army and qualified Expert with an M-16 and I want to rebuild those skills.  I don't mind spending a few bucks to do it.  I also really believe in the Appleseed message, which is one of the reasons I'm bringing my son out.

Thanks for the input.

The beauty of the 10/22 is that there are so many options for it.  I do have a scope on it now, but, as kcobean can validate, it's a bit large for the job and swapping it out for tech sights isn't that much of a task.  The iron sights should add a bit more challenge to the shoot and get me back to the basics.

deleted

Basics, that's what Appleseed is all about. Learning and improving on the "basics"

See you at Black Creek.

Eddie

I can never argue the highlighted sentence.

Looking forward to meeting you and your son.

Eddie

Hi Ed,
    I need to order a set of swivel studs and QD swivels for the 10/22.  Before I do, I was wondering what sling you recommend.  I've seen leather M1/M14 slings, nylon slings, and Turner leather slings....just wondering which one you think works best on a 10/22 or Marlin 795.   Thanks.

Let me add my 2 cents.

The USGI cotton or nylon 1.25" wide sling is the easiest one to learn to use.  Don't get the "M16" sling as it doesn't have the quick/solid adjustment features of the older M1 Garrand or M14 web sling.  I got my 1.25" sling swivels for my 10/22 at WalMart (Uncle Mike's brand).  You can get the studs there, too.  The sling would have to be ordered from some surplus dealer.  I got some new ones from DPMS a few months back.  Those worked great for 10/22's and the A4 type AR15 rifles but were a little short for the larger M1 and M1A type rifles.

I'll be shooting my M4 style AR with a .22 kit if it works ok.  I just orderd the CMMG and some extra mags.  See you at Mechanicsville.

Some work better "wet" with oil and some seem to work better "dry" (little to no oil).

Be sure to break yours in prior to the Appleseed if you can.

Try to get at least one extra magazine, if not two.  Many of the stages require a reload (that's two mags) and it's not a bad a idea to have a spare in case you have problems with one.

See you there.

I plan to put a couple hundred rounds through it before hand and zero the rifle.

I don't expect excellent accuracy, but really don't know what people are getting.

Depends on the rifle and the ammo - any the shooter.

My little CAR and Rem. Golden Bullets shoots tiny groups at 25 meters when I do my part.  I've had 3 shots the size of my little finger nail and ten shots the size of a dime.  Darn, I need to shoot that thing more but since I got the S&W in 5.45X39 it seems to be about the only thing I shoot these days.

Be sure to try 3 or 4 brands of .22 bullets to see what is reliable and accurate in yours.

kcobean,

M1A4Me pretty much answered your questions. Cotton GI sling is our recommended sling for learning, they're both the easiest to learn on, easiest to adjust and the cheapest. That's hard to beat.

Be sure to 1 1/4" swivels as all military grade slings are 1 1/4" wide. If you get or have a 10-22 you have to add swivel studs. If you get a Marlin795 they come with studs already in place. Personally when I add a swivel stud to the front of a 10-22 I remove the barrel band and toss it in file 13. By doing this you remove or at least greatly reduce the chance of sling pressure affecting your zero.

Touchdown,

I have 2 of the CMMG adapters and they're really good. Some guns like them, some don't. I've found accuracy to be as good or better than most shooters and dependability to vary. For best dependability I've found 40 grain or heavier bullets work best, sloppy wet w/ break free, be sure to remove it on Sat night of the Appleseed and clean the rifle chamber. One instructor last week loaned it to a shooter at an Appleseed and didn't clean it sat night. It functioned great all weekend but he had to drive it out of the rifle chamber with a brass rod Monday when he cleaned it. He now say's "clean every 200 or less, period!"

The biggest suggestions being, heavy bullets, WET & 300+ rounds break end before your Appleseed.

When it comes to 22lr ammo, remember you get what you pay for. I loaned two 10-22's out last weekend in PA. One guy shot federal value packs and one shot CCI stingers. The rifle w/ the value pack ammo took 1/2 can of break cleaner and 10 minutes to clean. The one that shot CCI's, took exactly 4 seconds. That's how long it took me to open the bolt, look in it and say, "d*** those CCI's sure shoot clean" as I dropped the bolt and put it in the safe.

I hope to see you all at Mechanicsville!

Eddie

I would like to commit, but babysitting means I cannot until close to the event.

I would like to go the one at Cavalier, but the other one I could do also.

What is the cancellation policy?

Tweaker,

I'm waiting on an official answer for you. I'll get back asap.

FirefighterEd

Looks like some of us will be at an "Appleseed" table at the Richmond Gunshow at the Show Place next weekend.

Stop by and talk to us.

See you there.

Is  an expat Brit welcome?

I'll be moving over in the next couple of months.

it'll be while before I have another .22 (BATF will not let me bring mine over 308 ok .22 no way, go figure!!!) but as soon as I jump through the hoops and replace my guns I'd love to join in if you'll have me.

Nick

We'd love to have you and you'll be more than welcome. We had a Brit as well as an Aussie at two shoots I was at last summer. The Aussie made Rifleman.

As to the rifles, if you get here and have time but haven't gotten your rifles yet, we can probably fix you up with a 22 for the weekend. Most of the Instructors bring their personal 22's for loaners for the weekend, most of us bring multiples.

What part of VA are you gonna be in ?

Hope to see you when you get here.


FirefighterEd

At the moment it looks like we will be around the Manassas area subject to house hunting I look forward to shooting with you folks soon (well as soon as we get over).

Nick

Look forward to meeting you, good luck with the move.

FirefighterEd

Can anyone tell me what time the Appleseed shoot starts on Saturday?

Thanks, - Brian

Nevermind- I found it on the Appleseed web page - "All Shoots start at 8:30 AM unless otherwise noted"

Appleseed was a good time, except for the sunburn.  

Yep.  A good time is being had by all.  I'm suffering a bit of brass burn along with the sunburn, but it's worth the information you pick up.  And hey, to use the phrase from Old Painless, shootin stuff is fun.  Can't beat that.

ETA....The WalMart here had .22 bulk paks.  That's pretty much been unobtainium in NoVA.

Hello Ed,
   Just wanted to say thanks for your time, as well as all instructors time this weekend.  It is very appreciated and was very informative.
    I had a good time and will be back for the next one.  ...Paul  

Here are 2 targets to look at.  The very first of the day with no sight adjustments and the very last.  I had high hopes after the first target, but things went down hill from there.  My point of aim was all over.  I don't even know what groups belong to which target on the AQT.  Any ideas what happened?  change in NPOA

Gun was DPMS AP4 iron sights with CMMG conversion kit and leather 1907 style sling.

My excuses:

I got hot and tired through the day
I tightend uup the sling tension through the day and affected POI
The barrel got really dirty
I can't shoot.

On a couple practice AQT's (not pictured) I missed the target completely in the sitting.

FIRST TARGET OF THE DAY



LAST TARGET OF THE DAY

The knowledge 'soak time' and a good night's sleep made such a huge difference when coming back to shoot on Sunday.  Thanks to all the instructors for their time and teaching.

Here's my best from Sunday....Rifleman!!!

The prone stages (rapid and slow) are NPOA.  Your groups in relation to the targets moved with each target.  If you eye is not in exactly the same spot every time you squeeze the trigger the rounds will impact in a different place.  Failure to find your NPOA as you transition from target to target show up like that.  "Muscling" the rifle to the target may give you the impression you're lined up and ready to go, but the bullet impact will be off vs. where you thought the sights were.

I don't know where your sitting stage rounds went.  Did you sight in on a different target (one side or the other)?  That happens sometimes - you "lose" your target during the transition from standing to sitting if you take your eyes off of it (can also happen at a reload - if you take your eyes off the target, or fail to double check to insure you are on your target before you fire).

Also, by the time we get to AQTs on day one a lot of folks are tired and the combination of heat, humidity, your muscles wanting rest, etc. results in a performance drop of Saturday afternoon.  You get it all back on Sunday when you come back after a good night's sleep, a couple of meals, and some time for some of what you heard and did to sink in.

Don't give up.  Only about 10% of the folks who attend an Appleseed shoot a rifleman's score.  It's not as easy as many folks would have you think, even if it is only 25 meters.  The position changes, the time limits, the multiple targets per stage and the magazine changes all work against you if you haven't practiced prior to the Appleseed.

waltg, PaulieVA, owlless & kcobean,

Thank you each for the nice comments. We're glad you took the effort to come out and shoot. We hope it was an eye opening experience, from both historical and marksmanship perspectives.

As M1A4Me said above, only about 10% of shooters shoot a Riflemans score at any one Appleseed shoot, (14 % did this past weekend, Congratulations kcobean and the other Rifleman!! )  if you come back your scores will go up even more than they did from Saturday to Sunday. Like M1A said, it's a LOT harder than most people think. If you would relay that to anyone you know who's sitting on the fence of coming to an Appleseed I would appreciate it.

Again, thanks for coming out and spending a wonderful weekend with us. I truly hope you feel it was worthwhile and money/time well spent. If so, please tell all of your friends about your experience and encourage them to come join us.

Thanks,

FirefighterEd
Eddie Wood
Virginia State Coordinator
Project Appleseed
[email protected]

kcobean what rifle setup did you use? Just curious.

snowman357

My rifle setup was VERY basic.  A box-stock Marlin 795 ($150), a set of tech sights ($69), and a GI sling (about $15)

The Tech-sights are priceless because they provide a fully adjustable military style aperture/post sight.  Trying to shoot Appleseed with the stock Marlin or 10/22 sights would be difficult, IMO.  They also sell tech sights for the 10/22, with an adapter for bull barrels if needed.  My son shot our 10/22 with a Tactical Solutions barrel and tech-sights.  

You absolutely need to have a good *GI* sling.  In my opinion, you're seriously handicapping yourself if you don't have one.  I made the mistake of showing up without one, but Ed was gracious enough to loan me his personal sling.

The most important thing is to get out and shoot!  If you don't have a rifle, they have loaners!  If you have lousy eyesight and need to use a scope, that's fine too.  

I can't say enough about this event.  It was soooo worth the few dollars.  Hope you decide to go!

Ed, Is a shooting coat a good/suggested idea? Any leads on a beginners coat? Google turned up a cloth Creedmore for $75 and Canvas for $125. I do have a Midway shooting mat.

You might want to bring a towel to put down on your shooting mat.  I have the same mat and the black areas where your knees/elbows go get HOT sitting out in the sun.  I mean painfully hot..smokin' hot....like cook an egg hot.  Did I mention they get hot?  

I'm not Ed. I don't even play Ed on TV,  but I know Ed. There are a number of shooting coats out there. Champions choice has a couple or you can order one from Fred (Fred's M14 stocks) as well. But, you do not need a coat for the Appleseed. The one thing that anyone really needs to bring to an Appleseed is a teachable attitude. If you bring that, you will leave the weekend a better shooter, if not a rifleman.

some type of shooting mat is a good idea.  A piece of rug will work if its big enough to pad your knees and elbows, lay your rifle on, etc.  Some type of elbow protection is also a good idea.  I use a $10 set from Dick's Sporting Goods.  Eye and ear protection as well.  A towel for wiping the sweat out of your eyes might be a good idea, too.

If you're shooting a black rifle or rifle with a black stock it'll get pretty hot lying in the sun, just like kycobean said, so a towel to cover it will make it more comfortable with you snuggle up to it to shoot.

This time of the year plenty of water or other fluids to drink and sun block would be a good idea, too.

JMDavis & M1A4Me both covered it well, thanks guys.

No need for a jacket, anything you have to put on the ground as a "pad" will work, light towel to keep rifle cool and wipe sweat are all good suggestions.

What you do need are
 1. Open Mind (As JMDavis pointed out so well)
 2. Rifle
        a. with sling studs front and back
        b. military style sling, if you have one. If not most instructors will have some there for sale.
        c. 500 rounds ammo
        d. 2 magazines if it's a mag fed rifle (which is recommended), 3 mags will give you a "backup" but you can get by with 2.
        e. good sights or scope ( Tech-Sights are great additions for 10-22's & Marlin 795's) aperture sights are much easier to shoot well than "buck-horn" style sights.
 3. Open mind
 4. WATER WATER WATER, food. Bring your lunch if you can, sometimes there isn't time for leaving the range for lunch.
 5. Anything to lay on, old blanket, piece of carpet etc. There's no need to spend the $ on an official "shooting mat" they're nice but their no better for Appleseed than a 5x8 piece of carpet

If you bring these items you'll have a great time and learn a lot.

As a side note, I'd recommend you shoot a 22lr if you have a magazine fed one. You can learn just as much if not more with a 22 as a centerfire and the $ prove to be well worth while. You can buy a Marlin 795 or Ruger 10-22 for roughly $160, add Tech-Sights for $60, 2 spare mags for $50 and 500 rnds off ammo for $15. That's $285. At todays prices if you buy the cheapest 223 ammo I can find it's $450/K, so the 400 rounds you're likely to shoot at an average Appleseed will cost you $180. So, for an extra $105 you get a 22 rifle, with excellent aperture sights and 2 spare magazines. At your second Appleseed, or two afternoon practice sessions you've "paid" for your new rifle in savings on ammo alone. And you have a new rifle!!  What can be bad about that? Now, if you normally shoot a 308.... you pay for the new rifle in one Appleseed!!

Look forward to seeing you all at VA Beach in a couple weeks!

Ed

Edited to add,     Also bring a folding chair to set in.

Thanks GunNut

I "heard" there was an event in August for VA Beach, any word?  I will be on travel next weekend (11-12 July), but I will be there in November.
I have an AR-15 carbine and a Ciener 22 conversion kit (1 ten round mag and several thirty round mags).  I also have a Marlin model 60.  Will either of these work?

Thanks
R/
Mike
VA Beach

Mike,

Sorry you won't be able to be there this coming weekend. I hope your travels are safe and enjoyable.

No, there isn't a shoot in VA Beach in August, but we will be back in November as you stated.

Of the two rifles you have, I'd recommend the AR with either the conversion or 223 ammo. If your conversion runs then by all means shoot that!  The Marlin 60 is a great 22lr rifle but it's being tube fed does not lend it well to Appleseed. You really need a magazine fed rifle to get the most out of the weekend. You can shoot the tube feds, we just strongly recommend mag fed if you have that option.

If you like the Marlin 60 you may want to look into a Marlin 795. It's the same rifle with a 10 round mag instead of the tube and it comes with sling studs, last shot bolt hold back and easily removed magazines, all of which are perfect for Appleseed.

I look forward to meeting you in November, have a safe summer.

FireFighterEd