ALERT Roanoke Times reporter creates VA CCW searchable database.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ALERT Roanoke Times reporter creates VA CCW searchable database. (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 3/11/2007 12:40:57 PM EDT

I just pulled this off THR. WOW does this piss you off or what.

Shedding light on concealed handguns

By Christian Trejbal
Christian Trejbal

Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in which we reflect on the importance of open government and public records. To mark the occasion, I want to take you on an excursion into freedom of information land. We're going to find out who in the New River Valley has a concealed handgun permit.

I can hear the shocked indignation of gun-toters already: It's nobody's business but mine if I want to pack heat.

Au contraire. Because the government handles the permitting, it is everyone's business.

There are good reasons the records are open to public scrutiny. People might like to know if their neighbors carry. Parents might like to know if a member of the car pool has a pistol in the glove box. Employers might like to know if employees are bringing weapons to the office.

And all Virginians have a stake in checking that their government is not making mistakes, for example, by issuing permits to convicted felons. Open records allow the media or any private citizen to check.

This is not about being for or against guns. There are plenty of reasons people choose to carry weapons: fear of a violent ex-lover, concern about criminals or worry that the king of England might try to get into your house. There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too.

But that's a debate for another time.

To illustrate the open government process, I set out to acquire permit lists for the New River Valley.

I first called the local circuit court clerks charged with overseeing permitting. They were helpful, as far as they could be.
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Only Radford and Floyd County said they could produce a list. Giles County maintains an unofficial list but could not produce an official one. Montgomery and Pulaski counties had squat. The best they could do is determine if a specific individual had a permit.

None of that conflicts with the law. The records must be available but not necessarily in the format citizens want.

Fortunately, one of the clerks tipped me off to another avenue. The state police, she thought, maintained a master list.

I called Richmond and found out that yes, they did have a statewide list. Bingo!

Then another lesson of open government hit. A copy would cost more than $100.

Any Virginian can show up at a government office and request a public document. If it is something simple such as a council agenda, officials usually gladly duplicate it, maybe charging a few cents for the photocopy.

If it is something more complicated, government agencies may charge for the time and effort to prepare the records. In the case of concealed handgun permits, state police need to weed through them to cut out some personal data, which takes staff time.

A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.

I bit the bullet and placed my order, saving the paper a few bucks by taking a Jan. 18 list officials had recently prepared for someone else.

The compact disc arrived last week. Names, addresses, issue and expiration dates.

About 2 percent of Virginians, 135,789 of us, have concealed handgun permits. In the New River Valley, 3,826 people have them, a slightly higher rate than in the rest of the state.

I immediately started checking some names. Virginia Tech football coach Frank Beamer, no permit. Pulaski County Supervisor Dean Pratt, packing. Radford University President Penelope Kyle, no permit. Giles County Supervisor Paul "Chappy" Baker, packing.

Some of the names proved tricky. Dana Dwayne Munsey of Pembroke has a permit. Is that Mayor Munsey? Standoffish town officials wouldn't provide a middle name or address for confirmation, and the listed phone number is disconnected.

The list sports a dismayingly large number of typos for an official registry -- four different spellings of "Christiansburg," for example.

Local celebrities generally don't carry, but at least a half dozen elected officials do. I'll leave it to readers to figure out which ones so you can avoid annoying them at meetings.

As a Sunshine Week gift, The Roanoke Times has placed the entire database, mistakes and all, online at www.roanoke.com/gunpermits. You can search to find out if neighbors, carpool partners, elected officials or anyone else has permission to carry a gun.

Open government laws arose from distrust of government. They guarantee citizens can watch what government does in their names, including issuing gun permits.

Trejbal is an editorial writer for The Roanoke Times based in the New River Valley bureau in Christiansburg.

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160

and the list is at:

http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/

Sure enough, I tried it, and found everyone I know with a CCW. This includes a number of Federal agents that I am friends with, I'm sure they will be delighted to know that their info is up for everyone to read.

I was under the impression that this was private information, like the stuff an LEO can view but anyone else is off limits.

Ide like to find this reporter an post his address and pics of his kids going to school, and his wife, and his license plates. Maybe he'll understand then.

Mike

Posted: 3/11/2007 1:11:07 PM EDT

[#1]

Only part of the code that limits disclosure is

height=8

The clerk of court may withhold from public disclosure the social security number contained in a permit application in response to a request to inspect or copy any such permit application, except that such social security number shall not be withheld from any law-enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties.

I like the "may" part. How about a "shall" next year?

Posted: 3/11/2007 1:23:07 PM EDT

[#2]

Now what about a letter to the editor listing all the names and address of the newspapers employees?

You think that would be printed under a "free press"?

Posted: 3/11/2007 1:26:37 PM EDT

[#3]

Putting the Author's name into Zaba resulted inthis

Putting that address in Google maps places the address here
You can also put that address into the City of Roahokes GIS website here, lots of details on the house including floorlans and picswebsite
Note, ALL of this information was publically accessed through a few websites in about 15 minutes. I have no idea if it is accurate or up to date, it is just a bunch of links. Feel free to remove it if inappropriate.

Reworded

Posted: 3/11/2007 1:41:19 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Zaba had this
The only one in Virginia.
Google maps places the address here
According to the City of Roanoke's GIS website it is a rental, two story, brick, with white trim and black shutters. From the floor plan that the City of Roanoke has on their GIS website, the main bedroom is on the second floor, near the front. The City has a very nice color picture of the house from the street. You can find all of this by utilizing the City's public GIS site, just look for the street address.

Note, ALL of this information was publically accessed through a few websites in about 15 minutes. I have no idea if it is correct. Feel free to remove it if inappropriate.

Wow

Posted: 3/11/2007 1:42:04 PM EDT

[#5]

My response:

The Roanoke Times is known for being anti-gun for quite some time now. They refuse to publish ads for gun stores that advertise handguns, and they routinely spit out anti-gun lazy logic BS. This article seems to exist only to frustrate some of the good people here in Virginia.

In case you don't know, Christian.. this IS anti-gun of you. Singling out any community and writing sarcastically about their beliefs shows a lack of respect for their views. It definitely puts you on one side of the fence, and certainly not on the same side as the people who have replied here.

Let's see if they post it, since it apparently has to be approved first.

Posted: 3/11/2007 2:22:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 3/11/2007 2:28:06 PM EDT

[#7]

I'm starting to get the impression they don't support the 1st amendment either, since they still haven't posted my comments.

Posted: 3/11/2007 3:37:08 PM EDT

[#8]

I'm reminded of something my mother use to tell me, "Just because you can't doesn't mean you should." I wonder what Christian Trejbal will print next? Why not a list of daycare centers? With address and a map link to the most remote ones. I'm sure there are any number of maggots that would like to have that list. How about a list of those getting 'meals on wheels' or other elderly assistance? That would appeal to a whole difference set of scum.

I'm on a list I don't want criminals to know about. But the thing is criminals don't go writing letters to the government getting these lists, and now thanks to the Roanoke Times they don't have to!

So is the Roanoke Times willing to now accept the liability they have here? What if someone on the list is robbed to get his or her weapon? What about poor Frank Beamer? That guy is way to wealthy not to be packing. Will the Times now be responsible if he is a victim of crime? Frank buddy, we need to get you on that list!

The Roanoke Times just made the best case I have ever heard against gun registration or licensing.

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:01:39 PM EDT

[#9]

Wonderful. What a jackass.

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:14:41 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
The Roanoke Times just made the best case I have ever heard against gun registration or licensing.

Can't argue with that.

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:25:53 PM EDT

[#11]

I am not in the list but my buddy is. Anyone send this ass clown a nasty gram yet?

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:28:29 PM EDT

[#12]

There's a discussion board for this topic here:

blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/columns/comment_on_trejbals_column_12.html

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:30:10 PM EDT

[#13]

Wife and I are BOTH on there.

With the sheer amount of stolen handguns that are taken from private residences, this asshole just made ALL of us that much less safe.

What's next, requiring all Jews to wear Stars of David?

Oh wait, they tried that once too.

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:43:05 PM EDT

[#14]

yeah, i am on there too...what a knuckledragging retard....

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:45:28 PM EDT

[#15]

Another good reason to use a non-resident permit from another state that has reciprocity w/ where you live. Still no excuse for the article.

Posted: 3/11/2007 4:55:18 PM EDT

[#16]

Wow, guys. Sick 'em

I'm filled with a great sense of pride to be associated with you all.

Posted: 3/11/2007 5:08:20 PM EDT

[#17]

This isn't the first time that this prick from the Pacific NW has made an ass of himself.

Posted: 3/11/2007 5:12:13 PM EDT

[#18]

Hey, folks, there's a POLL on that newspaper link... let's slam them hard.

Posted: 3/11/2007 5:28:23 PM EDT

[#19]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Apparently the page is getting slammed. I can't load it.

Posted: 3/11/2007 5:53:36 PM EDT

[#20]

Uh-oh, and now the VCDL made an announcement about it. Where's that popcorn animation?

Posted: 3/11/2007 5:58:44 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Apparently the page is getting slammed. I can't load it.

Well, it looks like its loading alright now. Here is a direct link to the poll if anyone needs it:

www.roanoke.com/polls/pollsPage2.aspx?qId=291&totnum=1

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:09:03 PM EDT

[#22]

I just got a call dispatched to me about this. The woman I spoke to stated her and her husbands address are listed and what can I do about it. I stated its public record and cant do much about it.

She stated that VCDL listed it on the webpage. I stated I'm a VCDL member as well. She was happy about that

.

I also told her I have a CHL and wanted to check the list to see if I'm on it. It seems the page is now down.

Anywhere I can access the list???

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:12:18 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I just got a call dispatched to me about this. The woman I spoke to stated her and her husbands address are listed and what can I do about it. I stated its public record and cant do much about it.

She stated that VCDL listed it on the webpage. I stated I'm a VCDL member as well. She was happy about that

.

I also told her I have a CHL and wanted to check the list to see if I'm on it. It seems the page is now down.

Anywhere I can access the list???

Its working for me, just takes a second to load:

www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:16:49 PM EDT

[#24]

I keep getting:

You've reached a page that no longer exists. If you feel this is an error that we should know about, please report it to our online staff and we'll take a look.

Other factors to consider are:

If you typed the URI that got you here, make sure the capitalization and punctuation are correct and try again.
If you found this page from a browser bookmark, please update it.
If you were looking for an article more than a month old, try searching our archives.

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:22:13 PM EDT

[#25]

It just quit working for me. I think we should all search for any anti-gun representatives we may have. They'll be sure to get the information made private. There is a Robert C. Scott on the list, but I don't think it has the right address to be the congressman.

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:23:11 PM EDT

[#26]

maybe the fact that the poll shows

4% for

96% against

sent the damn newspaper a message and they took it down....

what a bunch of tools....

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:52:23 PM EDT

[#27]

We need a computer wizard to search the reporters info and make it public via blog ASAP!

Posted: 3/11/2007 7:02:06 PM EDT

[#28]

actually, the angry folks on the message board already did that:

Edited Personal Info Out-va-gunnut

i believe someone on the first page of this thread has all sorts of more interesting info

Posted: 3/11/2007 7:12:45 PM EDT

[#29]

hahahahaha this guy lives in Christiansburg?!

Edited: I know your post was in jest, but better to leave those kinds of jokes out of the discussion. va-gunnut

Posted: 3/11/2007 7:31:44 PM EDT

[#30]

still working for me, just pulled my own info up

Posted: 3/11/2007 7:57:36 PM EDT

[#31]

FWIW I fired off letters to my reps and to Kaine. I know it sucks but there may be a small upside in that this is the justification needed to protect concealed carry holders private information.

Posted: 3/11/2007 8:23:12 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
hahahahaha this guy lives in Christiansburg?!

Edited: I know your post was in jest, but better to leave those kinds of jokes out of the discussion. va-gunnut

In my defense, it was neither a joke nor a threat. It was a simple statement based on fact, and I was a little surprised this happened so close to my area.

I'm a little flustered that it was edited out. But I understand that you're being cautious about this whole thing.

Posted: 3/11/2007 9:01:37 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I just got a call dispatched to me about this. The woman I spoke to stated her and her husbands address are listed and what can I do about it. I stated its public record and cant do much about it.

She stated that VCDL listed it on the webpage. I stated I'm a VCDL member as well. She was happy about that

.

I also told her I have a CHL and wanted to check the list to see if I'm on it. It seems the page is now down.

Anywhere I can access the list???

Hey Bruda,

I am VCDL/LEO myself! This kind of crap makes me mad as hell. If you ever need a contact up north just ping me, k.

Posted: 3/11/2007 9:02:32 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I just got a call dispatched to me about this. The woman I spoke to stated her and her husbands address are listed and what can I do about it. I stated its public record and cant do much about it.

She stated that VCDL listed it on the webpage. I stated I'm a VCDL member as well. She was happy about that

.

I also told her I have a CHL and wanted to check the list to see if I'm on it. It seems the page is now down.

Anywhere I can access the list???

Hey Bruda,

I am VCDL/LEO myself! This kind of crap makes me mad as hell. If you ever need a contact up north just ping me, k.

Posted: 3/11/2007 9:08:51 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
actually, the angry folks on the message board already did that:

Edited Personal Info Out-va-gunnut

i believe someone on the first page of this thread has all sorts of more interesting info

beat me to it , I saw it on silencertest . they had his info right below the article.

Posted: 3/11/2007 11:03:51 PM EDT

[#36]

What an asshole!

http://blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/columns/comment_on_trejbals_column_12.html

Scroll down to [March 11, 2007 10:00 PM]
Dave from Iowa
He has listed links to information about Christian Trejbal.

Posted: 3/11/2007 11:35:08 PM EDT

[#37]

The Free-Lance Star here in Fredericksburg used to print the names of all the CCW permits approved in the surruonding countys in the local section. They have since stopped. I don't mind my name printed, but my address bothers me.

Posted: 3/12/2007 3:35:05 AM EDT

[#38]

Can one of the readers of the Roanoke paper provide names/contact information of large advertisers? Here, for our purposes, as well as to allow sites that are also addressing this topic to provide meaningful commentary to the advertisers. (As was demonstrated by the Zumbo case, the only meaningful communications to media companies is that which they receive from advertisers, especially those who pull their advertising dollars.)

Noteworthy in my opinion, but not receiving much attention, is the Roanoke paper's role in this disclosure. The newspaper -- not the columnist -- took what I believe was a flat-file containing information, and created a database that can be searched based on last name and locale. Then they (the newspaper's IT staff) made this database accessible to anonymous public queries by creating a special application for this purpose ... and hosting the database and the application on the newspaper's server.

The newspaper's actions transcend the 'commentary' with which the columnist piously cloaks his actions. The creation of the database and the multimedia publication of the database/application represents purposive actions of the editor(s) and owner(s) of the rag, whose names and home addresses also merit publication -- in every forum addressing this topic.

Posted: 3/12/2007 5:13:21 AM EDT

[#39]

Here is there biz listing system. I am not sure if it includes only those that advertise or all in the area. I am looking now to find others.
Roanoke.com

I wonder if it might be a good idea to sick Channels 7&10 on this? They have a love hate relationship with the paper. It is probably a bad idea. Or, we might want to scan the reporters names in the database..... Hmmmmm.

Posted: 3/12/2007 6:12:51 AM EDT

[#40]

Edited Personal Info Out-va-gunnut
Christian Trejbal

Work Phone:
The Roanoke Times, VA, (540) 381-1645,

Edited Personal Info Out-va-gunnut

Posted: 3/12/2007 6:53:19 AM EDT

[#41]

Good gawd this pisses me off.........

Posted: 3/12/2007 7:38:12 AM EDT

[#42]

I just posted to their blog basically stating that now everyone has at least one VA Supreme Court Judge's home address and would he like it now that everyone has his home address? They actually posted it and now I can't see any comments on their blog. It says comments (289) but that's all I see, but the site for checking is still up though. I wouldn't think all judges and government officals that have a permit would like their address know, just as much as I don't want mine know.

Posted: 3/12/2007 7:45:37 AM EDT

[#43]

Mr. Trejal (loose use of word Mrr.) is not very researched on this topic or he would realize that all permit holders have to undergo some training and a background check before a permit is issued. The background check determines whether or not the applicant has ever had a felony warrant issued in there name. He had several other mistakes but what can you expect he does work for the Roanoke Newspaper. This is not his first time stirring up trouble in the media. check your dictionary for asshole, his picture is probably there as and example.

Posted: 3/12/2007 7:48:19 AM EDT

[#44]

Yup. Me and my dad. Only people on here in our locale with our last name. Awesome. Better call my dad and tell hom to batten down the hatches. Who knows who's gonna come snooping around his house now

EDIT: Fired off messages to the governor, my reps and the reps for the Christiansburg area. Fucking bullshit.

Posted: 3/12/2007 7:57:50 AM EDT

[#45]

I tried posting this but I think they stopped accepting comments (aka CENSORSHIP if the government were to do it):

Mr. Trejbal,

How dare you imply that the state ought to create a CCW permit database similar to the sex-offender database. Those that have a CCW are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, without criminal records, and you try to put us in the same category as child molesters, and rapists. There is a reason to search for sex offenders: to keep ourselves and our children away from actual criminals. What is the reasoning behind a CCW database? To know who is a law abiding citizen? To know who hasn’t broken the law?

Your arguments are weak and non-sensical: In the name of FOI, you trample on our privacy rights. Your assertion that "knowledge is power" assumes that the "gun-toter" is implicitly a would-be criminal. How dare you libel law abiding citizens!

The only reason for such a database is for employers, neighbors, etc. to treat law abiding citizens in a prejudicial way.

you state: "Open government laws arose from distrust of government."

Let's see what laws we can pass out of a distrust of reporters!

eta: I saw his "un-official" e-mail above, here is his "official" [email protected]

Posted: 3/12/2007 7:58:55 AM EDT

[#46]

Dam, my name is on there but at least they have my old address.

Posted: 3/12/2007 8:11:29 AM EDT

[#47]

OMFG the database is serachable by city. Just put in a city (Newport News) and it gives you a virtual shopping list

Posted: 3/12/2007 8:12:13 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
It just quit working for me. I think we should all search for any anti-gun representatives we may have. They'll be sure to get the information made private. There is a Robert C. Scott on the list, but I don't think it has the right address to be the congressman.

good idea...let's also check anybody that works at the newspaper...see if we can reach them and see how they feel about their comrades posting thier names....

fred

Posted: 3/12/2007 8:36:05 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
good idea...let's also check anybody that works at the newspaper...see if we can reach them and see how they feel about their comrades posting thier names....
fred

Using their Obituary list and CCW database, I can search a name in <10 seconds. Found a few possible "hits".

Posted: 3/12/2007 8:40:12 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
The Free-Lance Star here in Fredericksburg used to print the names of all the CCW permits approved in the surruonding countys in the local section. They have since stopped. I don't mind my name printed, but my address bothers me.

Freelance Star is still printing that list. Name and address, I saw it a couple weeks ago for Dec-Jan. I was on it.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ALERT Roanoke Times reporter creates VA CCW searchable database. (Page 1 of 3)

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