ICE made there presecense up North and hit 12 McD's after there 5 month investigation of non-documented workers,40 something hauled in and a protest this evening to include a report of Mayor Fat Bob Cashell being threatened by a Protestor who was removed,,,,,,,,

So how does this affect you? any thoughts on the matter?
Just asking mind ya' nothing else intended or implied

Hiwa

Quoted: How about simply stopping by any Star Nursery in town any day of the week?

I think the same thing every day I drive by one.

Glad to hear ICE is doing something somewhere.

Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics?

How does anti-hacker software have anything to do with rounding up illegals?

Whether or not they are good people or hard workers, I would prefer if those who entered my homeland do so legally so as not to set the precedent that it is acceptable to break the law regardless of your personal plight or to pursue a better life. I struggle every day to better my own life in my own country within the legal parameters of the law set by the judicial system of United States.  My ancestors came here through Ellis Island legally (Mom's side) and my Dad's side dates back to the founding of the State of Connecticut.  I am proud to be an American and would not want to live anywhere else in the world.  It is because of the pride I have in my country that I can see why others want to reside here.  For those of you that yearn deeply enough for the American way of life to go through the legal process to come here I welcome you.  For those who choose to exploit my homeland and effect the economy of the state in which I reside, I leave you with one thought.  I doubt the country of Mexico would allow me to illegally enter, get a job, be able to own land, have the priviledge of owning firearms, and let me demand to have the same rights as a Mexican citizen.  I'm sure I would be sent home asap.  If you want respect, earn it by respecting the laws of the country that you so deeply desire to live in.  If not, fuck you and go home.

Quoted: How about simply stopping by any Star Nursery in town any day of the week?

I was on the north side last week, driving down Cheyenne to get to the 215 and drove saw scores of 'day laborers', atleast 80 of them waiting withing a block of the Star nursery there. All I kept thinking is why doesn't law enforcement do anything....these guys are just standing around waiting to be picked up.....begging for it.

Great post ernieb.

Quoted: Whether or not they are good people or hard workers, I would prefer if those who entered my homeland do so legally so as not to set the precedent that it is acceptable to break the law regardless of your personal plight or to pursue a better life. I struggle every day to better my own life in my own country within the legal parameters of the law set by the judicial system of United States.  My ancestors came here through Ellis Island legally (Mom's side) and my Dad's side dates back to the founding of the State of Connecticut.  I am proud to be an American and would not want to live anywhere else in the world.  It is because of the pride I have in my country that I can see why others want to reside here.  For those of you that yearn deeply enough for the American way of life to go through the legal process to come here I welcome you.  For those who choose to exploit my homeland and effect the economy and of the state in which I reside, I leave you with one thought.  I doubt the country of Mexico would allow me to illegally enter, get a job, be able to own land, have the priviledge of owning firearms, and let me demand to have the same rights as a Mexican citizen.  I'm sure I would be sent home asap.  If you want respect earn it by respecting the laws of the country in which you wish to reside.  If not fuck you and go home.

Very well said.

I remember on  illigal imigrant day. The day when the illigals didnt come to work maybe like 8mo ago. I went the the McDonalds on S. Carson st in Carson City for lunch. It was closed with a sign stating that they would be closed in respect for imigrant workers day. That was a bunch of B.S. just figured that all "imigrants" failed to show up for work. Is there a list of the places hit by I.C.E. would be real interested to find out.

Quoted: Whether or not they are good people or hard workers, I would prefer if those who entered my homeland do so legally so as not to set the precedent that it is acceptable to break the law regardless of your personal plight or to pursue a better life. I struggle every day to better my own life in my own country within the legal parameters of the law set by the judicial system of United States.  My ancestors came here through Ellis Island legally (Mom's side) and my Dad's side dates back to the founding of the State of Connecticut.  I am proud to be an American and would not want to live anywhere else in the world.  It is because of the pride I have in my country that I can see why others want to reside here.  For those of you that yearn deeply enough for the American way of life to go through the legal process to come here I welcome you.  For those who choose to exploit my homeland and effect the economy and of the state in which I reside, I leave you with one thought.  I doubt the country of Mexico would allow me to illegally enter, get a job, be able to own land, have the priviledge of owning firearms, and let me demand to have the same rights as a Mexican citizen.  I'm sure I would be sent home asap.  If you want respect earn it by respecting the laws of the country in which you wish to reside.  If not fuck you and go home.

 High 5

Quoted: Quoted: How about simply stopping by any Star Nursery in town any day of the week? I was on the north side last week, driving down Cheyenne to get to the 215 and drove saw scores of 'day laborers', atleast 80 of them waiting withing a block of the Star nursery there. All I kept thinking is why doesn't law enforcement do anything....these guys are just standing around waiting to be picked up.....begging for it.

 We hear all this "we need workers" CRAP, if there are 25 here and 50 there, to me that means there are too many "workers"  send them home. http://www.theterryandersonshow.com/ scroll down to the brown berets theres an audio clip that may explain some of the attitude

Its all a bunch of bullshit! They say that they do the jobs that even the Blacks won't take. I think that most of us here did those jobs as teens!

Not a year of my life has gone by since the age of 14 that I have not had a job.  I am not too proud to do what I need to do to pay my bills, taxes, and put food on the table.

Here are some of the jobs (not necessarily in any order) I have had over the course of my 37 years on earth.

Maintenance worker
Deli counter person
Lacrosse coach
Baseball coach
Insurance salesman
Construction estimator
Line cook
Bicycle shop manager
Bicycle mechanic
Bicycle racer USCF
Mountain bike guide
Climbing guide
Barrista, no...not a Starbucks..  Mondo Coffee in Moab, Utah
Rangemaster
Gun Store manager
Firearms Instructor
Countless sales and marketing jobs
Performance driving/racing instructor
Race team mechanic
Race team manager
Fabricator
Climbing bum
Countless retail jobs

..and the list goes on.......

My point being, I have learned something from every job I have had in my life and brought that experience to my next place of employment.  I am sure there are Americans to fill the positions being filled by day laborers.

For some strange reason the media makes the American public feel guilty for being American because of our politics and wealth as a nation.  I am tired of being the worlds charity and checkbook when I see problems that need fixing right here at home.  The world has lived off of American money for decades.  We have built economies of nations but yet they call us imperialist capitalists.  I say we take our money and go home and see how the other countries deal with a reduction in American spending.  

Build a big wall and I will gladly sit atop it with a Ma Duece, NVG's, and a good strong cup of coffee (I can add that to my list of jobs as well).

5 month investigation (or something like that) to grab a few illegals working at Mickie Ds.....that's crazy.  Although I'm glad ICE did something with these law breakers, that pool of illegals is a tiny minnow in a ocean full of whales.  I'm with you guys on going by any Star, but why the hell doesn't ICE go after the big/low hanging fruit ?  You can't tell me that a swing through some places such as these huge linen companies wouldn't gobble up hundreds at a time.  Mega-hotel cleaning staffs would seem like another easy place to net huge qtys of illegals; construction sites in new home developments are chock full of them; the big landscape companies have hundreds of them.......

As for the illegal immigrant day back a year and a half ago (when they "showed us how important they were")....  Me and my guys did our part by firing the roach-coach outfit that'd been a daily fixture at our site for a decade +.  Maybe it hasn't made a hill of beans difference but we feel good about it and they're not getting any more of our dollars.  

The LEGAL American public is under assault by these invaders, and the Democrats and Republicans are equally to blame / equally derelict in their duties.  



 

They hit construction sites regularly..... you just don't hear about it on the news.

I am one of the complainants about Identity Theft at a Reno McDonalds.  Several months ago I made the mistake of changing some meals at a McDonalds on South Virginia Street (Reno) with my debit card.  Yes, I do profile and I do remember the counter clerk at this McDonalds being Latino woman speaking very little – poor English.  You know, having to repeat the order several times with that “you’re speaking pig Latin, I don’t understand” look in response!  Pointing to the pictures in the menu helps!!!!!!!!!

The next day my bank is sending me emergency notifications that someone in Brooklyn, New York, is attempting to use my debit card number to charge $7,500 and $12,000 at some jewelry stores.  I ordered an immediate emergency shut-down of my debit card account and I did not loose any money.  I did file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and the bank.

The funny thing about this is before and since than, I always have / do pay cash to this types of places.  The first and only time I had ever used my debit card at a McDonalds, I had this experience.

Hummmm, what a coincidence!!!!

As far as illegal immigration goes, I am very much a R&D (round-up and deportation) type of guy.  Fifty-five down with only 20 – 30 million to go!!!!!

Deport em all !!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't wanna hear heart touching stories of this or that, just GTFO. If someone breaks into your house and starts demanding equal rights as one of your own family members, living off of your own personal work system, you would stop it right away. The U.S.A. is OUR home, and we shouldn't feel any more guilty telling them to get out of the country than we would to tell them to GTFO out of our own house. They are playing the race Card here in a very big way, we know the cards they have and they still win or make progress.This is absolutely pitiful on our countries part. They say, well they can't make a living there or the Govt. is too oppressive, why ? Why because they just roll over and take it, and sneak in here and we roll over and take it, this is Sh!t ! We had a revolutionary war,a civil war,and a World War to get this country to where it is, its not an easy thing to do, but it is something They need to do or things will never change there and the pissy liberals here will continue grabbing their ankles and taking it ,and ruin for all of us.Hey illegals, This side is OURS and THAT shi$$y side is yours, you and your forefathers created it, live in it.

listen to this   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzKxfAo2TU

Quoted: I am one of the complainants about Identity Theft at a Reno McDonalds.  Several months ago I made the mistake of changing some meals at a McDonalds on South Virginia Street (Reno) with my debit card.  Yes, I do profile and I do remember the counter clerk at this McDonalds being Latino woman speaking very little – poor English.  You know, having to repeat the order several times with that “you’re speaking pig Latin, I don’t understand” look in response!  Pointing to the pictures in the menu helps!!!!!!!!! The next day my bank is sending me emergency notifications that someone in Brooklyn, New York, is attempting to use my debit card number to charge $7,500 and $12,000 at some jewelry stores.  I ordered an immediate emergency shut-down of my debit card account and I did not loose any money.  I did file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and the bank. The funny thing about this is before and since than, I always have / do pay cash to this types of places.  The first and only time I had ever used my debit card at a McDonalds, I had this experience. Hummmm, what a coincidence!!!! As far as illegal immigration goes, I am very much a R&D (round-up and deportation) type of guy.  Fifty-five down with only 20 – 30 million to go!!!!!

This kind of racist diatribe does nothing to further the discussion of this very serious human rights situation. You obviously don't understand the situation in Mexico and other underdeveloped nations. These people have come here to do the work that no one in this country wants to do because there is no hope of a future in their own homeland. They are simply trying to take care of themselves and their families.
If we put up a wall, as you have suggested, then these unfortunate people would have no means of support and would turn to the hideously corrupt Mexican government. This would lead to political turmoil and upheaval. Americans could not go to Cabo or Tijuana, American High Schoolers would have to take jobs at MacDonalds, farmers would have to hire legal employees and pay a living wage. Mexico would be plunged into chaos. The people would revolt. Change might actually occur. People might get hurt, or even, GASP,.....DIE!
All because of your selfishness. You selfish bastard. Did I mention Racist?
<[:^(      <-----This is the sad Mexican in a sombrero emoticon.

Quoted: Quoted: I am one of the complainants about Identity Theft at a Reno McDonalds.  Several months ago I made the mistake of changing some meals at a McDonalds on South Virginia Street (Reno) with my debit card.  Yes, I do profile and I do remember the counter clerk at this McDonalds being Latino woman speaking very little – poor English.  You know, having to repeat the order several times with that “you’re speaking pig Latin, I don’t understand” look in response!  Pointing to the pictures in the menu helps!!!!!!!!! The next day my bank is sending me emergency notifications that someone in Brooklyn, New York, is attempting to use my debit card number to charge $7,500 and $12,000 at some jewelry stores.  I ordered an immediate emergency shut-down of my debit card account and I did not loose any money.  I did file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and the bank. The funny thing about this is before and since than, I always have / do pay cash to this types of places.  The first and only time I had ever used my debit card at a McDonalds, I had this experience. Hummmm, what a coincidence!!!! As far as illegal immigration goes, I am very much a R&D (round-up and deportation) type of guy.  Fifty-five down with only 20 – 30 million to go!!!!! This kind of racist diatribe does nothing to further the discussion of this very serious human rights situation. You obviously don't understand the situation in Mexico and other underdeveloped nations. These people have come here to do the work that no one in this country wants to do because there is no hope of a future in their own homeland. They are simply trying to take care of themselves and their families. If we put up a wall, as you have suggested, then these unfortunate people would have no means of support and would turn to the hideously corrupt Mexican government. This would lead to political turmoil and upheaval. Americans could not go to Cabo or Tijuana, American High Schoolers would have to take jobs at MacDonalds, farmers would have to hire legal employees and pay a living wage. Mexico would be plunged into chaos. The people would revolt. Change might actually occur. People might get hurt, or even, GASP,.....DIE! All because of your selfishness. You selfish bastard. Did I mention Racist? <[:^(      <-----This is the sad Mexican in a sombrero emoticon.

 Boo Freekin Hoo  then I guess its time for Mexico to grow up and stand on its own 2 FEET ! What you just posted is why they will never progress, because they always feel there is an OUT.God forbid they actually get it together, and not have to or want to suckle the U.S. teet

By the way, You just played the Race Card, I figured someone would do it, I just didnt know who.

after another read, Twas all in jest I suspect  ??    Doh!!

Been listening to this ICE raid situation on the radio.

I about burst a blood vessel this morning.

THEY'RE LETTING A BUNCH OF THE DETAINEES GO!

(given .... there's about 30 illegals who ARE being deported).

According to the news this morning (780 AM KOH, Northern Nevada), about a dozen  30 illegal immigrants were assigned court dates, and RELEASED.

RELEASED   ???????


What.   The.    Fuck.  




ETA:

Apprently I was WRONG.

Only seven are being deported  (yep, seven. That's one less than 8, and only one more than 6 ........ and about 47 too few!)

30 illegals were released with court dates.

http://www.kkoh.com/data/kkoh_article_images/MACKPROTWEB.mp3
(careful when you click, it pulls up an MP3 audio file of the news report)

I say again:  What.   The.    Fuck.  

Its funny, they have no problem busting the ones working high profile jobs....Id rather see them go after the crimininal element...ah but thats to much for them...5 months eating at McDs and then they arrest them...how about 5 months collecting up the scum bags and shipping them back to vato land. They all need to go back but like I say lets start with the criminals.

Quoted: after another read, Twas all in jest I suspect  ??    Doh!!

Quoted: This kind of racist diatribe does nothing to further the discussion of this very serious human rights situation. You obviously don't understand the situation in Mexico and other underdeveloped nations. These people have come here to do the work that no one in this country wants to do because there is no hope of a future in their own homeland. They are simply trying to take care of themselves and their families. If we put up a wall, as you have suggested, then these unfortunate people would have no means of support and would turn to the hideously corrupt Mexican government. This would lead to political turmoil and upheaval. Americans could not go to Cabo or Tijuana, American High Schoolers would have to take jobs at MacDonalds, farmers would have to hire legal employees and pay a living wage. Mexico would be plunged into chaos. The people would revolt. Change might actually occur. People might get hurt, or even, GASP,.....DIE! All because of your selfishness. You selfish bastard. Did I mention Racist?

Please do not give me this “they just want a better life” and “they do the jobs that Americans will not do” and “they are escaping a corrupt and poor county” and “we are a nation of immigrants, so they are welcome” and all the other related BS.

These people are here in violation of federal laws, and I do not care if they are black, white, green, purple, yellow or from Mexico, Ireland, India, Canada, Mars, or any other place, these illegal immigrants need to be thrown out!  Now!  You are right, I do  understand the situation in Mexico, but you know what, I do not care!  Too bad so sad!  

And do not give me this, “oh, you’re racist” BS, I do not buy it.  If you like them so much, you can get you’re as# out too and go live with them!  Who do you think you are, the PC Police?

Do not call me a racist!  Funny, neither you nor I can join The National Council of La Laza!  Talk about a racist organization!  Check out the Internet and see what La Laza (The Race) thinks of you!  

Me, a racist?  Don't go there buddy and you can blow it out you as# !!!!

PS: I did not mention a wall, but I do think it is an excellent idea!! What do you think of that Mr. PC Policeman?

MP5hermano, I wuz jes' keeding witchoo, meng.
In all seriousness, I was pointing out how if we really cared about our brown brothers, we'd send them home to fix their own country's mess.
The US is like a pressure relief valve that allows the corruption to continue. Also, it's kind of funny how it all sounds so innocent on the news. It's just a stolen ID investigation. Like, they just want to pump up your SSN retirement. No mention of an attempted $20K theft. That would make them look like criminals. We couldn't have that.

What really pisses me off, is that I find myself agreeing with GENUINE racists because our Government's policies put me in this unenviable position. I am becoming accustomed to it.

Remember the old KDWN ??? I miss those days, there was some real progress going on, but the pressure became too much and they sold the station. Still, the  http://www.theterryandersonshow.com/  is on Sunday nights at 9. If you never heard of it, check it out. I have met the man, donated money to him, and he is right 99% of the time

Quoted: MP5hermano, I wuz jes' keeding witchoo, meng. In all seriousness, I was pointing out how if we really cared about our brown brothers, we'd send them home to fix their own country's mess. The US is like a pressure relief valve that allows the corruption to continue. Also, it's kind of funny how it all sounds so innocent on the news. It's just a stolen ID investigation. Like, they just want to pump up your SSN retirement. No mention of an attempted $20K theft. That would make them look like criminals. We couldn't have that. What really pisses me off, is that I find myself agreeing with GENUINE racists because our Government's policies put me in this unenviable position. I am becoming accustomed to it.

Hey Gun Monkey!  

Ok, I do understand what you are trying to do.  I did not mean to come off so hard, but that is the usual tactic of La Raza and pro-immigrant groups, just call you a racist when you challenge them on their polices and actions.  I see that this is also a tactic of the Mexican government, to call native born US citizens racists when there are protests about illegal immigration.

I agree with you, I too sometimes find myself agreeing the some of the very hard right because of the way the situation in this country is evolving!  

I do believe in the R&D (roundup and deportation) from these people, and I do mean I do not care where they are from.  Interesting enough, the illegal’s that piss me off the most are the ones from Ireland (of all places).  I have seen their “I got my rights” demonstrations on the Internet (occurring in Boston), and their arrogance and in-your-face attitude, along with their red hair, blue eyes, and Irish accent for some reason just really, really, pisses me off big time.  I do mean it, if I were in charge, the first to go would be the illegals from Ireland!!!!!

I too listen to Terry Anderson (Hello Stupid People of America)!  Bottom line for me is all of this is with illegal immigration, crime, the housing crash, depressed wages, exportation of jobs, importation of H1B Visa workers and the poor, Iran, Iraq, China, the federal budget deficit, and all of the stupid politicians, I just cannot help but wonder what the hell is going to happen to this country?

Maybe I listen and watch Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, Terry Anderson, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Savage too much?  The trouble is they are all so right about everything!

Minus Hush Bimbo and add Tammy Bruce and you are right on the mark.

I understand your angst perfectly. Back when I first joined the ARFCom board and I actually went into GD, I made a few less than eloquent comments about brown people who cannot speak English yet live full time in this country. I was immediately labeled a racist and had to try to justify my position from behind the 8ball (that sounds racist, too).
 
We are totally on the same page here. I am part of the R&D crowd, too. That is just part of the solution. Before an effective bandage can be applied to the wound, you must stop the assailant from stabbing you.

Quoted: In all seriousness ..... FUCK 'EM!

They're  you go.. FUCK 'EM. They are Americans but FUCK 'EM. Who gives a fuck, they're not REAL Americans anyway right? Quite a few of them who have been born here by parents who were illegals but they died overseas in Iraq but FUCK THEM EVEN MORE.


Lucky for us AMERICANS the original AMERICAN Indians didn't have equal firepower because they would have tossed out those land-grabbing, buffalo-killing, ROUNDING up and sticking on reservation, original makers of the Death March illegal aliens.

thanks,
Ron  

Quoted: Quoted: In all seriousness ..... FUCK 'EM! They're  you go.. FUCK 'EM. They are Americans but FUCK 'EM. Who gives a fuck, they're not REAL Americans anyway right? Quite a few of them who have been born here by parents who were illegals but they died overseas in Iraq but FUCK THEM EVEN MORE. Lucky for us AMERICANS the original AMERICAN Indians didn't have equal firepower because they would have tossed out those land-grabbing, buffalo-killing, ROUNDING up and sticking on reservation, original makers of the Death March illegal aliens. thanks, Ron

What is your solution, Doctor?

Quoted: Quoted: In all seriousness ..... FUCK 'EM! They're  you go.. FUCK 'EM. They are Americans but FUCK 'EM. Who gives a fuck, they're not REAL Americans anyway right? Quite a few of them who have been born here by parents who were illegals but they died overseas in Iraq but FUCK THEM EVEN MORE. Lucky for us AMERICANS the original AMERICAN Indians didn't have equal firepower because they would have tossed out those land-grabbing, buffalo-killing, ROUNDING up and sticking on reservation, original makers of the Death March illegal aliens. thanks, Ron

I've been waiting for someone to invoke that argument .... both of those arguments, actually.

We are living by different rules today, and the simple, harsh truth to the matter is that there are just too damned many people on this planet. And they ALL want to live in the US and improve their lives in all the ways this great nation affords (and some that it supports through social programs).

I agree that the injustice, corruption, misery, squalor, etc. of various countries is regrettable, and I truly wish that every last human being alive (or to be born), could live a long, productive, comfortable, healthy life full of puppies and health benefits and satellite TV and whatever other engineered nepenthe of the masses they desire.

But unfortunately, those resources are limited, and the growing population of the globe appears not to be. We've got an abundant accumulation of those resources in the US (largely because we're responsible for the development of many of those technologies that have improved our quality of life), and the rest of the world looks to us with covetous eyes.

Maybe it isn't fair. Maybe it isn't equitable. (And to quote MeanSteve .... ) on a global scale, it certainly isn't egalitarian.

And we can't afford for it to be.

To the victor go the spoils, and for about 50 years (1945 to the conclusion of the cold war), the USA was the decided victor on the world stage.

American citizens got happy and fat, and the excess and revolutionary technologies from our society flowed out into the darker corners of the world. Those people saw how good it was to "be an American," partially from the affluence of our lifestyle, but also because we disseminated to them medical supplies, food, medical technologies, and infrastructure that also improved their quality of life, albeit to a lesser extent than that enjoyed stateside.

But meanwhile, something significant was happening. The inhabitants of the First World nations looked around them and saw that there was an imminent threat to the continuation of their lifestyle; there is a limit to all those resources we've been utilizing, and the more people there are using them up, the sooner the party would come to a self-consuming end.

Over just about two decades, the "classic citizens" of the Western World self-imposed an essential ZPG (Zero-Population-Growth) through the use of "family planning," etc. The lifespan on Utopia would have been successfully extended, except for one little flaw:

Driven by the desire to emulate the decadent American lifestyle, and fueled by a population exploding from an American-antibiotic-induced lack of disease, improved sanitation, and (therefore) increased fertility, there are suddenly growing hordes of poor, hungry, innocent masses. And nearly every last one of them is slavering all over themselves to "just get to America ...." where life will be better. At least, those who don't have the capacity to make an amicable life for themselves back in their home country, anyway.




So, Ron: We're facing an ever worsening problem. We've got limited resources, and a population of needy (illegal) immigrants flooding across our borders who all need (and want) some of what us fat Americans have. And there's far more of them than can ever possibly be equitably served without seriously diminishing the quality of life for the rest of the society.

Its coming to the point where we're going to have to FIGHT to keep what resources we have. You're going to HAVE to, because all those immigrants sure as hell are going to fight to take what they perceive that they need. And they have less to lose, and a lot more to gain.


Its interesting that you brought up the travesty of the wars with the Native Americans. This is a different time, with different priorities, and different accepted practices. During the time when an entire continent of nations (of likely 20 million, healthy, prosperous) Native Americans was decimated, international politics were significantly different than in our modern, "civilized" era. Explorers brought settlers, settlers turned to expansionists, and conquering anyone and everyone in the way of your personal forward progress was deemed an acceptable practice .... especially when it came to America's manifest destiny.

What happened then was nearly and practically genocide. (For some tribes/races of Native Americans, it literally WAS genocide). And you're correct that if the Native Americans had possessed enough might to repulse us "Death March illegal aliens," they would have rightfully done so.

But that is because in that age might made right!

Today, the world society has a different code of morals, whereby the concept of conquering for the sake of resources is mostly antiquated, and largely shunned by all legitimate governments.

Here's the key difference: America isn't conquering some undeveloped, third world nation in order to exploit its natural resources ..... third world nations are invading the USA in order to exploit our social and economic benefits.

Its just that now we don't know what to call it, or how to deal with it because:
1) The invaders aren't the usual suspects: affluent, Westerners in search of business opportunities.
2) Our natural tendencies toward compassion tell us that since we have excess, that we should help those who are less fortunate and in need.
3) and finally because this type of invasion is largely unprecedented, and the consequences (though not difficult to surmise) aren't well-known or understood.

To answer your question as to whether or not these American-Citizens-who-are-children-of-illegals are REAL AMERICAN Citizens ......?

"Real American Citizens" are whatever we say they are by law. The current law stipulates that anyone born on American soil is automatically an American citizen. This legal practice is termed jus soli, or birthright citizenship.

As a point of interest, most Western nations have abolished this practice because of the inevitable phenomenon of Anchor Babies, and the ensuing moral dilemma of how to deal with the (illegal) non-citizen parents of a legal citizen. The US practice of jus soli is essentially an artefact of a time when the US government needed more citizens to realize its Manifest Destiny and successfully settle and populate the nation from coast to coast.


Now that we have the inverse population situation (namely, that of an EXCESS population), does it not make sense to repeal those laws and practices that are specifically designed at rapidly growing our county's citizenry?

Instead, I would argue that we must quickly and aggressively take steps to ensure our domestic economic and social security, and make attempts to secure our American lifestyle into perpetuity (which is currently clearly in imminent danger!).



I posit that such steps could be collectively summarized and applied to all illegal immigrants (and the recent products [i.e. children] of illegal immigrants) as I previously stated in my earlier post as "FUCK 'EM!!!!"
(this was just the slightly more long-winded and logically justified rationale to that aforementioned conclusion).

This includes rounding them up, deporting them all, securing the borders (North, South AND East, and West) by any and every means necessary (be they politically correct or not), and delivering this Nation's future from the hands of the illegal-alien interlopers and back to the citizens who have MADE it what it is.

Quoted: So after you deport all the illegal adults, what’s the plan for the kids who were born here and are citizens? There are lots of kids that are citizens from these folks, millions. Just wondering what you all had in mind.

Without getting angry, I'll throw out a couple of suggestions.
1. They can join their parents in the nation to which they return. We'll pick up the cost of the flight/bus.
2. They can stay here with relatives who are in this country legally, if that is an option for them.
3. They can enter the same system that a child would enter if their parents were criminals of any other sort. Don't want your kids in state sponsored foster care? Let's be honest, it would just be a change in who manages the money at home if the state took charge of the children. The state is already footing the bill for their care. Maybe, once the illegal adults have returned to their homelands and we no longer spend bazillions on their care, we could open facilities to care for the legal offspring they leave behind. They could be educated as Americans (not as foreigners who enjoy the generosity of America, without the gratitude), taught the greatness of our nation. We could create future citizens.
Shades of Lebensborn, perhaps, but if you want some ideas, there ya go.
4. We could just have a day where everybody gets a free pass. Citizenship for illegal immigrants. Pardons could be arranged for murderers, bank robbers, etc. Library fines would be forgiven. Traffic tickets could be waived. Everyone with illegal machine guns could put them on the NFA registry.We could all smoke a big fat hooter and hug and love and embrace our fellow man. I could ride my bicycle in tight shorts and free myself from the oppression of the corporate whores that force me to be oil dependent.

There is a solution. It may suck for some people. That's how life is.    

Quoted: Quoted: In all seriousness ..... FUCK 'EM! They're  you go.. FUCK 'EM. They are Americans but FUCK 'EM. Who gives a fuck, they're not REAL Americans anyway right? Quite a few of them who have been born here by parents who were illegals but they died overseas in Iraq but FUCK THEM EVEN MORE. Lucky for us AMERICANS the original AMERICAN Indians didn't have equal firepower because they would have tossed out those land-grabbing, buffalo-killing, ROUNDING up and sticking on reservation, original makers of the Death March illegal aliens. thanks, Ron

I have to defer to the eloquent stylings of Mr. Gryphon X on his response to this.
This subject obviously hits some nerves.

Quoted: Today, the world society has a different code of morals, whereby the concept of conquering for the sake of resources is mostly antiquated, and largely shunned by all legitimate governments. As a point of interest, most Western nations have abolished this practice because of the inevitable phenomenon of Anchor Babies, and the ensuing moral dilemma of how to deal with the (illegal) non-citizen parents of a legal citizen. The US practice of jus soli is essentially an artefact of a time when the US government needed more citizens to realize its Manifest Destiny and successfully settle and populate the nation from coast to coast.

This is the EXACT same argument that the United Nations and anti-gun forces use against the ownership and possession of firearms by citizens of the United States. We have a different code of morals and our government can clearly provide for our safety. Most nations consider our 2nd Amendment "antiquated, and largely shunned by all legitimate governments". Also, "most Western nations have abolished this practice (gun ownership) because" we are a much more civilized nation. We are much to civilized of a nation to need all these firearms, right?

So, lets go ahead and ratify the 14th Amendment and how much longer do you think it will take to ratify the 2nd Amendment? I don't how many times I have heard the argument that the 2nd Amendment is "antiquated" and "an artifact of time when the US needed more citizens" to help protect the nation. They have the strongest military in the world with the best weapons, why do those silly Americans need all those guns that cause so much violence and murder..... that's what they say about us overseas.

Maybe the best solution would be to imprison US citizens that hire, employ or use the services of an illegal immigrant. If a manager of Lowe's hires an illegal, throw him/her into prison for 365 days. Along with the manager, grab the general manager, area supervisor and even the executives of the company. The same goes for the people that pick up the illegals on the street corner to do work for them. If some mom hires a illegal to do some yard work and she's caught, throw her ass in jail and let her baby become a ward of the state. If they get caught a second time, throw them in prison for 10 years. How's that sound? Do it a third time, lethal injection. If it weren't for AMERICANS providing jobs for these illegals they wouldn't be here in the first place.

I haven't defended the ILLEGALS or their activities but I cannot fathom putting MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of kids into Federal custody to be raised because that's exactly what will happen. We all know how smooth the Federal government runs programs

LVverticl, I don't have an answer but neither have years and years of presidents and members of congress that have come and gone. I can tell one thing though, FUCK 'EM is not in my list of possibilities when comes to AMERICAN children.

thanks,
Ron

Even screwed up countries have some law on the books stating that kids of non-citizens or illegal aliens are not citizens of that country, the current situation here is nothing more than slow suicide.

Well Im not afraid to say so...IM A RACIST....and fuck all the liberal assholes and illegal aliens destroying my white heritage and country. This is a white country founded by whites...if you dont like it go back to your shithole country. Im tired of buckling under to every 2 bit religion thats not ours...fuck the muslim assholes and thier god...go back to your sewer laden country pathetic bunch of scum. There Ive said what many would like to but dont want to be called a racist.....call me a racist, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

Quoted: Even screwed up countries have some law on the books stating that kids of non-citizens or illegal aliens are not citizens of that country, the current situation here is nothing more than slow suicide.

I don't believe Mexico is one...... my cousin was born down there just so my uncle could buy property in his son's name.....

You can call it an anchor baby..... but he looked at it as an investment and not a way to move the whole family to another country.

Quoted: So after you deport all the illegal adults, what’s the plan for the kids who were born here and are citizens? There are lots of kids that are citizens from these folks, millions. Just wondering what you all had in mind.

They can be deported too and go live with mom and dad!

Recently there was a big hub-bulb about Elvira Arellano who was arrested and deported by ICE back to Mexico after having sanctuary in a Chicago church.  Her 7 year old son Saul, born in the US, was recently allowed into Mexico by the Mexican government to live with her mother, no problem.

Why?  Because under current Mexican law, Saul has dual-citizenship, US – Mexico; so because Saul is also a Mexican citizen, he must be allowed to live in Mexico.  It is the same for many other Central and South American counties and some European counties, notably Ireland, Switzerland, Italy, and Spain.  I have family ties of Swiss background and I have just received an application from the Swiss government for dual-citizenship.  I am seriously considering it – check it out on the Internet.

So maybe it is just me, but I do not understand why it is so hard to enforce immigration law when the penalty is in reality so minor – just to be sent home.

And I have to agree with Terry Anderson as what he is so angry about illegal immigration.  Terry’s point is that violation of federal immigration law is a criminal offense, either a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the circumstances.

So why are illegal aliens, who by all statutes, have no rights, let alone to even being here, given a pass on their criminal violations of the law; and I, as a US Native born citizen is not given the same privilege?  Where is my pass on a violation of a criminal statute?  I want the same deal that is given to illegal aliens; I want a pass on the commission of a criminal offense!

And even if an illegal alien is finally arrested and deported, what is the big penalty?  Oh, to be sent home with the admonishment not to return!  Big deal!  If I commit a criminal offense, I want the consequences to be, well, to be sent home to Indiana!  

Just last week the Nevada Parole Board commuted the sentences of almost 400 inmates, who are also illegal aliens, in Nevada prisons during time for crimes they committed in Nevada.  Think of the pain, suffering, and money they cost their victims.  What happens? Well it costs too much to keep you and besides, you don’t really belong here, so your additional punishment, well, to be sent home!  And the Nevada Attorney General is right, they will be back!  Maybe they will get arrested again after they rob you, steal your car, or kill your son or wife or daughter while driving DUI.  But do not worry, part of their punishment will to be sent home!

All of this is such BS it is beyond belief!

Quoted: Well Im not afraid to say so...IM A RACIST....and fuck all the liberal assholes and illegal aliens destroying my white heritage and country. This is a white country founded by whites...if you dont like it go back to your shithole country. Im tired of buckling under to every 2 bit religion thats not ours...fuck the muslim assholes and thier god...go back to your sewer laden country pathetic bunch of scum. There Ive said what many would like to but dont want to be called a racist.....call me a racist, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

Its not illegal yet, and from the videos I have seen of the invaders, they aint too worried about it either.

Quoted: Well Im not afraid to say so...IM A RACIST....and fuck all the liberal assholes and illegal aliens destroying my white heritage and country. This is a white country founded by whites...if you dont like it go back to your shithole country. Im tired of buckling under to every 2 bit religion thats not ours...fuck the muslim assholes and thier god...go back to your sewer laden country pathetic bunch of scum. There Ive said what many would like to but dont want to be called a racist.....call me a racist, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

Thank you for stepping up to the plate. Us half-breed interlopers have a hard time knowing who is who out there.

This great white country of OURS that was founded by whites was also built on the backs of browns, blacks and yellows ALONGSIDE of those of the whites.

.. but hell, I'm just a spic, what does my opinion mean anyways

thanks,
Ron

next post down......

If your here illegaly then you should be sent back....but YOU arent are you LOL...talks cheap as shit. Every fucking country in the world was at one time taken from someone else....so should we give it back to them????????? Ilegal means just that...if your here ilegaly then you should be  thrown out and back to that shithole called mexico. If chinese...back to china.....what ever country your from.

The country has a problem, we can try to understand what’s causing it and work to resolve it or we can say Fuck 'em. I for one choose the first option.

The constitution is not up for debate it is the law of the land and if they are born here they are as much a citizen as any one.

I am not picking a side but I am also not in some fantasy land thinking deporting 20-30 million people is possible, not with the thin skinned political environment we live in today.

I don't want our govt. raising these kids when the South American families have proven to display one of the tightest family groups in the whole world. Tight families breads good people. Just look at the ghetto neighborhoods, where most of the black fathers are doing time/drugs/or are dead, for a view of serious social problems associated with broken families.

95% of the South American's are breaking the law (crossing the border) to have a better life not to hurt our way of life. They want to work, they stand all day in the sun at a chance to work. Have you seen any black folks doing that in North Vegas lately? I didn’t think so.

How hard would it be to have them all come down to City PD and be finger printed, photographed, and upon passing a background check be issued temporary work visas (like they do for Vegas industry workers)? Give them 9 months to do that. Then make it a felony to be illegally in the country - then the felony status will untie the hands of local law enforcement and they can start rounding up these folks and arrest them if they did not comply with the work visa program. Once arrested they will due their time (work camps picking up garbage and painting over tagger marks) and be deported never to be allowed in our country again or face 10yrs./$10,000 fine just like we do for having a piece of steel 15.5".

They would have to renew the work visa every 2-3yrs. and if they can not show steady work they are deported (this will keep the wages down and make sure they stay working and stay out of trouble), if arrested and convicted for any misdemeanor or felony they are deported for life. let them work, they don't need to be citizens to raise families, have hope and help make our country better.  

Quoted: The country has a problem, we can try to understand what’s causing it and work to resolve it or we can say Fuck 'em. I for one choose the first option. The constitution is not up for debate it is the law of the land and if they are born here they are as much a citizen as any one. Fortunately, you are wrong. The legal basis of Jus soli in the US is ultimately the 14th amendment, but which is codified by the Immigration and Naturalization Act. Neither is immutable. The latest changes to the Immigration and Naturalizatoion Act were in 2005. And just because a legal issue is addressed by a Constitutional Amendment doesn't mean its set in stone: The Constitution was designed as a living document that could be updated with the times. Remember the 18th Amendment (Prohibition), which, consequently was repealed by the 21st Amendment? I am not picking a side but I am also not in some fantasy land thinking deporting 20-30 million people is possible, not with the thin skinned political environment we live in today. Really? Why not? Ever heard of Operation Wetback? If 1.2 million illegals could be rounded up and deported in 1954 over the course of about a year, why can't we initiate a similar campaign today? The thin-skinned political climate? The fact that we're having this conversation indicates that the political environment is quickly changing ..... I don't want our govt. raising these kids when the South American families have proven to display one of the tightest family groups in the whole world. Tight families breads good people (Except for the fact that they didn't think much of breaking Federal Law while breaking into our country. If those wholesome South American families (or illegal immigrant families from any other nation, for that matter) treat our Federal Laws with such disrespect and levity, forgive me if I question just exactly how GOOD they truly are ..... . Just look at the ghetto neighborhoods, where most of the black fathers are doing time/drugs/or are dead, for a view of serious social problems associated with broken families. That is an entirely seperate issue of such gravity and complexity that we cannot even begin to address it in the same breath as a discussion on Illegal Immigration. Furthermore, I do not entirely see the relevance of invoking such an example. What are you suggesting? Deporting all the irresponsible, inner-city black folks and transferring their citizenship to immigrants of Hispanic heritage ....... 95% of the South American's are breaking the law (crossing the border) to have a better life not to hurt our way of life Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. The numbers who are invading illegally will necessarily impinge on the quality of life of present US citizens in their quest to better their own lives. Its inconventient, and an unpleasant concept to acknowledge, but its a question of simple supply and demand in the face of limited resources under the umbrella of an increasingly Socialist government . They want to work, they stand all day in the sun at a chance to work. Have you seen any black folks doing that in North Vegas lately? I didn’t think so. How hard would it be to have them all come down to City PD and be finger printed, photographed, and upon passing a background check be issued temporary work visas (like they do for Vegas industry workers)? Give them 9 months to do that. Then make it a felony to be illegally in the country - then the felony status will untie the hands of local law enforcement and they can start rounding up these folks and arrest them if they did not comply with the work visa program. Once arrested they will due their time (work camps picking up garbage and painting over tagger marks) and be deported never to be allowed in our country again or face 10yrs./$10,000 fine just like we do for having a piece of steel 15.5". They would have to renew the work visa every 2-3yrs. and if they can not show steady work they are deported (this will keep the wages down and make sure they stay working and stay out of trouble), if arrested and convicted for any misdemeanor or felony they are deported for life. let them work, they don't need to be citizens to raise families, have hope and help make our country better.   If you can coordinate all that shit, we should put you in charge of coordinating the significantly simplier and straight-forward effort of rounding up and deporting all the illegal aliens ......

Quoted: Quoted: Today, the world society has a different code of morals, whereby the concept of conquering for the sake of resources is mostly antiquated, and largely shunned by all legitimate governments. As a point of interest, most Western nations have abolished this practice because of the inevitable phenomenon of Anchor Babies, and the ensuing moral dilemma of how to deal with the (illegal) non-citizen parents of a legal citizen. The US practice of jus soli is essentially an artefact of a time when the US government needed more citizens to realize its Manifest Destiny and successfully settle and populate the nation from coast to coast. This is the EXACT same argument that the United Nations and anti-gun forces use against the ownership and possession of firearms by citizens of the United States. We have a different code of morals and our government can clearly provide for our safety. Most nations consider our 2nd Amendment "antiquated, and largely shunned by all legitimate governments". Also, "most Western nations have abolished this practice (gun ownership) because" we are a much more civilized nation. We are much to civilized of a nation to need all these firearms, right? AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrRRRgggggggggGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Grammar is such a pain. Let me sort this out: 1) I argued it USED to be acceptable (pre-20th century) to conquer and exploit any region that wasn't already under the rule of a Western Monarchy. 2) I pointed out that this practice as an International Policy is antiquated, and has largely been abandoned by legitimate, modern, civilized nations. 3) I pointed out that the US isn't conquering the third world, but rather the third world is invading the US (and we have the right to defend our national security). 4) Then you got mad at me for pointing out the retirement of "antiquated policies" and likened it to the gun-grabbers arguments against the private ownership of firearms enjoyed by Americans. ............... If retiring "antiquated policies" is evil, as per you argument in #4 ......... then my argument #2 is also evil ................... ...................... and any antiquated policy that was argued into retirement SHOULDN'T have been retired (just like private ownership of firearms SHOULDN'T be retired as an antiquated policy) ............. ........ so ........................... What are you saying? Aha! I get it! I understand the logical conclusion of your arguments: Its high time for America to un-retire colonialism, and we can feel free to conquer, subjugate, and exploit any Third World Nation that we can dominate. Hot Snot! Where do I sign up as an Expansionist/Explorer/Pioneer!?! I can't wait to rekindle Trails of Tears all over the developing world in order to be able to line my pockets! <DISCLAIMER: This reply is satire> So, lets go ahead and ratify the 14th Amendment and how much longer do you think it will take to ratify the 2nd Amendment? I don't how many times I have heard the argument that the 2nd Amendment is "antiquated" and "an artifact of time when the US needed more citizens" to help protect the nation. They have the strongest military in the world with the best weapons, why do those silly Americans need all those guns that cause so much violence and murder..... that's what they say about us overseas. Maybe the best solution would be to imprison US citizens that hire, employ or use the services of an illegal immigrant. If a manager of Lowe's hires an illegal, throw him/her into prison for 365 days. Along with the manager, grab the general manager, area supervisor and even the executives of the company. The same goes for the people that pick up the illegals on the street corner to do work for them. If some mom hires a illegal to do some yard work and she's caught, throw her ass in jail and let her baby become a ward of the state. If they get caught a second time, throw them in prison for 10 years. How's that sound? Do it a third time, lethal injection. If it weren't for AMERICANS providing jobs for these illegals they wouldn't be here in the first place. I'm with you 100%. There are two responsible parties who are perpetrating this massive rape of the rights of US Citizens: The invading hordes of illegal aliens, and the employers who enable those hordes. We cannot truly rectify this issue without addressing both sides of this sinister coin. I haven't defended the ILLEGALS or their activities but I cannot fathom putting MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of kids into Federal custody to be raised because that's exactly what will happen. We all know how smooth the Federal government runs programs I agree: you haven't defended the indefensible actions of all those law-breaking illegal aliens (though, from our conversations, I can't shake the impression that you'd exonerate the lot of them, and then extend them the laurel branch of citizenship ....). And why????? (Dare I say it?) .......... its all 'for the children!' I've NEVER said that the children would be forced into state custody; there has always been a choice (not that its much of a choice). But it was their irresponsible, law-breaking, entitlement-seeking parents who PUT those children into the midst of that awful choice. And now you want to blame the US Justice system for the poor, misguided gamble taken by the parents ??????? Are you sure you aren't from Kalifornia? LVverticl, I don't have an answer but neither have years and years of presidents and members of congress that have come and gone. I can tell one thing though, FUCK 'EM is not in my list of possibilities when comes to AMERICAN children. thanks, Ron

Quoted: Thank you for stepping up to the plate. Us half-breed interlopers have a hard time knowing who is who out there. Who called you that? Are you not a legal citizen? Where do your National loyalties lie? If you are truly an American citizen, then you are cannot be an interloper. If you care to renounce your citizenship and instead carry the banner of La Raza, then do so. Otherwise, sort out your priorities: Either you advocate the Socialist redistribution of the assets of American citizens to whosoever whines the loudest (.... and race is truly irrelevant to this argument), or you must get on board with protecting American interests. Whether or not you continue to fall within that category is between you, your God, and your country - whichever country that may be ... This great white country of OURS that was founded by whites was also built on the backs of browns, blacks and yellows ALONGSIDE of those of the whites. We are a multi-ethnic nation, and one which has historically been populated by immigrants. However, only LEGAL immigrants get to invoke the rights of citizenship. Despite our multi-ethnic heritage, it MUST be a priority of all citizens to embrace AMERICAN culture, and eschew any allegiance to the culture they left behind. This doesn't mean that you forget where you came from, but it directs us to remember where we ARE! .. but hell, I'm just a spic, what does my opinion mean anyways thanks, Ron Bullshit! I didn't call you a Spic. I don't care if you are or aren't, but I hope that pejorative doesn't define your identity. This is a (mostly) civilized discussion, carried on between two American Citizens (I assume that you're a citizen) regarding significant and volatile issues of our day. (assuming that you ARE a citizen), your opinion means something to me, and I take joy in the idea that we are able to have this discussion. Just because I assert that your priorities on this issue are crossed (and therefore your conclusions are misguided) doesn't mean that the conversation has to devolve into a shit-storm of racial epithets. In fact, this conversation will remain a civil discourse (at least from my end) until the time that I hear that you have renounced your US citizenship in favor of allegiance to a foreign flag or cause. If you do, then you will definitively fall under my previously mentioned, catch-all category of "Fuck 'Em" that encompasses all illegal interlopers. For me to say "fuck 'em" isn't civil, and I acknowledge that fact. However, my civility is dismissed when addressing law-breakers who now have the audacity to DEMAND rights that ought NEVER be extended to them because of the very fact that they broke the law ( .... it's a bitch of a Catch 22 )   ~GryphonX

Quoted: Who called you that? Are you not a legal citizen? <snip>

That reply wasn't addressed to you but to Oldtroop's declaration of being racist "and fuck all the liberal assholes and illegal aliens destroying my white heritage and country. This is a white country founded by whites...if you dont like it go back to your shithole country. " The racial epithat was a sarcastic insert for the white heritage and white country comment.


As far as protecting American interests, we each have our own view in which we must protect. You believe my priorities are crossed where I believe your priorities are skewed

I have not posted anywhere in this topic that special rights be give to law breakers. I am advocating that children who are Americans citizens be treated like any other Americans and this idea of deportation is insane.

thanks,
Ron

Quoted: Quoted: Who called you that? Are you not a legal citizen? <snip> <snip> I have not posted anywhere in this topic that special rights be give to law breakers. I am advocating that children who are Americans citizens be treated like any other Americans and this idea of deportation is insane. thanks, Ron

Fine. Damage done. I cannot fathom REVOKING citizenship for all those who were born here (as much as we may need to ....). But by summarily dismissing the possibility of deportation (since its so "INSANE" ....), and secondly, by NOT affording any special rights, and treating all American citizens equally and like American citizens, there are some nasty consequences that may not sit so well with you:

1) All law-breakers go directly to Federal Prison for breaking Federal law. Foregoing this important step in the justice system establishes a dangerous and potentially intractable precedent. I imagine it would be logistically easier, and significantly cheaper, to simply deport them all and then effectively seal and secure our borders. But for argument's sake, let's be fair and rightfully imprison them all for a significant term prior to deporting them to initiate the 'road to citizenship' process ....... As Felons ........ With US criminal records ....... And at the END of the line ........ (They'll never get in ........... hopefully)
2) Like current US citizens who's parents are imprisoned, the legal citizen offspring of illegal immigrants can find homes with a) legal US citizen family members, or b) the US foster system (as fucked as it may be .... that's the system for US citizens.).



This leads me to a fairly significant point, one which has been largely ignored throughout this entire debate (both in this forum, and at a national level).

No new policies or legislation are needed to address the current plague of illegal immigration. We need only to enforce the laws and policies we currently have on the books!

~GryphonX