I want to share the best, most detailed explanation I have ever received about how to legally purchase & own a silencer in Washington.

I don't know if this qualifies for a "Tack", but is sure does in my opinion.

DarkHelmet provided this info to me, and gave me permission to post it. He is very knowledgeable and a great guy to take the time to share this with me. His only request was to mention that " (He)I am not a lawyer and
I don't play one on TV either. "

Here is the info:

There are really two primary ways to go about getting a suppressor in
Washington.

The private route: Depending on where you live you may or may not be able to
obtain a Chief Law Enforcement Sign Off on your Form 4. I live in Kent, WA.
The local PD and the Sheriff's Office both refused to sign (more on that
later). So, contact your local police or sheriff's office for the
jurisdiction you live in. Yes, it must be a LE Agency that has jurisdiction
over your place of residence. No Snohomish Co. Sheriff sign offs if you live
in King County etc.

Once you have inquired about getting a CLEO sign-off and are reasonably sure
you can get one. Locate the suppressor you wish to buy. It may be at a Class
III dealer here in WA (like Wade's in Bellevue), it may be from an out of
state dealer, or it may be direct from the manufacturer (I recommend
Gemtech). I would avoid buying one from a private party out of state because
then there are 2-$200 taxes involved. One for the person to transfer to a
Class III in their state, then from their Class III to yours here in WA then
another tax from your Class III to you. Most sellers will tack the extra
$200 onto the sale price... ok for machine guns at $10,000 a pop... bad for
suppressors at $299-$600 a pop.

Anyhow, once the item is located then get the serial number information and
your Class III dealers info and fill out the Form 4. Most dealers like
Wade's will help you with the Forms. Then it is simply a matter of getting
the item into their inventory so that you may begin the transfer process.

Form 4 - CLEO sign off, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 passport photos, check to
BATFE for $200 tax.

OK, so you can't get a CLEO signoff (My chief suffers from severe Cranial
Rectumitus). What to do if you still want toys? Well, any legal corporation
may own Class III items. I formed a non-profit corporation in Washington to
register my items to. This bypasses the need for a CLEO sign-off (I don't
know why but I like the way it works) it also bypasses the need for
fingerprints and photos (corporations are faceless entities). This has
worked well for me but I recommend that you check with a lawyer/tax advisor
on the implications that this has. It is a bit more of a headache than going
the private route if you can... but for me it was the only way.

So I now have a corporation that actually owns the NFA items in my
collection. As an officer of the corporation I am entitled to use the assets
of said corporation. As is any other officer of the corporation. This is a
nice feature... for instance... you can make your wife the vice president of
the corporation and then she can use your NFA stuff without your presence
etc.

So, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods of acquiring NFA
items but I highly recommend them. They really are a lot of fun to own.

Some additional resources that will help you in your research:

Subguns.com: www.subguns.com
-- A good source for NFA weapons as well as links to laws and forms for the
ATF

James Bardwell's NFA Firearms FAQ:
www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt
-- This will give you a primer into the NFA world

James Bardwell's ATF Letters and Legal Cases:
www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/law.html
-- More in depth explanation of specific questions posed to the ATF

TitleII.com: www.titleii.com
-- PDF Forms to submit to ATF to begin transfer of NFA firearms.

Hope that helps.
Owen
DarkHelmet

Thats the answer to half the questions here! Thanks for sharing guys!

You are welcome Juell. I hope you enjoyed this info as much as I did. Just remember though...the credit goes to DarkHelmet!

Are there any votes out there for a "tack"?

It was very exciting to finally get a clear and simple answer to a question I have been asking for about 4 months in my area. I was so excited I was jumping around the room like a fool chanting yes, yes, yes!

This board is an awesome asset - and I recommend that anybody that uses it should at sometime consider joining.

I did not join for a long time - and then I figured that all of the money saved, time saved, mistakes avoided and difficult questions answered (at least for me) deserved at least $20.00!

Thanks 1GUNRUNNER! I hope it helps others as it did me! I think there is about to be a lot more non-profit corporations starting up in this State!

Why own something you can't use in this state?

One time at band camp we went to Oregon and had a blast!

2 options, get one and go where you need to go and use it. Dont buy one, stay at home and never get to shoot one.

Your choice.

Quoted: Why own something you can't use in this state?

A valid question & statement KA3B: personally I just like to exercise what rights I have left, collect items that I think our rights may be further imposed upon (but I hope not)in the future, add things to my "SHTF" kit, and as 1GUNRUNNER said...it makes a hell of a good reason for a road trip to Oregon / Idaho!

Drop the family off at an Oregon Mall (save a few bucks on sales tax) - drop some pretend bad guys a "little bit" more quietly at a range!

I had my Form 1 to Make a Suppressor Denied.
I asked why - they said because it was illegal
in WA to have a suppressor.

I gave them "the letters" and they wandered off
and muttered amongst themselves for a while.

They returned and said the local (seattle)
chief counsel said it was still verboten by
his interpretation, but since the AG's letter
(1988) said otherwise, I could submit a letter
stating I understood it was illegal to use in
WA and that I could have it for other purposes
such as displaying it...

Just a little FYI on recent developments...

Thanks for the update mordecai. You might want to ask Dark Helmut about the application to construct?

It may be possible to bypass the sign-offs altogether (Local CLEO) you start a corporation first, and then apply with the BATFE.

Mine was a corp.  My CLEO will do anything but
suppressors.

BATFE/NFA just got a bad opinion from their
legal counsel and wanted my acknowledgement
on paper that I knew better than him considering
the AG's opinion...  Strangest thing I ever
encountered with these people...

Wierd...I am going to do my application in Feburary. I might check in with you to see how it ends up.

Eh, so what's the deal?  You can own a silencer but cannot use it?  wtf over?

www.atg.wa.gov/opinions/1988/opinion_1988_016.html

And we don't whine about it cuz they might re write it for the worse.

I finally had a few verbals with them about
my application.  It seems she wanted "cover"
to go over their Seattle-local counsel's head.

If I provided a Letter of Acknowledgement
stating I understood the AG's interpretation,
they'd send it out.  I did it - and so did they.

Received it a few weeks ago.
Thankfully, I live close enough to the state
line to use it when I like.

Is an LLC treated the same way as a Corp. in this case?  The reason I'm asking is that I already have an LLC.  Oh one more thing, if you purchase the silencer using a Corp. and that Corp. is later dissolved, what happens to the silencer?  I assume it goes bye-bye.  For some very odd reason, I feel the need to buy a silencer, just "because".  Are the threads standard?  Like, if I wanted to get a threaded barrel for my 96FS for display purposes only, would I have to get a specific silencer to screw on for display purposes only or what... Thanks for the info guys.  I assume I could ask these questions down at Wade's but most of the time I feel like jumping off a cliff after talking to somebody behind the counter.

but isnt there a federal law that states a nfa item cant leave the state that your in. for instance. if you live in oregon and you have paid the tax stamp on your mac-10 subgun and you go to idaho isnt that illegal? or was i just missinformed again, hehe.

so, since I already have my business lic., I just need to have my business incorporated and I can legally get the weapons that I would like to purchase without all the BS you have to go through via local law enforcement?  

If I misunderstand this, please correct where I'm wrong.  

I'm in Kent as well.

Quoted: but isnt there a federal law that states a nfa item cant leave the state that your in. for instance. if you live in oregon and you have paid the tax stamp on your mac-10 subgun and you go to idaho isnt that illegal? or was i just missinformed again, hehe.

i think all you have to  do is fill out some form stating where you are going and when you are going. as long as it is legal to have your NFA in the place you are going then you are A-OK

ETA: i that only applies to full-autos. suppressors you don't have to inform anyone that you are leaving your state with them.................i think......

Anybody do this in Redmond?  Technically, I'm in unincorporated King County -- do I need to have the Sheriff do the CLEO signoff?

BoB

Quoted: Quoted: but isnt there a federal law that states a nfa item cant leave the state that your in. for instance. if you live in oregon and you have paid the tax stamp on your mac-10 subgun and you go to idaho isnt that illegal? or was i just missinformed again, hehe. i think all you have to  do is fill out some form stating where you are going and when you are going. as long as it is legal to have your NFA in the place you are going then you are A-OK ETA: i that only applies to full-autos. suppressors you don't have to inform anyone that you are leaving your state with them.................i think......

This was covered a while back, but suppressors are OK to tavel w/ to another legal state, so not a problem going to OR.

You can travel w/suppressors and AOW's without paperwork.

You must file for a 5320.20 (Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain NFA Firearms) - can be done by fax - for everything else (MG, DD, SBR, SBS, etc.)

Redmond area - Wade's is a SOT/FFL - there's one in Lynnwood and one in Seattle and one in Bellevue I know of.  Sheriff will be your sign-off if you're in the county.  Good luck.

Any business must be incorporated to be elligible (such as LLC).  Should the corporation dissolve, the item must be transferred out (dealer or new elligible owner) before it becomes contraband.

Quoted: You can travel w/suppressors and AOW's without paperwork. You must file for a 5320.20 (Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain NFA Firearms) - can be done by fax - for everything else (MG, DD, SBR, SBS, etc.) Redmond area - Wade's is a SOT/FFL - there's one in Lynnwood and one in Seattle and one in Bellevue I know of.  Sheriff will be your sign-off if you're in the county.  Good luck. Any business must be incorporated to be elligible (such as LLC).  Should the corporation dissolve, the item must be transferred out (dealer or new elligible owner) before it becomes contraband.

Does the KC sheriff sign off? or should I expect problems?

BoB

Quoted: Redmond area - Wade's is a SOT/FFL - there's one in Lynnwood and one in Seattle and one in Bellevue I know of.  Sheriff will be your sign-off if you're in the county.  Good luck.

I need to have some paperwork signed to bring some of my stuff from GA.   Who (Sheriff)/where in Lynwood?  
Thanks!

FYI

Vancouver Sheriff (Garry Lucas)

Called me personally and said he would sign my forms. (He informed me that they were illegal to use, but not to own, and after I let him know that I was "A collector of Firearms," and carried a 03 Collectors FFL, he said, "sure no problem just bring down the forms.")

I dropped two copies of Form 4 off last tuesday and I plan on calling this coming tuesday to check the status.

(I consider this a victory for WA state!) +1 to the suppressor count.

-Jason

Quoted: FYI Vancouver Sheriff (Garry Lucas) Called me personally and said he would sign my forms. (He informed me that they were illegal to use, but not to own, and after I let him know that I was "A collector of Firearms," and carried a 03 Collectors FFL, he said, "sure no problem just bring down the forms.") I dropped two copies of Form 4 off last tuesday and I plan on calling this coming tuesday to check the status. (I consider this a victory for WA state!) +1 to the suppressor count. -Jason

Good deal.

I would like to hear of other success stories getting CLEO Signoffs, which Co, Municipality, City, etc, how it went, etc.

Maybe we could turn this thread into a list of Cities/Counties that have Signing CLEO's (and a list of those that will NOT sign as well).

-U-