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Posted: 5/9/2009 2:59:12 AM EDT
[#1]
There were to men in the bathroom when I entered.
 i dont trust people with guns who dont know the difference between to and two
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Posted: 5/9/2009 8:50:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
There were to men in the bathroom when I entered.
i dont trust people with guns who dont know the difference between to and twoI'm thinking it was a typo. I don't trust people who don't capitalize "I" or use apostrophes in their contractions. 
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Posted: 5/10/2009 8:50:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA!
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Posted: 5/10/2009 6:35:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! Let me guess, you're one of the sheep that think practicing a legal right, one guaranteed by the 2nd amendment, is somehow wrong because it scares people? I don't OC normally but I also don't criticize those that do choose to practice that particular right. People like you scare me, you're no better than the Fudd that thinks bolt action rifles are all the 2nd amendment really guarantees. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:36:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There were to men in the bathroom when I entered.
i dont trust people with guns who dont know the difference between to and twoI'm thinking it was a typo. I don't trust people who don't capitalize "I" or use apostrophes in their contractions. Ok, that's funny. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:36:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! Let me guess, you're one of the sheep that think practicing a legal right, one guaranteed by the 2nd amendment, is somehow wrong because it scares people? I don't OC normally but I also don't criticize those that do choose to practice that particular right. People like you scare me, you're no better than the Fudd that thinks bolt action rifles are all the 2nd amendment really guarantees. I support open carry, even though I think it makes absolutely ZERO sense from a tactics perspective and would never do so myself. That said, I don't think it's "wrong" because it scares people... I think it's wrong when groups (like PAFOA) use open carry as a LEO baiting tool and throw down the gauntlet to LE and the general public by saying, "SCREW YOU, IT'S LEGAL!" Cause you know what? With attitudes like that, it won't be legal for long. That's not how we win people over onto our side, that's how we make more enemies. Take for example this movie theater - like it or not, the person that owns that property has rights too, and he's going to make a business decision to ban firearms completely from his property. That business decision will impact not just the open carrying folks, but guys like me who carry concealed. Now instead of it being a non-issue because no sign was posted, I'm technically trespassing against the property owner's wishes if I choose to carry my concealed firearm. THAT is what pisses me off. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 12:21:22 PM EDT
[#7]
In this case, the main office management of the theater chain sounds like they came around and fully support the guy and open carry policy.
"With attitudes like that, it won't be legal for long. That's not how we win people over onto our side, that's how we make more enemies."
Serious question here - not argument-baiting: So, if your position is that open carrying is not the way to win over people to understand that OC is our God-given birth right - not granted by the Constitution or the Government, but simply acknowledged by the Constitution as a right that supersedes any restriction or law our government can pass, then how would you educate the masses and the business owners? Hand them a calling card or something? In the process of interacting with the public and business owners, do so while concealed-carrying or while being unarmed so as to not display the courage of your convictions? I don't open carry, but my choice has nothing to do with a concern that by so doing I might threaten people or rile them and LEO to the point that there could be a call to render OC illegal. My choice is twofold. I consider it a tactical disadvantage, in that the saved time of bringing my gun on target would be negated by the loss of any element of surprise. I also prefer not to have to deal with situations like the OC practitioner had in the theater. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 1:21:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: In this case, the main office management of the theater chain sounds like they came around and fully support the guy and open carry policy. "With attitudes like that, it won't be legal for long. That's not how we win people over onto our side, that's how we make more enemies." Serious question here - not argument-baiting: So, if your position is that open carrying is not the way to win over people to understand that OC is our God-given birth right - not granted by the Constitution or the Government, but simply acknowledged by the Constitution as a right that supersedes any restriction or law our government can pass, then how would you educate the masses and the business owners? Hand them a calling card or something? In the process of interacting with the public and business owners, do so while concealed-carrying or while being unarmed so as to not display the courage of your convictions? I don't open carry, but my choice has nothing to do with a concern that by so doing I might threaten people or rile them and LEO to the point that there could be a call to render OC illegal. My choice is twofold. I consider it a tactical disadvantage, in that the saved time of bringing my gun on target would be negated by the loss of any element of surprise. I also prefer not to have to deal with situations like the OC practitioner had in the theater. Fair questions, and frankly, I don't know the answer. What I do know is at least 3 people in PA who were "middle of the road" on the guns before who are now devoting their time and money to an anti-gun group and they were pushed by open carry. I personally know one individual in PA who started open carrying because of PAFOA and how "cool" it is to carry a gun around. He's never taken a single handgun course and can't spell the word retention. How many other open carry folks have taken a retention course? All of the above mentioned people are what scares me. I have not seen open carrying (as an activist movement) doing positive things, I've only seen it do negative things. Working with a lot of businesses, I can tell you that even though they may not care about the issue at face value, when pressed, many will cave to public concern over firearms even though it's not well founded. Again, a personal example, I know of one business owner whose attorneys demanded that he put up "no guns" signs after a manager vs. customer incident with open carry. The potential liability issue is a big one in their minds. Let it be known that I'm a PA native and I lived in a TRULY open-carry state for several years (Virginia) and I've seen the issue and the activism in many different forms. The more populated the area, the harder it is. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 1:32:58 PM EDT
[#9]
A fair response on your part. Thank you.
I am still not persuaded by your position that "we better not do this legal thing ourselves even though we would like to see it more broadly understood by everyone that it is our right to do so." However, I respect your right to your opinion and appreciate the civil manner we have conducted the discussion. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 5:51:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I support open carry, even though I think it makes absolutely ZERO sense from a tactics perspective and would never do so myself. That said, I don't think it's "wrong" because it scares people... I think it's wrong when groups (like PAFOA) use open carry as a LEO baiting tool and throw down the gauntlet to LE and the general public by saying, "SCREW YOU, IT'S LEGAL!" Cause you know what? With attitudes like that, it won't be legal for long. That's not how we win people over onto our side, that's how we make more enemies. Take for example this movie theater - like it or not, the person that owns that property has rights too, and he's going to make a business decision to ban firearms completely from his property. That business decision will impact not just the open carrying folks, but guys like me who carry concealed. Now instead of it being a non-issue because no sign was posted, I'm technically trespassing against the property owner's wishes if I choose to carry my concealed firearm. THAT is what pisses me off. You are judging an entire web community based on what you perceive to be the intent of a segment of its members? That is as bad as the people over there that badmouth ARFCOM because there are so many arrogant Colt elitist's here. The bottom line is that if there are no signs posted then not even a trespassing law was broken. If an individual owns a firearm and wishes to carry it openly that is his or her right. If you consider that "baiting" the LEO then that's your right, but perhaps some LEO's need to be "baited" in order to become better educated since it appears as though a lot of them have no desire to take the initiative to do so on their own. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:18:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: A fair response on your part. Thank you. I am still not persuaded by your position that "we better not do this legal thing ourselves even though we would like to see it more broadly understood by everyone that it is our right to do so." However, I respect your right to your opinion and appreciate the civil manner we have conducted the discussion. Ditto. I guess in my mind, it's like buttsex being legal. I don't need to see someone bang out their wife's balloon knot in front of me to show me that it's legal and give the general public a better understanding. It's reasonable to believe that some people are going to run away screaming and by virtue of their first impressions, decide that they are against it based on that experience & demonstration. On the other hand, letting people know that you do it and it's okay, safe and enjoyable can be done in a lot of different ways and to great effect without the drama. That said, there are definitely venues where one can do it in public... yeah, I need some more sleep to come up with better examples. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:25:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: You are judging an entire web community based on what you perceive to be the intent of a segment of its members? That is as bad as the people over there that badmouth ARFCOM because there are so many arrogant Colt elitist's here. The bottom line is that if there are no signs posted then not even a trespassing law was broken. If an individual owns a firearm and wishes to carry it openly that is his or her right. If you consider that "baiting" the LEO then that's your right, but perhaps some LEO's need to be "baited" in order to become better educated since it appears as though a lot of them have no desire to take the initiative to do so on their own. #1 - There's nothing incorrect about Colt being the best, and pushing the fact that Colt, LMT & DD are top tier rifles is not a bad thing. It's educating the masses. If arrogance is interpreted by ignorant people who think that their DPMS or Doublestar rifle is as good as a 6920 or a Defender, well, that my friend is not arrogance. It's denial. #2 - We will have to agree to disagree. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:26:17 PM EDT
[#13]
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Originally Posted By rgaper
Fair questions, and frankly, I don't know the answer. What I do know is at least 3 people in PA who were "middle of the road" on the guns before who are now devoting their time and money to an anti-gun group and they were pushed by open carry. they would have been pushed with CC as well, a hopliphobe is a hopliphobe I personally know one individual in PA who started open carrying because of PAFOA and how "cool" it is to carry a gun around. He's never taken a single handgun course and can't spell the word retention. How many other open carry folks have taken a retention course? Have you? how many that CC have taken Retention training, i bet more people that OC have taken retention training than those who CC. All of the above mentioned people are what scares me. I have not seen open carrying (as an activist movement) doing positive things, I've only seen it do negative things.please elaborate Working with a lot of businesses, I can tell you that even though they may not care about the issue at face value, when pressed, many will cave to public concern over firearms even though it's not well founded. Again, a personal example, I know of one business owner whose attorneys demanded that he put up "no guns" signs after a manager vs. customer incident with open carry. The potential liability issue is a big one in their minds. Let it be known that I'm a PA native and I lived in a TRULY open-carry state for several years (Virginia) and I've seen the issue and the activism in many different forms. The more populated the area, the harder it is. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:30:16 PM EDT
[#14]
I find this interesting. You condemn Open Carrying and decry the hunters and shot gunners that think the EBR's should be banned.
So, the 2nd Amendment is discretionary at least they are according to some comments here. In Pennsylvania as well as Virginia, West Virginia, and North Carolina Open Carry is legal. In the United Sates as well as the individual states the law tells us what we can't do. If Open Carry is not prohibited by law it is legal. I have been OC’ing for 20+ years in Pa, WVa, Va, and NC and they had no reason to detain the guy in State College Pa for the mere possession of a firearm which has been well settled law in Commonwealth vs Hawkins and Commonwealth vs Ortiz. The Terry stop was clearly in violation of the gentleman’s 4th Amendment Rights. An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:46:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Originally Posted By rgaper Fair questions, and frankly, I don't know the answer. What I do know is at least 3 people in PA who were "middle of the road" on the guns before who are now devoting their time and money to an anti-gun group and they were pushed by open carry. they would have been pushed with CC as well, a hopliphobe is a hopliphobe No, they were influenced by a well-publicized situation where an open carry activist brought a firearm to an event. All 3 have hunters in their immediate family and I've shot recreationally with one of them in the last few years. I know for a fact that 2 of them never had an issue with CCW. I personally know one individual in PA who started open carrying because of PAFOA and how "cool" it is to carry a gun around. He's never taken a single handgun course and can't spell the word retention. How many other open carry folks have taken a retention course? Have you? how many that CC have taken Retention training, i bet more people that OC have taken retention training than those who CC. What do you want to bet on? A box of more rhetorical questions? Yes, in fact I have taken a handgun retention course, and it was the very first course I took after I got my PA LTCF when I turned 21. I don't think enough people take it that seriously. Buying a $14 Uncle Mike's holster and a box of hollowpoint ammunition is SOP for a lot of people the day after they get their permit. Carrying open makes every issue that much more critical and requires much more due diligence on the part of the individual.All of the above mentioned people are what scares me. I have not seen open carrying (as an activist movement) doing positive things, I've only seen it do negative things. please elaborate In short, bad press, counter-activism (see above) and "no guns" signs go up. I don't see barriers being broken down. Most of the "here's how my open carry day went" AARs have good and bad news. All of the bad experiences from concealed carry news is... uhhh... concealed I guess? |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:53:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I find this interesting. You condemn Open Carrying and decry the hunters and shot gunners that think the EBR's should be banned. So, the 2nd Amendment is discretionary at least they are according to some comments here. In Pennsylvania as well as Virginia, West Virginia, and North Carolina Open Carry is legal. In the United Sates as well as the individual states the law tells us what we can't do. If Open Carry is not prohibited by law it is legal. I have been OC’ing for 20+ years in Pa, WVa, Va, and NC and they had no reason to detain the guy in State College Pa for the mere possession of a firearm which has been well settled law in Commonwealth vs Hawkins and Commonwealth vs Ortiz. The Terry stop was clearly in violation of the gentleman’s 4th Amendment Rights. An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan Ed, please step out of your meth lab for a few minutes and take a deep breath of fresh air before typing. I believe that I started my earlier post with "I support open carry." Let me know where I condemned open carry or questioned its legality. Additionally, please let me know where I spoke against hunters, shotgunners, benchrest shooters, archers, blackpowder shooters, tomahawk throwers, cowboy action or any of the other shooting sports. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 6:54:57 PM EDT
[#17]
As I said, arrogance. I carried a COLT and bet my life on it for several months in 1990 - 1991........are they good? Sure, are they the be all and end all of AR rifles? Debatable.
As for your retention arguments, did you take a defensive drivers course when you got your license to drive? Have you ever sped? If so have you taken a high performance driving course? The point being that one can always find fault with someone else's logic in an argument. You don't like OC and that's your right, but don't confuse your dislike for something with whether doing so is moral or even advisable because they don't always match up. I mean if it were up to me I'd ban every single person who came on this website and called people ignorant or worse because they didn't agree with the Colt crowd..........but that wouldn't be right now would it? Edit: So much for your ability to carry on a conversation without a personal attack.............care to show some proof that Ed is in fact a Meth Lab owner or operator? |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:09:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! If I'm not mistaken this was your quote. If this does come about the business owner has a choice to turn away our $ or modify their policies. So far we have gotten quite a few businesses to change their policies. You sound like the typical CC'er saying "They will ruin it for everyone" An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan No I don't have a Meth Lab, not enough room on my farm for that and weed LMAO ––- Right? RenegadePhoenix |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:12:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: As I said, arrogance. I carried a COLT and bet my life on it for several months in 1990 - 1991........are they good? Sure, are they the be all and end all of AR rifles? Debatable. As for your retention arguments, did you take a defensive drivers course when you got your license to drive? Have you ever sped? If so have you taken a high performance driving course? The point being that one can always find fault with someone else's logic in an argument. You don't like OC and that's your right, but don't confuse your dislike for something with whether doing so is moral or even advisable because they don't always match up. I mean if it were up to me I'd ban every single person who came on this website and called people ignorant or worse because they didn't agree with the Colt crowd..........but that wouldn't be right now would it? Edit: So much for your ability to carry on a conversation without a personal attack.............care to show some proof that Ed is in fact a Meth Lab owner or operator? Seriously....... take a chill pill man, don't take the electronification words on the Googlemachine so seriously. I was clearly kidding about the meth lab comment. (BTW, I'm strangely intrigued that you capitalized Meth Lab in your post) I could have said, sex dungeon, or tinfoil covered house or magic mushroom farm. The point was that he posted a whole bunch of stuff out of thin air that had zero grounding in fact. Did ya see that? Based on that, I think it was okay for me to apply some sarcasm about the wild nature of his post. Oh, and before I sign off for sleepytime, YES, I did take a defensive driving course before I got my driver's license, though I can't take the credit for that decision at age 17. But no, I never speed... Officer. Except when I'm on coke and/or have a dead hooker in my trunk. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:15:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! If I'm not mistaken this was your quote. If this does come about the business owner has a choice to turn away our $ or modify their policies. So far we have gotten quite a few businesses to change their policies. You sound like the typical CC'er saying "They will ruin it for everyone" An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan No I don't have a Meth Lab, not enough room on my farm for that and weed LMAO ––- Right? RenegadePhoenix I see where you could have gotten that from. Again, I support open carry. I disagree with many of PAFOA's tactics when it comes to open carry activism. mmmmm...mmmmm...mmmm....... gotta start selling that stuff on the new EE. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:22:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! If I'm not mistaken this was your quote. If this does come about the business owner has a choice to turn away our $ or modify their policies. So far we have gotten quite a few businesses to change their policies. You sound like the typical CC'er saying "They will ruin it for everyone" An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan No I don't have a Meth Lab, not enough room on my farm for that and weed LMAO ––- Right? RenegadePhoenix I see where you could have gotten that from. Again, I support open carry. I disagree with many of PAFOA's tactics when it comes to open carry activism. mmmmm...mmmmm...mmmm....... gotta start selling that stuff on the new EE.
You can come by and get some in June and July but I usually bail it to feed to the cows. I could also us some help during harvest time unloading the wagons and stacking the bales in the barn. Alfalfa and clover usually come out about 75lbs a bale An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:50:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! If I'm not mistaken this was your quote. If this does come about the business owner has a choice to turn away our $ or modify their policies. So far we have gotten quite a few businesses to change their policies. You sound like the typical CC'er saying "They will ruin it for everyone" An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan No I don't have a Meth Lab, not enough room on my farm for that and weed LMAO ––- Right? RenegadePhoenix hardly enough room for your fire power, that's a tough choice there Ed, Meth or Firearms |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 7:56:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome news! A movie theater that didn't have a "no guns" sign posted that will surely have one by next weekend! Yay! Another job well done PAFOA! Let me guess, you're one of the sheep that think practicing a legal right, one guaranteed by the 2nd amendment, is somehow wrong because it scares people? I don't OC normally but I also don't criticize those that do choose to practice that particular right. People like you scare me, you're no better than the Fudd that thinks bolt action rifles are all the 2nd amendment really guarantees. I support open carry, even though I think it makes absolutely ZERO sense from a tactics perspective and would never do so myself. That said, I don't think it's "wrong" because it scares people... I think it's wrong when groups (like PAFOA) use open carry as a LEO baiting tool and throw down the gauntlet to LE and the general public by saying, "SCREW YOU, IT'S LEGAL!" Cause you know what? With attitudes like that, it won't be legal for long. That's not how we win people over onto our side, that's how we make more enemies. Take for example this movie theater - like it or not, the person that owns that property has rights too, and he's going to make a business decision to ban firearms completely from his property. That business decision will impact not just the open carrying folks, but guys like me who carry concealed. Now instead of it being a non-issue because no sign was posted, I'm technically trespassing against the property owner's wishes if I choose to carry my concealed firearm. THAT is what pisses me off. I think your crystal ball was made on a Friday afternoon by a retarded swammi...you missed the update posted a couple of days ago I take it. "UPDATE: After speaking with the General Manager at the Premier 12 Theater at 3:20PM this afternoon I was told that I and other law abiding citizens were welcome in the Theater. There was not a company policy up to this point because I was the first person to have openly carried (who was seen OC) in one of their buildings. The General Manager called corporate and this was the decision that came down." But what you just said is a common fear, except it doesn't really bear out that way. You cannot retain a right by failing to exercise it. of course, you know this, I just think you have a little self-centered anxiety to get over before these kinds of stories really sit well with you. In any event, that forum is as good as I think you'll find if you're looking for intelligent debate. ARF.com is a treasure trove of information, which I why I read way more than post, but to really criticize the forum as a whole based your disagreement with how a small minority of members conducts themselves or their "Activism" is a shame. If you lived in PA, maybe you'd have actually given it a chance? Cheers. |
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Posted: 5/11/2009 8:10:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Originally Posted By rgaper
Fair questions, and frankly, I don't know the answer. What I do know is at least 3 people in PA who were "middle of the road" on the guns before who are now devoting their time and money to an anti-gun group and they were pushed by open carry. they would have been pushed with CC as well, a hopliphobe is a hopliphobe No, they were influenced by a well-publicized situation where an open carry activist brought a firearm to an event. All 3 have hunters in their immediate family and I've shot recreationally with one of them in the last few years. I know for a fact that 2 of them never had an issue with CCW. so they think that a person exercising their right is a good reason to keep everyone from having the same rights. would they disarm that person in their immediate family? take away that persons rights? i doubt it. I personally know one individual in PA who started open carrying because of PAFOA and how "cool" it is to carry a gun around. He's never taken a single handgun course and can't spell the word retention. How many other open carry folks have taken a retention course? Have you? how many that CC have taken Retention training, i bet more people that OC have taken retention training than those who CC. What do you want to bet on? A box of more rhetorical questions? Yes, in fact I have taken a handgun retention course, and it was the very first course I took after I got my PA LTCF when I turned 21. I don't think enough people take it that seriously. Buying a $14 Uncle Mike's holster and a box of hollowpoint ammunition is SOP for a lot of people the day after they get their permit. Carrying open makes every issue that much more critical and requires much more due diligence on the part of the individual.
That's great that you took a retention class, but the sad fact is most people who CC won't take even a basic firearms course before putting their firearm in an IWB holster and heading out into the great unknown. for those of us who OC (including me) more often than not have taken quite a few courses in Retention, basic firearms, close quarters engagement, and situational awareness. i haven't talked to a single OCer yet who hasn't had some form of profesional firearms training All of the above mentioned people are what scares me. I have not seen open carrying (as an activist movement) doing positive things, I've only seen it do negative things. please elaborate In short, bad press, counter-activism (see above) and "no guns" signs go up. I don't see barriers being broken down. Most of the "here's how my open carry day went" AARs have good and bad news. All of the bad experiences from concealed carry news is... uhhh... concealed I guess? i support everyone who carries a firearm wether it be Concealed Carry or Open Carry. i'll continue to OC, you continue to CC. i have educated more than my fair share of people and LEO on OC, and PA firearms laws. over a year of OC and not one negative encounter with LEO. as for the CC news being concealed, you won't hear about it same with a good OC story. you only hear about the bad ones. |
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Posted: 5/12/2009 2:50:20 AM EDT
[#25]
I agree...it is unfair to criticize an entire forum over one topic that you don't agree with. PAFOA is one of the best mediums in PA for organizing lawful gun owners into a strong organization that can stand up for our gun rights no matter who the opponent may be! I, for one, can also tell you that Ed has knocked on more doors and battled more antigun congressmen than probably most of you guys combined. He is willing to stand up for your rights even if you are not.
But I digress...PA is definitely one of the front lines in the antigun battle. Just look at our political role call. Rendell, Nutter and others are Hell bent on taking every gun in PA from lawful owners and shoving them straight up the ass of every Pennsylvanian that is still clinging to their guns and religion! PA is under attack from these guys and every bit of gun education helps. When people see that OC is legal and common folk calmly do it...they become more comfortable with guns. When over zealous LEO make a scene of it, it does tend to reflect the opposite opinion and becomes an unwanted response. But that small risk is outweighed by the benefit that every good OC log delivers to the uninformed public.! The PAFOA helps everyone organize their efforts and also helps those efforts become well constructed and effective. Besides the political clout, PAFOA is also a great place to find information about different guns, ammo and accessories as well as a good way to create social networking by finding local shoots and other events to attend. In summary, you are entitled to your opinion, but to administer it with scattergun accuracy is not deserving of such a great organization. |
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Posted: 5/12/2009 3:41:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: The PAFOA helps everyone organize their efforts and also helps those efforts become well constructed and effective. Besides the political clout, PAFOA is also a great place to find information about different guns, ammo and accessories as well as a good way to create social networking by finding local shoots and other events to attend. In summary, you are entitled to your opinion, but to administer it with scattergun accuracy is not deserving of such a great organization. I'm "picking on" PAFOA because you don't see the same type of organized, in your face open carry tactics perpetuated by any other group. I'm sure there are benefits over there and I'm sure there are some great opportunies for some of you, but as an outsider, I can tell you that when most people think of PAFOA, they think of open carry activism. |
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Posted: 5/12/2009 7:21:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The PAFOA helps everyone organize their efforts and also helps those efforts become well constructed and effective. Besides the political clout, PAFOA is also a great place to find information about different guns, ammo and accessories as well as a good way to create social networking by finding local shoots and other events to attend. In summary, you are entitled to your opinion, but to administer it with scattergun accuracy is not deserving of such a great organization. I'm "picking on" PAFOA because you don't see the same type of organized, in your face open carry tactics perpetuated by any other group. I'm sure there are benefits over there and I'm sure there are some great opportunies for some of you, but as an outsider, I can tell you that when most people think of PAFOA, they think of open carry activism. You better look again rgaper. Try opencarry.org as well as do a google search for Open Carry in pick your state, Georga, Michigan, Minisota, Deleware, and West Virginia have sites that use the same tatics. Deleware OC site http://www.deloc.org/deloc/forums/ WVa OC Site http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum56/ Do a serach they are easy to find An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan |
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Posted: 5/12/2009 7:57:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The PAFOA helps everyone organize their efforts and also helps those efforts become well constructed and effective. Besides the political clout, PAFOA is also a great place to find information about different guns, ammo and accessories as well as a good way to create social networking by finding local shoots and other events to attend. In summary, you are entitled to your opinion, but to administer it with scattergun accuracy is not deserving of such a great organization. I'm "picking on" PAFOA because you don't see the same type of organized, in your face open carry tactics perpetuated by any other group. I'm sure there are benefits over there and I'm sure there are some great opportunies for some of you, but as an outsider, I can tell you that when most people think of PAFOA, they think of open carry activism. You better look again rgaper. Try opencarry.org as well as do a google search for Open Carry in pick your state, Georga, Michigan, Minisota, Deleware, and West Virginia have sites that use the same tatics. An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan I'll take you at your word, unless there's something to fap to over there. |
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Posted: 5/13/2009 4:21:57 PM EDT
[#29]
PAFOA is full of dem terrists! GET 'EM!
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Posted: 5/13/2009 4:42:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
PAFOA is full of dem terrists! GET 'EM! I see your tolling this board also Aran LMAO How you been? An OC Activist and 1 of the 3% Ed Stephan |
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Posted: 5/13/2009 7:20:35 PM EDT
[#31]
tag
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Posted: 5/13/2009 8:47:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Gentlemen, just a reminder: As we disagree, let's be civil to each other.
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Posted: 5/13/2009 11:44:10 PM EDT
[#33]
i oc cuz it makes liberals cry.fuck em.
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Posted: 5/14/2009 8:23:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I think it's wrong when groups (like PAFOA) use open carry as a LEO baiting tool and throw down the gauntlet to LE and the general public by saying, "SCREW YOU, IT'S LEGAL!"[/span] Here's the bottom line: Everybody should obey the law. Cops don't have to like the law any more than the crack dealer on the street corner. They just have to obey it. If the law doesn't prohibit open carry, they have a choice, obey the law or not. If they choose to disobey the law by unlawfully harassing somebody for open carrying, they should be grownups and accept the consequences for their criminal acts. It's as simple as that. You can have the police obey the law or not. I'm from Chicago, where "or not" is SOP. Trust me, you won't like that. |
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