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Posted: 7/29/2016 11:56:56 AM EDT
[#1]
http://franklin-armory.myshopify.com/collections/10-round-magazines/products/franklin-armory-10-round-dfm
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Posted: 7/29/2016 11:59:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Franklin Armory™ patented, 10 round, DFM™
Magazine for use in restrictive jurisdictions such as California, Connecticut, and even New York State! Easily Converts Any AR into a 10 Round, Fixed Magazine Design. Requires Disassembly of the Action to Remove the Magazine. No Permanent Alterations Required Suitable for use with Rifles Featuring Banned Features. California Compliant! Connecticut Compliant! New York Safe Act Compliant! Limiting Tabs Prevent Release Through the Bottom of Magazine Well. Can only be Removed from the Top when the Upper is Tilted out of the way! Available as an Accessory or Installed in Brand New Franklin ArmoryTM Firearms. Installation will require removing and reinstalling your bolt catch. We also offer a modified bolt catch for use in CA and CT. Modified Bolt Catch for DFM Magazine FRANKLIN ARMORY™ 10 ROUND DFM™ $24.99 |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:26:32 PM EDT
[#3]
When you remove the magazine to reload it, will the rifle accept an unmodified magazine?
It seems a modified magazine does not modify the function of the firearm. I wouldn't go with it unless there is some serious vetting first. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:51:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you remove the magazine to reload it, will the rifle accept an unmodified magazine? It seems a modified magazine does not modify the function of the firearm. I wouldn't go with it unless there is some serious vetting first. You open the gun and load from the top |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 7:43:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://franklin-armory.myshopify.com/collections/10-round-magazines/products/franklin-armory-10-round-dfm Brilliant design and is removable for cleaning. Better than the Fab-10 Now, I'd like to get my grandfathered 30-rd magazines back  |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 11:25:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now, I'd like to get my grandfathered 30-rd magazines back You and me both bro, you and me both. Any chance of that happening? I've heard nothing. |
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Posted: 7/30/2016 1:06:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You open the gun and load from the top Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When you remove the magazine to reload it, will the rifle accept an unmodified magazine? It seems a modified magazine does not modify the function of the firearm. I wouldn't go with it unless there is some serious vetting first. You open the gun and load from the top Is there a mechanism to prevent the magazine from being removed? If the magazine is removed, is there anything to prevent a regular magazine from being inserted? Basically: the magazine is modified, not the rifle, correct? Doesn't pass the smell test, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer versed in California shenanigans. Nice idea though. |
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Posted: 7/30/2016 2:05:20 AM EDT
[#8]
https://youtu.be/XedaFH6pC1o
NEW BULLET BUTTON |
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Posted: 7/30/2016 3:44:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://youtu.be/XedaFH6pC1o NEW BULLET BUTTON Which doesn't require modification to the magazine, thus rendering this thread's original product moot? |
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Posted: 7/30/2016 9:29:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a mechanism to prevent the magazine from being removed? If the magazine is removed, is there anything to prevent a regular magazine from being inserted? Basically: the magazine is modified, not the rifle, correct? Doesn't pass the smell test, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer versed in California shenanigans. Nice idea though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When you remove the magazine to reload it, will the rifle accept an unmodified magazine? It seems a modified magazine does not modify the function of the firearm. I wouldn't go with it unless there is some serious vetting first. You open the gun and load from the top Is there a mechanism to prevent the magazine from being removed? If the magazine is removed, is there anything to prevent a regular magazine from being inserted? Basically: the magazine is modified, not the rifle, correct? Doesn't pass the smell test, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer versed in California shenanigans. Nice idea though. Watching the video the "fixed" magazine is loaded from the top once the action is open. He pushed the mag release and pulled on the mag but it didn't come out. But yeah, looks like if you remove the magazine from the top you can just insert a mag into the magwell. |
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Posted: 7/30/2016 10:40:39 PM EDT
[#11]
What most of you are missing is that once the upper is open, the firearm is disassembled as far as the law is concerned in the same sense that the BB Reloaded forces you to disassemble the rifle to remove the magazine. This mag meets the letter of the law and would be legal. Closing the upper on an unmodified lower without one of these magazines in place would be the illegal act of assembling an assault weapon. This follows the same principles as the original Prince50 mag locks that used a set screw to prevent the mag release from being depressed - the item follows the letter of the law but improper assembling (ie backing out the set screw with the upper in place on the Prince50 or closing the upper without this new mag in place) is the illegal action.
It wouldn't be the ideal method for my preferences but it does work. You also have to keep in mind that the more solutions like this, and the more arbitrary redefining that is done, the better chances we have of gettings these laws removed completely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagueness_doctrine |
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Posted: 7/31/2016 12:51:58 PM EDT
[#12]
A thought -
All it takes to comply is a simple nut. A Nylock nut is nice because it won't work loose. You replace the mag release button with a nut and you're done - the mag will not be removable. Anything other than that is just a way to separate you from your money. |
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Posted: 7/31/2016 8:47:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Are we still limited to 10 rounds on a "fixed" magazine?
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Posted: 7/31/2016 9:54:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are we still limited to 10 rounds on a "fixed" magazine? |
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Posted: 8/1/2016 7:45:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We sure are. There was an additional law created to ban magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, even prebans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are we still limited to 10 rounds on a "fixed" magazine? Not just that, but a hi-cap fixed mag turns a semi-auto rifle into an assault weapon. |
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Posted: 8/5/2016 9:25:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKatEfBKQE0 I like the idea but does the rifle need a different bolt stop also? |
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Posted: 8/6/2016 12:24:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the idea but does the rifle need a different bolt stop also? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKatEfBKQE0 I like the idea but does the rifle need a different bolt stop also? I don't know. |
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Posted: 8/6/2016 12:26:39 AM EDT
[#18]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKP5Z0FZ-Q
Here's the answer. |
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Posted: 8/6/2016 12:31:01 AM EDT
[#19]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhw04balEU
Franklin Armory; CA, CT, NY compliant DFM Magazine and Bolt Catch installation video. On sale at www.franklinarmory.com. |
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Posted: 8/6/2016 12:57:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Meh, I'll do the patriot button before this one. At least I can use my own mags.
I hate this bullshit. |
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Posted: 8/6/2016 8:18:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I'll do the patriot button before this one. At least I can use my own mags. I hate this bullshit. With a pair of pliers the tabs could be bent , do it yourself legal mags . |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 3:48:56 PM EDT
[#22]
I have thought about this, too. Or even removing the bullet button, insert a piece of drip irrigation line that's trimmed, and then reinsert the bullet button. Then it wont move.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A thought - All it takes to comply is a simple nut. A Nylock nut is nice because it won't work loose. You replace the mag release button with a nut and you're done - the mag will not be removable. Anything other than that is just a way to separate you from your money. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 1:17:56 AM EDT
[#23]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp9Q99CKHU4
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Posted: 8/14/2016 5:22:24 PM EDT
[#24]
If I am not mistaken, the law states the ability to accept a detachable magazine. It still has that ability. In the past, my conversations with ATF and Calif. DOJ , modifications were required to be permanent. They could not be reversed by simple use of tools. Modifications using a rivet or welding were GTG. They require drilling ,grinding or machining which show intent. That is the way it was back in 2000 . I doubt they have softened their stance. Calif. DOJ will not issue any letters of compliance any more. I received one back in 2000 for the FAB10. I have tried again in the last 5 years. They made it clear they will not do it again. Be sure of what you are doing. Do not assume that claims of being compliant are correct. If you are wrong, you could loose the ability to own firearms period. Craig
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Posted: 8/14/2016 6:43:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Honestly, laws like these push people out of the State. Well, I guess that's their objective, isn't it? That it is unconstitutional seems not to be a concern.
Okay, instead of a Nylock nut, use a swage fitting that would have to be cut off. Swage fittings cost less than Nylock nuts, too. You can use the protrusion as a "finger rest" - the place you put your finger when it is not on the trigger. |
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Posted: 8/15/2016 12:54:51 AM EDT
[#26]
If you want to fix a mag in the lower, there are a couple of ways to do it and be in compliance. You can rivet the mag in place at the bottom of the magwell in front with a 3/32 or 1/8 rivet. You can also buy a box of 10 allen nuts from McMaster Carr for about $12. Size is 10/32. Cut 1/8 inch off the mag catch threads. Drill the threads out of the mag catch button. Tighten the allen nut against the mag button until it bottoms out. The catch will not depress now . Fill the allen socket with JB weld. The problem with a fixed mag is that you can not drop it out to clear jams. I will be introducing a new billet lower that will address this problem and be compliant. I have sold around 150 in NY in the last couple of years. Their laws are even tougher. Craig
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Posted: 8/17/2016 9:11:47 AM EDT
[#27]
BOLT ACTION AR15 WOULD BE LEGAL ? --- BUILD AN AR15 WITHOUT THE GAS TUBE -- IF SOCIETY FALLS APART INSTALL GAS TUBE !
California is AMERICA - STAND TOGETHER - OR FALL SEPARATELY ! |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 11:47:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BOLT ACTION AR15 WOULD BE LEGAL ? --- BUILD AN AR15 WITHOUT THE GAS TUBE -- IF SOCIETY FALLS APART INSTALL GAS TUBE !
California is AMERICA - STAND TOGETHER - OR FALL SEPARATELY ! Or just swap uppers... |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 5:16:36 AM EDT
[#29]
I'm tired of looking for workarounds and ridiculous contraptions to shoot a rifle that was designed in the 50's. I'm just going to register mine, take the fucking bullet button off, and try to be happy with 10 round mags.
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Posted: 8/19/2016 4:48:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They could not be reversed by simple use of tools. Definition requested. With the simple use of tools I can build an aircraft carrier, a nuclear weapon, or a space shuttle. 
It's time to start warming up the tar and gathering feathers. These politicians need to be fired for violating the US Constitution as amended. Any objections? 
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Posted: 8/19/2016 7:47:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definition requested. With the simple use of tools I can build an aircraft carrier, a nuclear weapon, or a space shuttle.
It's time to start warming up the tar and gathering feathers. These politicians need to be fired for violating the US Constitution as amended. Any objections?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They could not be reversed by simple use of tools. Definition requested. With the simple use of tools I can build an aircraft carrier, a nuclear weapon, or a space shuttle.
It's time to start warming up the tar and gathering feathers. These politicians need to be fired for violating the US Constitution as amended. Any objections?
None. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 8:36:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definition requested. With the simple use of tools I can build an aircraft carrier, a nuclear weapon, or a space shuttle.
It's time to start warming up the tar and gathering feathers. These politicians need to be fired for violating the US Constitution as amended. Any objections?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They could not be reversed by simple use of tools. Definition requested. With the simple use of tools I can build an aircraft carrier, a nuclear weapon, or a space shuttle.
It's time to start warming up the tar and gathering feathers. These politicians need to be fired for violating the US Constitution as amended. Any objections?
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Posted: 8/20/2016 1:19:39 AM EDT
[#33]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTHECgM1APQ
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Posted: 8/20/2016 1:22:37 AM EDT
[#34]
http://www.bradleyarms.com
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Posted: 8/20/2016 2:27:58 PM EDT
[#35]
The way it was explained to me is that if it is reversed, it must show intent. Drilling, grinding ,welding or machining can not be explained as accidental. The common use of tools could be accidental. It is intentionally Gray area to keep everyone edgy. Our DOJ has a Tech division. They still will not make any determinations on what they consider compliant. They tell you to seek legal advice. The fact is you would be hard pressed to find any ATTY that would stick his neck out and give you the OK. There is a previous written determination by DOJ and ATF that a rivet is allowed as a permanent modification. I t requires drilling or grinding to reverse. I would assume other modifications that require the same to reverse would be acceptable as well. I hate it as much as everyone else. I just try to come up with ways to keep us in the game. It is important to have options so that the up and coming generations stay engaged and have at least some options to build and possess a firearm. It is tough enough already. If our numbers shrink, so will our rights.I appreciate anyone who offers alternative solutions. Craig
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Posted: 8/22/2016 9:45:18 AM EDT
[#36]
bolt action ar15 - no gas tube has to be legal - not semi auto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4FigimH9g |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 10:11:08 AM EDT
[#37]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9fhEmufgbw
This one is interesting ! |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 4:57:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  This one is interesting ! |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 11:05:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the part where he says "this rifle essentially fires from an open bolt" Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bolt stays open after firing but has to be closed with the lever before firing the next round . Open bolt guns (some machineguns) fire from an open bolt when the trigger is pulled. Anyhow if it gets the gun compliant with California law that's good -trigger parts can be changed back when shooting out of state. I'm sure the people in england have extra parts so the gun shoots semi auto. http://www.southern-gun.co.uk |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 1:34:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestyl, laws like these push people out of the State. Well, I guess that's their objective, isn't it? That it is unconstitutional seems not to be a concern Okay, instead of a Nylock nut, use a swage fitting that would have to be cut off. Swage fittings cost less than Nylock nuts, too. You can use the protrusion as a "finger rest" - the place you put your finger when it is not on the trigger. Well if clinton gets in we will be lucky to be able to buy AR15. I live on the border of California In Arizona .If it can happen there it can happen everywhere. ALL full auto not made before may 19 1986 and registered were banned by a republican nationwide. RONALD REGAN SO gunowners better come together and vote or it will be over for all. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:18:26 PM EDT
[#41]
With over 80 million gun owners in the USA, why is this election even close. Craig
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:22:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With over 80 million gun owners in the USA, why is this election even close. Craig Well really with well over 100 million gun owners -but - how the hell knows ! |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:32:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With over 80 million gun owners in the USA, why is this election even close. Craig Probably because it's an election between a democrat and a democrat pretending to be a racist republican. That and most gun owners are either wanksters, gamer wannabes, or coward ass hypocrites. 
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:34:57 AM EDT
[#44]
You know, I honestly actually like the design of those straight pull ARs. I bet they are the bee's knees when shooting suppressed and I can imagine they are quite accurate without the gas system mucking up harmonics.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 8:34:20 PM EDT
[#45]
This is a true story. It happened about a year ago. It explains why we are in this shape. I had a customer in my shop. He drove up in a 40 foot motor home.Our conversation led to firearms and regulations. I said I was a firearms Mfg. and I did AR15 type rifles. He said he didn't see why anyone needed one of those. Hell, he had his old trusty 38 special there in the motor home. You don't need anything else. I tried to keep my cool at first . I changed the conversation to motor homes. I said I did not see why anyone needed a 40 ft motor home . They should be outlawed. He started to get red faced. He said , have you ever spent any time in a small motor home?. I said no. I didn't give a shit. I said those fucking big motor homes just clog up traffic, cause too many accidents and burn way too much fuel. He was really getting worked up. I said the guys who drive them are usually fucking assholes and will not pull over to let traffic by. I said, hell, I don't need one so why should anyone else. I cracked a smile. He finally got it and said Point Well Taken. I said one day they will come after his motor home. He will need our support like we need his now. He was converted. Most gun owners do not understand or believe that what they like, at some point will be next. Craig
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:12:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a true story. It happened about a year ago. It explains why we are in this shape. I had a customer in my shop. He drove up in a 40 foot motor home.Our conversation led to firearms and regulations. I said I was a firearms Mfg. and I did AR15 type rifles. He said he didn't see why anyone needed one of those. Hell, he had his old trusty 38 special there in the motor home. You don't need anything else. I tried to keep my cool at first . I changed the conversation to motor homes. I said I did not see why anyone needed a 40 ft motor home . They should be outlawed. He started to get red faced. He said , have you ever spent any time in a small motor home?. I said no. I didn't give a shit. I said those fucking big motor homes just clog up traffic, cause too many accidents and burn way too much fuel. He was really getting worked up. I said the guys who drive them are usually fucking assholes and will not pull over to let traffic by. I said, hell, I don't need one so why should anyone else. I cracked a smile. He finally got it and said Point Well Taken. I said one day they will come after his motor home. He will need our support like we need his now. He was converted. Most gun owners do not understand or believe that what they like, at some point will be next. Craig Yep Ive heard these people before - why do you need a semi automatic to hunt with ( this is from people who own guns ) I said not only do i have semi auto firearms I have fully automatic firearms - that really sends them for a lupe. Anyhow they want to ban all guns as we know . first fully automatic ( done ) expect for ones registered before 05/19/1986 semi auto rifles which several states have restricted and banned ca- ny - nj - md - ct - ma then it will be multi capacity pump and lever and bolt action firearms and the one they really want the most ban all handguns Just take a little bit at a time that way it only hurts a little -- Thats why when they do these semi auto bans they dont just do a flat out ban saying all semi auto rifles and shotguns are banned - they ban some and leave some - so they can come back with another bill to ban more = even if trump wins the election - the ronald regan machinegun ban wont be overturned |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 2:52:10 PM EDT
[#47]
It's inevitable - history repeats itself unless we learn from the lessons of previous generations.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... |
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Posted: 9/30/2016 10:02:32 PM EDT
[#48]
http://franklin-armory.myshopify.com/products/franklin-armory-dfm-for-hk-platform
This is a conversion for use in restrictive jurisdictions such as California. |
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Posted: 9/30/2016 10:30:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's inevitable - history repeats itself unless we learn from the lessons of previous generations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... No joke there. I just finished reading Ellie Wiesel's book, "Night". The above describes exactly how his village was emptied of its Gypsies, Jews, Catholics,...one group at a time. The civic leaders were under threat of death not to discuss the Nazi plans with the people of the village. They complied and told no one. Wiesel's group was last to be herded onto the cattle cars that were nailed shut. No one had any firearms to fight back. |
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Posted: 9/30/2016 10:34:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Well California has about 40 million people and plenty of guns . At one time California was the number on buyer of ar15 and might still be . Their could be 30 to 50 million guns just in CAL.
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