User Panel
Posted: 7/15/2006 7:18:38 PM EDT
The opinions and descriptions here are my own and are not to represent an official opinion of this web site. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. Seek your own understanding with the California assault weapon laws prior to purchasing or assembling your own rifles.
Several tens of thousands of “off list lowers” have flooded California following the California Supreme Court’s “Harrott decision”. There are many ways to legally assemble these lowers, recently I purchased and assembled a kit from Ten Percent Firearms of Taft California. The $41 kit consists of everything needed to make an off list lower California compliant and quite functional. There are three separate items combined in this kit: a Prince50 magazine lock kit, a Watsons Weapons extended take down pin, and finally a Bushmaster 10 round magazine. The Prince50 magazine lock kit consists of four parts: a specially modified magazine catch button, a long hex screw, a short hex screw, and a matching hex wrench. The kit comes with a simple instruction sheet. The manufacturer explains that “this lock kit has not yet been approved by the California DOJ. It meets the requirements as set forth in California law only. Please continue to check the California DOJ firearms division for any emerging requirements.” A close up of the modified magazine catch button shows a second hole carefully drilled and tapped into the catch’s body. This allows for the use of a longer screw which bottoms out in the pocket of the magazine catch button keeping the button from being pressed and locking the magazine into place. To install you simply remove the old magazine release and put the new one in place. Remove the magazine and press the catch until you can grab the lever opposite of the catch that holds the magazine in place. Rotate the latch counter-clockwise until the catch comes off. Putting the Price50 into place is as simple as removing the old one. The manufacturer lists eight different configurations of the kit’s use, all of which meet the requirements of California law. They recommend using configuration number 8. 1. Spring, long screw. 2. Spring, long screw, glue. 3. Spring, long screw, small screw 4. Spring, long screw, small screw, glue 5. No spring, long screw. 6. No spring, long screw, glue. 7. No spring, long screw, small screw. 8. No sping, long screw, small screw, glue. The magazine can be removed with the use of the included hex wrench and returned to normal function should one leave California in about ten seconds from configuration 1 listed above. I tested the kit in configuration number 3 and will likely use the thing in configuration 4 with a dab of green locktite. From the left side of the rifle there is no difference in appearance. Dang, what happened to the serial number? Once the magazine is locked into place the rifle needs to be “shotguned” open to reload the ten round magazine. To make pulling the rear take down pin out Watson Weapons makes an extended take down pin which has a prominent head to it which makes gripping it with the fingers very easy. Once installed it sticks out just enough to get a finger hold on the thing to allow you to pull the take down pin with ease. The third and final part of the Ten Percent Firearms kit is a fine quality Bushmaster 10 round magazine. The magazine is locked closed and Bushmaster recommends against disassembly. The follower is an anti-tip green one. The fit and finish are standard Bushmaster perfection. My overall impression of this kit is very good. The Prince50 kit allows California compliance without permanent modification of the weapon. The Watson Weapons extended take down pin is a simple design and works well. The Bushmaster 10 round magazines have been know to function well. Ten Percent Firearms has assemble three simple to use parts to make your off list lower California compliant. Ten Percent Firearms can be located at www.tenpercentfirearms.com or by phone at (661) 765-6899. Shipping was very fast - three days to my door. See this thread for SRBtactical Spring Retaining Bracket solution: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=238419&page=1 |
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Next I'll do a spring retaining bracket (SRB) which replaces the pistol grip allowing detachable magazines to be used in an off list lower. That guy ought to be here next week early. I've also got another Bushmaster lower kit coming and my good friend Jon of "Jon has a long mustache" is mailing an upper to me,
Do not even expect me to go shooting in this weather to try these things out please! |
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You Navy guys get too far from that cool ocean breeze and just wilt, eh? |
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108 here for an expected high tomorrow - I don't even want to think what it's going to be like in the high desert ... Phoneix/Las Vegas hot! |
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Can the rifle be converted back to a detachable mag configuration with hand tools?
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It is my opinion that ANYTHING can be done with hand tools. So to ask that question is kind of irrelevant. Now from a legal stand point, I understand what you are asking, and to be honest, I would imagine that if I handed this particular receiver over to someone and asked them to take the magazine out, the entire receiver would be destroyed in the process. The magazine itself HAS to be destroyed to remove it, and once removed a magazine can NOT be inserted inted the receiver without modification. To give you an idea to the extent I fixed the magazine, you will notice the rear leg of the follower is pretty much non-existant. That's because the roll pin passes through the magazine (not in a notch like the Vulcan, but actually in one side and out the other) and is locked in place on BOTH sides of the receiver. In all honesty, I don't think this thing will EVER be anything but a fixed mag, even if I moved out of the state. |
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small tools, tiny parts hey
on a serious note i've been waiting to see what the stuff looks like up close. nice pics. looks like a veery good system. |
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Paul,
what kind of camera did you use taking those pictures? They are amazing. |
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Yes - a hex screw needs to be removed for configurations 1-4. In configurations 5-8 you'll need to put the magazine catch spring back inside the pocket under the catch. |
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Thanks for the addition. The Bushmaster web site says do not dis-assemble ... but it looks like its possible. Since the only thing holding the magazine in place is a hex screw if the body were to become damaged it's simple enough to repair. Remove the pistol grip, loosen the screw, pull the magazine, pop a new magazine into place, return the screw, and now put the pistol grip back in place. |
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Thank you very much. That's a five year old Olympus E-10 with a close up diopter lens using a bounce flash. The thing is only 4 Mb worth of resolution but has excellent glass. It's really not the camera that makes the pictures ... it's the photographer. I'm upgrading the camera with a Nikon D70s with matching 18-200mm Nikon lens and flash but I'll still likely keep the Olympus around for awhile. I've taken close to 20,000 pictures with it and it's having trouble with its auto-focus and its flash bracket. Still works great for manual focused shots and I have a bounce grip that works perfect. |
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I like the kit, think I might actually get one since I need a take down pin and magazine. But awhile ago I bought a similar device from a guy on another web site. Basically a mag release button that was drilled and came with a small set screw and allen wrench. While I love the concept the mag release button was plastic which I am concerned will wear or strip over time. I travel to AZ a lot and want to be able to back the set screw out to use it with removalable mags. Then before coming home to CA I put the ten round back in place and tighten the set screw down.
I haven't used it yet since it is going in an offlist lower which I haven't completed yet. I have a completed FAB10 that I love. So, does this kit come with a plastic mag release button or a metal one? |
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Even w/ a hangover that made me laugh. |
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Metal. |
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Nice kit. I'll need 4 for my off list lowers. But I was wondering if this kit would be ok to put on my DOJ approved Vulcan receiver with the crappy mag? I bought mine before they started using glue or epoxy.
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As long as it's an off list lower (the list is pinned in this forum) and you don't create an assualt weapon you should be fine. |
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+1 on 10% firearms.
When I looked back on my emails from 6 months ago, when the BRD started, I laugh at the newbish question I asked him. Back in January, during the peak of the off list hysteria he could have just brushed me off, as I am sure he had plenty of other customers. He was very helpful then as he is now, so I purchase my AR parts whenever possible from 10%. |
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+2
I do most of my business at 10% firearms. (It's also my AO for the PD) I will pickup my off list lower, prince50 kit and bushy mag today. If anyone is coming into Taft (10% Firearms), send me a e-mail i'll try to come by and meet ya ! I work m-f 8-5. SgtWhiting |
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Wes and CWS were both there in the early morning hours of the OLL fiasco, without those guys we wouldnt have made it so strong a turn out.
I drove from Oakland to Taft to pickup that first lower and I kept thinking the DOJ was going to be there waiting to talk with us when we got there. |
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Hahah yeah. I couldn't stay at the San Jose show where it all started en masse, but friends running a booth kept calling me later that afternoon and Sunday with the rumors that "there was gonna be a bust of the redhead with the ARs". Iggy was flustered, and Don Kilmer walked by and checked out the paperwork given with the lowers and pronounced it OK.
I drove to Taft end of December, it was a nice trip. But I was thinking that DOJ would "investigate" at the last minute and my lowers could be held in limbo. When I had my lowers I celebrated w/a nice prime rib at Harris Ranch. Bill Wiese San Jose CA |
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Feels like that was years ago-not months ago. We burnt some midnight oil tryiong to help Wes find replacements for the Fultons that were indian-given, and DSA raised rates when they found out where they were going. |
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I ordered this Prince 50 Kit and the mag release button is too big to fit confortably into the reciever(gotta use quite a bit of force to get it half way in). What should i do?
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What type fo receiver are you using?
You could always return it if it is out of spec, but personally I don't like waiting, wasting people's time, etc so I would just take it over to a belt sander, or even a hand file, and just take off a couple thousandths until it slides in properly. |
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Double Star. I thought about just using fine sandpaper and going to work on it. Things should fit though, don't you think. The standard button that came with my lower parts kit fits just fine. hmmm |
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You should love the Nikon D70s. I picked one up last year just after it was introduced to replace the D70. It takes excellent photos and has enough technology and automation to make a novice photographer take great photos but enough manual settings to allow a more experienced photographer have complete control on all of the settings. I've owned 35mm SLR's since the early 80's and was reluctent to switch to a digital SLR until the D70s due to cost and until the last few years, photo quality compared to 35mm. I like it so much that I am now completely digital in both SLR and compact cameras with the exception of an older Minolta 35mm camera which is waterproof. I keep that one because it is great for fishing, beach, camping, desert, etc. where sand and water could damage a more expensive digital. Excellent choice in the 18-200mm lens. With the difference in sensor size in the D70s compared to 35mm format, it will essentially be seen by the camera as a 35mm equivelent of a 27-300mm. I personally went with a Tamron 18-200mm as I have used Tamron for years and have had great success with them. I also have a Tamron 28-300mm digital/film lens left over from my last 35mm SLR which the smaller sensor on the D70s sees as a 42-450mm. Between the 2 lenses I can cover a whole lot of ground. If you haven't purchased yet, try a Google search on Tamron reviews compared to Nikor lenses and you may find like I did a reason to choose the Tamron. |
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Ditto on the Nikon D70. On a good flat screen monitor, the images are so defined that they become almost three dimensional.
And so as to not hijack.... Wes has good deals and great service. |
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If you feel you can get it to work, I would say go for it. It will give you a sense of satisfaction that you did something; like how putting together a lower makes it feel like you built it, but buying one just makes it feel like you own it. |
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I will if and when I ever get the darn lens! I put it on order back on May 26th ... and it's estimated delivery is late August! I tried to buy the Nikon 70-300mm lens two weeks ago and the company canceled the order the day they were due to deliver (Ace Digital). So I've ordered a third lens - a Sigma 10-22mm ultra-wide angle lens from B&H photo which is due here Tuesday. |
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I would sand down the $5 pin rather than the $100 lower. If you screw up you can always replace the pin.
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