I am dong a light weight AR build out.  Was going to skelatinize the magazine well.   One side has the SN, the maker name, I think the city, state & a symbol, their little brand logo....

Okay, I looked at it again.  On one side of the lower above the trigger it says "Armalite Inc Geneseo IL."  This is actually an SBR and my trust name & city is on the other side of the lower above the trigger.  

What is on the magazine well looks like this:
"ARMALITE (W/ leaping lion logo)
AR -10
USXXXXXX"

Can I remove the "Armalite" w/ logo and maybe also the "AR-10" from the mag well, or at least the Armalite & Logo since it says "Armalite Inc" elsewhere on the lower?

The manufacturer's name, location, model name, caliber and serial number cannot be altered or removed without committing a felony.



From the BATFE's website under February here:

"pursuant to Section 5861(g) of the
, it is unlawful
<q>to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or other identification of a firearm required by the chapter</q> as well as Section 5861(h) which makes it unlawful
<q>to
receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other
identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed, changed,
or altered.</q>   Section 5842 of the
requires that, each firearm manufactured imported or made be identified
by a serial number, the name of the manufacturer, importer or maker,
and
<q>other identification</q> as prescribed by the regulations.  The
additional marking requirements are prescribed by 22 CFR 479.102, and
include the model of the firearm, caliber or gauge, name of the
manufacturer or importer of record, and the city and state of the
manufacturer who made the firearm or name of the country in which the
firearm was manufactured. Pursuant to section 5861(g) of the
, it a criminal offense for an individual to obliterate any of the required markings found on an
firearm."



The logo may not be considered the manufacturer's name as it's listed with the location of manufacture, but as for the rest none of it can be removed, altered or obscured.

thx.  I know this type of thing someitmes comes up w/ smith & wesson round butt conversions,

Note that this applies to the frame on most handguns.
THE piece that is the gun.

Slide marks are rarely controlled items.

Ruger (MARK I/ii/iii) pistols are an expetion (and there are probably some others).
The upper receiver the barrel screws into IS the gun.
That little piece of tubular steel.

It sounds like the logo (including the Armalite words) itself is safe to come off since the manufacturer name and location is elsewhere. But not the serial or the model which is near the logo.

If the model cannot be altered or removed how are people remarking H&K 94s to MP-5s and H&K SL-8s to G-36K legally?

 
Im not an expert on this...but if you SBR a firearm via form 1 (to make and register a firearm), could you then put whatever you want on it?

I was working with a gun maker on a custom Mauser 98. The entire action was reworked. I had the serial number relocated to the rear tang groove just under the cocking piece on the bolt.




 



I could scrap all the laser etched KAC logo, model and serial number on my KAC lower and put whatever I wanted to on it since laser etched information doesn't meet the ATF criteria. The KAC information is roll marked/engraved on the pistol grip tang. The only way to see it would be to take the pistol grip off.



However, doing so would greatly depreciate the value of my KAC lower.




 


I would assume if your doing gunsmith work on a firearm, I which most or all the required information might be removed in the process, you can move said information to another area. The ATF will give you different answers. The ATF says a serial number can't be removed or moved from its original location or something like that. But the ATF has also said it can be moved if it will probably be unreadable after the gunsmith worth is completed. Typical ATF answers....

I wonder if the person doing the work has a manufacturers FFL if it would make it ok...but then the excise tax might have to be repaid....interesting question

 
My gun maker is a manufacturer, but since I sent him my gun, I would assume it constitute as "gunsmithing" since he is not selling the firearm, but only working on it.

if you copy the serial number to another part of the receiver then work on the metal where the original serial number was then reprint the serial number in the original spot you have to have a manufacturer ffl

 
I wasn't sure on the manufacture part if it was required or not.

But my SN is not in the original location. A lot of custom Mausers were done this way.


Where SN was:




Where it is now:

they used to be done that way....all the time....but if you do it today to be legal per ATF you have to have a manufacturers FFL...the ATF some time back arbitrarily changed the rules...

hell they say if you buy a gun and change over fixed sights to adjustable sights for the propose of resale you better have  a manufacturers FFL

in neither case are you manufacturing shit....except under some weird atf view...

bump just in case I want to put some followup later...

You can ADD markings.
You just are not allowed to REMOVE certain markings.

It does not appear there is any exception if the mark is also in another place.



Folks who try to 'read into ' a statute for any reason can all to easily end up in trouble.

DangerDan - that's an awesome polishing job on that lower.

Receiver, but thanks. It's not finished. I ended up selling it because I had other obligations I needed to take care of.
In the end, it would have been a high polish and color case hardened with a little bit of engraving.

On a Title I firearm, everything can be removed but the SN.

its actually a form 1 sbr.  so, im the mfg right?  i used the original SN but othersise per the gca it just has to have my name, town and SN right??

Can you cite a source?

I'd love to get my SL8 re stamped G-36E while it's off having the receiver stub conversion done.

Chopstix Kid (Dakota Tactical) does (did?) this all the time on his G36 conversions as does (did?) TBostic (Tommy Built Tactical). The only thing I can remember Chopstix Kid getting a visit from the ATF over was when he was moving the serial number plates to a different part of the receiver. He was told that he can't do that so he started modifying SL8's while having to cut around the serial number plate in the original location. He was still changing the "SL8" markings to "G36".

Lack of a law making it illegal?