Is CZ dropping the EVO 3 S1 for a new design ? (link added)

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is CZ dropping the EVO 3 S1 for a new design ? (link added)

Posted: 2/25/2017 12:15:43 PM EDT

This was posted on the CZ EVO forum, seems pretty detailed to be made up.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85568.0

Starts half way down second page.

"Supposedly they're not going to ship any more out. They can't get any more from cz in Europe. Apparently they're going to be releasing the evo 3 A2/S2 updated version which has completely redesigned the magazine and mag well. The new mags will not be compatible with the S1. All of their resources for production are currently aimed at the S2 production to make the deadline prior to the unspecified release date. Cz will not say as to when or if they would consider production again for supporting the S1 version.

Kinda sounds like what sig did to the mpx owners

Who knows what will happen..."

and then this follow up.

"The new release of the scorpion pistol with the carbine handguard was just a way for them to flush out their s1 parts inventory. Apparently the carbines were easier to sell in foreign countries with so many firearms restrictions thus a surplus of carbine handguards. Certain molded parts of the evo are made in batches outside of the factory. The factory has 2 different departments, civilian and military. Since the military department had no use for the carbine handguard and the civilian department wasn't yet set up for the molding process, the carbine handguards were fabricated by a third party in a large batch to save cost. The r&d guys and the manufacturing guys don't work in the same office so there was some delay of info prior to a large order of carbine handguards.

Also, the evo s1 was never intended to be sold with its current lower control group. It's too easy to merely swap out the internal parts to make it select fire. Much like how an ar15 doesn't have the third hole to install select fire components, the new lower control group is completely redesigned so that internal parts can't be interchangeable between the s1 and s2. Cz sales claimed they were pressured to get the evo out on the market prior to design, production and testing of a new lower control group. The weld was just a quick fix to meet federal guidelines both here and around the globe.

As far as parts ordered and received from cz, it's everything they currently have in inventory and nothing new. When cz usa receives new parts from their parent company in Europe, these are parts from their warehouse that were produced long ago. Cz is required under many foreign government contracts to keep a minimum amount of replacement parts on hand for evo A1's currently being used by these unspecified foreign goverments. I'm sure our country would be pissed if they signed a contract to use x amount of scorpion smg's or x amount of years and cz couldn't replace the parts half way through the contract term

So chances are pretty high that if you just recently purchased a new evo or new evo mag direct from cz, you're not receiving newer mags. The newer mags (b type) were just another quick fix. It was the cheapest solution to fix the mag problem until the release of the S2. Instead of redesigning the mag molds for a stronger mag, they just tossed the current mag molds into a cnc and machined out more material to increase the feed lip thickness.

My sources asked not to named, but said it was on me as to whether or not I wished to share this info prior to the public release of the S2. They work for cz and I first met them while I was working for the US army in Germany. I'm not asking anybody to believe me and I'm not looking for attention, the reason I didn't start a new thread about this. It just kinda came out with my fingers typing and my brain not thinking when I was responding to SouthernScorp's post regarding lack of response from Cz to exchange out his mags.

A final note. The A2/S2 has been out for some time now. Just not outside of the manufacturing plant and a select few private contractors. Naturally the S2 has a different receiver as to not accept an A2 nor A1/S1 lower control groups. Both the S2 and A2 accept and share the same mags which are completely different from the A1/S1 mags. Subtle changes have been made to the fire selector location, improved trigger and how the pistol grip attaches to the receiver.

I think they finally got it right, even if that meant that us S1 owners will soon be relying upon the aftermarket manufacturers to keep our evo's pumping."

Posted: 2/25/2017 2:09:11 PM EDT

[#1]

Link to the reference forum posts?

Posted: 2/25/2017 2:24:19 PM EDT

[#2]

Someone link the bullshit flag emoji

Posted: 2/25/2017 3:04:06 PM EDT

[#3]

You have my attention. I'm about to buy a scorpion. Don't want to get stuck with an out dated model

Posted: 2/25/2017 3:51:20 PM EDT

[#4]

I'm not concerned manticore making mags for us Gen. 1. My scorpion has been very reliable I doubt it will be that much better. Also our lowers pop off so maybe the gen 2 lower can be used on our guns as well. Depending on the truth to all of this.

Posted: 2/25/2017 4:33:48 PM EDT

[#5]

I can tellyou straight out that post and info is, bluntly, a load of crap.

I work firsthand with CZ (typically talk with them2-3 times a week) and the guns will continue to use the magazine design they currently have.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Posted: 2/25/2017 5:09:15 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
I can tellyou straight out that post and info is, bluntly, a load of crap.

I work firsthand with CZ (typically talk with them2-3 times a week) and the guns will continue to use the magazine design they currently have.

Sven
Manticore Arms

View Quote

/thread

Posted: 2/25/2017 5:24:20 PM EDT

[#7]

Fake news

Posted: 2/25/2017 5:33:03 PM EDT

[#8]

kyron4 please IM me a link to where you found that post. I will set the record straight.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Posted: 2/25/2017 5:50:16 PM EDT

[#9]

well the Evo is a fairly new weapon but CZ already sold a few thousands around the world to mil & leo...
I cant belive they will change the design so much leaving real world users without support..

Posted: 2/25/2017 6:20:41 PM EDT

[#10]

CZ has sold hundreds of thousands of EVOs to militaries, and several thousand stateside. I wouldn't imagine they're changing a damn thing, because it ain't broke. And I believe manticore more than random, unlinked posts.

Posted: 2/25/2017 6:21:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Interesting. I panic bought 10 skorpion evo mags last fall, and figured I'd eventually buy one. If this is even partially true, the big question is should I grab one now, or should I be waiting for the new model to come out, and pick up a used older one.

If its like the PS90, you would think the older ones might be worth MORE

Posted: 2/25/2017 6:32:31 PM EDT

[#12]

Who the he'll posted this.. CNN?

Posted: 2/25/2017 8:03:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Here's the link. The posts start about half way down the second page. Came from "The Original CZ Forum"

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85568.0

Posted: 2/25/2017 8:10:19 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
kyron4 please IM me a link to where you found that post. I will set the record straight.

Sven
Manticore Arms

View Quote

I posted the link here and sent you a IM with the link. I emailed CZ myself but won't here from them till Monday at the earliest.

Posted: 2/26/2017 11:14:04 AM EDT

[#15]

How is the current model easily converted to FA? I thought the S1 had very specific changes made so this cannot happen.

Posted: 2/26/2017 1:40:20 PM EDT

[#16]

I read through Mursalot's post on CZforum. Everything that was said is, in two words, pure garbage. There isn't a single thing in that post that is correct.

Maybe he was told that by a super secret source overseas who claims to work with CZ, but his source is misinformed or outright making crap up.

I hate when people try to post "in the know stuff" when they aren't really in the know. It is like the guy who claimed he got two of the PGS Hybrid magazines from Manticore because he had a "in" with them and knew the CEO- he was telling this on a facebook forum and told me this. The funny part was he lifted my own picture from our website, and didn't know that I am the CEO and President of Manticore, the only mags that were distributed were the ones locked in my office, and that I have a list of every single person that I had personally shipped mags to!

People want to sound like they are in the know because they want to feel important. But that often leads to spreading bad or misconstrued info.

The Scorpion EVO will have some minor changes in 2017, but nothing that will affect parts reverse compatibility, and it will continue to use the same magazine well and be able to use the same mags and the PGS Hybrid mags. We would not have invested a great deal of time and money nor had many meetings with CZ including going out to their facility for meetings if they were going to make newer guns incompatible with the current magazine design.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Posted: 2/26/2017 1:49:00 PM EDT

[#17]

Any idea what the changes will be?

Posted: 2/26/2017 2:48:02 PM EDT

[#18]

Well done.

Quote History

Quoted:
I read through Mursalot's post on CZforum. Everything that was said is, in two words, pure garbage. There isn't a single thing in that post that is correct.

Maybe he was told that by a super secret source overseas who claims to work with CZ, but his source is misinformed or outright making crap up.

I hate when people try to post "in the know stuff" when they aren't really in the know. It is like the guy who claimed he got two of the PGS Hybrid magazines from Manticore because he had a "in" with them and knew the CEO- he was telling this on a facebook forum and told me this. The funny part was he lifted my own picture from our website, and didn't know that I am the CEO and President of Manticore, the only mags that were distributed were the ones locked in my office, and that I have a list of every single person that I had personally shipped mags to!

People want to sound like they are in the know because they want to feel important. But that often leads to spreading bad or misconstrued info.

The Scorpion EVO will have some minor changes in 2017, but nothing that will affect parts reverse compatibility, and it will continue to use the same magazine well and be able to use the same mags and the PGS Hybrid mags. We would not have invested a great deal of time and money nor had many meetings with CZ including going out to their facility for meetings if they were going to make newer guns incompatible with the current magazine design.

Sven
Manticore Arms

View Quote

Posted: 2/26/2017 4:12:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Scorpion EVO will have some minor changes in 2017, but nothing that will affect parts reverse compatibility

Sven
Manticore Arms

View Quote

13.5mm LH muzzle threads?

I kid, I kid!

Posted: 2/26/2017 5:06:22 PM EDT

[#20]

My head hurts reading post and counter post. I was soooooo close to pulling the trigger on a Scorp pistol but not now. I want to see how this is going to play out with the S2 version and whether or not support of the the S1 disappears like a fart in the wind

Posted: 2/26/2017 5:10:18 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
My head hurts reading post and counter post. I was soooooo close to pulling the trigger on a Scorp pistol but not now. I want to see how this is going to play out with the S2 version and whether or not support of the the S1 disappears like a fart in the wind

View Quote

Listen to Manticore. Buy with confidence.

Posted: 2/26/2017 5:28:14 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Any idea what the changes will be?

View Quote

Yes but I am under NDA so cannot publicly discuss the exact changes.

The only reason I even mentioned it in public is to let people know that the post over on the other forum is incorrect, and that I firsthand have the knowledge to confirm it is inaccurate.

Rumors like that create all sorts of headaches for people like me, my company, and CZ and I wanted to nip it in the bud before the innaccurate i fo spread like wildfire acrossthe internet.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Posted: 2/26/2017 5:46:55 PM EDT

[#23]

Ok, can you answer this...looking to buy my first evo. Should I buy now or hold out for the new changes.

Posted: 2/26/2017 7:11:54 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ok, can you answer this...looking to buy my first evo. Should I buy now or hold out for the new changes.

View Quote

Buy now, no need to wait. Changes are very minor.

Posted: 2/26/2017 7:48:20 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

Buy now, no need to wait. Changes are very minor.

View Quote

Thanks. On the verge of buying a scorpion myself.

Posted: 2/26/2017 11:38:57 PM EDT

[#26]

Thanks for clearing this up Sven

Posted: 2/27/2017 2:21:33 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
My head hurts reading post and counter post. I was soooooo close to pulling the trigger on a Scorp pistol but not now. I want to see how this is going to play out with the S2 version and whether or not support of the the S1 disappears like a fart in the wind

View Quote

if you wait around for internet rumor to become fact, Hillary will soon be president, Trump is an agent of Russia and there's a Scorpion Evo S3 in the works (SARCASM)...you know because they want to release it in 10mm and .22 LR...oh and the S3 will have fingerprinting technology that will only work with your set of prints...

***standard internet sarcasm disclaimer***
Everything said in the post above was fiction and meant as humor and shouldn't be taken with any seriousness...

Posted: 2/27/2017 4:50:38 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Changes are very minor.

View Quote

^ This. Sven is correct. If anyone is concerned about compatibility issues it is probably because they own(ed) an MPX :-)

Posted: 2/28/2017 6:53:28 PM EDT

[#29]

I just received a reply from CZ and they were not happy to say the least about this rumor. As Sven has posted they assured me there were no such changes being made to the EVO and they will continue to support the platform with parts , magazines, and warranties. So we can all sleep well tonight.

Posted: 3/2/2017 7:46:45 PM EDT

[#30]

Off topic...I had the same dis-connector failure in that CZ thread. Sven, maybe there is a market for a disconnector that does not suck

Posted: 3/4/2017 3:02:13 AM EDT

[#31]

Geez what a load. CZ is making way too much money to just pull a sig move at this point.

If they make some changes, they'll most likely be subtle as the current gen is pretty solid as is until people start playing around with their internal parts. I highly doubt anything drastic.

Most likely changes in an s2 "or atleast some they SHOULD do" :

Redesigned or metal re-inforced magazines that drop free.

New trigger group with a lower factory pull weight and pull length "Everyfrigginbody bitches about it, there's no way for CZ to have not heard it over and over"

Redesign on the overly tight safety detent spring and levers, and seeing how the s1 a1 trigger group is contained in a drop in housing the new version could be made backwards compatible.

Yet another new hanguard design possibly sporting mlok or keymod on the pistols ditching the picatinny.

Drop the euro style s1 index finger mag release for a factory drop down lever "hopefully not going the ar15 button style route" as thatd be a completely new magazine with side locking tabs vs front locking current gen

Posted: 3/4/2017 3:05:07 AM EDT

[#32]

An mp5 style grip and charge handle would also be nice, hint hint....

Posted: 3/4/2017 7:42:36 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
An mp5 style grip and charge handle would also be nice, hint hint....

View Quote

This.

So hoping someone will come out with a HK style grip. Listening Sven ?

Posted: 3/4/2017 11:42:07 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Geez what a load. CZ is making way too much money to just pull a sig move at this point.

If they make some changes, they'll most likely be subtle as the current gen is pretty solid as is until people start playing around with their internal parts. I highly doubt anything drastic.

Most likely changes in an s2 "or atleast some they SHOULD do" :

Redesigned or metal re-inforced magazines that drop free.

New trigger group with a lower factory pull weight and pull length "Everyfrigginbody bitches about it, there's no way for CZ to have not heard it over and over"

Redesign on the overly tight safety detent spring and levers, and seeing how the s1 a1 trigger group is contained in a drop in housing the new version could be made backwards compatible.

Yet another new hanguard design possibly sporting mlok or keymod on the pistols ditching the picatinny.

Drop the euro style s1 index finger mag release for a factory drop down lever "hopefully not going the ar15 button style route" as thatd be a completely new magazine with side locking tabs vs front locking current gen

View Quote

And kill the entire aftermarket community is one fell swoop

Posted: 3/4/2017 1:03:08 PM EDT

[#35]

Aftermarket will always outperform factory and be further ahead at releasing products people ask for. When they design a gun it has to be mass public compatible out the box. The aftermarket is geared towards customizing for better personal tastes and fit. As shooting styles change they simply come out with a new part, where factory would holdoff until the next revision and even then would have to fit small to large hands.

Look at the AR-15 and Glock market anything you could want somebody is making or soon to have. No matter how much you tell yourself you'll keep it simple and close to stock, it never happens

Posted: 3/4/2017 1:06:54 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:

This.

So hoping someone will come out with a HK style grip. Listening Sven ?

View Quote

I'm sure he's got plenty on his plate as is, but if we keep dropping hints on the various forums, like pidgeon crap it's hard to ignore all the black and white

Posted: 3/4/2017 2:13:34 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm sure he's got plenty on his plate as is, but if we keep dropping hints on the various forums, like pidgeon crap it's hard to ignore all the black and white

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

This.

So hoping someone will come out with a HK style grip. Listening Sven ?

I'm sure he's got plenty on his plate as is, but if we keep dropping hints on the various forums, like pidgeon crap it's hard to ignore all the black and white

Lol, some days you are the pigeon and some days you are the gun parts.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Posted: 3/4/2017 2:16:32 PM EDT

[#38]

And to reiterate, the Scorpion EVO is not changing other than some very minor tweaks. Same magazines, same parts.

If you read the thread on the other forum even CZ confirms this (if you need to see it from them to confirm what I already knew and stated)

Sven
Manticore Arms

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is CZ dropping the EVO 3 S1 for a new design ? (link added)

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