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B&T 9mm Carbine APC9 (Page 1 of 74)
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Posted: 4/28/2014 11:38:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: carter56]
Hi,

I need your opinion about the swiss made carbine from Brügger & Thomet.
maybe soon in my safe...

I've read some good things:

AR trigger compatible
Fully ambidextrous
3 lug
Hydrolic "buffer"
Etc....

Some pics





Comes with a T1 red dot, delivered as you can see below











Trigger housing...







Hydrolic buffer



Bolt









Feed ramp and 3 lug


Seems to be adjustable...?



Very very good quality I think.
So, what do you think?




Link Posted: 9/10/2017 1:12:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Looks like someone across the pond is looking out for us and has posted video of the GHM9 being field stripped and re-assembled. Interesting how B&T integrated the buffer into the bolt carrier. 

Not my video 
Link Posted: 9/10/2017 1:38:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Aaaaargh, I just spent so much money recently.....must have.
Link Posted: 9/10/2017 10:38:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michealj:
Looks like someone across the pond is looking out for us and has posted video of the GHM9 being field stripped and re-assembled. Interesting how B&T integrated the buffer into the bolt carrier. 

Not my video 
View Quote
Wonder what that logo is on the bottom of the receiver, hidden by the rear stock block?

Pretty neat to see how the buffer is incorporated, and how it's milled out in the middle for the AR type hammer.

One take away is that the receiver looks like a KH9, but only in passing. Wonder how this can be cheaper than the KH9 since the amount of machining on the receiver is similar.  I can see the savings in the simplified AR FCG and bolt.  The KH9 sear linkage is much more complicated.
Link Posted: 9/11/2017 12:55:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dushan] [#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Trpclfvr:
Wonder what that logo is on the bottom of the receiver, hidden by the rear stock block?
View Quote
I believe it was a rat/mouse eating a scorpion.

Join the facebook group

Brügger & Thomet (B&T) Firearm Owners Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1296908786998938/

Logo pic

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1937029169913231&set=p.1937029169913231&type=3&theater
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 6:13:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Can anyone directly compare recoil of the APC9 to an MP5 also to a Scorpion (all suppressed or not)?

I sold my Scorpion because it was too aggressive in recoil compared to the MP5, I could see no reason to keep it as it was MP5 sized and didn't run as nice. Now considering the APC9 because it's practically MP5-K PDW sized but don't want to get into the same scenario now just for more money -

Anyone?
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 8:42:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: michealj] [#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By new21022:
Can anyone directly compare recoil of the APC9 to an MP5 also to a Scorpion (all suppressed or not)?

I sold my Scorpion because it was too aggressive in recoil compared to the MP5, I could see no reason to keep it as it was MP5 sized and didn't run as nice. Now considering the APC9 because it's practically MP5-K PDW sized but don't want to get into the same scenario now just for more money -

Anyone?
View Quote
I can give you a comparison of the APC9 and the Scorpion both suppressed from my perspective and my wife's. 

Both are SBRed and I run them with an Evo-9. I honestly do not notice much a difference in recoil but think the APC shoots "smoother". The APC is so familiar and well built that it takes no effort to shoot fast and accurately. I get very little blow back with either of them with the suppressor but the APC has less POI shift by a couple inches and is a little more accurate. My wife prefers to shoot the Scorpion not because of the recoil, but it has better ergonomics for her and it may be a little lighter. 

Edit:

So yesterday I took my Scorpion, APC9 and P26 out for a little afternoon shooting because my wife said the the recoil of the APC9 was much lighter than the Scorpion. She is right, I am not recoil sensitive so I don't really pay attention when shooting smaller caliber's, so while shooting all three I paid close attention to the recoil. 

APC9: Suppressed, there is recoil but it is more of a aggressive push to the shoulder in a very linear motion. Unsuppressed, the recoil is pretty much the same but I could feel the buffer absorbing the recoil more so than when suppressed.
P26: Pretty much the same as the APC9, the difference is the stock which caused a little more pressure on my shoulder and a slight rattle in my jawbone.
Scorpion: Compared to the APC9 this little guy produces a sharper recoil that almost feels like a slap to the face and a light punch to the shoulder. It felt like the recoil spring had to do much more work to control the bolt than on the other two and I could feel the bolt cycling with no buffer to slow the bolt at the end of its stroke. The stock was definitely causing the slap to the face feel that I did not notice with the APC.
Link Posted: 9/18/2017 7:55:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for posting that with the edit.

Sounds like the APC9 might be my PCC competition gun this year. Tried with the MP5, but mag changes were dumb.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:23:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Traded a backup AR and a bit of cash for Brownell's only APC9 yesterday. Did 2 mags worth of dirt shooting.

I have a new favorite gun.
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 1:37:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Parts are starting to dry up at my usual places.

Need:
APC folding stock
Stubby VFG

Want:
Jet Funnel mag well
Mag coupler
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 2:57:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:
Parts are starting to dry up at my usual places.

Need:
APC folding stock
Stubby VFG

Want:
Jet Funnel mag well
Mag coupler
View Quote
THSF has the folding stock in stock

Here
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 3:58:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Brownells has 10% off today, B&T firearms included. Better than most places dealer price on B&Ts.
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 7:24:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: N_Parker] [#12]
GHM9 on GB


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/698698299
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 9:50:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By N_Parker:
GHM9 on GB


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/698698299
View Quote
I bought one today! So excited.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 12:31:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Will there be a SB brace for the new GHM9? I was all set on buying a Zenith Z-5P but kind of like the looks of the new GHM9. And it's cheaper.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 1:30:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Exetik:
Will there be a SB brace for the new GHM9? I was all set on buying a Zenith Z-5P but kind of like the looks of the new GHM9. And it's cheaper.
View Quote
I think there is a brace for a TP9 that would work on the GHM9 but it's rather ugly. Personally, I am just gonna spend the money on turning into an SBR rather than wait for a brace.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 12:10:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:
Parts are starting to dry up at my usual places.

Need:
APC folding stock
Stubby VFG

Want:
Jet Funnel mag well
Mag coupler
View Quote
coupler:
http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazine-couplers-amp-holders/magazine-clamp-for-b-t-apc-prod108141.aspx

Im on the hunt for a spare bolt assembly or firing pin, an extractor and maybe feed ramps as those two are easy to replace, which tells me they might need to be.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 12:12:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By new21022:
Brownells has 10% off today, B&T firearms included. Better than most places dealer price on B&Ts.
View Quote
what was that code? all i saw was "LAV" for $10 off $100.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 1:20:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By N_Parker:
GHM9 on GB


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/698698299
View Quote
That looks like sold by G and R Tactical. I purchased my P26 and KH9 through them.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 1:49:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By branflake12:

Im on the hunt for a spare bolt assembly or firing pin, an extractor and maybe feed ramps as those two are easy to replace, which tells me they might need to be.
View Quote
/\/\/\ This for me!  If there's a source for things like firing pin, extractor etc for APC9 and P26 I'd love to know.
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 1:54:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Exetik:
Will there be a SB brace for the new GHM9? I was all set on buying a Zenith Z-5P but kind of like the looks of the new GHM9. And it's cheaper
View Quote
Atlantic Firearms offers a brace adapter. 
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 2:01:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 9/22/2017 3:12:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Atlantic Arms has the GMH9 for $1274
Link Posted: 9/23/2017 7:03:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ATLANTIC-FIREARMS] [#23]
Link Posted: 9/24/2017 7:29:40 PM EDT
[#24]
FYI, the description for the firearm has errors.  The SA/DA description is for the KH9 only. The GHM FCG has the same functionality of any AR.

Additionally, the note in there about the 50-round B&T magazine is incorrect. Again, that refers to the KH9, where it can be adapted to use Suomi Coffin Magazines (WW2 surplus only). The largest capacity B&T magazine is 30 rounds.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLANTIC-FIREARMS:
B&T GHM9 Pistol fresh off the boat ,Here are some pics .

B&T GHM9 Pistol
View Quote
Link Posted: 9/25/2017 5:49:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Looks like that safety setup is the  same as the P26 I got, needs right hand safety delete as well, you can see it interferes with the shooter's grip from the pic above.
Link Posted: 9/25/2017 1:37:29 PM EDT
[#26]
I want one
Link Posted: 9/29/2017 12:46:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xM16a1x:

I bought one today! So excited.
View Quote
Can you do a quick rundown of it when you get it with a few pictures please ? I'm really considering one myself . I love my 9mm Steyr Aug but it's a bit heavy at almost 12 pounds loaded with all the accessories  and it's 26" long. Looking for something  a bit lighter with a 3 lug for my octane. Spent to much money on the Aug platform, these now Ghm9 pistols look like a lot of gun for the money!
Link Posted: 9/29/2017 1:23:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By home_alone1:


Can you do a quick rundown of it when you get it with a few pictures please ? I'm really considering one myself . I love my 9mm Steyr Aug but it's a bit heavy at almost 12 pounds loaded with all the accessories  and it's 26" long. Looking for something  a bit lighter with a 3 lug for my octane. Spent to much money on the Aug platform, these now Ghm9 pistols look like a lot of gun for the money!
View Quote
If you wanted an APC or KH9 but hesitated because of the cost, this is a great gun.
Link Posted: 9/29/2017 11:37:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By home_alone1:


Can you do a quick rundown of it when you get it with a few pictures please ? I'm really considering one myself . I love my 9mm Steyr Aug but it's a bit heavy at almost 12 pounds loaded with all the accessories  and it's 26" long. Looking for something  a bit lighter with a 3 lug for my octane. Spent to much money on the Aug platform, these now Ghm9 pistols look like a lot of gun for the money!
View Quote
Will do. It will be a week till I have it though.
Link Posted: 9/30/2017 8:28:24 AM EDT
[#30]
I've had mine for a couple weeks now. Only a couple mags thru it, but it's an amazing gun.
Link Posted: 9/30/2017 11:58:27 AM EDT
[#31]
HB industries is selling a safety delete now and reduced power safety springs, ordered the delete for my P26.
Link Posted: 9/30/2017 8:41:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kanewtervalve:
HB industries is selling a safety delete now and reduced power safety springs, ordered the delete for my P26.
View Quote
For the Apc as well?
I'd likely do both of them. That safety is super stiff.
Link Posted: 9/30/2017 10:21:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By branflake12:

For the Apc as well?
I'd likely do both of them. That safety is super stiff.
View Quote
Yes, looks like it will work on several B&T weapons. 
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 7:00:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kanewtervalve:
HB industries is selling a safety delete now and reduced power safety springs, ordered the delete for my P26.
View Quote
It's advertised for the APC but will fit other B&T weapons (MP9 excluded), just like AR trigger groups (mil spec)
Link Posted: 10/2/2017 5:16:06 PM EDT
[#35]
FYI - was just notified that the USW is in-stock at ArmsUnlimited - $2,244.   In case anyone is looking to pick up one...

https://www.armsunlimited.com/USW-Universal-Service-Weapon-9mm-Pistol-w-Stock-p/bt-430001.htm
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 9:20:40 AM EDT
[#36]
OK, So i'm new to this PCC stuff. I have been waiting for over a year for LWRC to get off their asses and get there subgun out. but I don't think that is ever going to happen. so I went to buy a MPX, while there I saw a Zenith Z5p. almost bought it, until the guy tells me about the Magical Gun called a APC 9. So I am pretty much all set to pick up a APC9. but I have a quick question that I haven't been able to locate an answer to.
I have a Rugged Obsidian with a 3 lug adapter. Will that attach to the APC9 without a problem. 

I'm going the Brace route(which I may regret). I have a few SBR's but I want something that is small and good in a bag for traveling. 

Has anyone Tried to put one of these in a Vertx EDC Commuter Sling bag?

thanks in advance guys.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 10:35:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MacThePunisher:
OK, So i'm new to this PCC stuff. I have been waiting for over a year for LWRC to get off their asses and get there subgun out. but I don't think that is ever going to happen. so I went to buy a MPX, while there I saw a Zenith Z5p. almost bought it, until the guy tells me about the Magical Gun called a APC 9. So I am pretty much all set to pick up a APC9. but I have a quick question that I haven't been able to locate an answer to.
I have a Rugged Obsidian with a 3 lug adapter. Will that attach to the APC9 without a problem. 

I'm going the Brace route(which I may regret). I have a few SBR's but I want something that is small and good in a bag for traveling. 

Has anyone Tried to put one of these in a Vertx EDC Commuter Sling bag?

thanks in advance guys.
View Quote
The Obsidian with the 3 lug shouldn’t have any problems attaching to the APC9.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 11:11:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 59chevy:


The Obsidian with the 3 lug shouldn’t have any problems attaching to the APC9.
View Quote
Thanks, Now I just have to Bite the bullet and buy one. 
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 2:32:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MacThePunisher:
OK, So i'm new to this PCC stuff. I have been waiting for over a year for LWRC to get off their asses and get there subgun out. but I don't think that is ever going to happen. so I went to buy a MPX, while there I saw a Zenith Z5p. almost bought it, until the guy tells me about the Magical Gun called a APC 9. So I am pretty much all set to pick up a APC9. but I have a quick question that I haven't been able to locate an answer to.
I have a Rugged Obsidian with a 3 lug adapter. Will that attach to the APC9 without a problem. 

I'm going the Brace route(which I may regret). I have a few SBR's but I want something that is small and good in a bag for traveling. 

Has anyone Tried to put one of these in a Vertx EDC Commuter Sling bag?

thanks in advance guys.
View Quote
When I got mine,I was waiting for them to pull it out and handled 3 zenith and 1 mpx. The APC is noticeably better in every way I can think of. I was very impressed and plunked down the card right then.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 3:37:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Does anyone know what the GHM9 reciever is made of? Appears to be polymer, but havent seen for sure.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 3:43:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By branflake12:

When I got mine,I was waiting for them to pull it out and handled 3 zenith and 1 mpx. The APC is noticeably better in every way I can think of. I was very impressed and plunked down the card right then.
View Quote
Thanks for this. I am still going back and forth. I have an opportunity to pick up an Z5RS for 1400. So for the price of the APC9 I could get a Zenith and a T2. 

So, need to just settle my mind and just do it. There is just something about the Look of the Zenith. 

I am getting this as a travel piece and something for my wife to shoot, she is not a fan of my 556's. the apc look easier for a newer shooter to handle as well. 

 
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 4:25:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dhd1:
Does anyone know what the GHM9 reciever is made of? Appears to be polymer, but havent seen for sure.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dhd1:
Does anyone know what the GHM9 reciever is made of? Appears to be polymer, but havent seen for sure.
Lower is polymer, upper is metal. 

Originally Posted By MacThePunisher:
Originally Posted By branflake12:When I got mine,I was waiting for them to pull it out and handled 3 zenith and 1 mpx. The APC is noticeably better in every way I can think of. I was very impressed and plunked down the card right then.
Thanks for this. I am still going back and forth. I have an opportunity to pick up an Z5RS for 1400. So for the price of the APC9 I could get a Zenith and a T2. So, need to just settle my mind and just do it. There is just something about the Look of the Zenith. I am getting this as a travel piece and something for my wife to shoot, she is not a fan of my 556's. the apc look easier for a newer shooter to handle as well.  
I was hesitant to pick up another PCC after I handled and shot the MPX, I didn't feel that the price difference was justified over my Scorpion. Then I shot a suppressed APC9 and couldn't believe the difference in build quality, B&T firearms are in another league and worth the money IMO.
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 10:46:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MacThePunisher] [#43]
I picked up a APC9 this morning from Brownells. They are listed at $2035 with a brace and are running a $50 off Code. Figured I couldnt beat 1995 shipped W/brace. 
Thanks for the help guys, now I just need to try and find mags a little cheaper. 
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 12:00:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MacThePunisher:
I picked up a APC9 this morning from Brownells. They are listed at $2035 with a brace and are running a $50 off Code. Figured I couldnt beat 1995 shipped W/brace. 
Thanks for the help guys, now I just need to try and mind mags a little cheaper. 
View Quote
Congrats!
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 12:48:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MacThePunisher:
I picked up a APC9 this morning from Brownells. They are listed at $2035 with a brace and are running a $50 off Code. Figured I couldnt beat 1995 shipped W/brace. 
Thanks for the help guys, now I just need to try and mind mags a little cheaper. 
View Quote
Gunbroker often has APC9 mags for under $50 if you look around, from time to time.
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 10:12:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MacThePunisher:
I picked up a APC9 this morning from Brownells. They are listed at $2035 with a brace and are running a $50 off Code. Figured I couldnt beat 1995 shipped W/brace. 
Thanks for the help guys, now I just need to try and find mags a little cheaper. 
View Quote
if you have your C&R FFL (easy and only $30), brownells gives you dealer pricing on lots of things, including B&T mags for $55 before any discount codes. Just added 4 more.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 10:55:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Already have an APC9 with the SB Tactical Brace and was looking forward to getting ahold of a GHM9 to see what I thought.  Found two in stock today and was able to check it out up close.  Looks like the lower is the same as the APC but they've made the safety switch a little beefier.  Same quality build as the APC for quite a lot lower price.  They even included the fast mag loader in the box.  I didn't hesitate and put one on layaway.  B&T is definitely a next level company.  It looks like they are trying to build up a little more in America.  If so, we will probably see the parts availability we'd like.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 3:40:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: michealj] [#48]
Got to spend some time with my Rugged Obsidian at the range today. Ran it with the 3 lug on the APC9 and P26 in long and short configuration with both the 45 and 9mm end caps. I haven't been this excited for a suppressor in a long time.
The suppressed APC9 ran flawless for about 120 rounds of various 147gr. TMJ and HP loads. The P26 had a few FTF while suppressed. I have ran my evo9 on the P26 for about a thousand rounds and haven't had any issues, maybe it's time I cleaned it.
Terrible pictures I know, the lighting at the range sucks. These are the best of what I took.





Album
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 4:21:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Sweet.  I thought about the P26 but held out for the GHM9 in the end.  I don't have a can for my 9's yet but looking forward to getting one.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 11:06:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: STXDobie] [#50]
For those of you with factory SBR's or those that have SBR'd a pistol APC9/45, which stock do you prefer? The collapsible looks like the ticket but at $600+ it's a steep entry fee. Is the side folder the perfect length or do you find it too short or too long? I am considering buying a factory SBR with the collapsible but I want to be sure that stock isn't a turd first. Also, which stubby VFG are most using? Lastly, What's the current best price on 30-round magazines for the APC 9?

I went ahead and picked up the right-side safety delete and safety springs from HB Industries.  I could't stand where the safety lever hits the webbing on my right hand, super painful over time. I'd like to run a short arm lever on that side to keep the ambi aspect, but I can live with the delete until someone comes up with an alternative.
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B&T 9mm Carbine APC9 (Page 1 of 74)
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