Pried Open Winchester Safe

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pried Open Winchester Safe (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 7/21/2010 10:11:59 AM EDT

Hey guys, I need someone to post up the pics of that pried open Winchester that was on here a while ago. Also if anyone has pictures of pried open, cut open, ran over, etc........ safes of any brand then post them up here.

Posted: 7/21/2010 10:50:42 AM EDT

[#1]

Is your youtube broken? Lots of video out there.

Posted: 7/21/2010 12:24:26 PM EDT

[#2]

Winchester posted on Glocktalk?
Police pulled in as the bad guys where loading up the car.

Liberty Colonial 23 in Upstate NY
Safe was in out building while house was being worked on. Building was alarmed. By the time the police responded safe was empty and bad guys gone.
Pictures where taken at Liberty PA warehouse before it closed.

Remington Safe by Liberty
From NC or SC not sure. Was giving pictures by a safe sales rep. One of his dealers safes. The safe is now on displayed at the dealers store, just not sure where. So maybe someone on here has seen it? Was told all that was used was the Screw drivers to get it open.

Posted: 7/21/2010 12:45:23 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Is your youtube broken? Lots of video out there.

I am well aware of that. If only you know, what I know about the videos on youtube.

Im not looking for videos. I want pics of pried open safes.

Posted: 7/21/2010 1:02:12 PM EDT

[#4]

Looks like none of those have top or bottom bolts. But damn those side bolts seemed to fold over pretty easily.

Posted: 7/21/2010 1:20:11 PM EDT

[#5]

Its the hardware inside the door that folds over easy.

Posted: 7/22/2010 8:01:36 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Looks like none of those have top or bottom bolts. But damn those side bolts seemed to fold over pretty easily.

Most cheap safes don't actually support those big bolts with anything, they're all for looks. They're bolted to thin metal brackets using 1/4" bolts and without any internal support they just easily bend out of the way.

Posted: 7/22/2010 8:07:53 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is your youtube broken? Lots of video out there.

I am well aware of that. If only you know, what I know about the videos on youtube.

Im not looking for videos. I want pics of pried open safes.

What is your goal? If you want to know the major failure of the 'safes', possibly to question the safety of your own or a future purchase, look no further than the rating label inside the door. One is pictured above. RSC says it all. It is a rating that UL developed for these boxes that did not meet any of their standards for a real safe.

What the videos will show you is how quickly these cheap boxes can be compromised with very simple hand tools. Regardless of manufacturer, if it only has an RSC rating, it will offer a guarantee of security that is no better than any one pictured above. A false sense of security.

Posted: 7/22/2010 8:38:49 AM EDT

[#8]

I work for a safe company, open safes, and sell safes for a living. I actually posted the "Security on Sale" video on youtube. I started this thread to get a compilation of break in pics. I know plenty about safes.

Posted: 7/22/2010 8:43:18 AM EDT

[#9]

Opened with a pair of screwdrivers?????? WTF????

Posted: 7/22/2010 8:57:05 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Opened with a pair of screwdrivers?????? WTF????

Its only a 12ga body and 12ga door. The bolts are 1" steel, but they are only bolted to 12ga steel.
That is why when you are looking at a low end safe, you want top and bottom bolts.
When you only have a 12ga. door(cannon, Liberty, champion, stackon, sentry, etc), Top and bottom won't stop someone, but just makes it alot harder.

Posted: 7/22/2010 9:01:10 AM EDT

[#11]

Sometimes the top and bottom bolts wont even help if it is 12ga. Continous welds, and thick steel supports inside the door are a must.

Posted: 9/25/2010 6:50:05 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Opened with a pair of screwdrivers?????? WTF????

Its only a 12ga body and 12ga door. The bolts are 1" steel, but they are only bolted to 12ga steel.
That is why when you are looking at a low end safe, you want top and bottom bolts.
When you only have a 12ga. door(cannon, Liberty, champion, stackon, sentry, etc), Top and bottom won't stop someone, but just makes it alot harder.

The Champion Crown and Triumph Series are 10gauge body steel and all their safes are continuously welded.

Posted: 9/25/2010 6:58:03 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Opened with a pair of screwdrivers?????? WTF????

Its only a 12ga body and 12ga door. The bolts are 1" steel, but they are only bolted to 12ga steel.
That is why when you are looking at a low end safe, you want top and bottom bolts.
When you only have a 12ga. door(cannon, Liberty, champion, stackon, sentry, etc), Top and bottom won't stop someone, but just makes it alot harder.

The Champion Crown and Triumph Series are 10gauge body steel and all their safes are continuously welded.

What was your main point? Champion makes a low end safe that is made in mexico that does not have very good security or fire protection.

Posted: 9/26/2010 10:10:33 PM EDT

[#14]

Well, that's going to keep me up at night...

Posted: 9/26/2010 10:38:24 PM EDT

[#15]

Ok, so what safe do the experts in this thread recommend for a decent price??????

Posted: 9/27/2010 6:58:38 AM EDT

[#16]

What do you consider a decent price?

Posted: 9/27/2010 7:49:31 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Well, that's going to keep me up at night...

+1 on that.

Will have to spend more on the next safe.

Posted: 9/29/2010 4:49:44 PM EDT

[#18]

Where you put the safe can make a big difference if you can't use/can't afford a massize, heavy duty safe. Bolt it to the floor in a corner where the door opens against a wall. That makes it much more difficult to pry open.

Posted: 9/29/2010 5:23:04 PM EDT

[#19]

1/2" thick door on my AMSEC...

Any break in pics of the BF series?

Posted: 10/3/2010 6:38:43 PM EDT

[#20]

Posted: 10/3/2010 11:15:20 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/1563718_3942053_69542582_Web_3/0_0_fa60c615dcf77da2d42a446ffd3d11bf_1

Details please, believe it or not, thats not a very explanatory picture.

Posted: 10/3/2010 11:22:06 PM EDT

[#22]

I really need a better safe... fucking screw drivers.

Posted: 10/4/2010 7:58:02 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/1563718_3942053_69542582_Web_3/0_0_fa60c615dcf77da2d42a446ffd3d11bf_1

Details please, believe it or not, thats not a very explanatory picture.

My take: cash safe with 1/2" door that was cut open. Looks like they simply cut out the areas where the bolts engage the frame. Probably took a little time and made allot of noise, but it looks effective.

Posted: 10/4/2010 11:08:21 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/1563718_3942053_69542582_Web_3/0_0_fa60c615dcf77da2d42a446ffd3d11bf_1

Details please, believe it or not, thats not a very explanatory picture.

It looks like a cheap safe to me.

There are no bolts or dead bar on the hinge-side of the door to protect against hinge attack.

It looks like the bolt rail (the metal that surrounds the lock area and through which the bolts normally protrude) is made out of thin sheet metal instead of plate.

The body looks to be made out of thin sheet metal with some type of liner for fire protection.

The door looks to be about 1/4" plate. It has one wimpy weld securing each hinge to the door - not much more than spot welds.

Definitely not a "real" safe nor a commercial-rate safe.

ETA: Upon closer inspection, it looks like the "fire protection" is just some carpet that was placed on the interior of the safe.

Posted: 10/4/2010 7:15:43 PM EDT

[#25]

Is that a drop safe or a floor safe? I have something suprising to say if thats the safe I think it is.

Posted: 10/4/2010 8:33:08 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Is that a drop safe or a floor safe? I have something suprising to say if thats the safe I think it is.

Its a drop safe.

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/1563718_3942053_69542582_Web_3/0_0_fa60c615dcf77da2d42a446ffd3d11bf_1

Details please, believe it or not, thats not a very explanatory picture.

It looks like a cheap safe to me. Correct about $300

There are no bolts or dead bar on the hinge-side of the door to protect against hinge attack. Correct.

It looks like the bolt rail (the metal that surrounds the lock area and through which the bolts normally protrude) is made out of thin sheet metal instead of plate. If I recall it thwas thicker steel. The thin steel is just covering of the lock itself from the interior.

The body looks to be made out of thin sheet metal with some type of liner for fire protection. I think it was 1/4 steel frame and 1/2 steel door but it could have just been a heavy gauge steel body. Don't recall.

The door looks to be about 1/4" plate. It has one wimpy weld securing each hinge to the door - not much more than spot welds.

Definitely not a "real" safe nor a commercial-rate safe. Just to keep honest people honest, and stop the "smash and grab" types.

ETA: Upon closer inspection, it looks like the "fire protection" is just some carpet that was placed on the interior of the safe.

Yes it was carpet it was so if a gun or metal was dropped down it, it wouldn't make so much noise.

Girl in the office went out back for a "smoke break" and this happened. I was coming back to the office when I saw them haul ass out of the parking lot. They didn't see me. Didn't know what happened but knew something was not right, so I followed till the girl in the office called me and told me what happened. They pulled into the back of a vacant industrial area, and I waited. When the noise subsided, I moved in.............................................................This is what I found as I rounded the corner, with an MP5 and three guys had just opened it. Won't go into much more details, but they didn't get any of the money. All that work for noting.

I went back to our office, walked in, grabbed all her shit, through it in a trash bag and tossed it out in the street. Told her to get the fuck out and never come back, don't even call for your last paycheck cause its going for a new depository.

ETA: The top is on the left of the picture. The bottom of the safe is on the right. Between the two bricks is the handle to spin the depository.

Posted: 10/4/2010 9:00:48 PM EDT

[#27]

So they stole the whole safe then, so it wasn't bolted down I assume?

Just about every standard depository safe is contructed the same way this safe is. They are desinged to be put in an alarmed business and bolted to the floor. The safe is never meant to be used as a means of long term cash storage. Mainly because the safe is not fire rated at all, cash easily would perish in a fire inside the safe. However most commercial building have alarms and sprinkler systems. So these safes are kind of thought as an industry standard for "a business safe". However, this safe is meant for drops, to be only left un-attended for short term amounts of time, and to be emptied at the end of the day into a cash storage safe, or to have the money deposited into the bank.

I think the main moral of the story here with this particular safe was "bolt down the safe."

Posted: 10/4/2010 9:08:55 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is that a drop safe or a floor safe? I have something suprising to say if thats the safe I think it is.

Its a drop safe.

Quoted:

It looks like a cheap safe to me. Correct about $300

There are no bolts or dead bar on the hinge-side of the door to protect against hinge attack. Correct.

It looks like the bolt rail (the metal that surrounds the lock area and through which the bolts normally protrude) is made out of thin sheet metal instead of plate. If I recall it thwas thicker steel. The thin steel is just covering of the lock itself from the interior.

The body looks to be made out of thin sheet metal with some type of liner for fire protection. I think it was 1/4 steel frame and 1/2 steel door but it could have just been a heavy gauge steel body. Don't recall.

The door looks to be about 1/4" plate. It has one wimpy weld securing each hinge to the door - not much more than spot welds.

Definitely not a "real" safe nor a commercial-rate safe. Just to keep honest people honest, and stop the "smash and grab" types.

ETA: Upon closer inspection, it looks like the "fire protection" is just some carpet that was placed on the interior of the safe.

Yes it was carpet it was so if a gun or metal was dropped down it, it wouldn't make so much noise.

Girl in the office went out back for a "smoke break" and this happened. I was coming back to the office when I saw them haul ass out of the parking lot. They didn't see me. Didn't know what happened but knew something was not right, so I followed till the girl in the office called me and told me what happened. They pulled into the back of a vacant industrial area, and I waited. When the noise subsided, I moved in.............................................................This is what I found as I rounded the corner, with an MP5 and three guys had just opened it. Won't go into much more details, but they didn't get any of the money. All that work for noting.

I went back to our office, walked in, grabbed all her shit, through it in a trash bag and tossed it out in the street. Told her to get the fuck out and never come back, don't even call for your last paycheck cause its going for a new depository.

ETA: The top is on the left of the picture. The bottom of the safe is on the right. Between the two bricks is the handle to spin the depository.

Thanks for all of the details. That is an incredible story.

Posted: 10/8/2010 10:17:21 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is that a drop safe or a floor safe? I have something suprising to say if thats the safe I think it is.

Its a drop safe.

Quoted:

It looks like a cheap safe to me. Correct about $300

There are no bolts or dead bar on the hinge-side of the door to protect against hinge attack. Correct.

It looks like the bolt rail (the metal that surrounds the lock area and through which the bolts normally protrude) is made out of thin sheet metal instead of plate. If I recall it thwas thicker steel. The thin steel is just covering of the lock itself from the interior.

The body looks to be made out of thin sheet metal with some type of liner for fire protection. I think it was 1/4 steel frame and 1/2 steel door but it could have just been a heavy gauge steel body. Don't recall.

The door looks to be about 1/4" plate. It has one wimpy weld securing each hinge to the door - not much more than spot welds.

Definitely not a "real" safe nor a commercial-rate safe. Just to keep honest people honest, and stop the "smash and grab" types.

ETA: Upon closer inspection, it looks like the "fire protection" is just some carpet that was placed on the interior of the safe.

Yes it was carpet it was so if a gun or metal was dropped down it, it wouldn't make so much noise.

Girl in the office went out back for a "smoke break" and this happened. I was coming back to the office when I saw them haul ass out of the parking lot. They didn't see me. Didn't know what happened but knew something was not right, so I followed till the girl in the office called me and told me what happened. They pulled into the back of a vacant industrial area, and I waited. When the noise subsided, I moved in.............................................................This is what I found as I rounded the corner, with an MP5 and three guys had just opened it. Won't go into much more details, but they didn't get any of the money. All that work for noting.

I went back to our office, walked in, grabbed all her shit, through it in a trash bag and tossed it out in the street. Told her to get the fuck out and never come back, don't even call for your last paycheck cause its going for a new depository.

ETA: The top is on the left of the picture. The bottom of the safe is on the right. Between the two bricks is the handle to spin the depository.

Thanks for all of the details. That is an incredible story.

So, was she in on it?

Posted: 10/8/2010 1:59:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Ok, so what safe do the experts in this thread recommend for a decent price??????

A safe from a closing down retailer. The kind of safe that breaks your wrist if the door closes on it. The safe might be cheap but moving it will not be, you have to find the right safe at the right time. Often times when one of these safes is moved walls must come down, that is why you gotta get it at the right time.

Posted: 10/10/2010 2:44:58 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
So, was she in on it?

Can't prove it, didn't care to, and nobody wanted to pursue it further. She never smoked that I knew of, but all of a sudden she was on a smoke break. The safe was not bolted, but rather had steal cables running through the mounting holes to a secure steel structure, because it had just been moved and was going to be bolted that same day. Somehow they knew to bring the biggest bolt cutters for the cable. Imagine that.

The depository was just for temporary keeping of money. Nothing ever stayed the night in it.

Posted: 10/11/2010 6:02:02 AM EDT

[#32]

Pretty much the opposite of what you want Snop ––- but here's a good example of why a "low end" safe needs to be bolted down.

Back story. These are from a residential burglary I investigated around two years ago. The suspect(s) had about an hour inside the house, made off with all the usual schwag (TV's, computers, etc) but couldn't get the safe open. The only attacks made against the safe itself were to the handle and they spent the bulk of their time attempting to get at the wall and floor bolts in order to take the whole thing. I think we'll all agree that safe depicted here is at the bottom of the security spectrum, but in this case, it did what it is advertised to do.

Back side of the wall

Posted: 10/11/2010 6:11:51 PM EDT

[#33]

Well, definitely was a bunch of idiots trying to break into it. However, the boltdown made all the difference in the world.

Posted: 10/11/2010 6:18:08 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Well, definitely was a bunch of idiots trying to break into it. However, the boltdown made all the difference in the world.

How true.

Posted: 10/15/2010 12:41:59 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/1563718_3942053_69542582_Web_3/0_0_fa60c615dcf77da2d42a446ffd3d11bf_1

What kind of business is this that has 60k a day in that thing??

Did you stack and rubber band the money for the pic? If not how do you drop 20k in there at a time?

Posted: 11/5/2010 7:47:39 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/1563718_3942053_69542582_Web_3/0_0_fa60c615dcf77da2d42a446ffd3d11bf_1

What kind of business is this that has 60k a day in that thing??

Did you stack and rubber band the money for the pic? If not how do you drop 20k in there at a time?

The rubber bands are just for $20k bricks. Easy to drop in one brink when you spin the depository. The bricks fit perfectly in this depoirtory top and when the bottom was opened, it wouldn't spill out 30 loose straps, but rather 3 large bricks. The pic is exactly as it was when I got to it. Snapped it with my phone.

Posted: 11/15/2010 11:51:54 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is your youtube broken? Lots of video out there.

I am well aware of that. If only you know, what I know about the videos on youtube.

Im not looking for videos. I want pics of pried open safes.

What is your goal? If you want to know the major failure of the 'safes', possibly to question the safety of your own or a future purchase, look no further than the rating label inside the door. One is pictured above. RSC says it all. It is a rating that UL developed for these boxes that did not meet any of their standards for a real safe.

What the videos will show you is how quickly these cheap boxes can be compromised with very simple hand tools. Regardless of manufacturer, if it only has an RSC rating, it will offer a guarantee of security that is no better than any one pictured above. A false sense of security.

There is a big differance between a safe with a 12 gauge body and thin door with minimal bolt coverage and one with a 4 or 7 gauge body, 4 sided bolt coverage, and beefy door. Yet, they will both be labeled a RSC.

Posted: 11/16/2010 7:49:19 PM EDT

[#38]

Because a good angle grinder doesn't care if it's 12g or 7g. Figure about twice as many wheels.

The main problem is unless the safe is positioned to deny access to the sides and top, those are what I'm going to cut off. The door thickness doesn't matter if a thin side is exposed. I'll make my own door in about 15 minutes.

But unfortunately due to purchase cost, rigging costs, and sheer weight of real safes, most of us are going to be stuck with RSC's. I've got one myself for the bedroom. No way I can have a 3,000 pound safe in an upstairs bedroom of a wood frame house. Just be very aware of their limitations and don't spend too much. Take pictures of the contents and be insured appropriately. Don't be storing jewels or cash in an RSC.. common sense type stuff.

I just hate seeing people blowing 2k+ on RSC's.... That's a waste of money. Spend money on a high-end combo lock for reliability and look for SIMPLE and TOUGH boltwork. The more bolts you have the more likely something is going to break or hang up, probably at a bad time. Remember it's a sheetmetal box.

Posted: 11/21/2010 6:05:53 PM EDT

[#39]

Has anyone opened up the inside of the door to their "safe" and added support to the bolts? I was also thinking of adding some metal inside to prevent the bolt contact point from being pried wider.

Posted: 11/22/2010 7:13:33 AM EDT

[#40]

It's not worth it for everything else that is wrong with the safe. The Chinese sheetrock, the low quality and un-reliable lock, the stitch welded body, and the thin construction. Just dont buy something else. It's a cheap safe, and there is a reason for that.

Posted: 11/23/2010 5:13:25 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Has anyone opened up the inside of the door to their "safe" and added support to the bolts? I was also thinking of adding some metal inside to prevent the bolt contact point from being pried wider.

+1. I had the same idea.
I felt I had a decent Summit safe until I opened up the door, the bolt supports werent too inmpressive

Hopefully someone will come along with some practical experience and solution to beef up the bolt supports.

Posted: 11/23/2010 6:29:44 AM EDT

[#42]

Just goes to show the importance of a decent set of locks, alarm system, and monitoring. The safe just buys you some time.

My local police station is literally just down the street. The last time I inadvertently triggered my home alarm, I had a police cruiser in my driveway in about two minutes flat.

Posted: 11/23/2010 6:37:54 AM EDT

[#43]

Yeah, some "L"-shaped brackets with a hole in them to allow the bolt to slide on it's path, even just one extra one per bolt would seem to have made a huge difference in those pry-job pictures.

Posted: 11/28/2010 7:25:21 AM EDT

[#44]

Heres one for ya.

It was not bolted down.
Theives turned it on its back and used the homeowners tools to bust the bolts loose.
Everything worth anything, gone.

Posted: 11/28/2010 8:59:10 AM EDT

[#45]

You have any more of that one? Do you have any higher quality pictures?

Posted: 11/28/2010 9:35:57 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Heres one for ya.

http://i56.tinypic.com/kbq1pe.jpg

It was not bolted down.
Theives turned it on its back and used the homeowners tools to bust the bolts loose.
Everything worth anything, gone.

That makes me nervous. I was pretty disappointed when I pulled the rock off my safe door. The mechanism connecting the bolts is pretty poor. I have the stack on elite. While it's better than nothing, I'm pretty nervous about it. I live way out in BFE which is good because there is rarely any traffic here, but at the same time I'm 30 minutes from any LE response.

Posted: 11/28/2010 11:34:41 AM EDT

[#47]

A jackson bar can do a lot of damage in a hurry...

Posted: 11/29/2010 2:54:13 AM EDT

[#48]

No I do not.
Not allot of info on it except it was a buddies.
His wives family heirlooms were inside. "Were" is the word to use.

Posted: 11/29/2010 4:44:17 AM EDT

[#49]

Here are a couple from a Sentry safe. This was also a residential burglary. Flipped onto its back and the door pried open, just like the others.

Posted: 11/29/2010 5:42:10 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Heres one for ya.

http://i56.tinypic.com/kbq1pe.jpg

It was not bolted down.
Theives turned it on its back and used the homeowners tools to bust the bolts loose.
Everything worth anything, gone.

You know what model of Heritage that is?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pried Open Winchester Safe (Page 1 of 2)

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