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Posted: 9/19/2016 5:43:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So I am buying a vacation home in the next state over. While I am keeping the drivers license from current state, I plan on getting an ID card (not a drivers license) from the state I am buying a vacation home. My question is how does the federal government determine residence? If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time? If I am able to buy guns in the state where the vacation home, they would stay there and not come back with me. ATF Ruling on State of Residence: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2010-6-state-residence/download |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 8:09:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
So I am buying a vacation home in the next state over. While I am keeping the drivers license from current state, I plan on getting an ID card (not a drivers license) from the state I am buying a vacation home. My question is how does the federal government determine residence? If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time? If I am able to buy guns in the state where the vacation home, they would stay there and not come back with me. Short answer is vacationing is not residency and I am sure the link DT provided will confirm that. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 8:39:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
So I am buying a vacation home in the next state over. While I am keeping the drivers license from current state, I plan on getting an ID card (not a drivers license) from the state I am buying a vacation home. My question is how does the federal government determine residence? If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time? If I am able to buy guns in the state where the vacation home, they would stay there and not come back with me. As a practical matter, if a customer puts down an address on the 4473 and then presents a state issued ID that shows that address I'm good. I'm not going to question him to find out if he lives at that residence full time or perhaps has another residence in another state. He put down an address. He backed up that address with an ID. What more is there? My advice is you don't even mention the other state/residence. The FFL doesn't need to know all the details of your life. But to address your legal question, if you read the instructions* for the 4473 you'll see this: If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your
current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2.) So, yeah, you're totally legit. Having that state issued ID will simplify things a lot, though. * Were you aware that when you sign a 4473 you are attesting to the fact that you have read the instructions? Who does that? I certify that my answers in Sections B and D are true, correct, and complete. I have read and understand the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions
on ATF Form 4473. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 8:37:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the info everyone. The "making a home" regulation seems vague at best. If I plant to spend about 2 months time (spread out over a year) at my other house, am I not making it a home? My wife is a teacher, so we plan on spending most 3 day weekends there, and going for a week at a time once or twice a year. It will be our home, away from the hustle and bustle of our everyday crazy lives. Somewhere we go to relax and live life. I guess I'm failing to see how I have to prove that I am "making a home".
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:25:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the info everyone. The "making a home" regulation seems vague at best. If I plant to spend about 2 months time (spread out over a year) at my other house, am I not making it a home? My wife is a teacher, so we plan on spending most 3 day weekends there, and going for a week at a time once or twice a year. It will be our home, away from the hustle and bustle of our everyday crazy lives. Somewhere we go to relax and live life. I guess I'm failing to see how I have to prove that I am "making a home". Did you read my post? The 4473 instructions address your situation directly. There is no issue here. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:26:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Hold on....
For a handgun purchase. I doubt you will find any FFL in your vacation state that will complete the sale unless you prove you are a resident of that state. Example.. Declaration of domicile, State issued ID with local address, 3 plus months of lease, rent, power bill. From a dealers point of view they care not for the story. Only what you can prove with documentation that you meet the requirements set forth. Legal or not under Federal guidelines. The dealer is going to Cover their ass. So if you go to purchase a handgun in your vacation state do not have story time with the dealer and tell them you only live there a few weeks a year. Just give them the documentation that shows intent to reside in the state and a valid ID. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:28:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold on.... For a handgun purchase. I doubt you will find any FFL in your vacation state that will complete the sale unless you prove you are a resident of that state. Example.. Declaration of domicile, State issued ID with local address, 3 plus months of lease, rent, power bill. From a dealers point of view they care not for the story. Only what you can prove with documentation that you meet the requirements set forth. Legal or not under Federal guidelines. The dealer is going to Cover their ass. So if you go to purchase a handgun in your vacation state do not have story time with the dealer and tell them you only live there a few weeks a year. Just give them the documentation that shows intent to reside in the state and a valid ID. Part in red: 
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:36:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold on.... For a handgun purchase. I doubt you will find any FFL in your vacation state that will complete the sale unless you prove you are a resident of that state. Example.. Declaration of domicile, State issued ID with local address, 3 plus months of lease, rent, power bill. No one requires this unless required by state law. If you want to buy a gun, you show your ID, fill out 4473 and walk out. Lease, power bills is nonsense. Being an FFL and having owned homes in multiple states I say this from experience. Now did anyone read DT link other than me? Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State. As I said, vacation travel does not make one a resident. So OP maybe you want to use different words. Perhaps you are Snowbird and not a vacationer? |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 10:13:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Part in red: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hold on.... For a handgun purchase. I doubt you will find any FFL in your vacation state that will complete the sale unless you prove you are a resident of that state. Example.. Declaration of domicile, State issued ID with local address, 3 plus months of lease, rent, power bill. From a dealers point of view they care not for the story. Only what you can prove with documentation that you meet the requirements set forth. Legal or not under Federal guidelines. The dealer is going to Cover their ass. So if you go to purchase a handgun in your vacation state do not have story time with the dealer and tell them you only live there a few weeks a year. Just give them the documentation that shows intent to reside in the state and a valid ID. Part in red: And the part in blue as well.
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Posted: 9/20/2016 12:07:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Here is a link to the 4473 form: https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download Read the instructions. The multiple residence thing is addressed TWICE, both in the current residence section and the state of residence section. Question 2. Current Residence Address:
U.S. Postal abbreviations are acceptable. (e.g., St., Rd., Dr., PA, NC, etc.). Address cannot be a post office box. County and Parish are one and the same.If the buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her permanent duty station is located, but does not reside at his or her permanent duty station, the buyer must list both his or her permanent duty station address and his or her residence address in response to question 2. If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2). Question 13. State of Residence:
The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty, his or her State of residence also is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2.) |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 12:28:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you read my post? The 4473 instructions address your situation directly. There is no issue here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thanks for the info everyone. The "making a home" regulation seems vague at best. If I plant to spend about 2 months time (spread out over a year) at my other house, am I not making it a home? My wife is a teacher, so we plan on spending most 3 day weekends there, and going for a week at a time once or twice a year. It will be our home, away from the hustle and bustle of our everyday crazy lives. Somewhere we go to relax and live life. I guess I'm failing to see how I have to prove that I am "making a home". Did you read my post? The 4473 instructions address your situation directly. There is no issue here. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 2:24:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Will the state for your vacation home issue a non-DL state ID card if you have a valid DL in another state?
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:05:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will the state for your vacation home issue a non-DL state ID card if you have a valid DL in another state? He doesn't actually need a photo ID from his vacation home state. Any government-issued document that shows his vacation home state address will supplement his photo ID. A tax document would suffice. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:07:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will the state for your vacation home issue a non-DL state ID card if you have a valid DL in another state? Yes from everything I have read. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:11:57 PM EDT
[#15]
I still fail to see where on the 4473 this is considered residency:
"If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks,..." regardless of how many IDs you have. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:32:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still fail to see where on the 4473 this is considered residency: "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks,..." regardless of how many IDs you have. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still fail to see where on the 4473 this is considered residency: "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks,..." regardless of how many IDs you have. I liked your take on this better when you wrote this: Quoted:
If you want to buy a gun, you show your ID, fill out 4473 and walk out . . . |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:41:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I liked your take on this better when you wrote this: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I still fail to see where on the 4473 this is considered residency: "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks,..." regardless of how many IDs you have. I liked your take on this better when you wrote this: Quoted:
If you want to buy a gun, you show your ID, fill out 4473 and walk out . . . Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:47:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I still fail to see where on the 4473 this is considered residency: "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks,..." regardless of how many IDs you have. I liked your take on this better when you wrote this: Quoted: If you want to buy a gun, you show your ID, fill out 4473 and walk out . . . Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" Well I worded it wrong. It will be more of a weekend residence, just not a every weekend residence. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:51:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I worded it wrong. It will be more of a weekend residence, just not a every weekend residence. And on the ID thing... I got a resident VA/CHP without a VA/DL or VA/ID. Just needed a VA address. It has everything ATF requires so Passport + CHP and I had all I needed. So if the State ID does not work, you may want to look into the states CHP system for an ID. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 4:21:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" Do I need to quote the instructions again? |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 4:35:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do I need to quote the instructions again? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" Do I need to quote the instructions again? Yes, please tell me where in the instructions it says If you go to a vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, you are a resident. This is addressed in the link DT provided, but not on the 4473. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 5:07:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, please tell me where in the instructions it says If you go to a vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, you are a resident. This is addressed in the link DT provided, but not on the 4473. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" Do I need to quote the instructions again? Yes, please tell me where in the instructions it says If you go to a vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, you are a resident. This is addressed in the link DT provided, but not on the 4473. You're getting hung up on the word vacation. The OP is asking about a situation in which he OWNS TWO HOMES. That is directly addressed in the text I quoted above. You're just trying to be argumentative. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 5:55:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're getting hung up on the word vacation. The OP is asking about a situation in which he OWNS TWO HOMES. That is directly addressed in the text I quoted above. You're just trying to be argumentative. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, but his question was NOT how do I buy a gun or fill out a 4473, but "If I go my vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, and I considered a resident of that state during that time?" Do I need to quote the instructions again? Yes, please tell me where in the instructions it says If you go to a vacation home and stay for 2 weeks, you are a resident. This is addressed in the link DT provided, but not on the 4473. You're getting hung up on the word vacation. The OP is asking about a situation in which he OWNS TWO HOMES. That is directly addressed in the text I quoted above. You're just trying to be argumentative. No it isn't addressed. You are confusing owning homes with residences. They are not the same. For example right now I own 4 homes but I only have one state of residence. The 4473 tells you how to fill out the form if you have dual residency, but it does not tell you if you are legally a dual resident. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 6:06:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it isn't addressed. You are confusing owning homes with residences. They are not the same. For example right now I own 4 homes but I only have one state of residence. The 4473 tells you how to fill out the form if you have dual residency, but it does not tell you if you are legally a dual resident. OK, I'm done. I'll fall back to my original answer, "As a practical matter . . . " If a customer puts down an address and presents documentation that supports that address how the hell do know differently and why should I care? |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 6:43:45 PM EDT
[#25]
I sold guns, retail, to those folks who were living in their own vacation home in the state of sale if they could show me government-issued identification from the local state of sale -- a CCW, DMV ID, and fishing-hunting license with the local address all worked.
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Posted: 9/20/2016 8:44:58 PM EDT
[#26]
If you only spend 2 weeks a year at your vacation home, I would not use the dual residency. Not worth the hassle. If you are at your SECOND HOME, intending to reside for whatever period, you are good to go. If you stopped by your second home to check for rain damage and then head to primary home state, you are not a resident for the purpose of buying a firearm on that trip Use a passport and tax document. Don't pull your out of state ID unless you previously established that the ffl knows what hes doing with this process. Many don't and will deny you, some won't touch it regardless. Some will not accept a passport. Nervous Nellies. Not judging. Their business, their rules. |
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