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Posted: 2/2/2015 9:28:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Home based?
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Posted: 2/2/2015 10:07:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I'm sole proprietor on my license. I just bought a Glock as a private individual, did the 4473 etc. Does this gun have to go in my official FFL documentation? Thanks YES |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 10:32:00 PM EDT
[#3]
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Home based? Uhhhhhhh.............why would that matter? 
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Posted: 2/3/2015 7:52:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uhhhhhhh.............why would that matter?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Home based? Uhhhhhhh.............why would that matter?
Because if home based, I'd say yes. Long it in then log it back out then back in on your personal book. If a brick and mortar store I'd say I'm not sure. |
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Posted: 2/3/2015 9:20:15 AM EDT
[#5]
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Because if home based, I'd say yes. Long it in then log it back out then back in on your personal book. If a brick and mortar store I'd say I'm not sure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Home based? Uhhhhhhh.............why would that matter?
Because if home based, I'd say yes. Long it in then log it back out then back in on your personal book. If a brick and mortar store I'd say I'm not sure. Whaaaat? The regs are the same for both. To answer the OP's question; yes it needs to go in your book. |
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Posted: 2/3/2015 10:11:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Log it in to your bound book then log it out 'to personal collection' At least that's what I was told by my ATF inspector.
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Posted: 2/3/2015 8:25:56 PM EDT
[#7]
One reason I did the LLC thing.................... now when I go to Tulsa I can buy for two, myself or for the company.
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Posted: 2/3/2015 9:00:47 PM EDT
[#8]
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One reason I did the LLC thing.................... now when I go to Tulsa I can buy for two, myself or for the company. Whut? |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 8:12:01 AM EDT
[#9]
I never understood the whole "logging out to personal collection" thing anyway.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 10:00:24 AM EDT
[#10]
I just got this FFl and trying to wade through all the regulations makes me want to just send it back
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Posted: 2/4/2015 10:16:33 AM EDT
[#11]
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I just got this FFl and trying to wade through all the regulations makes me want to just send it back It's not complicated, just read the laws and regulations. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:37:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got this FFl and trying to wade through all the regulations makes me want to just send it back It's not complicated. You're an FFL now, not a private individual. As a sole prop anything you buy goes into your book. If you want it for yourself, just log it out to "owner's personal collection." |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 12:07:41 PM EDT
[#13]
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I never understood the whole "logging out to personal collection" thing anyway. Licensees who are "sole proprietors" may log the disposition to themselves by merely writing "DogtownTom Personal Collection" in the bound book, no 4473/NICS required. While licensed, any firearm they acquire by any means must be recorded as an acquisition. It doesn't matter if they bought it via a 4473 from another dealer or found it under a rock. vs. Licensees who are corporations, LLC's, etc must complete a 4473/NICS on themselves in order to transfer a firearm from their inventory to their personal collection. While YOU may own 100% of Big Bubba Tactical Guns & Ninja Supply, Inc........the firearms are possessed by the licensee who is a corporation (BBTGNS), not you personally. If you were to mark "personal collection" as the disposition, your next compliance inspection will be interesting. Only firearms you acquire via your FFL need to be recorded in your bound book. If you see a gun at another dealer and want it for yourself you just do a 4473/NICS and its yours.....no need to record the acquisition because the corporation didn't acquire it. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 1:03:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Licensees who are "sole proprietors" may log the disposition to themselves by merely writing "DogtownTom Personal Collection" in the bound book, no 4473/NICS required. While licensed, any firearm they acquire by any means must be recorded as an acquisition. It doesn't matter if they bought it via a 4473 from another dealer or found it under a rock. vs. Licensees who are corporations, LLC's, etc must complete a 4473/NICS on themselves in order to transfer a firearm from their inventory to their personal collection. While YOU may own 100% of Big Bubba Tactical Guns & Ninja Supply, Inc........the firearms are possessed by the licensee who is a corporation (BBTGNS), not you personally. If you were to mark "personal collection" as the disposition, your next compliance inspection will be interesting. Only firearms you acquire via your FFL need to be recorded in your bound book. If you see a gun at another dealer and want it for yourself you just do a 4473/NICS and its yours.....no need to record the acquisition because the corporation didn't acquire it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I never understood the whole "logging out to personal collection" thing anyway. Licensees who are "sole proprietors" may log the disposition to themselves by merely writing "DogtownTom Personal Collection" in the bound book, no 4473/NICS required. While licensed, any firearm they acquire by any means must be recorded as an acquisition. It doesn't matter if they bought it via a 4473 from another dealer or found it under a rock. vs. Licensees who are corporations, LLC's, etc must complete a 4473/NICS on themselves in order to transfer a firearm from their inventory to their personal collection. While YOU may own 100% of Big Bubba Tactical Guns & Ninja Supply, Inc........the firearms are possessed by the licensee who is a corporation (BBTGNS), not you personally. If you were to mark "personal collection" as the disposition, your next compliance inspection will be interesting. Only firearms you acquire via your FFL need to be recorded in your bound book. If you see a gun at another dealer and want it for yourself you just do a 4473/NICS and its yours.....no need to record the acquisition because the corporation didn't acquire it. I get that. Since the sole prop or LLC already own the guns, what's the point of logging them to a personal collection? Leave them as aquired and use them as you see fit. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 1:22:41 PM EDT
[#15]
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I get that. Since the sole prop or LLC already own the guns, what's the point of logging them to a personal collection? Leave them as aquired and use them as you see fit. To reflect where the gun(s) are. If I am SP and my shop is not my home, when compliance inspection comes and they do inventory, personal guns will be at my house not at my shop. So the log out reflects why it is not in the shop. IMO, if it is not stored in your shop safe each night, I would log it out. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 1:29:41 PM EDT
[#16]
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To reflect where the gun(s) are. If I am SP and my shop is not my home, when compliance inspection comes and they do inventory, personal guns will be at my house not at my shop. So the log out reflects why it is not in the shop. IMO, if it is not stored in your shop safe each night, I would log it out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I get that. Since the sole prop or LLC already own the guns, what's the point of logging them to a personal collection? Leave them as aquired and use them as you see fit. To reflect where the gun(s) are. If I am SP and my shop is not my home, when compliance inspection comes and they do inventory, personal guns will be at my house not at my shop. So the log out reflects why it is not in the shop. IMO, if it is not stored in your shop safe each night, I would log it out. This. If the gun isn't in 'inventory' on the business premises and available for inspection it needs to be logged out. Not doing so opens up a can of worms, ATF coming into your home during an inspection etc. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 1:35:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To reflect where the gun(s) are. If I am SP and my shop is not my home, when compliance inspection comes and they do inventory, personal guns will be at my house not at my shop. So the log out reflects why it is not in the shop. IMO, if it is not stored in your shop safe each night, I would log it out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I get that. Since the sole prop or LLC already own the guns, what's the point of logging them to a personal collection? Leave them as aquired and use them as you see fit. To reflect where the gun(s) are. If I am SP and my shop is not my home, when compliance inspection comes and they do inventory, personal guns will be at my house not at my shop. So the log out reflects why it is not in the shop. IMO, if it is not stored in your shop safe each night, I would log it out. That makes sense. The company guns are always either with me or locked up at the shop. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 5:25:32 PM EDT
[#18]
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....... Since the sole prop or LLC already own the guns Quote HistoryQuoted:
....... Since the sole prop or LLC already own the guns Do you understand the difference between sole proprietorship and an LLC? You cannot be both. A licensee operating as an LLC must follow the same procedures as a corporation because the LLC owns and maintains possession, not an individual. what's the point of logging them to a personal collection? After one year the firearm may be disposed of without need for a 4473/NICS. All that is required is noting the transferees name and address. Leave them as aquired and use them as you see fit. Sure you can do that. But some do not like mixing business inventory with personal firearms. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#19]
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Whut? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One reason I did the LLC thing.................... now when I go to Tulsa I can buy for two, myself or for the company. Whut? What do you mean by "whut"???????????????????????????????????? 
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. This info is directly from my ATF inspector because I asked him about it. When I was sole proprietor I actually needed to log every gun purchase I made into my AD book whether I purchased for keeps or to resell. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 8:18:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean by "whut"????????????????????????????????????
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. This info is directly from my ATF inspector because I asked him about it. When I was sole proprietor I actually needed to log every gun purchase I made into my AD book whether I purchased for keeps or to resell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
One reason I did the LLC thing.................... now when I go to Tulsa I can buy for two, myself or for the company. Whut? What do you mean by "whut"????????????????????????????????????
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. This info is directly from my ATF inspector because I asked him about it. When I was sole proprietor I actually needed to log every gun purchase I made into my AD book whether I purchased for keeps or to resell. "Whut?" means your explanation made no sense to me......because a sole proprietor can do the EXACT same thing at Tulsa as a licensee with an LLC. I record personal firearms just like I did before I had my FFL. It's no big deal. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 8:47:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. No. You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections. That is a felony. An SP can, and will not have to 4473 them to himself either. And anything you as a private individual do acquire out-of-state is limited to long guns and laws of both states. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 10:32:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections. That is a felony. An SP can, and will not have to 4473 them to himself either. And anything you as a private individual do acquire out-of-state is limited to long guns and laws of both states. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. No. You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections. That is a felony. An SP can, and will not have to 4473 them to himself either. And anything you as a private individual do acquire out-of-state is limited to long guns and laws of both states. Yup everyone knows that. Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. And we all know everyone at gun shows follow the law to a "T"! |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:18:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup everyone knows that. Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. And we all know everyone at gun shows follow the law to a "T"! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. No. You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections. That is a felony. An SP can, and will not have to 4473 them to himself either. And anything you as a private individual do acquire out-of-state is limited to long guns and laws of both states. Yup everyone knows that. Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. And we all know everyone at gun shows follow the law to a "T"! Well everyone but you and the ATF guy knows that. And your reinterpretation is still wrong. Private sales of long guns are NOT good to go. as already stated, "You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections." |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:25:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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Well everyone but you and the ATF guy knows that. And your reinterpretation is still wrong. Private sales of long guns are NOT good to go. as already stated, "You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since I have LLC'd I am an employee of my gun business only, aka, member. So, if I go to the Tulsa gun show I can buy two ways, as a private individual and fill out 4473's or just buy from a private collections. Or, I can buy as "Oak Tree Gun Store" and use the FFL from my business. No. You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections. That is a felony. An SP can, and will not have to 4473 them to himself either. And anything you as a private individual do acquire out-of-state is limited to long guns and laws of both states. Yup everyone knows that. Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. And we all know everyone at gun shows follow the law to a "T"! Well everyone but you and the ATF guy knows that. And your reinterpretation is still wrong. Private sales of long guns are NOT good to go. as already stated, "You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy out-of-state from private collections." Why not?? So you are saying a person could not go into the Tulsa Gun Show and purchase a long gun from a private collector set up to sell at the show?? |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:46:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not?? So you are saying a person could not go into the Tulsa Gun Show and purchase a long gun from a private collector set up to sell at the show?? You wrote: "Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. " Repeating: You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy/sell out-of-state to/from private collections. Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, does not matter. Why? Because GCA68 made it illegal. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:56:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I'm sole proprietor on my license. I just bought a Glock as a private individual, did the 4473 etc. Does this gun have to go in my official FFL documentation? Thanks NO |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:53:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm sole proprietor on my license. I just bought a Glock as a private individual, did the 4473 etc. Does this gun have to go in my official FFL documentation? Thanks NO Thanks for the laugh. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:09:27 AM EDT
[#28]
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Thanks for the laugh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I'm sole proprietor on my license. I just bought a Glock as a private individual, did the 4473 etc. Does this gun have to go in my official FFL documentation? Thanks NO Thanks for the laugh. No kidding. Just when you think the derp can't get any deeper......... 
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:38:33 AM EDT
[#29]
so the guy
buys a glock at the ( in his state )sports store fills out THERE 4473, and goes home. so that means he MUST re enter the glock into the world, by putting it in the A & D book THAT HE has? is that what the question is/was? wouldn't the A side of his book reflect the gun came from himself then back out to himself? why wouldn't the OTHER (FFL holding) store just log it out to the guys FFL (number) and then he MUST log it in and out... GUYs you are usually 100 -n- 50 % correct (i agree with you all the time), did i miss something, that memo slipped by me somehow...or..? bottom line, tracing trail, says ffl to person then person to ffl then ffl back to same person. 
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:45:09 AM EDT
[#30]
kinda means
(2) A&D books show it to the same name. as opposed to it (the gun) going FFL to FFL. (lotapaperwork) |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 7:49:01 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You wrote: "Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. " Repeating: You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy/sell out-of-state to/from private collections. Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, does not matter. Why? Because GCA68 made it illegal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why not?? So you are saying a person could not go into the Tulsa Gun Show and purchase a long gun from a private collector set up to sell at the show?? You wrote: "Private sales out of state handguns go through the FFL. Private sales long guns good to go. " Repeating: You as a private individual cannot [legally] buy/sell out-of-state to/from private collections. Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, does not matter. Why? Because GCA68 made it illegal. Then why can it be done at the Tulsa Gun Show? I'd think if that was against the law they'd have that place shut down in an instant! Example---- Private person with private collection sets up at Tulsa Gun show. He sells to anyone and everyone. No one is hauling his ass to jail......... just saying... To the OP: sorry for hijacking your post and to answer your question No |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 8:39:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then why can it be done at the Tulsa Gun Show? It can't be done... legally. Private sales across state lines are illegal as Renegade said. If I, as a non-FFL want to buy a firearm at Tulsa, it has to be shipped to my dealer in Virginia. No exceptions. If I, as an out-of-state dealer want to sell to non-FFLs at Tulsa, I can only take orders then ship to the purchasers FFL. No exceptions. The Federal Firearms Reference Guide, 2014 needs to be read front to back, repeatedly. Everything is in there. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:04:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Holy cow man. Maybe now he understands why the libs make such a big deal about the gun show loophole.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:48:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so the guy buys a glock at the ( in his state )sports store fills out THERE 4473, and goes home. so that means he MUST re enter the glock into the world, by putting it in the A & D book THAT HE has? is that what the question is/was? wouldn't the A side of his book reflect the gun came from himself then back out to himself? why wouldn't the OTHER (FFL holding) store just log it out to the guys FFL (number) and then he MUST log it in and out... GUYs you are usually 100 -n- 50 % correct (i agree with you all the time), did i miss something, that memo slipped by me somehow...or..? bottom line, tracing trail, says ffl to person then person to ffl then ffl back to same person.
You are beyond wrong. No, he'd list the sports store as the source not himself. He acquired it from them. He is an FFL. He can't play both sides of the fence now, he's no longer a non-licensed entity. You need to read up on the regulation. And also, the other store wouldn't log it out to his FFL because they don't know he is an FFL (he didn't tell them), plus he did not use his FFL to acquire it. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 10:37:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are beyond wrong. No, he'd list the sports store as the source not himself. He acquired it from them. He is an FFL. He can't play both sides of the fence now, he's no longer a non-licensed entity. You need to read up on the regulation. And also, the other store wouldn't log it out to his FFL because they don't know he is an FFL (he didn't tell them), plus he did not use his FFL to acquire it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so the guy buys a glock at the ( in his state )sports store fills out THERE 4473, and goes home. so that means he MUST re enter the glock into the world, by putting it in the A & D book THAT HE has? is that what the question is/was? wouldn't the A side of his book reflect the gun came from himself then back out to himself? why wouldn't the OTHER (FFL holding) store just log it out to the guys FFL (number) and then he MUST log it in and out... GUYs you are usually 100 -n- 50 % correct (i agree with you all the time), did i miss something, that memo slipped by me somehow...or..? bottom line, tracing trail, says ffl to person then person to ffl then ffl back to same person.
You are beyond wrong. No, he'd list the sports store as the source not himself. He acquired it from them. He is an FFL. He can't play both sides of the fence now, he's no longer a non-licensed entity. You need to read up on the regulation. And also, the other store wouldn't log it out to his FFL because they don't know he is an FFL (he didn't tell them), plus he did not use his FFL to acquire it. oh i get it... i'm just articulating it so its understandable. be kind, i have read and i do know the regs... so you are saying the gun left the store in HIS name now its OUT of the STORES name .... see where this is going like the SHARK TANK for that reason I"M OUT. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg . |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:26:43 AM EDT
[#36]
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oh i get it... i'm just articulating it so its understandable. be kind, i have read and i do know the regs... so you are saying the gun left the store in HIS name now its OUT of the STORES name .... see where this is going like the SHARK TANK for that reason I"M OUT. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so the guy buys a glock at the ( in his state )sports store fills out THERE 4473, and goes home. so that means he MUST re enter the glock into the world, by putting it in the A & D book THAT HE has? is that what the question is/was? wouldn't the A side of his book reflect the gun came from himself then back out to himself? why wouldn't the OTHER (FFL holding) store just log it out to the guys FFL (number) and then he MUST log it in and out... GUYs you are usually 100 -n- 50 % correct (i agree with you all the time), did i miss something, that memo slipped by me somehow...or..? bottom line, tracing trail, says ffl to person then person to ffl then ffl back to same person.
You are beyond wrong. No, he'd list the sports store as the source not himself. He acquired it from them. He is an FFL. He can't play both sides of the fence now, he's no longer a non-licensed entity. You need to read up on the regulation. And also, the other store wouldn't log it out to his FFL because they don't know he is an FFL (he didn't tell them), plus he did not use his FFL to acquire it. oh i get it... i'm just articulating it so its understandable. be kind, i have read and i do know the regs... so you are saying the gun left the store in HIS name now its OUT of the STORES name .... see where this is going like the SHARK TANK for that reason I"M OUT. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg . LOL!!! 
Too many internet ninjas here!! I'm outta here!! Woohoo!! |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:57:13 AM EDT
[#37]
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No kidding. Just when you think the derp can't get any deeper......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. Just when you think the derp can't get any deeper......... And deeper: Quoted:
To the OP: sorry for hijacking your post and to answer your question No The irony the OP is getting a "NO' answer from someone who claims to have an FFL does not know private purchases across state lines has been a felony since 1968.As HansonBrothers said, it is all in the FFRG/2014. The problem is you have to read it, you cannot put it under your pillow. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:02:00 PM EDT
[#38]
 Quote HistoryQuoted:
And deeper: The irony the OP is getting a "NO' answer from someone who claims to have an FFL does not know private purchases across state lines has been a felony since 1968.As HansonBrothers said, it is all in the FFRG/2014. The problem is you have to read it, you cannot put it under your pillow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No kidding. Just when you think the derp can't get any deeper......... And deeper: Quoted:
To the OP: sorry for hijacking your post and to answer your question No The irony the OP is getting a "NO' answer from someone who claims to have an FFL does not know private purchases across state lines has been a felony since 1968.As HansonBrothers said, it is all in the FFRG/2014. The problem is you have to read it, you cannot put it under your pillow. I'll be sure to pass this information along............ |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:11:50 PM EDT
[#39]
So much of this discussion revolves around conducting business in the legal manner which helps keep you out of hot water in the future. Are there loophole? Sure there are... But if we are in business and plan stay in business it is in our best interest to dot the I and cross the T, then we don’t have to explain if that Glock in the safe is mine, the LLC’s, or still on the books when the man arrives for a compliance inspection.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:32:37 PM EDT
[#40]
If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Of course my personally owned stuff is in a separate safe. ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 2:10:47 PM EDT
[#41]
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If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Of course my personally owned stuff is in a separate safe. ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course. That's odd, I had one and when I was inspected I was told I did not have to do that. He just gave me a stack of those folded forms you can give to people that you can list your guns on. My inspector said a log book for personal firearms is not required at anytime, SP or LLC. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!! Wait for it..................wait for it Now!! Attack!! |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 3:02:04 PM EDT
[#42]
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That's odd, I had one and when I was inspected I was told I did not have to do that. He just gave me a stack of those folded forms you can give to people that you can list your guns on. My inspector said a log book for personal firearms is not required at anytime, SP or LLC. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!! Wait for it..................wait for it Now!! Attack!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Of course my personally owned stuff is in a separate safe. ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course. That's odd, I had one and when I was inspected I was told I did not have to do that. He just gave me a stack of those folded forms you can give to people that you can list your guns on. My inspector said a log book for personal firearms is not required at anytime, SP or LLC. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!! Wait for it..................wait for it Now!! Attack!! "My inspector said...." doesn't mean jack shit. Read the regs. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 3:05:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Are you a sole proprietor? If so, you are in violation. .......ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course. What regulation is that? |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 3:19:13 PM EDT
[#44]
back to what dogtown or someone else posted, the reason for SP to log it in and then out to personal collection is so that you can't do an instant "private sale" without a NICS check. when I buy at a store, I always try to get them to do a transfer to my SP FFL. some places just wont or cant figure it out, so I fill out the 4473, list them on the Acquisition side and "superchief-personal collection" on the Disposition side.
Cabela's will do a transfer to an FFL, but the paper work they require seemed to take longer to fill out than a 4473. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 5:41:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"My inspector said...." doesn't mean jack shit. Read the regs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Of course my personally owned stuff is in a separate safe. ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course. That's odd, I had one and when I was inspected I was told I did not have to do that. He just gave me a stack of those folded forms you can give to people that you can list your guns on. My inspector said a log book for personal firearms is not required at anytime, SP or LLC. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!! Wait for it..................wait for it Now!! Attack!! "My inspector said...." doesn't mean jack shit. Read the regs. Me. Dogtown Tom, be sure to say that to your inspector the next time he or she is there. I'm sure it "IT WON'T MEAN SHIT" to them either. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 6:05:44 PM EDT
[#46]
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Me. Dogtown Tom, be sure to say that to your inspector the next time he or she is there. I'm sure it "IT WON'T MEAN SHIT" to them either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Of course my personally owned stuff is in a separate safe. ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course. That's odd, I had one and when I was inspected I was told I did not have to do that. He just gave me a stack of those folded forms you can give to people that you can list your guns on. My inspector said a log book for personal firearms is not required at anytime, SP or LLC. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!! Wait for it..................wait for it Now!! Attack!! "My inspector said...." doesn't mean jack shit. Read the regs. Me. Dogtown Tom, be sure to say that to your inspector the next time he or she is there. I'm sure it "IT WON'T MEAN SHIT" to them either. If the IOI spouts bullshit I have no problem telling him/her so. They work for me, the taxpaying, license paying citizen. 
My first AND second IOI's were always careful to show me the actual regulation. The first one said if I ever called him to ask a question he would refer me to the proper regulation. There are waaaay too many posts that start out with "My inspector said..." followed by absolute nonsense. The ATF regs aren't that difficult to read. What's sad is the number of licensees who have never read the instructions on the 4473, much less anything in the CFR. After reading many of the threads & posts in this forum, I'm surprised that ATF doesn't yank more FFL's than the .001% they already do. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 8:51:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the IOI spouts bullshit I have no problem telling him/her so. They work for me, the taxpaying, license paying citizen.
My first AND second IOI's were always careful to show me the actual regulation. The first one said if I ever called him to ask a question he would refer me to the proper regulation. There are waaaay too many posts that start out with "My inspector said..." followed by absolute nonsense. The ATF regs aren't that difficult to read. What's sad is the number of licensees who have never read the instructions on the 4473, much less anything in the CFR. After reading many of the threads & posts in this forum, I'm surprised that ATF doesn't yank more FFL's than the .001% they already do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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If I bought a gun from Cabelas and did not use my FFL and filled out a 4473 and was approved, walked out with my legally purchased weapon. I would not log it into my bound book. Of course my personally owned stuff is in a separate safe. ATF recommends you have a log of personally owned items of course. That's odd, I had one and when I was inspected I was told I did not have to do that. He just gave me a stack of those folded forms you can give to people that you can list your guns on. My inspector said a log book for personal firearms is not required at anytime, SP or LLC. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!! Wait for it..................wait for it Now!! Attack!! "My inspector said...." doesn't mean jack shit. Read the regs. Me. Dogtown Tom, be sure to say that to your inspector the next time he or she is there. I'm sure it "IT WON'T MEAN SHIT" to them either. If the IOI spouts bullshit I have no problem telling him/her so. They work for me, the taxpaying, license paying citizen.
My first AND second IOI's were always careful to show me the actual regulation. The first one said if I ever called him to ask a question he would refer me to the proper regulation. There are waaaay too many posts that start out with "My inspector said..." followed by absolute nonsense. The ATF regs aren't that difficult to read. What's sad is the number of licensees who have never read the instructions on the 4473, much less anything in the CFR. After reading many of the threads & posts in this forum, I'm surprised that ATF doesn't yank more FFL's than the .001% they already do. Mr. Dogtown Tom, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that the BATFE is not going to be hiring idiots that will be spouting off bullshit so you really do not have anything to worry about there. And I'm sure they "know" you are a tax paying license paying citizen that also is paying their wages too, don't forget that........ So, when your inspector says....................... to do what ever they are asking you to do you may want to do it, even if it's freshening up your memory on Statutes, CFR's and the like........................... |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:21:23 PM EDT
[#48]
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Mr. Dogtown Tom, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that the BATFE is not going to be hiring idiots that will be spouting off bullshit so you really do not have anything to worry about there. Ummmm..........lets see...in the last six years: -An ATF IOI in Washington state told a dealer that a licensee could only ship to my premises address. Bullshit and it took a call to the Western Regional Director who set him straight. -The ATF IOI who told me that "all firearms shipments must have a signature on delivery". Bullshit......ATF regs only require that on shipments via a common carrier. -The ATF IOI who told me that I could set up a table and sell at an out of state gunshow as long as I transferred the firearm to a local dealer for transfer to the customer. Bullshit, that's not legal and ATF has since sent out "What you can do at a Gunshow" brochures. -The ATF IOI who told me that AR lowers had to be designated as "Handgun" or "Long Gun" at the time of transfer. Bullshit. Apparently he hadn't read the instructions on the 4473. -The ATF IOI who did my first compliance inspection wanted to do the inspection at 9am. Bullshit. I told him my business hours are 5-10pm and I would be happy to meet then, but I cannot meet 8-5 because I'm a teacher. "but I have to have my car back to the motor pool by 5pm"..........he had no idea that federal law restricts compliance inspections to the licensees business hours. You want more IOI BULLSHIT stories? On the dealer forum they are a weekly occurrence. And I'm sure they "know" you are a tax paying license paying citizen that also is paying their wages too, don't forget that........ So, when your inspector says....................... to do what ever they are asking you to do you may want to do it, even if it's freshening up your memory on Statutes, CFR's and the like........................... Sorry, I'm not ATF's bitch. If the IOI is wrong I'll tell him so. If needed I'll call his supervisor. I make it a habit to know more about ATF regs than any IOI......you should too. Or you could just continue to take his word for it.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:28:59 PM EDT
[#49]
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Mr. Dogtown Tom, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that the BATFE is not going to be hiring idiots that will be spouting off bullshit so you really do not have anything to worry about there. Ummmm..........lets see...in the last six years: -An ATF IOI in Washington state told a dealer that a licensee could only ship to my premises address. Bullshit and it took a call to the Western Regional Director who set him straight. -The ATF IOI who told me that "all firearms shipments must have a signature on delivery". Bullshit......ATF regs only require that on shipments via a common carrier. -The ATF IOI who told me that I could set up a table and sell at an out of state gunshow as long as I transferred the firearm to a local dealer for transfer to the customer. Bullshit, that's not legal and ATF has since sent out "What you can do at a Gunshow" brochures. -The ATF IOI who told me that AR lowers had to be designated as "Handgun" or "Long Gun" at the time of transfer. Bullshit. Apparently he hadn't read the instructions on the 4473. -The ATF IOI who did my first compliance inspection wanted to do the inspection at 9am. Bullshit. I told him my business hours are 5-10pm and I would be happy to meet then, but I cannot meet 8-5 because I'm a teacher. "but I have to have my car back to the motor pool by 5pm"..........he had no idea that federal law restricts compliance inspections to the licensees business hours. You want more IOI BULLSHIT stories? On the dealer forum they are a weekly occurrence. And I'm sure they "know" you are a tax paying license paying citizen that also is paying their wages too, don't forget that........ So, when your inspector says....................... to do what ever they are asking you to do you may want to do it, even if it's freshening up your memory on Statutes, CFR's and the like........................... Sorry, I'm not ATF's bitch. If the IOI is wrong I'll tell him so. If needed I'll call his supervisor. I make it a habit to know more about ATF regs than any IOI......you should too. Or you could just continue to take his word for it.
Mr. Dogtown Tom, Just to let you in on a little secret............... I do know more than the "average bear"
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:44:24 PM EDT
[#50]
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Mr. Dogtown Tom, Just to let you in on a little secret............... I do know more than the "average bear"
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Mr. Dogtown Tom, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that the BATFE is not going to be hiring idiots that will be spouting off bullshit so you really do not have anything to worry about there. Ummmm..........lets see...in the last six years: -An ATF IOI in Washington state told a dealer that a licensee could only ship to my premises address. Bullshit and it took a call to the Western Regional Director who set him straight. -The ATF IOI who told me that "all firearms shipments must have a signature on delivery". Bullshit......ATF regs only require that on shipments via a common carrier. -The ATF IOI who told me that I could set up a table and sell at an out of state gunshow as long as I transferred the firearm to a local dealer for transfer to the customer. Bullshit, that's not legal and ATF has since sent out "What you can do at a Gunshow" brochures. -The ATF IOI who told me that AR lowers had to be designated as "Handgun" or "Long Gun" at the time of transfer. Bullshit. Apparently he hadn't read the instructions on the 4473. -The ATF IOI who did my first compliance inspection wanted to do the inspection at 9am. Bullshit. I told him my business hours are 5-10pm and I would be happy to meet then, but I cannot meet 8-5 because I'm a teacher. "but I have to have my car back to the motor pool by 5pm"..........he had no idea that federal law restricts compliance inspections to the licensees business hours. You want more IOI BULLSHIT stories? On the dealer forum they are a weekly occurrence. And I'm sure they "know" you are a tax paying license paying citizen that also is paying their wages too, don't forget that........ So, when your inspector says....................... to do what ever they are asking you to do you may want to do it, even if it's freshening up your memory on Statutes, CFR's and the like........................... Sorry, I'm not ATF's bitch. If the IOI is wrong I'll tell him so. If needed I'll call his supervisor. I make it a habit to know more about ATF regs than any IOI......you should too. Or you could just continue to take his word for it.
Mr. Dogtown Tom, Just to let you in on a little secret............... I do know more than the "average bear"
Apparently not. See RenegadeX's reply to the legalities of your Tulsa trips.
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