The contestants:
~MSAR STG-E4 Rail 16" 1/8 twist
~Les Baer M4 Police Special 16" 1/8 twist

Optics (same unit used on both):
~Burris XTR-14 1-4x30 5.56 Ballistic Ret.

Ammo:
~Hornady Match 55gn.

Range: 50m, 65F degrees, no wind



Shot Les Baer first to zero scope and then shot 3 round group standing using post as rest.

Result: Satisfying standing group from a guaranteed 1 MOA rifle


Now I remove the Burris from the Les Baer and attach to the E4, sight in, and shot a 3 shot group in the same position.

Result: Priceless


Needless to say I was shocked that MSAR, as a relatively new company, was able to meet and even surpass the abilities of the Baer. As far as the overall handling of the E4, I can't even compare it to any AR style rifle. The E4 shoots and handles very similarly to my PS90 in both point, followup control, and recoil.

Opening up an E4 is like xmas morning. MSAR did a great job of including all of the necessities without going overboard. I opted for the railed model for flexibility, and boy are there rails––not two, not three, but four T-marked rails right out of the box and hard points to accommodate three more. Also as of late, companies have been increasingly stingy with magazines for whatever reason. The E4 box includes 5 (yes five) translucent amber waffle mags. I dream of the day FNH does that with the PS90. Other goodies include tools, screws for rails, and quick-detach sling studs––I felt like a bandit after grabbing one at the new price. I did have a bit of difficulty with the magazines not wanting to release at first and the very first round was stubborn going into battery, but once the "new" wore off, everything functioned flawlessly. I work at a gun store with a shooting range in the basement, so naturally upon picking up my new toy, I went directly there to show it off. After passing it around and shooting a little, 2 of them placed orders because they just couldn't live without their own STG. I have actually been entertaining thoughts of selling the Baer and buying a second

=> UPDATE<=

I finally got a chance to make it out to the range today to stack these two rifles up against each other at longer range, per request.
I shot two groups with each, using the same box of ammo listed above, and allowed 3 minutes with open breech between shots.

Distance: 150 meters, sandbagged on bench.
Temp: 61F, no wind

Les Baer groups:




E4 groups:

GREAT REPORT!

What are your general impressions of the Burris XTR on the E4?

great report my thoughts exactly

Ditto, My buddy is wanting to run the same on his.

Excellent grouping.

Once a person recognizes the difference in the triggers between the STG and the AR and adapts they can achieve excellent accuracy at intermediate distances.

I was really surprised at the accuracy I got with my new 20" E4 and factory 1.5 optic when I shot it for the first time last week.

I was shooting groups that people usually challenge here as BS.   I was surprised myself.   I did far better than I did with my Bushmaster, Aimpoint, and 3x Aimpoint Magnifier setup.

I am very impressed with the Burris. I wanted to put a red dot on it but at the same time I wanted some magnification for shooting at a distance and the majority of the market seems to be either fixed magnification or none. When this came into the shop, I liked the features but thought it to be a little large but I think it looks good on the E4. The clarity is impressive and light transmission is great with the 30mm tube, not to mention the illuminated horseshoe ballistic reticule is both cool and easy to use. I do notice a little bit of a fish-eye effect on the 1x setting (no magnification) but it is just noticeable. I am using it with a Pro-Mag rail mount which does like to claim bits of my hand if I do anything but "palm up" when operating the charging handle. I may be looking for an alternate mounting method soon...

but..but..but...bullpups aren't accurate.



NICE

Move it out past 50 meters and do five or ten shot groups and I doubt the STG could keep up with the LB.

I am going to buy a STG for sure but I havent seen anything that show they are consistently more accurate than a ar, especially a high end AR

I do plan on visiting the 200m range as soon as it stops raining. Hopefully Sunday...I'll keep you guys posted

That would be great. I really look forward to your results

Thanks.  Any more pics of that setup would be appreciated.

How forgiving is the eye relief?

Eye relief is surprisingly forgiving. I'm estimating around 3" of play to get a full picture and the way it sits combined with the way the E4 points, it is always within range for me and I have no issues losing the reticule laterally (note: I am average size, 5'10" ~160; YMMV). Anywho––here are some more pics––sorry for mediocre phone pics; it's all I have right now













Streamlight TLR-3; this thing is bright! I couldn't decide at first where to put the little guy but I ended up with it here because it was the easiest place to activate.



Only downside is I have to use my trigger finger.



Also experimented with the TLR-3 up here but I lost too much control of the weapon having to bring my thumb around and it was a bit of a stretch as well.

Thanks for the pics.  I have always worried the XTR would be too big and sit too high, but that setup looks like it works nicely.

I really enjoy having my TLR2 at the front end of my 9" side accessory rail where I can manipulate it with my left hand's thumb.

+1 on the 9" accessory rail, but I use a Fenix TK11.
Tomac

bump for updated content on first post

Good deal man. Looks like the AR had the edge but the E4 is no slouch.

Really do appreciate you coming back and updating the thread

Any ideas how the burris would compare to the factory MSAR optics?

Well I couldn't just blue-ball you guys like that ...Plus I was interested to know what my inventory is capable of

I'm not sure how my Burris stacks up against the factory optics but it sounds like a good excuse to acquire one and find out
Although the factory optic has the weight advantage, the Burris has adjustable magnification so I can use as a reflex sight or magnified for longer shots, an illuminated X-Y ballistic reticule, and a 30mm tube for better low-level light transmission. Plus with the rail model, I have the option to change up when something else comes out that I like better. It's more of a personal preference thing because statistically, the Burris has every edge on the factory optic, but it is also retails around $600 whereas the factory optic is included in the rifle package price which is very close to the rail model price.

The Les Baer is more accurate, not by much.  But I think "practical acurracy" is better with the STG556.  By that I mean as soon as you take the two off the bench and start shooting in different positions the bull pup starts to shine.  The bull pup  just handles so much better.

@ OP, that's what I want to get next! Where did you find an E4 and what price?

I am in the process of getting set up at work as an MSAR authorized dealer but I got mine through my best friend's shop who deals through Davidson's. I will see about a price for you if you IM me.