I love the shot show.....better than the under the tree at Christmas!

RCBS is releasing the press in two versions, a 5 station version and a 7 station version.  Guess what?  Can't afford the 7 station this year?  It can be upgraded to the 7 station when ever you want with an upgrade kit.....a trick borrowed from the Pro 2000.

The worst news IMO?  I see a black tube on the right of the press in the back.  Looks like APS may not be in the plans.  Too bad.  Not the first time buyers refused forward thinking.....now perhaps we will see some scary primer kabooms on RCBS progressives.  I'm hoping they offer both.....

But 7 stations!  Finally!

MRSP   Forget these prices....an example of street prices on page 2.
$778.95 for the Pro Chucker 5
$1098.95 for the Pro Chucker 7
$383.95 for the Pro Chucker 5 to 7 Conversion Kit
$31.95 for Pro Chucker 5 die plates
$319.95 for Pro Chucker 7 die plate and QC powder measure

Prices aren't for the faint-hearted, but thankfully Midway and others will beat the MRSP.  Who knows when these will actually make it to the street.

Pictures from the shot show.....this one from Clayton Ericson's bucket (Photobucket):


The next three from kombayotch's bucket (Photobucket)



See all the holes in the casting above the appendage where cases are loaded?  (in the back this time)  Betting that's for mounting a new case feeder.



Finally the Uniflow has a bigger powder hopper.

I hope they didn't drop cast iron as the press material......looking at the smallish size compared to Dillon 650's....I'm betting cast iron.

Nice any news on price?

Look at the first post again....I added some info on that.

Something tells me a case feeder is in the future.  

I'm in.

It looks well built, but for the prices they're asking for the five-station you could have a Dillon 650 or Hornady LNL with case feeders and other extras. The seven station is in Dillon 1050 territory.

Yep those are pretty high for what I can get with Red or Blue. Will be interesting to see what the street price is going to be.

Looks cool, but at that price a 1050 seems a much better investment. ..

Is it me or does it have many similarities to the Hornady LNL?

Looks like they "borrowed" some ideas from the LNL.

Might be time to retire the ammomaster press and get them to take it in as a trade.

Ha!  Who knows?  Too early to tell.  Looks like a cross between several difference ideas.  I did notice the lock and unlock writing on top of the casting......so the whole tool head "locks n Loads!"......Hornady or Lee?

Again it's too early to say who it's aimed at.....I'm excited to see what they can bring to the progressive press "state of the art".  

A few things we can wonder about:

With the twist-lock tool head, does that mean more accurate alignment than the Dillon (or RCBS Pro 2000) loose removable tool head?  Hornady, with its rigid head could conceivably have the edge there it it wasn't for loose machining tolerances of anything priced under 10 thousands of dollars. In that event some looseness is necessary for alignment.  Hornady's shell plate provides that.

Obviously the seven stations appear to be equal, unlike the Dillon 1050.  Where the Dillon has a swager built in, this RCBS machine could use a separate tool....which RCBS will surely make and grab a little more of our money.  (Hornady just released such a tool.....upside down but you get my point.)

What I wonder about is the options?  Tube or APS priming?   I'd hate to have to give up the super safe APS.  What about the case feeder.....will it be a stand alone option like Hornady's or a split tool like Dillon's, with only the powered collator optional?

Time will tell.  One thing I can say......competition is good, and RCBS is a major player.  The Pro 2000 is a great press.  If these are anything close to it in quality, they will be worth it.

The Dillon 1050 with it's cast iron body is indeed a good investment, as long as you don't want to change calibers very often.  So the key might be how easy this new 7 holer can change calibers.  If it's as easy as the Pro 2000, wow!  If it takes as much time, money and effort as the 1050, then I may agree.  In the list prices above....the plate and powder measure combo  sounds really steep.  That could break it for me, unless that is the upgrade "kit" talked about.......again....too early.....don't know.  Also, if they were making a "commercial machine" like the 1050, they might should have copied more......  We'll see.

Finally found a picture of the 5 station version......looks identical except for the shell and tool plates, and a smaller powder measure.  

Natchez is already listing this version on their site for $705.  R&R Arms has it listed for $612.  Of course neither have one.

I really like it, but they are gong to need an angled handle like the Dillon if they are going to play in the market they are looking at.  The ball just doesn't do it over the long term and they should know that being in the business as longs as they have been there.

It looks like a huge step forward from their past designs though.

Case feeder looks great and the quick change toolhead looks much better than individual die set ups.  I really like it, it just needs a handle change.

Tube primer feed? ewwwww!  Y u no APS strip use?

I'm going to continue my GWhiz style case and bullet feed mods.

Good to see new products from Green though.

Exactly!.  I would love it if APS could be an option.....but I doubt it.  I don't know if the 7 stations will get me to go back to the dangerous tubes or not.  Guess we will see.  A couple of years ago a guy kept on me about "selling" kits of my case feeder and other mods to mod other people's presses.  I said "yeah right"  so RCBS could make them obsolete in a day.........and here we are!

I did get a kind compliment from an RCBS R&D engineer when my case feeder got posted.  But he told me then, that the company was heading a different direction......so I've been waiting.  Asked about APS's future, after I told him how much I liked it, He said he agreed in every way, but RCBS was disappointed that market acceptance was less than they hoped for.  That alone said volumes about it's future.  

I hope someday Dillon will do something about their tube bombs.  Then maybe the whole market will change to something safer.  I always said that if Dillon had invented APS everyone would be APS now......

Well folks, it's back to pipe bombs!  Just found a really good picture of the primer feed.  I see no possibility of an APS kit.  What goes in (strips) must come out.  So APS is gone.....I knew that was coming, but I don't have to like it.  Now we will start seeing pictures of blown up tubes, holes in ceilings and mangled hands, previously unheard of on RCBS progressives.   APS was superior in every way....it just wasn't accepted as such by enough loaders fast enough.  It's a shame.  If Dillon had invented it, all progressives would have APS.


Picture from the shotshow....kombayotch's bucket (Photobucket)

While all of this 'new' equipment is nice, I find spending that kind of money at me age is not worth it.  I have one of the 'OLD' Piggy back set-ups for my 'old' Rock Chucker and while it may be slow, it does me just fine.  It is interesting to see the advances that have been made.

Looks pretty good!

I may actually buy the 7-station since it doesn't use the stupid APS strips.  I am sure they work fine but I just don't see the supposed safety of the system being worth the hassle with the primer stash that I have.

The 7-station is actually a better option than the Dillon 1050 for most I would think as the change over times should be dramatically less than with the Dillon since you don't have to remove the whole top of the press.  I have 2 550B's but may sell one to get this instead.  I saw the 7-station listed at one dealer for $914 but will wait to see how the first reviews go.

There are some more pictures here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1183137-Shot-Show-2015-RCBS-Pro-Chucker-5-and-Pro-Chucker-7-Progressive-Presses

This guy who merely picked up his 550 primer tube at the wrong moment........may disagree with you.


They not only worked fine, they worked great.  As for your primer stash and the hassle of stripping them.  Admittedly its not a minute conversion.  It takes some 2 minutes to load a 1000, or a 30 minute TV show in your easy chair to load 10,000.  So it's not that much a hardship for having all your primer stash converted to ready to load strips.....but it IS a new ritual to learn.

But all that is a moot point, the Pro 2000 will be discontinued........of course some people may find the dead end Pro 2000's on dealer shelves for a steal.......and then maybe stripped CCI's will be discounted.  You know what fast and safe is?  Reloading with pre-stripped CCI's.  Ask Peter Eick....the picture below is a bucket of used strips after a long reloading session........and he didn't have to peck one tube.  (or strip one for that matter)

Honestly, the fear of exploding primer tubes is so overdone that it's kind of silly. You may as well be afraid that your Glock is going to explode, because I can think of a lot of other ways to get injured shooting that are certainly more likely than a primer tube going nuclear.

Lots of little things can mitigate risk in shooting.

For 99.9999% of reloaders, APS is a solution to a problem they have never had and never will have. Add in the extra cost and the limited availability and the fun of loading the strips, most will never see a need for it.

Interesting, if RCBS can find a way to do on press swage like the 1050 and not like Hornady, I may have to give this consideration.

Do you know if it primes on the down stroke or up?  I am assuming the up stroke.

Wouldn't that be nice ...



I've loaded strips and filled tubes.  I can load 100 primers into strips faster than I can get them into tubes.

Do you have the story on the injury above?  I am just curious as I have loaded about 10K rounds on my 550B without any problems.  You are saying that all primer tubes are bad due to a few incidents but how many 10's (if not 100's) of thousands of tubes have been filled/used without any problems?

In the end RCBS will sell more of the new presses as they use the standard priming system that has been in use for decades with overwhelmingly positive results.

Agreed, APS loading is wonderfully fast.  Also nice about Pro 2000 you can switch primer size in 1 minute.  Spend more time looking for a wrench.  Curious if Prochucker will be as convoluted as the 550 in primer size switchover.

The real question is does is swage primer pockets? Looks interesting..even for a guy who has been drinking the blue kool aid for years..

I noticed in the 3rd image the wire that kicks the finished round is pointing the wrong direction, doh.  I can see why a case feeder is needed, because of the location of

station 1. With the pro 2000 it is so easy to install the empty brass,  a bullet feeder would speed things up more than a case feeder. I am wondering too if it will be able to

swage primer pockets. I have only had my pro 2000 for a year and a half and am not ready to upgrade yet.

Your last statement is right on!  They've already learned that reloaders aren't serious about primer safety until an accident happens to them.  And Dillon has shown RCBS that people are willing to not "sue" as long as the "no questions asked policy" is in effect to replace maimed parts from the offending press free and soon.

As for the gory details of the picture I posted:  It came from Calguns Nov 11, 2011....poster said, "Yesterday afternoon I was converting my 550 from .223 to .38 to do a small batch in my living room. I had used my primer pick up tube to grab about fifty primers and had it in my left hand, placed it at the top of the 550 primer magazine, and with my right hand started to pull the pin. Kaboom!"  BTW Calguns has an update showing how his hand healed....very interesting.  No it isn't like new, but is usable.  He's got some big scars and numbness to deal with.

I realize many people get away with using primer pipe bombs with no ill effects......but the possibility is there.  Murphy's Law you know.  I picked the Pro 2000 because of APS.  There was three great features about the APS system.  1.  impossible to ever detonate more than 1 to 3 primers.  2.  buying preloaded strips made it so fast to load ammo.  3.  You could store ready to load primers by the thousands.  (that would be like preloading  10 tubes of 100 to store......geeze talk about tempting Murphy's Law!)

Anyway, my intention was only to make people more alert about primer tubes.  Obviously they are not going away soon!  Don't let your guard down, clean your empty tubes often.  Wear leather gloves?

Here's some cataloged prices from Precision Reloading?

Presses, shell plates, die plates, and the conversion kit are all cataloged and priced, but of course "out of stock".

Pro Chucker 7 .. $759
Pro Chucker 5 ... $537
5 Die Plates ... $25 ea
5 Shell Plates ... $37.50 ea
7 Die Plates (with included giant Uniflow) ...$250 ea!
7 Shell Plates ... 52.50 ea

5-7 Conversion Kit ... $300

Looks like I'm going to stock up on APS strips by the hundreds. I don't even mind filling! Never filled a primer tube, ever. But my mathmagic is keen enough to tell that 100 single actions carefully executed is waaaaaaay slower than 4 actions executed with 25x the effectiveness per iteration.

If only the APS were blue...

GWhis, I've done all your APS loader and Pro2K mods, well, working on the case feeder. I can tell already this thing is going to kick some serious ass. I'll post my own thread with pics; my gantry that holds up the shuttle is a monstrosity of brackets and robotics peg board style mounting plates.

Cool, glad to hear somebody found them useful.  Be waiting for your vid!

One major flaw I see so far is the bundling of the Uniflow and the Pro Chucker 7 die plate.   You don't need to buy a separate Uniflow for every die plate......besides I already have three!  Why would I want to buy 5 more!  That sucks major.

According to Kent Sakamoto at the show that's all that will be available at least for the first year!!!!  For one, I won't be upgrading until they have separate parts for sale.....neither will any other Pro 2000 users who have a collection of Uniflows.  You already get one with the new press, and case activated powder dies with lower clamp is all you need to populate new die plates.  Hornady makes a Kit of those lower PTX parts.  Time to make a noise at RCBS.

What am I, Steven Spielberg?

Once I get it running I'll get some action shots of it.

Looks quite close to a green LnL AP, but with expensive tool heads.
Interested in seeing how this develops, but it's funny in the primer tube pic...there's a loose primer at the bottom of the pic.

Will be interesting to see where this goes, especially if/when they realize not everyone is up for $250 tool heads, with or without a powder measure forced on you.

Or one without the expensive bushings.  Actually the die plates for the 5 station version (the only one comparable to the Hornady AP) are $50 for two 5 station die plates or you can buy a 10 pack of bushings for the Hornady at Grafs for $47.  A little cheaper but not by enough to make much of a difference.  

The real tell-tell will be when we find out how if the case and primer feeders on these two new presses are any more reliable than the Hornady versions, and if ammo loaded with these new heads are as symmetrical as those loaded on the Hornady.  Of course nothing Hornady makes yet is comparable to a seven station press.

BTW, RCBS has posted their new Downloadable 2015 Catalog on their web site.......the only sign there that they have anything new!  Their excuse is that they are updating their web site!...........again.

Toys!

That's what MY wife said......only she added "boys......"
I found a couple more pictures on the canadian site.....



Ahhhh!  The plate falls and pushes the short side down while the long side pokes though a hole in the plate and "leans" into it to advance.  RCBS simple, as seen in the next picture.  THAT"S why they are saying it advances so smooth!  No ball and spring!  Notice the rounded shaft (pin) in the back?  That will center (sync) the station taking the place of the ball and spring!  I don't know for sure, but it appears the shell plate bolt may have a wider flush bearing it keeps......we can hope.

Also it appears that the centering pin could be made adjustable for height!  Could that make it possible to set primer seating depth?  Most interesting stuff.  And see the extra hole close to the pin?  Obviously that's the hole you put the centering pin in for the Pro Chucker 5 version.

Ahh - wasn't referring to the 5 station but the pricing on the 7 station at $250 + 'forced' powder measure.  
I usually pay ~$43/10pack of LnL bushings, but don't see it as a huge advantage $-wise, except when toolheads for certain presses are obviously expensive, although I do like them for selective processing, quick die removal and re-insertion.

I don't see the Hornady priming system as 'with issues,' more like minor effort, set up right, then forget about it - although not 'perfect' out of the box (what is?).
I like my Hornady case feeder, but it probably required more tweaks than anything/everything else on the LnL AP combined.  It's now running well, but it will be interesting to see what RCBS comes up with...although it's sure looking like a similar sort of solution is coming.

Depending on how it pans out in reviews, availability of toolheads without PM in the future, retail pricing etc...I wouldn't have an issue adding a new RCBS to sit next to the Hornady.
I'd need to think a bit on how I might *use* all 7 stations, but things like powder cop + dial indicator for trim length, swager, etc...all pop to mind, so it's more about what 'full set of tools' taking advantage of the other stations are available..that brings the real value, IMO.

I understand RCBS  is getting hit with a lot of negative email on the 'forced" powder measure/die station combo only deal.  Mostly from RCBS owners who already have several Uniflows.  I won't be surprised if they give in sooner than the year they planned of offer the combo only deal.  Yes, I was one of them.  I suggested that instead they offer us kits and big hoppers to upgrade our existing Uniflows to the Quick Change model.  And also offer powder die & lowers kits, like Hornady's quick change powder die with lower bracket kit so we don't have to order the stupid parts over the phone from the parts dept.  I talked to an engineer so we will see.  The more calls the better folks.

I will say one thing about Hornady's primer system, it isn't burdened with the kabooms the Dillon ones have.  I will still miss the super simple & safe APS system I now enjoy.

Does this have a swage station?  Pointless if not.  Better off getting the 1050

Pointless?  over swaging?  There's lots to like about a Dillon 1050 if you mainly load one caliber.  Some people don't even use the swager.  How many IPSC or IDPA users slip a crimped case in their stash.......fine if it does happens....but how often?

The 1050 is still in a class of it's own, it does have 8 stations you know, but it's also still in a price class own too.  1050 owners who insist on loading many calibers, often spend more than the price of the press just on caliber changes.  What's going to be the niche for this new green press?  It's going to rock for those who like to load lots of calibers, who are tired of the 5 station limitation preventing having bullet feeders, lockout dies, and separate crimpers all at once.  However, we got to get rid of the die plate/ powder measure combo only requirement.  RCBS will do that....and I'll wait the year if I that's what it takes.......I already have 3 Uniflows.

What it doesn't do is swaging and priming on the down stroke.  Guess you have to weigh what fits you best.  Or in other words nothings changed.....we individuals require different strokes. (for different folks)

Adding a video.  
I'd love to see the underside of what he keeps calling a 'lockout,' but seems to really be the 'timing,' in that a rod seems to be pushing up into a slot in the sub-plate, thus 'forcing' shell-plate alignment, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alestMi_c9s

Pricing will likely make or break it, assuming it's a quality piece, which it *seems* to be.  
The 5 station needs to be within $100 to compete with the 550 and LnL AP, while the 7 station is unique enough out there to warrant some extra $, but IMO needs to be within $300 or so of a LnL AP or 650, or it'll be a neat press with limited sales...
GWhiz - have you pre-ordered one yet?

ETA - I give up on trying to make the video embed, can never remember if a 'non member' can even post a video on here or not, but HUGE waste of time for people trying to share info.  Hopefully one of the mods can fix the busted YT link added. :(

Unfortunately that's true......here you pay to embed videos or even search, a ARCOM exclusive.  Aren't we lucky?

No I haven't pre-ordered one yet.  I've been an early adopter only a few times in my life, and was sorry each time except in the case of the RCBS Bench Swager.  The press is too much money to risk that......I'll wait and see.  I already have the best 5 station press, so I'm in no hurry.  Oh, wait, I bought one of the first Summit Presses!  That one turned out to be a good choice as well.

I might have been more tempted had they not decided to bundle the 7-die plate/ Uniflow in an exclusive way.  That's supposed to be a trial policy for a year.........a stupid one IMO.  I already have 3 Uniflows, and they already offer "Quick Change" parts at Midway to upgrade them if I care or want.

Looks like I mangled the video link trying to get it to embed, but this one should work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alestMi_c9s

Thanks SandHillsHillbilly & rtpguy for actually finding a video on the press at the show.  It's curious why RCBS didn't do their usual video starring Kent Sakamoto??

Anyway the video shows very clear why they don't need a bearing and spring to index the press.  The spring is what suddenly yanks the shell plate into the index detent on the Pro 2000 and the Dillon 650 and throws grains of powder.  I'm curious how the Dillon 1050 does it.

Guess I need to call Grafs and see when they will have them setup to check out

Can some of you more reloading knowledgeable types explain the uses of / benefits of a 7 station vs a 5 station press.  More useful for all the extra steps needed for straight wall cases like flaring the case mouth?

size
expand/drop (this can be 2 stations especially if an m die or similar is desired)
powder check
bullet feeder
bullet seat
crimp die

That's 6 or 7 steps. Throw in a swage position on the 1050, as well.

Yes more useful for pistol.  So with pistol in mind, all progressives have limitations on what you can do with a particular station.

Take the most vaunted of the 5-station presses (Dillon 650) for example:

# 1 is where the case feeder is built-in and the spent primer box fits.  So this station is where your sizing die has to go, So here the case feeds, deprimes and sizes
#2 is where the powder measure with it's built-in expander goes. Also at #2 is the primer tube & shuttle....so new primers are set there, cases are expanded and filled with powder.

That leaves only 3 stations to finish, and here you have to choose.

Most people put a powder cop or lockout die at #3.

That leaves 2.  Seating  and crimping.  (Most serious reloaders prefer to seat and crimp in separate stations.)    So that's enough right?  Perhaps, unless you want to add a bullet feeder. If you do than seating and crimping have to happen either on station 5 together, or you'd have to crimp separately on another single station press. Ugh.

So Six stations would really be more than adequate right?

And you can do it that way with 6.......but you know....most pistol die sets have their own expander dies and if you wanted to use it, it would simplify the powder drop.  You'd only have to adjust it to measure powder, not have to worry about the proper expansion of the case too.  After all an expansion die would only have to be set once. and once adjusted and screwed on the the tool head  it could stay there.  Of course you can buy a separate powder measure for each tool head and do that.....for a price.

There is ONE pistol bullet feeder that feeds and seats in one station....that's the very expensive GSI built only for Dillons.  That would give the 650 another station.......or you can dump the powder cop.

Redarts mentioned swaging.......On the Dillon 1050 the swaging station is also the expanding station.  That means that the 1050 press doesn't use the powder drop to expand like the 650 does.  I don't know of a way to swage on the new RCBS presses....a built-in swager would have to be under the shell plate.....nobody from RCBS has mentioned that so I doubt it.

Hornady makes one for their AP, but it's not in the same class.  Their swaging is done separately with special plates and dies, not during a regular loading session.  May as well use a bench swager as that. (to me it would be preferable.....on the press you have to remove your loading setup first.)



Do let us know their timeline, Angus6!