556 vs 223 brass - AR15.COM

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Posted: 12/23/2010 12:18:05 PM EDT

I have been reloading for about a year now, and I was looking to buy some 223 brass. I was on the Natchez website
and noticed the LC 5.56 unprimed brass. Right now I have standard 223 brass I am using, what problems will this cause
for me ? Can I intermix both types together and reload them the same? Should I buy these, or just stick with SAAMI 223?
Natchez 556 brass
thanks, tom

Posted: 12/23/2010 12:37:07 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

I have been reloading for about a year now, and I was looking to buy some 223 brass. I was on the Natchez website

and noticed the LC 5.56 unprimed brass. Right now I have standard 223 brass I am using, what problems will this cause

for me ? Can I intermix both types together and reload them the same? Should I buy these, or just stick with SAAMI 223?

Natchez 556 brass

thanks, tom

How is your rifle chambered? If it will handle both, get some LC. I try and use LC and have always liked it best.

Posted: 12/23/2010 12:38:31 PM EDT

[#2]

There is no difference between the two. Lake City brass (5.56mm) has the highest internal capacity of any on the market. Load em and shoot em.

Lake City .308 brass is a different animal altogether. Charges must be reduced 2.0 grains when using it instead of Winchester/Hornady.

Posted: 12/23/2010 12:47:08 PM EDT

[#3]

Onibaba

Your post taken back as requested. dryflash3

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:07:57 PM EDT

[#4]

NATO cases have less internal capacity than commercial .223 cases due to the thickness of their case wall, which is thicker on the NATO 5.56 cases and thinner on the .223. That means that the same powder charge will yield higher pressures in the NATO case because there's less space inside (comparatively speaking). Because you're loading your own cartriges, this doesn't have any real bearing with your application since you should be starting at 10% below maximum charge anyways, working your way up, and checking for pressure signs.

Were the concern lies between the 5.56 and the .223 is with the type of chamber you will be firing them through. As a rule of thumb, if you have a chamber cut for .223, you shouldn't fire the hotter 5.56 in it. The .223 is cut tighter than a 5.56 thus the case has less room to expand which results higher pressure than SAAMI spec. But this again only really applies if you're buying pre-assembled ammunition.

As for reloading the two batches you have together or not, it will be ultimately up to you to decide if it is safe to do so or not. I don't load my cartriges near maximum so I could mix them and remain safe, although I generally sort and separate them in order to record how often they've been reused.

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:15:28 PM EDT

[#5]

People really need to read molon's info on case capacity. Lake City tends to have the highest capacity of any brass for .223/5.56. It is the 7.62 brass that has thicker walls. Lake City makes great brass. That is a great price for 1000 pieces of unfired.

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:41:14 PM EDT

[#6]

So much FALSE info in this thread.

To the OP, it's generally regarded as some of the best brass available.
The ONLY issue you need to be aware of is you will need to get rid of the primer crimp.
It's a once & done deal... but needs to be done. There are a variety of ways to get it done.

NO OTHER ISSUES.

AT ALL.

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:44:10 PM EDT

[#7]

\

Quoted:

So much FALSE info in this thread.

To the OP, it's generally regarded as some of the best brass available.

The ONLY issue you need to be aware of is you will need to get rid of the primer crimp.

It's a once & done deal... but needs to be done. There are a variety of ways to get it done.

NO OTHER ISSUES.

AT ALL.

The link to the brass posted is new and unprimed should be no crimp to remove. Looks like a great deal to me.

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:51:12 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

2) 5.56 case walls are thicker and therefore produce higher pressures. You must reduce the powder load that you would normally use when loading for 223. (about two grains.)

I propose an amendment to C.O.C. The next person that spouts this nonsense without posting any data to support it, receives a one year ban.

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:51:48 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

NATO cases have less internal capacity than commercial .223 cases due to the thickness of their case wall, which is thicker on the NATO 5.56 cases and thinner on the .223. That means that the same powder charge will yield higher pressures in the NATO case because there's less space inside (comparatively speaking).

(for the children.)

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:52:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

So much FALSE info in this thread.

+1000

....

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:52:43 PM EDT

[#11]

....

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:54:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Perhaps for 308 there is a significant difference between military and commercial but for 223 I don't find this to be true. I have a bunch (700+) of 223 brass that has been sized, trimmed to the same length, chamfered and deburred, and primed. At random I took 5 cases each of Remington, Winchester, Federal, PMC, LC-07 and LC-08 to weigh and get an average weight. Statistically there is no difference. Weights were RP - 95.1 gr; Win - 96.4 gr; PMC - 96.1 gr; FC - 96.3; LC-07 - 96.5 gr; LC-08 - 95.8 gr. I can't see a 1.5 grain difference in case weight making any real world difference for case capacity.

Probably not a bad idea to weigh a few sample cases if you get a different headstamp to see where they fall. But for the most part, you can load commercial and military 223 brass the same.

I understand the difference between the 223 and 5.56 chambers but for reloaded ammo I don't know that it makes a difference as I have never seen 5.56 load data, just 223. As with any reloading, start below max and work up slowly to make sure the loads are safe in your rifle. If you are reloading blasting ammo or just for less than precision use, don't get too worried about case capacity. Find a load that you like because it functions in your gun and go with that.

Posted: 12/23/2010 1:54:39 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

The link to the brass posted is new and unprimed should be no crimp to remove. Looks like a great deal to me.

[/div]

Agreed, that's as good as it gets.
Didn't check the link as I have about 5000 cases... don't need to buy more.
If it's unprimed as in new never primed, never fired... just size, trim & load. (that's what I would do).

Posted: 12/23/2010 2:52:35 PM EDT

[#14]

I am pleased at the responses to my post, but am hearing conflicting thoughts? Maybe a little more info about my rifle and reloading I do.
I am a beginner who shoots in a local Service Rifle League with my RRA Nat. Match AR-15. This rifle has a .223 Wylde Chamber for 5.56mm & .223cal.
Although I realize it has the capability to shoot 5.56mm, all my brass is stamped .223. The problem is, I have a collage of different manf's of this .223 brass,
and I would like to restart with new brass of the same manf. When I seen this Natchez 5.56 brass for sale, I started to get interested. One of the
posts in here say there is a difference in capacity, and others say none. If I purchase this brass, size, trim it to length, can I load it the same as I load my favorite load:
69 gr Sierra HPBT, w. 24.5g of Varget, @ COL 2.255" ?
I appreciate your thoughts,
thanks , Tom

Posted: 12/23/2010 2:58:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

I am pleased at the responses to my post, but am hearing conflicting thoughts? Maybe a little more info about my rifle and reloading I do.

I am a beginner who shoots in a local Service Rifle League with my RRA Nat. Match AR-15. This rifle has a .223 Wylde Chamber for 5.56mm & .223cal.

Although I realize it has the capability to shoot 5.56mm, all my brass is stamped .223. The problem is, I have a collage of different manf's of this .223 brass,

and I would like to restart with new brass of the same manf. When I seen this Natchez 5.56 brass for sale, I started to get interested. One of the

posts in here say there is a difference in capacity, and others say none. If I purchase this brass, size, trim it to length, can I load it the same as I load my favorite load:

69 gr Sierra HPBT, w. 24.5g of Varget, @ COL 2.255" ?

I appreciate your thoughts,

thanks , Tom

You may want to work up a load with that brass, but that is not an overly hot load. You can buy that brass, size it and trim it. Molon has endless threads with data and proof of how he got that data. The people claiming 5.56 has thicker walls and will have more pressure either read it online or heard it in a gun shop. Lake City is very good brass, and will generally be capable of holding more powder.

Posted: 12/23/2010 3:18:50 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
If I purchase this brass, size, trim it to length, can I load it the same as I load my favorite load:
69 gr Sierra HPBT, w. 24.5g of Varget, @ COL 2.255" ?
I appreciate your thoughts,
thanks , Tom

YES. NO PROBLEM AT ALL.

Posted: 12/23/2010 3:31:04 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I am pleased at the responses to my post, but am hearing conflicting thoughts? Maybe a little more info about my rifle and reloading I do.
I am a beginner who shoots in a local Service Rifle League with my RRA Nat. Match AR-15. This rifle has a .223 Wylde Chamber for 5.56mm & .223cal.
Although I realize it has the capability to shoot 5.56mm, all my brass is stamped .223. The problem is, I have a collage of different manf's of this .223 brass,
and I would like to restart with new brass of the same manf. When I seen this Natchez 5.56 brass for sale, I started to get interested. One of the
posts in here say there is a difference in capacity, and others say none. If I purchase this brass, size, trim it to length, can I load it the same as I load my favorite load:
69 gr Sierra HPBT, w. 24.5g of Varget, @ COL 2.255" ?
I appreciate your thoughts,
thanks , Tom

You can take what Malon posted as gospel he is the man and knows whats what. Sorry you got all the false info and has ya worried.
Get the LC if ya want to....1K of that should do ya good for a long time.On the arfcom ya will get info sometimes that ya have to weed out good from bad.
Just try to learn from it...somebody will usually get the facts straightend out.Good luck to ya.
One thing that did not get answered that might be causing the confusion is the 5.56 vs .223....Once that new brass or fired brass its just brass..223/5.56
The concern is "new" factory loaded ammo only .223 in a rifle chambered for .223 and the 5.56 or .223 can be fired in a .5.56 chamber or a .223 wylde chamber.
Just because you reload some LC 5.56 brass that don't make it 5.56 ammo its just .223 ammo if your useing the published reload manual data anyway.

On your favorite load there...The Sierra manual AR15 data...shows 24.5 of varget about mid of the data with 26.1 as max but they show 2.260 OAL so you are fine if thats been working.
I shoot 25 gr varget myself with 69 SMK but i found that 25gr RE15 shoots better in my gun.And i use once fired LC 5.56 brass...RRA Predator Pursuit

Posted: 12/23/2010 3:53:45 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

2) 5.56 case walls are thicker and therefore produce higher pressures. You must reduce the powder load that you would normally use when loading for 223. (about two grains.)

I propose an amendment to C.O.C. The next person that spouts this nonsense without posting any data to support it, receives a one year ban.

Great Idea man...

Posted: 12/23/2010 4:01:36 PM EDT

[#19]

Okay!

Someone show me how...

Posted: 12/23/2010 4:02:26 PM EDT

[#20]

... to take my post back

Fixed for you. dryflash3

Posted: 12/23/2010 4:10:58 PM EDT

[#21]

edit, no need for this post any longer.

Posted: 12/23/2010 4:13:03 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
NATO cases have less internal capacity than commercial .223 cases due to the thickness of their case wall, which is thicker on the NATO 5.56 cases and thinner on the .223. That means that the same powder charge will yield higher pressures in the NATO case because there's less space inside (comparatively speaking). Because you're loading your own cartriges, this doesn't have any real bearing with your application since you should be starting at 10% below maximum charge anyways, working your way up, and checking for pressure signs.

Were the concern lies between the 5.56 and the .223 is with the type of chamber you will be firing them through. As a rule of thumb, if you have a chamber cut for .223, you shouldn't fire the hotter 5.56 in it. The .223 is cut tighter than a 5.56 thus the case has less room to expand which results higher pressure than SAAMI spec. But this again only really applies if you're buying pre-assembled ammunition.

As for reloading the two batches you have together or not, it will be ultimately up to you to decide if it is safe to do so or not. I don't load my cartriges near maximum so I could mix them and remain safe, although I generally sort and separate them in order to record how often they've been reused.

That is a false statement about the Nato cases. It's what the reloading manuals say, but it is still an inaccurate statement. Please read the FAQ's before posting things like this.

Posted: 12/23/2010 4:34:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Ok, now I think I'm getting somewhere with this. Thanks guys(and gals if there are any?), I am hedging toward getting this brass, it seems like a good deal.
Your info has really helped me out.
Nost.

Posted: 12/23/2010 5:28:51 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
NATO cases have less internal capacity than commercial .223 cases due to the thickness of their case wall, which is thicker on the NATO 5.56 cases and thinner on the .223. That means that the same powder charge will yield higher pressures in the NATO case because there's less space inside (comparatively speaking). Because you're loading your own cartriges, this doesn't have any real bearing with your application since you should be starting at 10% below maximum charge anyways, working your way up, and checking for pressure signs.

Were the concern lies between the 5.56 and the .223 is with the type of chamber you will be firing them through. As a rule of thumb, if you have a chamber cut for .223, you shouldn't fire the hotter 5.56 in it. The .223 is cut tighter than a 5.56 thus the case has less room to expand which results higher pressure than SAAMI spec. But this again only really applies if you're buying pre-assembled ammunition.

As for reloading the two batches you have together or not, it will be ultimately up to you to decide if it is safe to do so or not. I don't load my cartriges near maximum so I could mix them and remain safe, although I generally sort and separate them in order to record how often they've been reused.

Factory 556 will have higher pressures than 223, but if you are reloading this is not a concern because the pressure will be dependant on how much/which powder you use, as stated above. As others have said, there is no difference between cases marked 556 and those marked 223. I load them interchangably.

However, when loading Lake City 7.62 you must reduce the load from what you use in commercial .308 brass. 556/223 though, is the same.

Posted: 12/23/2010 6:11:35 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I am pleased at the responses to my post, but am hearing conflicting thoughts? Maybe a little more info about my rifle and reloading I do.
I am a beginner who shoots in a local Service Rifle League with my RRA Nat. Match AR-15. This rifle has a .223 Wylde Chamber for 5.56mm & .223cal.
Although I realize it has the capability to shoot 5.56mm, all my brass is stamped .223. The problem is, I have a collage of different manf's of this .223 brass,
and I would like to restart with new brass of the same manf. When I seen this Natchez 5.56 brass for sale, I started to get interested. One of the
posts in here say there is a difference in capacity, and others say none. If I purchase this brass, size, trim it to length, can I load it the same as I load my favorite load:
69 gr Sierra HPBT, w. 24.5g of Varget, @ COL 2.255" ?
I appreciate your thoughts,
thanks , Tom

There is no conflicting info, there is NO difference in 556 and 223 brass. I persoanlly load both w/o regard to what the stamp says (556 or 223) and they all chrono the same, meaning the pressure is the same, the velocity is the same, etc, etc. Everything is the same. However, there is a difference between LC 7.62 brass and commercial .308 brass. Look at Molon's info, the proof is right there. If Molon says it, I believe it. If he told me to jump off a bridge and I would be OK, I would believe him. If you want to see the proof, go to the AR15 forum and find the collected Molon threads link in the sticky at the top.

Posted: 12/23/2010 7:00:12 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
... to take my post back

Fixed for you. dryflash3

You could of gone back to your post and hit Edit, changed whatever you wanted, you really didn't need me.

But it needed to go, and you asked.

Posted: 12/23/2010 11:46:38 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

I am pleased at the responses to my post, but am hearing conflicting thoughts? Maybe a little more info about my rifle and reloading I do.

I am a beginner who shoots in a local Service Rifle League with my RRA Nat. Match AR-15. This rifle has a .223 Wylde Chamber for 5.56mm & .223cal.

Although I realize it has the capability to shoot 5.56mm, all my brass is stamped .223. The problem is, I have a collage of different manf's of this .223 brass,

and I would like to restart with new brass of the same manf. When I seen this Natchez 5.56 brass for sale, I started to get interested. One of the

posts in here say there is a difference in capacity, and others say none. If I purchase this brass, size, trim it to length, can I load it the same as I load my favorite load:

69 gr Sierra HPBT, w. 24.5g of Varget, @ COL 2.255" ?

I appreciate your thoughts,

thanks , Tom

Any time you hear conflicting information or advice that doesn't make sense, test to find out for yourself.

But let's back up to fundamentals, too. If you've read a load manual, you've may have noticed the advice about mixing headstamps. There's are a couple of reasons for that, but the main reason is that brass from manufacturer to manufacturer is different, no matter the chambering.

.223 Rem brass from WCC, Winchester, Lapua, LC, and Remington is all fairly close in weight at around 93 grains per case, but other brass will go over 100 grains. Check out PMP: http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Stop focusing on the cosmetics (the headstamp) and concentrate on the facts, which are the actual capacities of the cases no matter the headstamp.

Posted: 12/24/2010 3:31:47 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
That is a false statement about the Nato cases. It's what the reloading manuals say, but it is still an inaccurate statement. Please read the FAQ's before posting things like this.

My apologies. I thought what I posted was accurate from having read multiple articles on this subject, although personally I"ve never have done any case capacity testing on my own. Guess I was wrong. I'll just keep my trap shut and get schooled

Posted: 12/24/2010 4:39:44 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That is a false statement about the Nato cases. It's what the reloading manuals say, but it is still an inaccurate statement. Please read the FAQ's before posting things like this.

My apologies. I thought what I posted was accurate from having read multiple articles on this subject, although personally I"ve never have done any case capacity testing on my own. Guess I was wrong. I'll just keep my trap shut and get schooled

no problems

Posted: 12/24/2010 3:13:31 PM EDT

[#30]

That's a GREAT price on New Brass. Shooting all the same head stamp makes lots of sence. I don't pick up range brass, you never know what your getting, what chamber it's shot out of, and how many times it's been fired. I think you'll be happy with the brass. You can get cheaper once fired:

Once fired polished brass

But the headstamps will be different, although my last boxes from here were 95% LC09 with 5% bad brass to sort out.

LC brass is the good stuff, talk to other High power shooter in your local, they should collaborate.

Posted: 12/24/2010 3:49:32 PM EDT

[#31]

dupe

Posted: 12/24/2010 6:35:02 PM EDT

[#32]

i don't no i have a mini-14 target ruger that seeme's to not wan't to feed lc brass over remington factory ammo, why i don't no .

Posted: 12/25/2010 5:48:04 AM EDT

[#33]

Thanks folks for your inputs, as it turned out, I did purchase the brass. (and did learn a couple things in the process!!!)
nost.

Posted: 12/25/2010 5:58:03 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
i don't no i have a mini-14 target ruger that seeme's to not wan't to feed lc brass over remington factory ammo, why i don't no .

By LC brass, do you mean your LC handloads?

If so, you are not sizing the cases enough, the brass is not the problem.

Get a case gauge, with it you can set your sizing die for trouble free chambering.

This is what your LC cases would look like not sized enough. End of case is above end of gauge.

This is what you want. Turn your die down 1/16 of a turn until your cases look like this.

End of case below end of gauge, but above the .002 cut. Dillon gauge shown.

Posted: 12/25/2010 7:42:39 AM EDT

[#35]

That is a false statement about the Nato cases. It's what the reloading manuals say, but it is still an inaccurate statement.

Not all loading manuals. Sierra has it right, this is what they have to say about 5.56 vs 223 brass.

The conventional wisdom to reduce loads with military brass is familiar to most reloaders and is generally good advice. The rationale here is that the military cases tend to be somewhat thicker and heavier than their civilian counterparts, which in turn reduces capacity and raises pressures. This additional pressure normally requires a one or two grain reduction from the loads shown in most manuals or other data developed with commercial cases. While this is most often the situation with both 308 Winchester and 30-06 cases, it is less true with the 223 brass. We have found that military cases often have significantly more capacity than several brands of commercial brass. Again, take the time to do a side-by-side comparison of the cases you are working with and adjust your load as needed. There may be no need for such a reduction with the 223.

Link to entire article.
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm

Posted: 12/26/2010 4:57:33 AM EDT

[#36]

From what I see here is that there should be "no" significant difference between the two cases. What I
plan on doing is, when the case arrive, sizing and trimming a few of them, both 5.56 and 223 and doing
a volume capacity check. I don't expect significant difference, but will adjust accordingly. My "pet" load is
"mid-range" anyway, and shouldn't be an issue. I will post the results when I complete the comparison.
thanks, Nost

Posted: 12/26/2010 5:39:25 AM EDT

[#37]

You can do that, but it may not be the most accurate way to test volume. To be accurate, you should use fired from the same gun unsized cases.

Posted: 12/26/2010 7:07:59 AM EDT

[#38]

Will do Steve, thanks

Posted: 1/1/2011 6:52:46 AM EDT

[#39]

I received the 1000 pcs of LC 5.56 brass and put a few pieces through my full length sizer.
They just slipped right through without any resistance, appearing to be slightly smaller
in width then my sized LC 223 brass (slightly). I then trimmed both to equal length and
found that the 5.56 brass, on average, held .4 (4 tenths) of a grain "less" powder by volume.
Any suggestions on loading these due to this little difference?
Present load:
69g Sierra HPBT Match bullet
LC 223 '07 brass
24.7g of Varget
OAL = 2.260"

thanks, Nostadamus

Posted: 1/1/2011 8:21:24 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

I received the 1000 pcs of LC 5.56 brass and put a few pieces through my full length sizer.
They just slipped right through without any resistance, appearing to be slightly smaller
in width then my sized LC 223 brass (slightly). I then trimmed both to equal length and
found that the 5.56 brass, on average, held .4 (4 tenths) of a grain "less" powder by volume.

Are you saying you're comparing the volume of virgin Lake City brass to once-fired and resized brass? How many samples of each case did you measure? Are you using powder or water to make the comparison? Also, there's no such thing as "223" Lake City brass.

Posted: 1/1/2011 4:46:38 PM EDT

[#41]

If one of the cases has been fired and resized, and the other has not, that alone could account for the difference in case capacity. You don't say what powder you used to check the case volume and if it was Varget, that is not a precise way to do that as it is a stick powder which means how it is dropped into the case could account for the difference in how much you can get in it. Even if a ball powder was used, assuming about 25 grains to fill the case to the top, a 0.4 grain difference is only a case capacity difference of 1.4%. To me, this is not enough to worry about as there is no way you are going to see this small of a difference in your reloads. In fact, I bet if you took 10 cases with the same and did a capacity check you would find close to that kind of variation in case capacity.

Should add, that the best way to check case capacity is with a liquid such as water. Then you can be pretty sure there are no air pockets remaining in the case that could give you a false reading.

Posted: 1/2/2011 3:10:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Are you saying you're comparing the volume of virgin Lake City brass to once-fired and resized brass?

I am comparing "resized/trimmed" LC 07 brass to LC 5.56 brass that was put through a full length die. The 5.56 brass
did not offer much resistance when resizing, though.

How many samples of each case did you measure?

Just 3 samples of each, but I am confident this would be consistent throughout.

Are you using powder or water to make the comparison?

Powder. I know it leaves room for error, but it was consistently the same for all 3 pieces of brass from each. I was
just doing a quick comparison, but again, feel it would be consistent.

Also, there's no such thing as "223" Lake City brass.

Well maybe there's something I don't understand, but the brass I have is stamped LC 07 223. Please explain to me so
I may learn something.

I think the reason for the difference is this: I have been shooting "once/twice/three times shot" brass, and have yet to reload
"new" brass for my AR-15 (223). I would imagine that after I shot it once, it would be identical to the other brass. Like I mentioned,
when I put the new brass through the full length resizer, it slipped right through as if it was even smaller then the full length die. In
other words, I could feel the .4 grain difference.
thanks, tom

Posted: 1/2/2011 3:38:32 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i don't no i have a mini-14 target ruger that seeme's to not wan't to feed lc brass over remington factory ammo, why i don't no .

By LC brass, do you mean your LC handloads?

If so, you are not sizing the cases enough, the brass is not the problem.

Get a case gauge, with it you can set your sizing die for trouble free chambering.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Case%20Gauge/PB290319.jpg

This is what your LC cases would look like not sized enough. End of case is above end of gauge.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Case%20Gauge/PB290317.jpg

This is what you want. Turn your die down 1/16 of a turn until your cases look like this.

End of case below end of gauge, but above the .002 cut. Dillon gauge shown.

I've read that a slightly taller shell holder (from where the case head sits to the top) can cause this problem too. There is only so far a ram will push. Turning the die down might not be enough if it's already bottoming out against the die.

Posted: 1/2/2011 3:56:02 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Are you saying you're comparing the volume of virgin Lake City brass to once-fired and resized brass?

I am comparing "resized/trimmed" LC 07 brass to LC 5.56 brass that was put through a full length die. The 5.56 brass
did not offer much resistance when resizing, though.

How many samples of each case did you measure?

Just 3 samples of each, but I am confident this would be consistent throughout.

Are you using powder or water to make the comparison?

Powder. I know it leaves room for error, but it was consistently the same for all 3 pieces of brass from each. I was
just doing a quick comparison, but again, feel it would be consistent.

Also, there's no such thing as "223" Lake City brass.

Well maybe there's something I don't understand, but the brass I have is stamped LC 07 223. Please explain to me so
I may learn something.

I think the reason for the difference is this: I have been shooting "once/twice/three times shot" brass, and have yet to reload
"new" brass for my AR-15 (223). I would imagine that after I shot it once, it would be identical to the other brass. Like I mentioned,
when I put the new brass through the full length resizer, it slipped right through as if it was even smaller then the full length die. In
other words, I could feel the .4 grain difference.
thanks, tom

LC 07 223

I've never seen LC brass stamped like this.

Posted: 1/2/2011 4:55:14 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

I am comparing "resized/trimmed" LC 07 brass to LC 5.56 brass that was put through a full length die. The 5.56 brass did not offer much resistance when resizing, though.

So you are comparing virgin brass to fired and resized brass; therefore, your comparison results are completely invalid.

Quoted:

the brass I have is stamped LC 07 223

Can you post a pic of the headstamp?