User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
OH, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 2:29:19 PM EDT
Everyone bitches about Federal "FC" headstamp brass so I did my own testing.
Conditions: 70 degrees partly cloudy Rifle:16" CAR15, chrome lined 1-9 twist, Stag lower, nothing special. Case used: Federal, FC over 07 headstamp. Once fired starting length 1.743" after sizing ran through a dillion super swage 600. Web thickness:.178" Load: 24.5 grains of AA 2330 with 55 grain bullet, Winchester small rifle primer, 2.250 OAL. Average speed through a Chrony 1: 3016 F.P.S. Shot # starting length: 1)1.743" 2)1.744" 3)1.748" 4)1.749" 5)1.754" 6)1.758" 7)1.762" 8)1.763" trimmed to 1.752" 9)1.757" 10)1.759" 11)1.160" 12)1.758" This was all shot with the same case within 30-40 minutes. Case never split, ass end didn't fall off and I think the sun will still rise in the morning. The primer pocket did loosen up but the primers never backed out or showed any pressure signs. My dog did wonder why I kept walking outside and shooting the woodpile from 15'. My conclusion is it works for me. The primer pocket was a little loose to begin and about done when I stopped but I know from loadind these that they vary and this was one of the sloppy ones when I began. |
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 3:33:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d_striker]
[#1]
I did a similar test but with FC 223 brass from Federal Value Packs from WW.
All held up for 6 firings. Primer pockets were fine. The only problem that I see with this brass is that some of it is VERY short. Like under 1.740" short. The picture below is from a case that was around 1.738". The tip of the bullet caught on the feed ramp and the shoulder got all bent up. Had to hold the charging handle and butt stroke my rifle to get it out. 
|
|
|
MEX
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 3:40:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Proof that FC brass is fine so long as the load is reaqsonable. Thank You!
BTW, FC 9mm brass is the best. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:06:13 PM EDT
[#3]
I've been waiting for someone to do a test like this. Thanks.
|
|
|
ID, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:14:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Crap, you mean the 50,000 rounds of brass I sold for $5.00 were really OK?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:23:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Federal "FC 223 Rem" from 10 years ago WERE weak. Things may have changed. "FC nn" are not made on the same line as "FC 223 Rem". |
|
|
|
ME, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 4:43:04 PM EDT
[#6]
I have some 15 year old "FC" headstamp brass (no date, different font) that I'd volunteer for your torture testing.
Ive found them to be so soft that more often than not, the crimping operation just buckles the shoulder. |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Lao Zieh use "FC" long time from porice range. Arways road to velocity specs, whatever burret, or powder. Use first crass techniques, not ham-handed, un-observant, or sroppy. Have good tooring and measuring device too. Ammo arways first class, hot, and accurate in brack rifre. Discard after 5 reroads regardress. No worries, comrades. Lao Zieh
|
|
|
TN, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 7:40:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By LaoZiehWun:
Lao Zieh use "FC" long time from porice range. Arways road to velocity specs, whatever burret, or powder. Use first crass techniques, not ham-handed, un-observant, or sroppy. Have good tooring and measuring device too. Ammo arways first class, hot, and accurate in brack rifre. Discard after 5 reroads regardress. No worries, comrades. Lao Zieh WUT? |
|
|
MEX
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 7:48:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Wooooooooaaaaah! Ajibaja! Aiii!
There. I made a 9mm round. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 9:48:59 PM EDT
[#10]
A dozen firings?
Are you trying to say that you don't have to throw rifle brass out after 6 firings?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:10:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#11]
Y'all reveling in New Found Enlightenment had best pay attention to exactly which variation of FC cases you're loading.
And for the bazillionth time, the thin web problem has never extended to other calibers of FC brass, or at least no where the severity found in the .223 Rem brass. For this test, we'll note the primer pockets started out loose and got looser as the shots progressed. |
|
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:32:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By LaoZiehWun:
Lao Zieh use "FC" long time from porice range. Arways road to velocity specs, whatever burret, or powder. Use first crass techniques, not ham-handed, un-observant, or sroppy. Have good tooring and measuring device too. Ammo arways first class, hot, and accurate in brack rifre. Discard after 5 reroads regardress. No worries, comrades. Lao Zieh You're a tool... |
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:32:56 PM EDT
[#13]
I believe FC 07 is military contract brass, is it not? Commercial brass does not have the year date. Military brass usually is built to a thicker standard because the contract requires it. Did the brass seem soft like Federal's commercial line or was it tough like other military brass? Did it originally have a crimped in primer? Swaging a crimped primer work hardens the case head and actually will allow the brass to achieve more firings at modest loads before the pocket expands. I avoid Federal commercial brass. One reload is the rule, then I scrap them. Mil spec is a different animal and I'll keep my mind and eyes open to the possibility that some of it is useable.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:33:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By d_striker:
I did a similar test but with FC 223 brass from Federal Value Packs from WW. All held up for 6 firings. Primer pockets were fine. The only problem that I see with this brass is that some of it is VERY short. Like under 1.740" short. The picture below is from a case that was around 1.738". The tip of the bullet caught on the feed ramp and the shoulder got all bent up. Had to hold the charging handle and butt stroke my rifle to get it out. http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/dominomofo/IMG_2365.jpg Hard to tell from the picture, but it almost looks like that round was over-crimped, crushing the shoulder before it was even loaded in a magazine. If you look at the case mouth, where it is crimped, is it crimped a lot? It looks like it may be but its hard to tell from the photo. This normally happens when the crimp die gets screwed down too far. This case may have just been really long, engaging the crimp too much, crushing the shoulder. |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:49:33 PM EDT
[#15]
new fed. commercial brass is much better than the old. I get on average 7-8 reloads out of it before the primers start backing out. The FC mil spec brass does just as good as LC for me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:54:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Glad to hear the positive reports.
Just got some once fired FC (primer crimped) brass to test. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 10:56:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Good test! I was curious also. Can you cut one of the cases lengthwise and look for case thinning?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 11:02:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Any of you guys use 9mm, 45 or 40 FC brass with any problems??
|
|
|
|
MEX
|
Posted: 5/3/2009 11:07:29 PM EDT
[#19]
FC pistol brass is the best, especially 9mm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:08:00 AM EDT
[#20]
FC pistol brass is great.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:12:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Good test! I was curious also. Can you cut one of the cases lengthwise and look for case thinning? All it takes is a vice a hacksaw, and some brass you are willing to sacrifice. |
|
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:26:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By 918v:
FC pistol brass is the best, especially 9mm. I don't like it that much. The only time I've experienced bullet setback has been w/ FC brass in 9mm. I do use a Lee FCD...Maybe I just had a worn out batch of brass. |
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 7:04:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Y'all reveling in New Found Enlightenment had best pay attention to exactly which variation of FC cases you're loading. And for the bazillionth time, the thin web problem has never extended to other calibers of FC brass, or at least no where the severity found in the .223 Rem brass. For this test, we'll note the primer pockets started out loose and got looser as the shots progressed. I agree. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 9:04:18 AM EDT
[#24]
There's two different kinds of FC brass.
Did yours have the primer pocket crimped or sealed? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 9:05:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By LaoZiehWun:
Lao Zieh use "FC" long time from porice range. Arways road to velocity specs, whatever burret, or powder. Use first crass techniques, not ham-handed, un-observant, or sroppy. Have good tooring and measuring device too. Ammo arways first class, hot, and accurate in brack rifre. Discard after 5 reroads regardress. No worries, comrades. Lao Zieh 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 9:10:08 AM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Y'all reveling in New Found Enlightenment had best pay attention to exactly which variation of FC cases you're loading. And for the bazillionth time, the thin web problem has never extended to other calibers of FC brass, or at least no where the severity found in the .223 Rem brass. For this test, we'll note the primer pockets started out loose and got looser as the shots progressed. I disagree the thin web was notorious in 95-96 for .40S&W i actually had a NIB 180gr fed HS kaboom in my g23 now it could have been the glock or the ammo ...but Federal actually changed its .40 desgin in 96 to compensate for Glocks ..... BUT as for .233/5.56 I bought 1k of 06/07 brass its very nice ...on third loading on that ....no problems yet |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 10:30:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Good test! I was curious also. Can you cut one of the cases lengthwise and look for case thinning? All it takes is a vice a hacksaw, and some brass you are willing to sacrifice. I am curious to see the FC case that was used in the test sectioned lengthwise. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 10:38:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Good test!!
It's good to see that we're slowing debunking the FC brass is bad myth. It'll mean more brass for all of us in the long run. |
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 10:56:24 AM EDT
[#29]
All that in less time than it takes to get a Domino's pizza delivered?
Let me be the first to say - "Pics or video, or it never happened." |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 11:01:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#30]
Originally Posted By abpt1:
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Y'all reveling in New Found Enlightenment had best pay attention to exactly which variation of FC cases you're loading. And for the bazillionth time, the thin web problem has never extended to other calibers of FC brass, or at least no where the severity found in the .223 Rem brass. For this test, we'll note the primer pockets started out loose and got looser as the shots progressed. I disagree the thin web was notorious in 95-96 for .40S&W i actually had a NIB 180gr fed HS kaboom in my g23 now it could have been the glock or the ammo ...but Federal actually changed its .40 desgin in 96 to compensate for Glocks ..... BUT as for .233/5.56 I bought 1k of 06/07 brass its very nice ...on third loading on that ....no problems yet That's related to the unsupported chamber and the thickness of the case wall transition from the web to the constant thickness portion. Originally Posted By markm:
Good test!! It's good to see that we're slowing debunking the FC brass is bad myth. It'll mean more brass for all of us in the long run. Your constant drum beat on this topic is disingenuous. The facts are clear that there are some vintages of .223 Rem FC brass from their American Eagle ammunition that are good for one reload at best. The LC headstamp has been showing up in AE brass for about 3 years now, and recent runs of brass with FC headstamps have heads with web thicknesses comparable to other makes of brass. There is no clear break point that can be identified. Whether Federal would tell us, I don't know, and it's worth asking. It's also a fact that some FC brass has webs in the 0.145 inch thick range, and that this brass is substandard for reloading, at least at normal pressures. Even while this brass was the only common type, several people reported using it for several reloads with mild charges. That is a fact. Here's another fact: there are plenty of the thin web cases still in circulation or in storage. I have a few hundred set back for emergency use. This means that anyone that is prudent is checking the cases they have so they know the web dimensions in their cases. Knowing is everything. Guessing, assuming, or hoping it all works out is nothing. That is also a fact. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:14:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Your constant drum beat on this topic is disingenuous. It's really simple. If Joe Shooter goes to walmart and finds some bulk pack Federal, he's got good brass to reload. Most folks aren't going to come in contact with the bad brass. The apes that brainlessly repeat the "FC brass is bad" myth are not doing any of us any favors. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:28:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#32]
Originally Posted By markm:
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Your constant drum beat on this topic is disingenuous. It's really simple. If Joe Shooter goes to walmart and finds some bulk pack Federal, he's got good brass to reload. Most folks aren't going to come in contact with the bad brass. The apes that brainlessly repeat the "FC brass is bad" myth are not doing any of us any favors. The apes, or at least the ones that traipse through here, need to read the fucking manual so they understand the complete story. The information is not hard to find here, there are at least three ways, but all three require reading, and then comprehending what is read. I'm not 100% convinced that there isn't still some new loaded ammunition in stock out there with the old cases. But even if Federal has made a shift away from the old brass style, there's still lots of it in circulation, so reloaders shouldn't discount the possibility of getting it if they buy once fired cases. My point is that everyone should sure about what they're buying and loading. I've set the archive status and linked this thread under my post in the Gateway thread. |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:35:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By rippersde50:
Any of you guys use 9mm, 45 or 40 FC brass with any problems?? Early Federal .40 when loaded to Major, had issues. Old = headstamp "FC" or SMALL LETTERS "Federal" New = large letters "Federal" search the .40 cal reloading forum at www.brianenos.com |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:39:02 PM EDT
[#34]
I loaded my FC "test batch" 8 times before retiring it. Started to get a large number of split necks.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:45:24 PM EDT
[#35]
i am going to check that 40 forum when i get home thx for the link
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 12:46:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
FC pistol brass is great. Thats been my experience too, with 9mm, 38spl, and 45acp brass. I had a small batch (100pcs) of once fired FC stamped 223 brass, from around 03, and it was total crap. Extremely loose primer pockets. I loaded it once, fired it, tossed it into the recycle bucket. I plan to avoid FC stamped 223 brass for a while. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 4:03:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Back in 2005-06 I had a batch that the primer pockets were so loose that the primer rattled upon the very first reload. By the second reload was attempted, the primer wouldn't stay in the case at all.
This was FC .223 REM, not "FC 0X" brass which many have stated it a completely different critter. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2009 5:04:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By asknight:
This was FC .223 REM, not "FC 0X" brass which many have stated it a completely different critter. Yep. I still have an old box of Federal .223 hollow points loaded in the bad brass. |
|
|
|
ID, USA
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 11:08:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By Chris_1522: There's two different kinds of FC brass. Did yours have the primer pocket crimped or sealed? He says he ran it through a super swage, so I would assume the primer pockets were crimped. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 11:25:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Yep. The FC brass you find in Walmart bulk packs is the same that you'll find in the AE223 Black Boxes. Good stuff in my experience. I've reloaded a bunch of it.
I too have had some of the 90s bad brass, and the current FC is nice. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 11:53:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Unrelated to the case head thickness issue, I have a small lot (300+/- cases) of "FC 07" headstamped brass, and I measured the weight of 25 cases, And they were very consistent. All within three tenths of a grain, IIRC.
I have found the the FC 07 brass is very short, in the 1.740" area. This was also the case for the "FC .223" cases, which were not as consistent in weight. I don't have my notes in front of me, but my suspicion at the was the FC 07 was from a government contract run. All the cases, 07 and .223, came from a police range. I personally don't trust FC .223 brass much beyond a couple loadings. YMMV. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#42]
The FC 223 brass is short for sure. But I like that in that you can get a few loadings without trimming.
FC 07 or 04, 05, etc. Has been really good too. |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 6:56:34 PM EDT
[#43]
How did this two year old thread get dragged up?
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 7:26:41 PM EDT
[#44]
No experience with Federal 223 brass, but I can't say I am enthused about Federal 9 mm brass – whenever I reload and I run into loose primer pockets, 9 times out of 10 it is Federal brass. That tells me something…..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 10:22:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By jlow:
No experience with Federal 223 brass, but I can't say I am enthused about Federal 9 mm brass – whenever I reload and I run into loose primer pockets, 9 times out of 10 it is Federal brass. That tells me something….. Roger that! I toss ALL my FC 9mm brass into the recycler as I find it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/27/2011 10:23:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#46]
Originally Posted By Assaulter:
How did this two year old thread get dragged up? Notice when you are on page 1, it says 1 / 41. So there are 41 pages available to view. Go to the last couple of pages of this forum and you will find all of the threads that have the toggle set (that symbel next to the thread title). The toggle being set keeps that thread out of the archives. Anyone can read them there or post in them "to bring them back to life". If a thread goes into the archives, you have to be a Team Member to view them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/17/2011 10:44:35 AM EDT
[#47]
KB7DX asked for a cross section back in 09.....here it is!
  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/17/2011 10:46:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Ah... you found it.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/17/2011 4:52:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By BeerBender: Ah... you found it. Yes I did! I'm glad Federal finally changed things around. I always liked using their pistol brass. Now I'll be using their rifle brass too! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/17/2011 4:55:34 PM EDT
[#50]
I've been using TONS of the FC 223 brass lately. It's really great reloading brass. I found about a hundred rounds of that and a hundred rounds of UMC brass Sunday. I just finished prepping it all last night.
|
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
