Here's a good excuse, they are stripper-clip fed!

Not too mention larger and heavier than the Kalashnikov. I doubt they are even as reliable, and probably aren’t as rust-proof as my hexavalent chrome-lined chamber/bore/bolt AK's.

I agree that a Mosin Nagant is a better choice for a 'less spensive' rifle; because the 7.62x54r is a 1300 yard round.

Quoted: Quoted: If you mean emergency defense "in the home", then neither, get a .38, or better yet, a 4.10 pump, with Feild shot. Rack the slide and watch em have a heart attack, if you have to fire, you won't kill your neighbor or the paperboy. If you mean outside of the home, the SKS is reliable, acurate, and better yet... proven. 10 rounds will be ample in most situations. Ignore that advice. Get SKS, stripper clips, and the chinese chest rigs. Also pick up a front sight adjustment tool. Leave them bone stock - don't make any mods They will serve you very well.

Yep,

   What he said. Dollar for dollar the SKS is the best bargain out there. Get lots of ammo, have it all on stripper clips and above all,  train.  Practice loading,  firing and reloading under stress. (fun stress like a contest or timed event )

     I like the other posters advice about the head of the household having an AK (in the same caliber ) for a Squad automatic weapon substitute.

  If you want a bargain handgun , get a CZ-52 , the SKS of handguns,  or makarov for non-combatants

Quoted: M44 Moisin-Nagant, the predecessor to the SKS. 7.62x54R is dirt cheap and hits like a freight train. Simon Oh...it's a bolt gun.

The Mosin M44 is good , but to a novice they kick like a mule. SKS is only a few bucks more and is much milder to shoot, but it remains a proven killer.

I really like my SKS!! Great tank of a gun has been reliable for me.

Just remember that one weapon does not fit all situations, SKS would be good for defending the home IF you need longer shots. A shot gun may be better for close up, Pistols for confined spaces. Match the weapon for the circumstances.

Go to www.theboxotruth.com/ to see what different weapons can do and can't do!!
"A pistol is a pistol , a rifle is a rifle , but a 12 gauge slug is something else entirelly."

Not too expensive to do-  less than $500, my Colt revolver was more expensive than my SKS. Practice and know how to do a little gun smithing would be good skills

After you have a few basics then get more specfic weapons for hunting larger game (don't ask what caliber would be best, just  becomes a pissing contest in here, get what you can kill with), 22LR for practice and small game (cheap to shoot and stock up on ammo).

Then you spend the big money for the expensive toys like AR's, 1911, etc.....


Sorry guys but all of us are not rich and have to save for even the most basic toys.

Quoted: The Mosin M44 is good , but to a novice they kick like a mule. SKS is only a few bucks more and is much milder to shoot, but it remains a proven killer.

Yeah, and exactly HOW accurate is an SKS at 300 yards???  I've see guys shoot better than MOA from Mosin-Nagants and 8mm Mauser at 400 yards; while the SKS has a hard time even hitting the paper that far!

The SKS isn't a carbine, like the Mini-14 or M4, and it’s not accurate as a rifle (like the M1 or M1A) so what good is it?
They are garbage.... what makes them worse is that they aren’t incredibly reliable like the Kalashnikov. I've yet to find them good for anything but plinking, shooting beer cans off the fence, etc.

Anything but an SKS... I’ve forced myself to have an open mind about them but I have never witnessed (or heard of) one shooting better than 4-5 inches at 100 yards.

Show me one capable of hitting a milk jug at 200 yards and I'll change my tune.
For CQB, give me an 870 with an extended mag tube.

Quoted: Quoted: The Mosin M44 is good , but to a novice they kick like a mule. SKS is only a few bucks more and is much milder to shoot, but it remains a proven killer. Yeah, and exactly HOW accurate is an SKS at 300 yards???  I've seen guys shoot better ( what about wives and teenage daughters ) than MOA from Mosin-Nagants and 8mm Mauser at 400 yards; while the SKS has a hard time even hitting the paper that far! The SKS isn't a carbine, like the Mini-14 or M4, and it’s not accurate as a rifle (like the M1 or M1A) so what good is it? They are garbage.... what makes them worse is that they aren’t incredibly reliable like the Kalashnikov. I've yet to find them good for anything but plinking, shooting beer cans off the fence, etc. Anything but an SKS... I’ve forced myself to have an open mind about them but I have never witnessed (or heard of) one shooting better than 4-5 inches at 100 yards. Show me one capable of hitting a milk jug at 200 yards and I'll change my tune. For CQB, give me an 870 with an extended mag tube.

 The question was how to cheaply arm family members in SHTF. Not what a head of household/primary combatant would carry.

Your arguments are all over the map. An SKS is bad because it won't hit a milk jug at 200 yards, but a shotgun is better ? How many milk jugs can you hit at 200 yards with a shotgun ? Can a 12 or 13 year old or a 125 pound wife handle a shotgun like you ? Have you ever trained a young woman to shoot 12 ga slugs ?

  If the original poster could afford it, I'm sure he would just get AR15/M4type weapons for everyone. (That's what I did )

 As far as an SKS not being reliable, that has not been my experience. I have fired hundreds of  rounds of every flavor of ammo through various SKS rifles with no failures. Ever.

  Not trying to start a flame war. I agree that main battle rifles in .308 and rifles in .223 are better until you take in budget considerations.

 

I own an AK-47 and a Mosin Nagant M44. The way I see it, the SKS is a compromise between the two... a little more accurate than the AK-47, semi-automatic, and with a greater capacity than the Mosin Nagant. The SKS can do everything "ok" but nothing "very good." The Mosin Nagant has better range, accuracy, and power. The AK-47 has a much higher capacity, is lighter, and is much better for close quarters fighting.

AK-47 ($350-550)
Semi-auto for most civilians
30 round detachable magazine
Quick to reload
Light weight
Mediocre accuracy
Medium power

SKS ($120-200)
Semi-auto
10 round internal magazine
Can be loaded at a decent speed with stripper clips
Heavy
Decent accuracy, slightly better than AK-47
Medium power

Mosin Nagant ($70-100)
Bolt-action
5 round internal magazine
Slow to load
Heavy
Good accuracy
High power


Get whatever suits you. The Mosin Nagant would make the best long range gun, very well suited for hunting, and could be used as a sniper rifle if you go to the trouble mounting a scope. The AK-47 would make the best SHTF rifle. The SKS is pretty much in between the Mosin Nagant and the AK-47.

If you find yourself in a situation that one excellent condition SKS, a case of ammo and a competent shooter cannot get you out of, then chances are nothing else legally available would save you anyway. I have heard of no stories during Katrina where anyone with a rifle was harmed by attackers.

I agree. Whatever gun you get, you'll probably be fine. Any gun is better than no gun in a SHTF situation. Rioters and looters look for easy targets. If you are armed, they'd rather find someone else to mess with.

As a front line offensive weapon,the sks is outclassed by so many other weapons,however for post shtf defensive use,if you only had one firearm you could do a whole lot worse.The accuracy of the sks varies,I have a romanian the shoots patterns at 100yrds,and a few yugos that will do an 1.5 to 2" off the bench or prone with a tight sling,bayonet extended and me doing my part.
A lot can be said for the shotgun from 0 to 50 yrds,and even further with a rifled slug barrel for it,however the quality,accurate slugs are a little spendy to buy and stockpile,while 7.62X39 ammo can still be found cheap,and IMHO the russian ammo situation will improve someday.Also reloading the sks is slower than an ar or an ak,but much faster than the shotgun.As for reliability,in my experence I have only had one jam with an sks and that was when trying to use a duckbill mag.
Good luck with what ever way you go.

I think you guys missed my point, so let me try to explain…

The SKS is NOT as accurate as an AK, nor is it as reliable. Add to this that it is larger and heavier… and that leads me to my question, what good is it? I mean, it’s not a carbine, and the lack of accuracy makes it a poor rifle. Besides, this whole discussion is largely based on home defense, and it’s proven time and time again that the best WTSHTF weapon in un-trained hands is a shot-gun.

Do you see Thunder Ranch hosting any SKS seminars, I doubt it, but how many shotgun courses do they have for CQB???

SKS is garbage, the Mosin Nagant, British Enfield .303, Turkish Mausers are SOOOOO much better if you want a rifle.

If you want a carbine, get a siaga.

If you want something to defend your home, get an 870 w/an extended mag tube and a surefire forend.

I think you're missing the point:
Arm family cheaply.
SKS's are cheaper than AK's and a lot less recoil than a Mosin.

Quoted: I think you guys missed my point, so let me try to explain…

I'm not missing the point.
In fact, I am making 3 valid, factual points:
1. SKS's are only MODERATLY less expensive than a Saiga/WASR.
2. SKS is not capable of any type of acceptable accuracy; it is large, heavy, and not as reliable as the Kalashnikov.
3. A pump shotgun; like a Norinco, Mossy, or 870 will serve you far better for defense in a practical situation, such as a home break-in.

The SKS is garbage and has no place in my arsenal.

Quoted: I'm not missing the point. In fact, I am making 3 valid, factual points: 1. SKS's are only MODERATLY less expensive than a Saiga/WASR. 2. SKS is not capable of any type of acceptable accuracy; it is large, heavy, and not as reliable as the Kalashnikov. 3. A pump shotgun; like a Norinco, Mossy, or 870 will serve you far better for defense in a practical situation, such as a home break-in. The SKS is garbage and has no place in my arsenal.

Don't know anout your points.  

1.  I can buy 3 Yugo SKS 59/66 rifles for the price of my WASR-10, with money left over for around 500 rounds.

2.  It is in the same class of accuracy as my WASR-10, not like in a SHTF situation we are going to be bench shooting.

3.  He wasn't talking about a pratical situation like a home break in.  He specifically mentioned Hurricane Katrina as a possible situation for which he was arming himself.

No one cares if you think they are trash, your choice not to buy them.  Many more people swear by them.  

Quoted: 3.  He wasn't talking about a pratical situation like a home break in.  He specifically mentioned Hurricane Katrina as a possible situation for which he was arming himself.

I can't think of a single situation that could have cropped up during Katrina (and I was here) where a SKS would have been better than a "riot" type shotgun.  The only place an SKS would be better is in a real TEOTWAWKI situation where the law simply isn't going to be coming back and you can get away with shooting people at 30+meters.  IF you want to prepare for that situation (I have) then go ahead, but the prudent person concerned about survival should wory about the more likely events first.

Quoted: 1. SKS's are only MODERATLY less expensive than a Saiga/WASR.

Apparently you have no idea how much a Yugo SKS costs.

2. SKS is not capable of any type of acceptable accuracy; it is large, heavy, and not as reliable as the Kalashnikov. 3. A pump shotgun; like a Norinco, Mossy, or 870 will serve you far better for defense in a practical situation, such as a home break-in. The SKS is garbage and has no place in my arsenal.

I haven't shot mine enough to argue accuracy or reliability, have you?
He's not talking about home break ins.

Quoted: 1.  I can buy 3 Yugo SKS 59/66 rifles for the price of my WASR-10, with money left over for around 500 rounds.

I would have to care enough about SKS’s to shop prices for them. However, the last time I looked they were $250, and Siaga’s were $300… apologies if this is no longer the case.

Quoted: 2.  It is in the same class of accuracy as my WASR-10, not like in a SHTF situation we are going to be bench shooting.

I have shot a WASR at 400 yard steel at the Hill Country rifle range in Dripping Springs, TX. This same time, 2 friends with SKS’s could not make the shot. AK’s are known for 1.5-2” MOA, that’s still on paper at 400 yards. SKS’s have a nasty barrel harmonic (just like the Mini-14) and can not be made to shoot accurately. Jim Clark, Jr , probably one of the greatest living shots w/a long gun is a friend of mine… he worked out a harmonic stabilizer for the Mini-14, and it made it capable of sub MOA accuracy. There is no help for the SKS, it’s a flawed system.

Quoted: 3.  He wasn't talking about a pratical situation like a home break in.  He specifically mentioned Hurricane Katrina as a possible situation for which he was arming himself.

Oh, so now shotguns aren’t good in times of civil unrest? Well heck, I’m really lucky to have stumbled into this treat… I may actually learn something here!

Speaking of…

Quoted: No one cares if you think they are trash, your choice not to buy them.  Many more people swear by them.

One would hope that a civilized populace would deduct and deduce their information through reading, research, and discussion.

In these discussions, one would also hope that this civilized populace would have a chance to ‘arrive’ at what may be considered an informed opinion.

Average groups with a WASR-10 are going to be int eh 3" range, and average groups for an SKS are going to be in the 3" to 4" range, depending on wear and shooter skill.  So I would say that they are in the same class of accuracy, neither is a tack pusher and neither is inaccurate.

Discussion is fine, but trashing a rifle because its not up to your standards is not discussion.

Quoted: Average groups with a WASR-10 are going to be int eh 3" range, and average groups for an SKS are going to be in the 3" to 4" range, depending on wear and shooter skill.  So I would say that they are in the same class of accuracy, neither is a tack pusher and neither is inaccurate. Discussion is fine, but trashing a rifle because its not up to your standards is not discussion.

The SKS is a waste of time, tactfully speaking. The only reason they are so prevalent is because you could buy them for $75 about 20 years ago.

If I'm in a thread full of people who think otherwise, I need to do one of two things.
1. Explain my position, w/supporting evidence.
2. Find a thread up to my standards.

Claiming the SKS/AK to be in the same league, from an accuracy standpoint, is erroneous. You like the SKS; I do not, so let’s discuss it.

Find a role that the SKS fits in, any role, and I'll find you something in it's price range that is better?

Quoted: Quoted: Average groups with a WASR-10 are going to be int eh 3" range, and average groups for an SKS are going to be in the 3" to 4" range, depending on wear and shooter skill.  So I would say that they are in the same class of accuracy, neither is a tack pusher and neither is inaccurate. Discussion is fine, but trashing a rifle because its not up to your standards is not discussion. The SKS is a waste of time, tactfully speaking. The only reason they are so prevalent is because you could buy them for $75 about 20 years ago. If I'm in a thread full of people who think otherwise, I need to do one of two things. 1. Explain my position, w/supporting evidence. 2. Find a thread up to my standards. Claiming the SKS/AK to be in the same league, from an accuracy standpoint, is erroneous. You like the SKS; I do not, so let’s discuss it. Find a role that the SKS fits in, any role, and I'll find you something in it's price range that is better?

Yugos go for under $100 around here, when the shipment comes in on thursday im getting my first one.

Ok, if you want to have a discussion, you pick an ak varient, and tell me its accuracy and price.  I will stick to the Russian SKS, which is capable of 1" - 2" groups at a hundred yards.  The russian sks clocks in at around 250.  Oh and also, the SKS weighs 3.86 kg while empty, while the AK weighs 4.13 kg empty, with the AKM weighing 3.14 kg empty.  Sooooooo, no real difference there, esp because you do not have to deal with the weight of the mags.  

"In general, the SKS is an excellent all-around weapon that offers slightly longer range and better accuracy than Kalashnikov AK-47, but, for military use, lacks the magazine capacity and selective-fire capabilities. But for civilian use it's still hard to beat, especially when it comes to the cost/effectiveness issues."
- Modern Firearms

So, according to every website I could find, the SKS is a more accurate rifle than the AK-47.  UNless of course you are comparing a rusted out Yugo to a nice top of the line ak, but you wouldnt do that would you?


Sorry, just read your last line, wow.  "Find a role that the SKS fits in, any role, and I'll find you something in it's price range that is better?"

Ok, Find me a rifle in the 70-100 dollar range that is a semi automatic capable of hitting a man sized target and killing him out to around 300 meters.    I'll be waiting.

Good advice keep it coming guys!

WE decided not spending  $1600 on 4 WASR-10.. Or $2600 for AR rifles.
I would maybe spend look at buying 4 used norincos SKS for under $800.
Some said a shotgun is a better home defense choice but I thinkthe recoil is going to be an issue for the wife and kids.  

I am planning to keep my family protected at home for a few weeks if Local Law enfoercment does not function. In addition to Planning for all the other Realife Big Scenarios that cost money such as Retirement, kids wanting to go to the mall etc.. college, my PHD in a few years,investements,buying a bigger home etc.. I have been spread  thin.

Its a matter of  either having Arms or not. Hopefully nothing bad happens where we have to flee and run away but if thats the case. I doubt highways and streets would be under freindly control, so taking all our guns and ammo on foot would be insane instead of food and water. Truly surviving depends food and water I could see where 1 rifle & 200rds would slow one down a little.

Maybe I am wrong?

If you have a family of 4, I would get 4 Yugo SKS for 90 a piece, 2 mosin nagants for 80 a piece, and maybe a couple of CZ-52 pistols for say a hundred or so a piece.  That would put the total at around 720.  Spend the rest on ammo or something.  With this you have 4 main battle rifles, 2 long range rifles, and 2 close in defense pistols.  That is how I would arm a small army if I was on a budget.

Of course everything could be up for change.  I chose Mosin Nagants because the ammo is cheap, but if supreme accuracy was the goal, you couldn't go wrong with a K31.  On the handgun front, the CZ's could easily be replaced with a makarov or a similar cheap pistol that is reliable as all hell.

Quoted: “the Russian SKS, which is capable of 1" - 2" groups at a hundred yards.” “the SKS is lighter than the AK” “makarov or a similar cheap pistol that is reliable as all hell.”

OK, so let me get this strait; the SKS more accurate, and lighter than the AK… and the Makarov is reliable?


Time to enact bullet point 2 from my 3/14/2006 6:27:17 PM CST post.

hmm...

After I shot about 200-300 rounds through my Makarov it has been 100% reliable.. It is an unissued bulgarian. I had a few FTF issues with cone tip Wolf FMJ btu since breaking it in a bit it has been 100% reliable. It has always shot Barnaul Hollowpoints reliably and accurately.

I have an unissued Yugo SKS that has been reliable 100% since I bought it. I've never shot paper or any targets further out than 50-75 yards. Inside that distance it's everything any other commonly availible rifle is, acceptable to hit a man sized target... outside that I can't quote and I don't really see the reason to shoot something that far away with a gun that is not really designed to be a 100+ yard shooter.

I also have a romanian SAR1 that had a bent Gas piston that caused a few failures to return to battery. My SARs gas piston was not loosely fitted so it would get jammed up when the piston went into the gas block... It was an easy fix but when it was still bent it was horribly unreliable after it got dirty and was so innaccurate I really couldn't hit a thing with it.

After fixing that issue it's been more reliable but only marginally more accurate.. I may have a lemon AK and one DAMN nice SKS..

If you shoot both guns side by side MY SKS is infinitely more accurate.

I don't know how you guys are hitting anything at 200 yards with an AK or an SKS.

I doubt I could hit a 200 Yard target with iron sights using an AR an AK an FAL etc. I could just be a mediocre shot though... I have only been shooting less than a year and I never bench shoot.

I can believe what I have experienced personally or I can choose to believe what some yahoo on a website says. I don't think you are going to convince any happy SKS owners that their gun is crap and to sell it for whatever gun you think is better... There are better guns out there but I like my SKS well enough to keep it.

if you're so hot to trot on an AR or an 870 no one is stopping you from buying one or 10.

Likewise no one is stopping me from enjoying my seemingly accurate SKS and dealing with my wildly innaccurate bullet hose of an AK.

Call me crazy but isn't discussing the long range accuracy of a semi version of a bullet hose AK and a semi rifle designed to be carried by large groups a little pointless?

The AK and the SKS were designed to be effective through volume of fire not inherent accuracy..

the AK by being Select fire and the SKS by being cheap to supply in volume.

The same holds true for the SKS now but we in the US are limited to Semi AKs so their only benefit is weight and mag capacity.

Honestly??

I'll take a Browning or Winnie Lever in .308 over my shoulder and my Sig on my hip with 200 rounds for each. I'd toss the AK and SKS in my Jeep with my two crates of surplus.

lever for hunting... Sig for SD... AK and SKS for defending home base and extended fire fights.

I'd bring the AK and the SKS simply because I have them and lots of ammo for them but I wouldn't be uncomfortable with a .308 lever to hunt and engage targets at virtually any distance with one shot stopping power and a handgun for anything too close.

If I need a separate gun for close range I'll take a handgun over a second long gun to save space.

If I need shotgun like qualities for hunting birds or small critters I guess can get some CCI shot shells for my pistol.

Ideally I'd like to have 2 or 3 of those Keltec K2000 carbines that fold in half and use Glock mags, a glock 19 each, a stack of 33rd mags and standard G19 mags. Then the lever for food and long range and something on my hip... probably a glock for compatible mags.

In terms of weight, reliability, and women/childrens effectiveness shooting the keltecs would be best... the Cost of 2-3 Glocks and 2-3 400$ carbines is an issue though. You could buy 2 sks's for the price of one Keltec.

goodoleboy,

20ga is almost as good as 12ga... Grab up a 870 20ga.  IF the SHTF the wife and kids will be able to use  it.  I was 15, all of 115lbs and able to take 3" mag slugs through my first 12ga.  Repeatedly.  It wasn't fun, but I had to practice just incase my first shot didn't take down the deer.

"new" Yugo SKS are 89-109/ea here.  (I DID sell my Norinco for 2x that price though...)  You probably won't need to hit anything past 100yds so this is a good CHEAP mid range gun.  Everybody will be able to shoot it.  We had an 8 year old cousin shooting mine with the only problem managing the length b/c of his short arms.  And even HE was hitting targets with it.  The only thing he had shot before that was my 10/22 earlier that day.  AKs are 300-450 here...

You want something low recoil, good stopping power, that everyone can use AND is cheap.  Not many other places to turn.

this is to funny not to reread.

GlockandRoll
Member since Feb 2006
Post count 117


No need to say anything else.


Oh yeah, giving a combat type shotgun to a new shooter?!?!? oh my gawd.......

Quoted: GlockandRoll Member since Feb 2006 Post count 117 No need to say anything else. Oh yeah, giving a combat type shotgun to a new shooter?!?!? oh my gawd.......

+1
Ask some of the Nebraska Arfcom members that were at Hamburg bend a few weeks ago what about the SKS's -vs- blue rock.

Quoted: Quoted: GlockandRoll Member since Feb 2006 Post count 117 No need to say anything else. Oh yeah, giving a combat type shotgun to a new shooter?!?!? oh my gawd....... +1 Ask some of the Nebraska Arfcom members that were at Hamburg bend a few weeks ago what about the SKS's -vs- blue rock.

Hey otar, you are from Nebraska, What  about SKS -vs- blue rock ?

Quoted: Hey otar, you are from Nebraska, What  about SKS -vs- blue rock ?

2 of us were poppin them with sks's both iron sights, and then breaking up some of the larger parts. To be honest I doubt we were quite 100 yds, but I think I could walk the rounds in from 200 yds and still get the job done.
Next time I get out there I'll take the GPS and give it a try.

Quoted: GlockandRoll Member since Feb 2006 Post count 117 No need to say anything else. Oh yeah, giving a combat type shotgun to a new shooter?!?!? oh my gawd.......

I think too much stock is put into post count/join date of the site.That said you have to look no farther than Glockandroll's responses to this thread to know he is a 12yr old asshole,but that has nothing to do with his post count or when he joined

Quoted: Quoted: If you mean emergency defense "in the home", then neither, get a .38, or better yet, a 4.10 pump, with Feild shot. Rack the slide and watch em have a heart attack, if you have to fire, you won't kill your neighbor or the paperboy. If you mean outside of the home, the SKS is reliable, acurate, and better yet... proven. 10 rounds will be ample in most situations. Ignore that advice. Get SKS, stripper clips, and the chinese chest rigs. Also pick up a front sight adjustment tool. Leave them bone stock - don't make any mods. They will serve you very well.

tag

GlockandRoll obviously has never owned a quality SKS.    I've shot both the Norincos and the Yugo and personally I prefer the Yugo.   It is heavy, it is fairly accurate and probably more so than the AKs I've fired.   For $90 there is NO better buy in a defensive arm.   I have a decent supply of battle rifles but still find room for the Yugo SKS.  

Fact:   You can arm a family of 4 with Yugo SKS rifles for $360+ shipping if you get a C&R FFL.   ( get one, it's the best $30 you'll ever spend)

For a mere $500 that buys you 4 rifles and 1K of ammo.   With your $800 budget ( 4 norincos at $200 each) you have $300 remaining.   Buy a used Rem 870 and a Mosin M1938 and a bit of ammo.  

This gives you a hell of a collection and stays within your budget.  

Quoted: I think you guys missed my point, so let me try to explain… The SKS is NOT as accurate as an AK, nor is it as reliable. Add to this that it is larger and heavier… and that leads me to my question, what good is it? I mean, it’s not a carbine, and the lack of accuracy makes it a poor rifle. Besides, this whole discussion is largely based on home defense, and it’s proven time and time again that the best WTSHTF weapon in un-trained hands is a shot-gun. Do you see Thunder Ranch hosting any SKS seminars, I doubt it, but how many shotgun courses do they have for CQB??? SKS is garbage, the Mosin Nagant, British Enfield .303, Turkish Mausers are SOOOOO much better if you want a rifle. If you want a carbine, get a siaga. If you want something to defend your home, get an 870 w/an extended mag tube and a surefire forend.

I've been trying to ignore your comments, but you've gone too far.

Your an idiot. Obviously you haven't shot very many if any SKS's.

As much as I love my AK's the SKS's I have fired have been far more accurate. The trick to getting a SKS to shoot is to add to the lenght of pull. Get yourself a slip on rubber butt cuff recoil pad for your SKS. You will see your groups tighten up. My groups went from baseball size at 100 to golf ball size. Last time I was out with my chink SKS paratrooper, I was picking off shot gun shells at 50yds.

Now Drobs,glockandroll knows EVERYTHING there is to know about firearms,and if you dont believe me,just ask him

Were SKS's even imported 20 years ago? I am 40 and dont remember being able to buy an SKS 20 years ago?? I don't think this poster knows what he is talking about but I could be wrong

Glock, hate to pile on here, but SKS is a great choice for the role of "family gun".

I have one that's a long-time shooter. I have three that are very slightly modified (see below) and stored for a "rainy day". Each was broken in with 200 rounds and sighted in, scrupulously cleaned and lightly lubed, and resides now in a vacuum-sealed bag with a silica gel dessicant. Companion to each rifle is another sealed bag with a bandolier containing 100 rounds of WW soft point in strippers, a pouch with another 100 rounds (boxed), a "fixin'" kit of springs, broken shell extractor and misc stuff, and a KaBar. Total for the three emergency packs: under $750. Value if you need 'em: priceless.

Perhaps your experience has been bad, but many, MANY people can attest to the reliability of the Simonov design. I have never had an FTF in my shooter or the "reserve" guns during break-in. (though I'll admit to only a few thousand rounds).  Operating drill is simple, ergonomics are decent for a new or occasional shooter -- what's not to like?

Agree with earlier comment on length-of-pull for shooters over 5'8" or so; easily curable with aftermarket products.

Recommended mods to the typical Yugo: I lose the bayo and grenade launcher accessories. Weight you don't need. I also installed the Wlliams "peep" sight. It isn't exactly a true peep sight as it replaces the issue rear sight, so it's more like a ghost ring. But it is MUCH quicker for beginners to get early (and encouraging) hits with it -- plus I like it a lot.

Otherwise don't touch a thing.

Finally, glock: Don't pick on my Maks, man! I have never owned an autopistol as reliable as my Makarovs. Really, I don't know anyone who owns one that reports anything other than dead-nuts reliable. The earlier entry here on FTFs with the truncated cone ammo was the first I have seen.

I have  3 sks and shoot many, many of rounds through them and never had a FTF or any problem with them. Remember the sks has seen battle and is still being used in parts of the world by insurgent groups.  The sks was used in Vietnam with deadly results. While it is not an AK47 or an AR15 this rifle has it's place. It's low cost, built like a tank, uses cheap ammo that is abundent most of the time(except right now) and is legal in many states were an AK47 or AR15 may not be.
My best friend was a Navy Seal in the  early 1970's and has seen combat and used many different rifles in combat and you know what his rifle of choice is? An sks.

Quoted: Recommended mods to the typical Yugo: I lose the bayo and grenade launcher accessories. Weight you don't need.

How do you remove that stuff? And since losing that stuff voids the C&R status, is it still legal?

Quoted: Quoted: Recommended mods to the typical Yugo: I lose the bayo and grenade launcher accessories. Weight you don't need. How do you remove that stuff? And since losing that stuff voids the C&R status, is it still legal?

Nope

From the point of view of C&R status, I don't know -- I'm not a cruffler (though I'd like to be).

I acquired them over the course of about 18 months as a normal purchaser from an FFL Dealer, so it wasn't an issue. Not sold as "C&R" but as a normal firearm on a 4473. None of the mods render them problematic as they aren't "assault rifles" (no prominent pistol grip, removeable hi-cap mag, etc,) and the barrel stays over 16".

How to take all the stuff off in practice?

Well... here's my dirty secret: I handed them over to a local "Gun Repairman" (at least he's humble enough not to call himself a 'smith) in their totally slimy "cosmolened" condition, oozing out of a cellophane sleeve, with the Williams sights and a $50 bill (each time), and gave him my order. Came out nicely, with stocks cleaned up and discoloration gone, clean innards, no grenade sight or bayo. Yeah, I know, lazy, but it took mew about 8 hours to do this myself the first time, so I figured it was a bargain.

Ed for spelling

ANY gun is better than NO gun.  If that's all somebody can reasonably afford at the present time, then by all means, pick them up and practice with them.

Sorry for one more note -- this on the C&R issue.

My "gun repairman" buddy is pretty scrupulous on this stuff. Here is a segment of BATF letter on the topic (excuse the length) which we determined made things OK:



As your may be aware, the definition contained in 27 CFR 478.11 states "curio or relic" ("C&R") firearms as those "which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons." To be recognized as curio and relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date (replicas not included);

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

Classification of surplus military firearms as C&R items based on the above definition are made regarding the weapons in their original configurations. The exchange of a broken or worn part would not remove a C&R firearm from the classification -- nor would the attachment of a telescopic sight, provided that the firearm wasn't significantly modified to accept the scope.

However, if, for example the original stock shoulder stock were removed from a Yugoslavian M59/66 and an aftermarket shoulder stock (having a pistol grip) installed, then the firearm would not be classified as a curio and relic. Similarly, if the original fixed magazine were removed and a large capacity (more than 10 round) magazine installed, the C&R classification would be voided. As compared to firearms in their original configuration, modified C&R firearms would have little or no value to licensed collectors.

Please note that licensed collectors may use their C&R firearms for recreational purposes, provided that the use of particular firearms in this manner does not violate any State or local ordinances. Also, the bayonet and grenade launcher may be removed for shooting purposes without affecting the C&R classification of the firearm.

Enclosed for further information on this subject are the following two pamphlets: Assembly of Semiautomatic Rifles and Shotguns from Imported Parts Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and Semiautomatic Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing should be helpful.

Sincerely yours,

Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch


Now, you might question the Williams sights, and I think if you use the front "firesight", you might have a problem, but I believe the rear would pass muster like the scope as it doesn't give eeeeevil night sight capability (which insures you never miss innocent people in the dark, or something).

Something not mentioned yet, training someone to use an SKS should be easier than most any other autoloader, if they can figuer out how to use a 10/22 they can figure a SKS.
Plenty of people out there who know how to shoot but don't shoot autoloading rifles or they are caught away from their own guns when TSHTF.

Quoted: Were SKS's even imported 20 years ago? I am 40 and dont remember being able to buy an SKS 20 years ago?? I don't think this poster knows what he is talking about but I could be wrong

I can answer this question with some authority.
I bought my first SKS, a Norinco, in 1994. As far as I knew they had only recently been brought into the country. I think it was Slick Willie signing his chinese government surplus equipment bll that allowed widespread importation. Before that I would bet most were either grey market or vet bring backs.

for a SHTF situation the SKS is THE perfect rifle.
the com-bloc chest pouches contain 240 rounds of 7.62 on 10rd. stripper clips which can be quickly reloaded.
the SKS is accurate, reliable and hard hitting - and kids love to shoot them after they get a few rounds through them!    i had to fight to get my SKS back from a 9 year old kid at the local plinking range - lol.

My Makarov (12rd hi-cap version) has been 100% reliable and amazingly accurate for what i paid for it.

Everybody needs at least one shotgun for any SHTF. . .does anybody remember during the '92 riots in LA  - the first ammo to be gone from the shelves was shotgun ammo..

get two SKS's, one shotgun, a Makarov pistol(loaded with Hornady XTP) AND a Marlin model 60 .22cal.

two SKS - $300

Makarov 9mm - $150-200

shotgun - $75-$200 preferably 20gauge

Marlin 60 - $100
___________________________________
= $800
(excluding ammo)

Quoted: for a SHTF situation the SKS is THE perfect rifle. the com-bloc chest pouches contain 240 rounds of 7.62 on 10rd. stripper clips which can be quickly reloaded. the SKS is accurate, reliable and hard hitting - and kids love to shoot them after they get a few rounds through them!    i had to fight to get my SKS back from a 9 year old kid at the local plinking range - lol. My Makarov (12rd hi-cap version) has been 100% reliable and amazingly accurate for what i paid for it. Everybody needs at least one shotgun for any SHTF. . .does anybody remember during the '92 riots in LA  - the first ammo to be gone from the shelves was shotgun ammo.. get two SKS's, one shotgun, a Makarov pistol(loaded with Hornady XTP) AND a Marlin model 60 .22cal. two SKS - $300 Makarov 9mm - $150-200 shotgun - $75-$200 preferably 20gauge Marlin 60 - $100 ___________________________________ = $800 (excluding ammo)

+1

Good post and good advice. Well done Colt .