Is the Liberty Timber Ridge 23 the same animal as the Colonial 23?

The Timber Ridge is not shown on the Liberty Website.

TIA

Quoted: Is the Liberty Timber Ridge 23 the same animal as the Colonial 23? The Timber Ridge is not shown on the Liberty Website. TIA

from my understanding, the 'timber ridge' series the same exact thing as the liberty standard models but made for stores like 'gander mountain' so they do not have to honor their 'price matching' to other stores.

But it is, all in all, the same safe.

thanks chromeluv, that is where it was listed (Gander Mountain).  They had a $100 rebate going for that model, making it $699 and it's local.  The sticker on it spec'ed it as the 12ga steel and 45min @ 1200F fire rating.  Same as what I saw on the Liberty Website for the Colonial.

Good deal?  Seems OK after some internet research.

Don't really want to drop the buck at this time but, I had to move some stuff (appartment living) into a damp environment and my crappy Stack-On locker and make-shift safe storage does'nt cutt it.  Never did but, it is far worse now.

Quoted: thanks chromeluv, that is where it was listed (Gander Mountain).  They had a $100 rebate going for that model, making it $699 and it's local. Good deal?  Seems OK after some internet research. Don't really want to drop the buck at this time but, I had to move some stuff (appartment living) and my crappy locker does'nt cutt it.

Tell ya the truth, 'little story' for ya.

I am a student, so money isn't 'abundant' Before I bought my liberty locally, I stored all my firearms in my closet. I had a modest collection, but all of it put together was over 10grand.  I bought the safe mainly because the local store had a great deal, and they had 6 months financing, same as cash with minimum payments. I had the cash to pay for it right there, but 6 months to space it out, couldn't say no. Paid for half of it, financed the rest.

2 months later, my apartment was burglarized.  I couldn't imagine what would have happened if I didn't have that safe.  So, dont be afraid to dip down a little more than usual for a liberty safe, they are great.

As for a 23, not sure, how many firearms do you own? Long guns/pistols/ammo, etc?

I hear ya!

Got enough stuff to fill that 23. Hubble-scoped rifles eat up the space.

Not interested in the long term, I'll sell it at a loss when the time comes and if it's a bother to move.  Due to new appartment management, I've been put in a situation where my previosly agreed-upon appartment privacy respects are no longer respected, so I pulled everything out.  Even with a nice vault where I am at, I don't like maintance guys from other properties skirting around my stuff, and that what was to happen. Never did in the past.  People make the difference. Whole 'nother story there.

I just want something decent in that size, or the best quality to cost.  I don't want to spend over $800.   Being Christmas, anything is steep but I thought that 23 was a decent deal for $700.  Of course, less is better. The 30x60x22 seemed the best size for immediate need/investment.  I guess even if expansion was taken into play, you don't really get a deal with the big'ens!

yeah bud - i would jump on that 23 then, for $700, thats a great deal.

chromeluv, thanks for your help!
Some immediacy both in the new situation and with the fact that the rebate offer expires 12/31.  Theft, and rust, must protect!  Being a specific outlet name, same as the Colonial, its the best deal I found and no 6-8week shipping ordeal.

Quoted: chromeluv, thanks for your help! Some immediacy both in the new situation and with the fact that the rebate offer expires 12/31.  Theft, and rust, must protect!  Being a specific outlet name, same as the Colonial, its the best deal I found and no 6-8week shipping ordeal.

No problem bud, I just remember how happy I was to bring that safe home and how happy I was when I walked into my apartment after it was broken into, knowing that everything that was truly important to me (guns, computer, PDA, optics, mags, birth certificate, passport) were all locked securely.

And all gun owners should feel the same way and be mature enough to buy that safe over that next firearm you have to have

Another tip of advice, if you can afford it, and if your on the fence, pay to have it delivered if you can. Especially if you have alot of stairs in your way to your apartment. I had mine delivered, they came with an electronic dolly. in and out, it was really worth it.

if you stay in that apartment or any apartment for a year or more get renters insurance. Especially if you live on a 2nd or higher floor. If the safe god forbid falls through you are liable. With most renters insurance it will cover it and most other stuff it god forbid anything happens.

Quoted: if you stay in that apartment or any apartment for a year or more get renters insurance. Especially if you live on a 2nd or higher floor. If the safe god forbid falls through you are liable. With most renters insurance it will cover it and most other stuff it god forbid anything happens.

I've always had renters ins.  Renters ins won't cover more than a few thousand in firearms.

Quoted: Quoted: if you stay in that apartment or any apartment for a year or more get renters insurance. Especially if you live on a 2nd or higher floor. If the safe god forbid falls through you are liable. With most renters insurance it will cover it and most other stuff it god forbid anything happens. I've always had renters ins.  Renters ins won't cover more than a few thousand in firearms.

Yeah, I am with USAA and they only cover $2000 in firearms. Anything else, you have to send in a list of EVERYTHING you have to the insurance company, optics, accessories, ammo, and everytime you add a firearm, you to update their list and update the premium

The Timber Ridge is made in China by Liberty(newer ones but not all). It has a 12. GA door that is made to look 1". I've seen them opened with crow bar, 14" screw drives, and fireman axes. Don't walk run from that locker. If you go with a liberty stay with there Franklin and up. Those at least have a black plate on the door. I have pics of a Colonial 23 open with a crow bar, and a remington 17 (Colonial 17) open with two 14"  screw drivers. Get the store to take off the back door panel and look inside.

There are much better Safes out there in that price range.

*edit*

I'll scan pics and post them tomorrow night.

Lets see the pictures.

Quoted: Lets see the pictures.

Pics are at work, and at home now. I don't get off till 6 so they should be up by 7:30pm est tomorrow

*edit to add*
I work for a store that has sold Liberty Safes for over 12 years. We keep a Colonial 23 on the foor with the back door panel taken off to show people what they are getting. In town we are located at there are a few stores that sell liberty safes with different names on them (John Dear, Timber ridge, Remington, and a few others).  If you want a locker with a good fire rating, then the Colonial is fine. But if you want a Safe then that model isn't for you.

Our view at the store is, we will show you the models we sell, tell you the good and bad with them. When that is done, you tell us what you want. I will glady take the back door panel off show you the locking system, how the door is made, etc.

I have a liberty also.  Probably the best 1800 bucks I could've spent.   I leave the house now with piece of mind - both from burglery and my kids (actually their friends)

I'm having a golden rod put into mine in the next couple of weeks.

What are you guys using for storage on the side door of your liberty?

Ok 1st time using image shack so hopefully it works.
First 3 are of a C-23 that was broken into in NY State. The pictures where taken by at that time Liberty Safe employee at the Mechanicsburg PA liberty warehouse. The safe was broken into with two crow bars. As you can see in the pictures, they bent back frame of the safe and where able to bend the door frame that holds the bolts. The bolts folded back and the door came open.

*pic removed do to request*

Ok this set is from a sales rep out of TN. It is of a Remington Safe by Liberty. The safe was open with the two screw drivers in the pictures. When we 1st heard of this, it blew us away. We knew they could be open with a crow bar.. but two screw drivers. They borke into the safe doing the same thing as the above safe.

*pic removed do to request*

Now the new versions of these models have Dead blots in the back which would have done nothing to help in either of these safes. The C23 in the above pictures has the 11ga. body and the new models have a 12ga. body.

If eather of these safes would have had top or bottom bolts our feeling is they wouldn't have gotten into them. We have opened 1/4" plate door safe after being in a fire with crow bars. If the safe would have had top and bottom bolts we would have never gotten into it with just the crow bars.

*edited b/c my spelling sucks*

2 screwdrivers!?  The doorframe in the 2nd pic does'nt even look bent (for the Remington).

Any idea on the time interval?

Do the bolts just "float" through the door?  They are not bent, the are moved at a angle, with sufficient length the other end should be hitting the inside skin of the door, correct?  They must be short in length?

What would you consider a better buy for $700?
MidwayUSA has a simular sized TheftGard on sale for $799 with no shipping charge.

Quoted: 2 screwdrivers!?  The doorframe in the 2nd pic does'nt even look bent (for the Remington). Any idea on the time interval? Do the bolts just "float" through the door?  They are not bent, the are moved at a angle, with sufficient length the other end should be hitting the inside skin of the door, correct?  They must be short in length? What would you consider a better buy for $700? MidwayUSA has a simular sized TheftGard on sale for $799 with no shipping charge.

The door frame isn't bent in the 2nd set. I'm sorry I should have said it better. The frame on the door that holds the bolts is what bent. You can see all the paint taken off from where they used the screwdrivers.

The bolts didn't bend, it was the door frame that held them that failed on both of them. I talk to the guy who took the 1st set of pictures today and he has told me that pictures don't do it justice. It was bent far worest then it shows. The bolts when closed inside of the safe almost touch the wall on the side. But with bending the frame like they did, the bolts shot back and the door came open. I will try to get the guy who took the 1st set, if you would like, to eather post on here or e-mail me what happen with more details. He is out of town for a few days (work), so don't know when that will be.

Time frame on the 1st set was under 20 mins. The 2nd set is I have no idea now long it took.

The cheapest safe we deal with is $849 which is a Champion Sports 23. You can find it cheaper out there, but I never seen less then $749 for it. It has a 3/16 plate door which I don't care for, but it does have 4 way active bolts, 5 on front, one back, one top, and one bottom.

With looking at safes, find out how the door is made, make sure the door frame is reinforced. You want bolts on all 4 sides, and have them all active bolts. Dead bolts do nothing unless you are going to pull the door off.

Make sure the safe has more then the bulit in relocker in the lock.

Fire ratings out there are hard to tell from one company to the next.  They all do there own test, and some of them are the biggest joke I've ever seen now days. What I tell people is to look at how much fire board is in a safe, and how well it is put in. A composite door will get a better fire rating then a plate door. If its a interal hige safe, check and see if it has hinge pockets. Models with smaller pockets, will do better in fires.

The TheftGard on midwayUSA don't give any specs other then fire rating. They look to be made my granite safe or sun welding, if its grantie you would be better off hitting Sams club for the winchester for less money. Sun welding arn't bad low in safes.

But if you are worried about fire, liberty tested a winchester safe in the furnace Champion uses for there test. You can find it on libertys website here .
www.libertysafe.com/whylincoln.lasso?page=3

What is the diference between active and dead bolts?

Thanks for all of the info.

tag

Hmm

I just bought a Remington (Liberty) 23 gun safe for $900 with a $100 store gift card.

Should I try to return it and buy a different safe?

Quoted: Hmm I just bought a Remington (Liberty) 23 gun safe for $900 with a $100 store gift card. Should I try to return it and buy a different safe?

If it has top or bottom bolts its one of the higher end libertys so you shouldn't have the problem like the above pictures. Liberty makes diffrent grade safes from Remingtons. My understanding now is that most are coming out of China.

The top and bottom blots are the key.

Quoted: What is the diference between active and dead bolts? Thanks for all of the info.

Active bolts well.. move, if its a active bolt, doesn't matter which one it is, it alone will hold a door shut. When you move the handle on the safe they will come in and out.

Dead bolts don't move. They stay out at all times. You see them on the back part of the door where the hing is at. They do help holding the door in place from prying on the side they are on, but once you defent the active bolts they are no good. Dead bolts are cheaper snice you don't need to connect them to the locking system. They just bolt into the door.

Well I have 90 days to return/exchange it. My safe only has bolts on two sides of the door, only one side being active. What would be a good model in my price range ($900)?

Quoted: Well I have 90 days to return/exchange it. My safe only has bolts on two sides of the door, only one side being active. What would be a good model in my price range ($900)?

IM sent

tag

tag

Quoted: Quoted: 2 screwdrivers!?  The doorframe in the 2nd pic does'nt even look bent (for the Remington). Any idea on the time interval? Do the bolts just "float" through the door?  They are not bent, the are moved at a angle, with sufficient length the other end should be hitting the inside skin of the door, correct?  They must be short in length? What would you consider a better buy for $700? MidwayUSA has a simular sized TheftGard on sale for $799 with no shipping charge. The door frame isn't bent in the 2nd set. I'm sorry I should have said it better. The frame on the door that holds the bolts is what bent. You can see all the paint taken off from where they used the screwdrivers. The bolts didn't bend, it was the door frame that held them that failed on both of them. I talk to the guy who took the 1st set of pictures today and he has told me that pictures don't do it justice. It was bent far worest then it shows. The bolts when closed inside of the safe almost touch the wall on the side. But with bending the frame like they did, the bolts shot back and the door came open. I will try to get the guy who took the 1st set, if you would like, to eather post on here or e-mail me what happen with more details. He is out of town for a few days (work), so don't know when that will be. Time frame on the 1st set was under 20 mins. The 2nd set is I have no idea now long it took. The cheapest safe we deal with is $849 which is a Champion Sports 23. You can find it cheaper out there, but I never seen less then $749 for it. It has a 3/16 plate door which I don't care for, but it does have 4 way active bolts, 5 on front, one back, one top, and one bottom. With looking at safes, find out how the door is made, make sure the door frame is reinforced. You want bolts on all 4 sides, and have them all active bolts. Dead bolts do nothing unless you are going to pull the door off. Make sure the safe has more then the bulit in relocker in the lock. Fire ratings out there are hard to tell from one company to the next.  They all do there own test, and some of them are the biggest joke I've ever seen now days. What I tell people is to look at how much fire board is in a safe, and how well it is put in. A composite door will get a better fire rating then a plate door. If its a interal hige safe, check and see if it has hinge pockets. Models with smaller pockets, will do better in fires. The TheftGard on midwayUSA don't give any specs other then fire rating. They look to be made my granite safe or sun welding, if its grantie you would be better off hitting Sams club for the winchester for less money. Sun welding arn't bad low in safes. But if you are worried about fire, liberty tested a winchester safe in the furnace Champion uses for there test. You can find it on libertys website here . www.libertysafe.com/whylincoln.lasso?page=3

Not trying to hijack this thread but the points you bring up regarding bolts and plate steel are interesting. For example, I have been looking at Zanotti Armor safes for the ease of moving. Zanottis use 3/16" plate doors and no top or bottom bolts. Plus, the bolts they use are only 3/4". Would you say that a Zanotti is basically more of a security cabinet than a real safe (and a damn expensive one at that)? It seems that one could be defeated as easily as the models that you show. My thread is below if you care to provide an alternative viewpoint to the level of security that many seem satisfied with. One poster even claimed to work in a store selling safes and still chose a Zanotti over the other models he sold???

Zanotti thread

tag

No safe made is theft proof.No thief wants to spend 20mins in your house trying to open a safe.If the thief is a professional he will get your safe.He could bring a blow torch or even a dolly and a few of his friends to carry it out of your house.Your liberty safe will stop the local crack head from taking your guns but if he's a pro it doesn't matter what brand you own,he''ll get it!

Quoted: No safe made is theft proof.No thief wants to spend 20mins in your house trying to open a safe.If the thief is a professional he will get your safe.He could bring a blow torch or even a dolly and a few of his friends to carry it out of your house.Your liberty safe will stop the local crack head from taking your guns but if he's a pro it doesn't matter what brand you own,he''ll get it!

True, but I think at the minimum a safe should remove the possibility of a direct frontal assault, especially using screwdrivers and crowbars. The door of a safe should be secure enough so that simply prying it is not the method of least resistance; it should make the potential thief resort to more professional, lengthy, and NOISY methods. Bolting it down removes the simple carry it away scenario. This thread has opened my eyes, because the former info I have seen stated that the doors are secure enough to cause the thief to try other methods- I mean 20 minutes with screwdrivers

I'd have to see this done in person before i'm a believer that it only took 20mins to open.

What gets me is the screwdrivers aren't even bent.

It doesn't sell me! My screwdrivers bend on wood let alone metal.Sorry i don't buy this! Now how about getting 700 of us and each kick in a buck and see if we can open one! I called my liberty safe rep and told him about this a the first thing he didn't believe was the screwdrivers weren't bent.He then told me he deals with LE all the time and most crooks are in the the 5mins and gone.He then told me that any safe can be opened with a concrete saw and blow torch.

Quoted: I'd have to see this done in person before i'm a believer that it only took 20mins to open.

Well, I IM'd GARY_631 on Sunday and asked for him to continue adding to this thread or my Zanotti thread, but so far no response.

Something here doesn't seem right...

BTT

Ok....I went to a Gander Mountain last night and looked at a bunch of Liberty safes.  The $699 model (timber?) only had bolts on what I call the strike or latch side of the door.  Tapping on the metal around the bolts it sounded hollow.  The $2000 safe had bolts all around and tapping on the same areas it sounded much heavier/substatial.  I would like to see them with the panels off.  Guess I'll have to go talk to a locksmith who peddles office safes and see what he says.  

I'm not buying the screwdriver story either.  That pair of screwdrivers looks better than most of the ones in my toolbox and I've never tried to pry a safe open with any of them.  Crowbar maybe--if there's space to get it started between the door and side wall.  

Twenty minutes is an eternity to spend prying on a safe during a burglary however.

I dont buy the screw driver story, sorry I dont.

Take a look, as others have said the screw drivers are not bent, heck, I have broke very large screw drivers in 2 at times at work, not by choice, just had to at the time.

Also take a look at the side of the door with the bolts, all of the bolts are bent back in the same direction, I doubt that would happen.

It may be true, but at this time, I aint buying it.

have they tested Champion safes yet?

I do not know about screw drivers but I have been able to open safes for the Navy using the 2 crowbar/metal chisel method.  It took longer than 20 minutes.  More like an hour.

Max

I'll buy the crowbar but not the screwdriver story.

Quoted: Quoted: I'd have to see this done in person before i'm a believer that it only took 20mins to open. Well, I IM'd GARY_631 on Sunday and asked for him to continue adding to this thread or my Zanotti thread, but so far no response.

Sorry for taking so long, I really don't know much about the zanotti safes. I've never seen one in person. The idea behind them looks great. If you are moving around alot. Looks like a great safe. I wouldn't trust it to anyone there with alot of time. But like the above poster posted. Most people are in and out of houses in 5 mins.

As for the safe borken into with the screw drivers. I was given the pictures and was only told what I put in the post. Take it or leave it. Maybe the people getting into the safe had hours to do it. I don't know. Maybe they had other tools there, again I don't know. But eather way, they guy who own the safe lost eveything in it.

I would love to open a safe up on video. I've bugged my boss to let me do it, but he won't, to much money to waste on it, which I can understand that. Even had a now ex liberty rep offer to put me on a timer and video, with a crow bar to see if I could get in. Boss said no tho. As for me buying and opening a safe up on video vs a new rifle or more ammo, well rife and ammo win evey time.

*edit to add*
The guy who gave us the 1st 3 pictures of the C-23 that was borken into with a crow bar. He just register and is waiting for his password to be sent and will post with more details about it.

can you get or have access to photos of the the bolt mechanism? Back to the photos of compromised locking bolts, damn interesting.

Quoted: can you get or have access to photos of the the bolt mechanism? Back to the photos of compromised locking bolts, damn interesting.

I will take some pictures this week of the one we have on the floor with the back door off. Its the same model and year as the 1st set of pictures.

Why did the pictures get taken down?

I tried calling Liberty all day today but after endless hold times I just hung up. I wanted to see what they have to say about the two screw drivers.

I think I am going to go through the PINA of returning my Remington safe and picking up one of the Champions. The Challenger series C25 looks pretty nice and comes with 12 active bolts.

http://www.championsafe.com/products/challenger.html

Quoted: Why did the pictures get taken down?

Boss said take them down, and snice I like my job, they came down

Liberty probly won't have much to say on the screw dirves.
Snice you have your liberty safe still, open the back door panel on it. Should be 6 or so screws to do that. Once open, look at the steel panels on the inside. There should be 3. One at top, one in the middle holding the lock, and one at the bottom. Now look at the door steel that holds the bolts and how it is put togetter. Look at how the bolts are held in place.

Those who think I am lieing, why would I? I make no money off you if you buy a liberty, fort knox, champion, amsec, gardall, cannon, etc. When you have 3 or 4 AR15s a few m-1 grards, etc, thats alot of money to put in a junk safe. I'm just telling you what I know. I don't like the lower end librety, but I don't like most lower end safes anyway. If all you want is somthing to keep the kids out and the drugy smash and gribs, the lower end models are fine for that.

Know what you are buying and get what you want, is what I tell people evey day at my work.

Liberty made some great safes in its early years. My father has a W40 with a 3/16 body with a 3/8" plate door and a P50 with a 1/4" body with a 16ga. inner liner, and a 1/2" plate door. There both wonderfull safes. But they are nothing like the new models, other then they share the name.

Quoted: Quoted: Why did the pictures get taken down? Boss said take them down, and snice I like my job, they came down Liberty probly won't have much to say on the screw dirves. Snice you have your liberty safe still, open the back door panel on it. Should be 6 or so screws to do that. Once open, look at the steel panels on the inside. There should be 3. One at top, one in the middle holding the lock, and one at the bottom. Now look at the door steel that holds the bolts and how it is put togetter. Look at how the bolts are held in place. Those who think I am lieing, why would I? I make no money off you if you buy a liberty, fort knox, champion, amsec, gardall, cannon, etc. When you have 3 or 4 AR15s a few m-1 grards, etc, thats alot of money to put in a junk safe. I'm just telling you what I know. I don't like the lower end librety, but I don't like most lower end safes anyway. If all you want is somthing to keep the kids out and the drugy smash and gribs, the lower end models are fine for that. Know what you are buying and get what you want, is what I tell people evey day at my work. Liberty made some great safes in its early years. My father has a W40 with a 3/16 body with a 3/8" plate door and a P50 with a 1/4" body with a 16ga. inner liner, and a 1/2" plate door. There both wonderfull safes. But they are nothing like the new models, other then they share the name.

Thanks for your IM I sent one back at you.  I have thought about taking the door panel off and having a peak inside, but I believe that will void my safe's warrenty.

Are most gun safes oriented toward fire protection or theft protection? The examples I've seen look more like fire safes. I don't know what brand they were.

OK..Lets see how I can do this..First the important stuff..Any safe from ANY manufacturer and I do mean any.  Is a piece of junk if it does not have bolts on all four sides of the door. Even just ONE on top and bottom will make all the difference. There is ONE exception. That is if it has a RECESSED PLATE STEEL DOOR.  The recessed part so that there is no purchase point for tools. The plate part to defend against the no top or bottom bolts. However you compromise your fire rating in exchange for security. Composite doors by their very nature boost the fire rating but have easy purchase points for tools because they are flush with the front of the safe.

The colonial 23 that was destroyed with two 18" crowbars:
This safe was in an outbuilding. It is believed that the contracting crew working on the house broke into it and they had the time to do it. Anyone of you who has a Liberty safe manufactured AFTER 2001 (you can see the manufacture date on the door edge) will be able to verify that the biggest contributing factor that led to this safe's demise is the sheet metal wedges that are used on the topmost and bottommost bolts to keep the door tight against the doorseal in the event of a fire. SHEET METAL!! Like duct work!! IN A SAFE!! They just crushed right off the bat.  There wasnt even anything left of them.  Now you have about an INCH of play on a door that cant even defend itself with no top or bottom bolts.  Even though IMO the Colonial is just a Gym locker with a really expensive door, it would not have been broken into through the door if it had had top and bottom bolts.  

I will give anyone here a concrete saw and i will take two 18" crowbars and we will go at a Colonial 23. It doesnt even matter when it was made as long as it only has front and rear bolts. I will be in the door before you can cut a hole big enough to get anything out of it. Timber Ridge, Harley Davidson(the small one), John Deere, the Low end Remingtons are all made from the Colonial shell.

I'm told one of you is a Liberty dealer.  If you were during the changeover from hand-made to automation in Q4 2001, Then you cant deny the changes that happened to the door designs of the Lincoln series on down.  Did you even wonder why you were getting Lincoln 50s and Franklin 45s with doors that were sprung and wouldnt close right? The damn things were made of a SINGLE SHEET of 12guage steel stamped in a press, seam-welded on the four corners and then a single belly band of steel was inserted that the lock and boltworks were welded to. the doors could NOT SUPPORT THEIR OWN WEIGHT.  There were people in the warehouses adjusting them with WOODEN BROOM HANDLES. The door was closed at strategic points with the handle wedged in so the steel would bend and the door would close plumb. A lot of this has been addressed and the doors on the big safes have been redesigned to beef them up more but its still not a pretty sight if you ever get to see whats behind the inside panels.

I am known to one person in this group and all this could be verified if I really felt like dealing with whoever owns Libetry safes at the moment. So all you get is conjecture and implication. I will answer any questions put to me honestly and OBJECTIVELY as long as I'm convinced you are not trying to pull a legal ambush. I own a Liberty Residential 12 MFG. 1998, and a Champion Crown 40 MFG. 2001. I owned a Liberty Residential 12 MFG. 2001 and a Lincoln 25 MFG. 2002. I sold the RS12 for $300 and the LX25 for $100 below dealer cost because I wouldn't use it. The differences between the two RS12s were surprising.

Only YOU know what you want and what you want it to do.  In this industry you really do get what you pay for.  For $6000 I would LOVE to own a Fort Knox Yeager series safe. But its SIX freakin thousand dollars. But theres a safe.

Just make sure that what you buy has bolts on all four sides. Unless you have a alarm system. I havent checked latelt but Liberty's Franklin series used to NOT have a bottom bolt.  Dont take back your Timber Ridge if its gonna do what you need it to do. The worst that will happen is that you already found out that its TOO SMALL.