User Panel
Posted: 9/2/2014 4:34:09 PM EDT
The wait is over.
The journey home from the battlefield is a long one. The AN/PEQ-15 (ATPIAL) from Insight Technology, has been faithfully serving U.S. Warfighters as the standard issue aiming laser throughout the Global War on Terror. Seen on almost every U.S. weapon fielded since the mid 2000’s, the ATPIAL has been highly coveted by the commercial market, yet always out of reach due to government restrictions on high power infrared lasers... Until now. Introducing the ATPIAL-C. Forged for the Warrior, Honed in the Crucible of Combat, and Proven by Heroes, the legendary AN/PEQ-15 is now available in a civilian-legal package as the ATPIAL-C. Some history how it came to be. At the 2014 SHOT Show TNVC was approached by Insight to discuss the viability of this product in the commercial market. Both TNVC and L-3/Insight believed it would be very well received by individual civilian and law enforcement personnel. We were asked to be the exclusive launch vehicle for the ATPIAL-C and jumped at the opportunity. Presently, TNVC is the only place to get these! After all these years in combat, TNVC is extremely excited to bring the ATPIAL-C home. The unique aspect of the ATPIAL-C is it’s pulled right off the same military production line as its full power cousin, but with a civilian legal Class1 Infrared Laser Pointer and Illuminator. Other than the power rating, there is no difference between the ATPIAL-C and the ATPIAL. The ATPIAL-C (Advanced Target Pointer/Illuminator Aiming Laser – Commercial) is a multi-function Class1/IIIR Infrared/Visible laser from L-3/Insight Technology. It features an Infrared Laser Pointer (0.7 mW Class1), Visible Laser Pointer (4.6 mW Class 3R Red), and Infrared Laser Illuminator (3 mW Class 3R). Based on the standard issue AN/PEQ-15 (Class IIIb) for the U.S. Warfighter, the ATPIAL-C’s Class1/3R power makes it completely eye-safe and available to the general public. Class1 Infrared Laser Pointer feature a 0.7mW rating which is not restricted by the FDA. They will easily reach out to 450 yards, encompassing most target engagement ranges when paired with a night vision goggle for the civilian and law enforcement professional. Considering that Gen3 Night Vision Goggles have a maximum target identification range of 100-115 yards, the 450 yard range of the ATPIAL-C is perfect. The Visible and Infrared Laser Pointers are slaved so that zeroing one will zero the other in tandem. The Infrared Laser Illuminator is a true laser illuminator system, producing no bright downrange visible signature as seen in infrared LED’s. In order to stay within Class1 guidelines, the Illuminator is lower power, able to reach 150 yards and is non-adjustable. This is perfect for short to medium range engagements. Like the full power ATPIAL, the ATPIAL-C’s Infrared Illuminator can be used to wash out the bloom of the Infrared Laser Pointer at engagement distances. The ATPIAL-C is a low profile laser system that mounts to any standard M1913 Picatinny Rail. Its design allows it to sit lower on the rail than most other lasers, creating a “saddle bag” affect, so as not to impede the shooter’s sight picture when mounted at the 12 o’clock position. Its glass-reinforced high-strength polymer body housing is very robust and impact resistant. The unit features a simple dial selector for changing the output settings on top of the housing. Activation is achieved via the included remote pressure pad or onboard “fire” button. A rear-facing battery compartment makes changing batteries simple and convenient, even when the unit is pushed all the way forward against a standard AR Front Sight Base (by the way: you should never store your expensive night vision and lasers with the batteries installed). Windage and elevation adjustments require a small flat head screw driver and produce positive clicks. The ATPIAL-C is the closest thing an individual can get to the standard issue full power ATPIAL. We are currently accepting pre-orders. L-3 will be delivering the first units to our warehouse mid to late November with the next shipment in mid to late December. Shipping will be first come, first served. Pre Orders must be paid in full. Place your Pre Order before September 15 and get it for only $1,199.00. That’s a $100 savings! After that, the price is $1,299 Get Your ATPIAL-C HERE!!! Manufacturer: L3/ Insight Technology Dimensions: 4.6?(L) x 2.8?(W) x 1.6?(H) Weight: 7.5 oz. w/ Battery Power: One (1) 3V DL123A Battery Battery Life: >6 Hours in Dual High Waterproof: 6 Meters for One Hour Warranty: 1 Year Warranty Infrared Laser Spec: —————————————————- IR Laser Class: Class1 IR Laser Output: 0.7 mW IR Laser Divergence: 0.5 mRad IR Laser Wavelength: 820nm – 850nm IR Laser Range: >450 Yards Visible Laser Spec: —————————————————- Visible Laser Class: IIIR Red Visible Laser Output: 4.6 mW Visible Laser Divergence: 0.5 mRad Visible Laser Wavelength: 605nm – 665nm Visible Laser Range: >25 Meters in Direct Sun IR Illuminator Specs: —————————————————- IR Illuminator Class: IIIR Infrared IR Illuminator Output: 3 mW IR Illuminator Divergence: 105 mRad IR Illuminator Wavelength: 820nm – 850nm IR Illuminator Range: >150 Yards |
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These are the independent testing results, performed by TNVC. The purpose of this testing was to weigh the performance of the ATPIAL C in real life conditions. For the outdoor phases of this testing, the conditions were half-moon, clear skies, visible stars, and visible city lights (on the horizon) approximately ½ mile away. The furthest treeline in this image, is approximately 350 yards away, to give you some depth awareness. OUTDOOR TESTING *All photos posted below are of the ATPIAL C performing. I know the question is going to be asked, "Is the IR illuminator visible?” The answer is, it’s just as visible on the ATPIAL C as it is on the PEQ-15. People talk about how the IR illuminators on the PEQ-15 aren’t visible. Well, I understand what they mean, however, they do put off a very faint visible red hue from the emitter itself. It’s hard to see, unless you are standing DIRECTLY in front of the unit, looking DIRECTLY into the emitter, which I DO NOT RECOMMEND. The faint red dot is hard to see and this is primarily because the emitter is recessed into the housing. The photos below, were taken with my iPhone 5, at a distance of 25 yards directly in front of the PEQ-15 and the ATPIAL C with their respective illuminators on. The top photo is the PEQ-15. Bottom photo is the ATPIAL C. Notice the faint red glow in both photos? Again this is extremely hard to see, and you have to be directly in front of the emitter. Slightly angled to the left, right, above or below, and you won’t be able to see this. I also noticed that I could never really get myself aligned to see the illuminator emission point at a distance beyond about 40 yards, and up until that point, it was extremely hard to see. INDOOR TESTING All of these photos on the indoor test, were taken on the live fire range at Telluric Group’s training facility. This facility is optimized for low light/ no light training and the lighting can be controlled very precisely. The conditions in these photos are – no lights on whatsoever. The only visible light was the glow in the dark tape on the ranges light switch module, and the LED on the coffee machine in the classroom outside of the range, approximately 50 feet away, and on the other side of the bullet proof observation windows looking into the range. It was "can’t see my hand in front of my face” dark. Significant amount of bloom. No more than what is standard in commercial .7 mW laser units. The illuminator did cut down the bloom on the IR laser, however, in the photos, it looks a lot more "bloomy” than it did in real life, due to the camera interpreting the light. I took several photos and couldn’t capture the true cancellation of the laser bloom with the illuminator being used. The built in neutral density filters into the laser covers work exactly as they are intended. Cut the bloom and give a very precise dot. Initially I had concerns that given the fact that these lasers were .7mW and not the 50mW as their restricted counterparts, I thought that the neutral density filters would cut too much of the power of the .7mW laser. I was wrong. They work perfectly. Lets take a closer look at the unit itself. Aesthetically, you cannot tell the two apart. This is because the same internal parts, and the same exact body housings are being used for the ATPIAL C as they are on the PEQ-15. No cheap, knock off internals or sketchy mounts on this system. The ATPIAL C and the PEQ-15 are exactly the same right down to the stickers, except for the mW of the lasers being specified and the ability to adjust the IR illuminator spread. Seeing as how the illuminator’s focus knob is locked and can’t be adjusted, we took some basic measurements of the IR illuminator in use. In this photo above, the red dashed circle is surrounding the immediate IR illuminator spread. The target, is a standard size IPSC target which is 18 inches wide. The illuminator spread is roughly 5.5 IPSC targets wide, which is approximately 8.25 feet. So at 25 yards, you have an illuminator spread of roughly 8.25 feet. With that knowledge, I think it’s safe to assume that at 50 yards, the spread will be approximately 16.5 feet, 75 yards – 24.75 feet, and so on. In my opinion, I think that is absolutely perfect for what is needed in short to medium ranges, which is truly what commercial IR laser units are designed for. In this photo above, the red circles denote the 125 yard area where the IR illuminator is visibly lighting/illuminating. We feel that with these specific light conditions, 125 yards is going to be the max distance you can illuminate a darkened area and identify something. We also feel that 125-150 yards is the max usable distance in the darkest of outdoor conditions, for this IR illuminator. In essence, if a bad guy were hiding in that photo at 125 yards, I could have illuminated him, and determined him friend or foe. In summary, during these several months of extensive testing and evaluating the ATPIAL C, we have concluded several things. -The ATPIAL C performs EXACTLY the same as a PEQ-15 on low power setting. -Given the fact that the majority of Law Enforcement agencies use their PEQ-15’s on the low power setting due to bloom issues, the ATPIAL C is a great alternative for the commercial user, especially those that have transitioned out of active duty, where they were issued PEQ-15’s. -The IR illuminator has a maximum range of 150 yards in the darkest conditions. -Though the IR illuminator doesn’t have an adjustable beam, we think it’s actually perfect for being utilized in short to medium distances. Given the fact that positive ID through a PVS-14 or dual tube system is roughly 150 meters, the IR illuminator on the ATPIAL C fills that role quite nicely. L3/ Insight ATPIAL-C Class1/3R IR LaserIf you guys have any further questions, ask away and we will do our best to answer. We spent a significant amount of time with these units, and they certainly get our stamp of approval. This has been a long time coming, and we are glad we are finally able to bring this to light. |
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L3 must frickin' LOVE you guys -- either that or you're skilled in the Dark Arts!
Just... Plain... AWESOME! I'm surprised and positively impressed by the illuminator. I was concerned that it would be RAPTAR-esque, but it looks MUCH more useful. LDI and Wilcox are in trouble! |
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Holy.
Balls. I'm in. I need to sell something. How many can I get for a kidney? ~Augee |
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Yours, or someone else's? I hear that's how Slug-O lost his. He awoke from his surgery with a thank you card and a TNVC tattoo. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How many can I get for a kidney? ~Augee Yours, or someone else's? I hear that's how Slug-O lost his. He awoke from his surgery with a thank you card and a TNVC tattoo. Either. I'm flexible. ~Augee |
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OMG OMG OMG.
This is so sweet. I wonder if they are SCAR hardened or, if not, if L3 will warranty them for use on a SCAR 17S? Either way, I'm in for at least one. Is it too much to ask for LA-5 adjustment knobs on the next iteration? |
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Just so everyone knows I called it first that they would have a laser based illuminator
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What is the reason for locking the illuminator?
Does the illuminator have a 30 mW hi mode or did they remove hi for both laser & illuminator? |
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OMG OMG OMG. This is so sweet. I wonder if they are SCAR hardened or, if not, if L3 will warranty them for use on a SCAR 17S? Either way, I'm in for at least one. Is it too much to ask for LA-5 adjustment knobs on the next iteration? View Quote These are .50 BMG rated. They are the exact same housings as the standard power versions; taken off the same production line. No problem on a SCAR |
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What is the reason for locking the illuminator? Does the illuminator have a 30 mW hi mode or did they remove hi for both laser & illuminator? View Quote It's locked because it is 3 mW (class 3R) That means it would be too high powered if it was able to be focused down. It is permanently dispersed to remain eye safe and civilian legal |
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It's locked because it is 3 mW (class 3R) That means it would be too high powered if it was able to be focused down. It is permanently dispersed to remain eye safe and civilian legal View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What is the reason for locking the illuminator? Does the illuminator have a 30 mW hi mode or did they remove hi for both laser & illuminator? It's locked because it is 3 mW (class 3R) That means it would be too high powered if it was able to be focused down. It is permanently dispersed to remain eye safe and civilian legal thx |
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The best part about this will be the ability to use real, high power white-lights instead of trying to find compromise dual-spectrum units.
Goodbye rifle-mounted vampires and WMX200s. Hello Furys and Scouts. ETA: Have the IR wars begun? Will Wilcox and LDI adapt these new IR levels for their units? This type of illuminator will really open some doors. I want to have to make the decision between a Class 1 ATPIAL and a Class 1 DBAL-A2. Or even a less expensive DBAL-I2 with IR laser/illuminator (like the original). |
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On a less "giddy schoolgirl" note - just as a curiosity, I wonder how this will affect the pricing of "gray market" AN/PEQ-15s, or if it will just dissolve the market altogether.
Meanwhile - I predict that anyone who was wanting to get into a cheap DBAL or any other Class I IR LAM, and waiting for the "right deal" to come along could have a field day with all the units that will be being dumped to make room (money) for ATPIAL-Cs. I'm just glad I was too poor to buy anything else long enough for this to be released. Quoted:
ETA: Have the IR wars begun? Will Wilcox and LDI adapt these new IR levels for their units? This type of illuminator will really open some doors. I want to have to make the decision between a Class 1 ATPIAL and a Class 1 DBAL-A2. Or even a less expensive DBAL-I2 with IR laser/illuminator (like the original). View Quote This would be great to see play out, though having used the DBAL-A2 (AN/PEQ-15A) and AN/PEQ-2A (not to mention the AN/PAQ-4C), I don't see myself choosing any of the Class I analogues of any other Class III IR LAMs over the ATPIAL - it'd be interesting to see what it does (once again) to pricing, though, and what other developments we might see come down the line from LDI and/or Wilcox, not to mention other potential players in the Class I IR market. And just for the clone-whore in me: Quoted:
Is it too much to ask for LA-5 adjustment knobs on the next iteration? View Quote "Yes, please." ~Augee |
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Also, as we stated the unit is IDENTICAL to the Military version except for the power outputs. This also includes the programmable features, nothing has changed to insure one knows "who's who in the zoo!".
Vic |
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DANGIT!!!!!
right when I order an upper too, son of a! I'll trade you guys a sweet upper for one ETA: guess im gonna have to go donate some plasma |
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ETA: Have the IR wars begun? Will Wilcox and LDI adapt these new IR levels for their units? This type of illuminator will really open some doors. View Quote Unless I am missing something, this is a direct competitor to the DBAL-D2. The DBAL-D2 has lo/hi power and is focusable. As I recall that unit was exclusive to SNG, and this is exclusive to TNVC. So there are a lot of wars going on. |
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I would not say any "wars" going on at all.
TNVC works VERY close with all our OEM's and work with each of their products very in-depth, many times long before they hit the shelves...The APTIAL-C is one of them. We're very proud of the fact each of our major OEM's trust our ability to test and collaborate on many fronts with them. As I've mentioned first and foremost, we're educators and low light/no light trainers first with my staff made up of former LE and SOF personnel who know a great deal on what goes into most NV products on the market. Hope this helps a bit. Vic |
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Unless I am missing something, this is a direct competitor to the DBAL-D2. The DBAL-D2 has lo/hi power and is focusable. As I recall that unit was exclusive to SNG, and this is exclusive to TNVC. So there are a lot of wars going on. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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ETA: Have the IR wars begun? Will Wilcox and LDI adapt these new IR levels for their units? This type of illuminator will really open some doors. Unless I am missing something, this is a direct competitor to the DBAL-D2. The DBAL-D2 has lo/hi power and is focusable. As I recall that unit was exclusive to SNG, and this is exclusive to TNVC. So there are a lot of wars going on. You're missing the fact that the D2 is the size of a volkswagon, has an LED based illuminator, and a 1 hour run-time. A comparable unit would be a DBAL-A2 with a diffused 3mw illuminator. |
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You're missing the fact that the D2 is the size of a volkswagon, has an LED based illuminator, and a 1 hour run-time. A comparable unit would be a DBAL-A2 with a diffused 3mw illuminator. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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ETA: Have the IR wars begun? Will Wilcox and LDI adapt these new IR levels for their units? This type of illuminator will really open some doors. Unless I am missing something, this is a direct competitor to the DBAL-D2. The DBAL-D2 has lo/hi power and is focusable. As I recall that unit was exclusive to SNG, and this is exclusive to TNVC. So there are a lot of wars going on. You're missing the fact that the D2 is the size of a volkswagon, has an LED based illuminator, and a 1 hour run-time. A comparable unit would be a DBAL-A2 with a diffused 3mw illuminator. I am not aware of a Class I DBAL-A2. Link? |
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I am not aware of a Class I DBAL-A2. Link? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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ETA: Have the IR wars begun? Will Wilcox and LDI adapt these new IR levels for their units? This type of illuminator will really open some doors. Unless I am missing something, this is a direct competitor to the DBAL-D2. The DBAL-D2 has lo/hi power and is focusable. As I recall that unit was exclusive to SNG, and this is exclusive to TNVC. So there are a lot of wars going on. You're missing the fact that the D2 is the size of a volkswagon, has an LED based illuminator, and a 1 hour run-time. A comparable unit would be a DBAL-A2 with a diffused 3mw illuminator. I am not aware of a Class I DBAL-A2. Link? Doesn't exist. That's kind of the point I'm trying to make. I'm positing that a viable laser-based IR iluminator is a game changer and the D2 is not an apt comparison or direct competitor. The hog-hunters will stick with the D2s for the illuminator range. Most everyone else will choose the ATPIAL-C. That said, the ATPIAL-C is on my to-buy list. |
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!!!!!!!!!!!
As previously stated, I need to sell something now! Never having used or seen a real 15 in person, how does this compare size wise to the DBAL I2? |
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Question for the TNVC folks....
Performance seems consistent with a PEQ-2A on DUAL LO; please confirm. Thank you. |
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The I2 has only visible and IR pointers. The APTIAL-C also has a IR Laser Illuminator. Vic View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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how does this compare to a dbal-i2? The I2 has only visible and IR pointers. The APTIAL-C also has a IR Laser Illuminator. Vic Sry, meant size wise |
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This goes without saying, the units have a full 1 year warranty and IF something may happen to the unit during or after the warranty period, your unit will NOT become an expensive paper weight, as we see on the grey market with their military counterparts that can never be repaired nor returned to an un-qualified entity. In the ATPIAL-C case, these units are civilian legal own, buy and sell if need be.
Edit, Of course ITAR is in FULL FORCE on the APTIAL-C. Vic |
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The best part about this will be the ability to use real, high power white-lights instead of trying to find compromise dual-spectrum units. Goodbye rifle-mounted vampires and WMX200s. Hello Furys and Scouts. View Quote Not sure if the same application will translate to the ATPIAL-C, however I personally still find benefit in using a Vampire head with the full powered PEQ-15; Keeping the illumination set for long range and then using the IR light for anything up close is much faster and easier than trying to manually refocus or engage the diffuser (which both suck for close range anyhow). |
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It says the lasers are slaved. Why the two sets of laser adjustments? Am I missing something?
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It's locked because it is 3 mW (class 3R) That means it would be too high powered if it was able to be focused down. It is permanently dispersed to remain eye safe and civilian legal View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What is the reason for locking the illuminator? Does the illuminator have a 30 mW hi mode or did they remove hi for both laser & illuminator? It's locked because it is 3 mW (class 3R) That means it would be too high powered if it was able to be focused down. It is permanently dispersed to remain eye safe and civilian legal Laughing at this as people told me dispersing the hi powered lasers for an illuminator would still not pass muster with the FDA. Everything I thought that could be done according to the FDA regs is coming true but I was just to dumb to take it up back in the late 90's. Oh how I would have been a wealthy man today |
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Quoted: IR and VIS are slaved, second set of wind/elevation adjustments are for the illuminator. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: It says the lasers are slaved. Why the two sets of laser adjustments? Am I missing something? IR and VIS are slaved, second set of wind/elevation adjustments are for the illuminator. |
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Holy Sh*t.
In. Order placed. Will go great on my ST Compressor with a HSP / Fury. Nice work Vic, Chip, and crew. |
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Vic, et al,
How would you say the "C" compares to the resticted unit on LOW power at the SAME illumination spread -- i.e. if I open up my .MIL ATPIAL to the same illuminator beam diameter on LOW, will that be similar to the "C" or will the C still be lower output? The .MIL unit on low is nice, but not all that bright past 100-200 yards. |
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Well, there goes another $1200.
Its going to be a long wait until mid November! Thanks Vic and the rest of the TNVC crew for making this possible! |
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Everyone in the Sopmod clone thread just jizzed themselves. Super excited and I'm glad I waited. Initially didn't L3 change the housing? I'm glad they stuck with the same housing after all.
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Vic said in the GD thread that the illuminator is staked and that it cannot be jail broken.
So if the IR illuminator is open at a given # of degrees and staked making it eye safe why could they not allow it to be opened up as wide as possible which obviously would still keep it eye safe and than be able to be zoomed to the staked point? Would this not have helped with closer range targets or indoors. |
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Vic said in the GD thread that the illuminator is staked and that it cannot be jail broken. So if the IR illuminator is open at a given # of degrees and staked making it eye safe why could they not allow it to be opened up as wide as possible which obviously would still keep it eye safe and than be able to be zoomed to the staked point? Would this not have helped with closer range targets or indoors. View Quote Probably because some enterprising DIY'er would hack it and publish a mod that will allow users to tighten the beam to non-eyesafe diameters. |
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