So is this a fast trip to prison?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So is this a fast trip to prison?

Posted: 9/23/2009 3:51:52 PM EDT

I came across this on Sturmgewehr, and it just looks like a trip to prison (not to mention more than a 50% model)... what say the hive?

From the original ad:

NFA Market Board

WTS 50% Lightning Link Template $99.00 pic

Posted By: Marco D in Reading/Pa <[email protected]> (71.175.194.76)
Date: 9/16/09 15:46

AR-15 Auto Connector, Lightening Link, 50% template, made from spring steel per design and made to exact measurements as in the design. Posession of this template is not a violation of section 5845 B chapter 53 title 26, so anyone can LEGALLY OWN this 50% template. Once complete it is considered a posession of a automatic machine gun in violation of section 5845 B chapter 53 title 26. It must be completed by a SOT 07 manufacture to BATF requirements. This is for information purposes only and ALL NFA RULES APPLY! Free Shipping!

*Note picture is for reference only, I only have templates and not finished product, so please dont ask for them. Thanks

Posted: 9/23/2009 3:56:21 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I came across this on Sturmgewehr, and it just looks like a trip to prison (not to mention more than a 50% model)... what say the hive?

No - it is a cut piece of sheetmetal, which is not functional as a MG or lightning link.

You'd need to be a MG manufacturer to legally "build" one (or punch out and assemble).

Virtually no market for these though, since MG manufacturers can just as easily make registered receivers.

Posted: 9/23/2009 4:30:54 PM EDT

[#2]

You are misreading the photo.

On the left is a complete LL. That is not what he is selling –– instead, what he sells is on the right side of the photo. It is a solid piece of metal with the "template" marked in white on the surface. There are zero cuts in it, and AFAIK, you can legally sell a solid piece of metal no matter what is marked on it. (Yes, the way the photo was done, the "white" parts look like the cuts have already been made, but instead it is only paint on the surface.)

Just don't cut where the white markings are and you'll be legal.

Posted: 9/23/2009 4:52:07 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
You are misreading the photo.

On the left is a complete LL. That is not what he is selling –– instead, what he sells is on the right side of the photo. It is a solid piece of metal with the "template" marked in white on the surface. There are zero cuts in it, and AFAIK, you can legally sell a solid piece of metal no matter what is marked on it. (Yes, the way the photo was done, the "white" parts look like the cuts have already been made, but instead it is only paint on the surface.)

Just don't cut where the white markings are and you'll be legal.

Sure looks like it's mostly cutout to me. If it was just a template drawing on the steel, why are there gaps in the drawing that look like metal supporting the section that needs to be cutout? Also, at the top of the lines, it looks like there's a lighting contrast where the two planes of metal intersect. Could be wrong, but it looks like it's mostly cut out to me. Don't know what the market would be for this, because what law enforcement agency or other agency legally able to own a MG would want a lightning link instead of just an auto lower.

Posted: 9/23/2009 5:05:11 PM EDT

[#4]

for a manufacturer.....No

Posted: 9/23/2009 5:31:42 PM EDT

[#5]

Ah ha... I see what you mean tony_k. I thought they had already cut it, but I see now it's paint. I knew it wasn't the one on the left - I thought the one on the right had already been cut through, and *that* seemed like a bad idea waiting to happen.

So basically, this dude got his hands on one of the online templates, scrap, and model paint and is trying to turn a 1000% percent profit? If that's the case, that's pretty slick.

Posted: 9/23/2009 5:45:33 PM EDT

[#6]

I believe it is a laser-cut blank.

Notice on the assembled one (on the left) there's a little booger of extra metal where the disconnector would engage - exactly where it is on the template. It would be virtually impossible to file the outline and leave that booger where it is.

Posted: 9/23/2009 5:51:40 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Ah ha... I see what you mean tony_k. I thought they had already cut it, but I see now it's paint. I knew it wasn't the one on the left - I thought the one on the right had already been cut through, and *that* seemed like a bad idea waiting to happen.

So basically, this dude got his hands on one of the online templates, scrap, and model paint and is trying to turn a 1000% percent profit? If that's the case, that's pretty slick.

I'm going by the definition of "template" that I'm familiar with –– a stencil, pattern or overlay. From looking at the photo, while at first glance it seems to be cut out, the wording of the ad seems to indicate it is just a guide painted onto the metal.

If my interpretation is wrong, and the metal is instead cut out where there is "white" showing, then I'd go with you –– it's way beyond 80% complete and thus is an unregistered MG. (It's not like there is any shortage of unregistered components for sale on the internet –– some as honey traps, some just waiting for ATF to investigate).

There is no shortage of LL templates out there. Read books or scan the internet (do not post links here –– that's against board rules). But if someone wants a template, you can find 'em way cheaper than $99.

Posted: 9/23/2009 6:03:42 PM EDT

[#8]

Thanks for the info, tony_k. I was trying to mull this over in my head how it was legal vs. honey pot (like infamous Shotgun News "Drop in Auto Safety Sear" or whatever it's called now). I wouldn't do anything crazy like post links/info of verboten items, I'll leave that to Paladin Press peddling their wares.

Posted: 9/23/2009 6:16:43 PM EDT

[#9]

If it's painted on, it's way overpriced.

If it's mostly cut out, I wouldn't touch it!

Posted: 9/23/2009 6:22:31 PM EDT

[#10]

It sure looks cut out to me...look at the edges closely at the tops of the cutouts, you can see and edge. Would be neat to have if legal

Posted: 9/23/2009 6:32:15 PM EDT

[#11]

I wouldn't buy ANYTHING from someone who misspells the name of the thing he's selling. And when he has to go so far out of his way to explain how it's not illegal, that just makes it a bit more "stay away!" for me.

My view of the picture is the same as tony_k's; it's white paint on the chunk of sheet metal. Note that there are no shadows in the white areas, while the rest of the picture shows distinct shadows.

Posted: 9/23/2009 6:47:38 PM EDT

[#12]

I'd say he wants you to think it's cut out and all you have to do is snap it with some pliers and presto! LL! Marketing, ya know?

Posted: 9/24/2009 1:17:26 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

It sure looks cut out to me...look at the edges closely at the tops of the cutouts, you can see and edge. Would be neat to have if legal

It does look like there is some depth to the "lines". I'd agree it's cut out.

Posted: 9/24/2009 5:00:09 AM EDT

[#14]

IMHO its cut out already. Look at the edge right above the top of the connector (not the paddle). Not only can you see a bit of reflection from the vertical surface where the cut was made, but you can see vertical striations in the material indicating a laser or plasma cutter was used.

Posted: 9/24/2009 5:02:35 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
IMHO its cut out already. Look at the edge right above the top of the connector (not the paddle). Not only can you see a bit of reflection from the vertical surface where the cut was made, but you can see vertical striations in the material indicating a laser or plasma cutter was used.

I've looked more closely and now I have to agree. Very bad or very tricky lighting in this picture...

Posted: 9/24/2009 2:10:59 PM EDT

[#16]

Per the seller - it's cut out.

YMMV

Posted: 9/24/2009 4:27:40 PM EDT

[#17]

So we have determined its cut out, what's the consensus on it being legal or not? Would be fun to have if legal

Posted: 9/24/2009 4:45:16 PM EDT

[#18]

I can just see it now, laser engraved, Punch out in case SHTF!
I wouldn't go near it, just a wast of a battle load of ammo IMHO, well placed shots for me should do the trick.

Posted: 9/24/2009 4:46:11 PM EDT

[#19]

I wouldn't want that cut-out in the house with all my AR's. With the way the ATF is these days, you've pretty much got a full blown machine gun in your hands. I'd bet they'd prosecute you in no time if they knew you had that in your posession. Even if it's determined legal by a judge/jury, you're still gonna go bankrupt trying to prove it.

Posted: 9/25/2009 1:59:55 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
So we have determined its cut out, what's the consensus on it being legal or not? Would be fun to have if legal

Run away as fast as you can.

Kharn

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So is this a fast trip to prison?

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