Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 15
Posted: 10/30/2008 3:00:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Stan_TheGunNut]
NOTE:  Much of what is written here will likely change drastically when 41P takes effect, which I believe is in early July, 2016.  This includes requirements for photographs and fingerprints for trustees.

Revised 3/3/16 to provide ATF address (revision dated 2014) upon request.  I have not gone through the rest of the thread to verify accuracy in some time.  
Revised 10/17/09 to provide hot links.

I have seen a lot of posts about how to "Form 1" a SBR or silencer. This is how you do it....at least this is my quick and dirty method, which has worked for me. I had originally written this using an old form and not the current revision (revision dated September 2007 on the bottom of the form), so if anyone notices errors or something that is outright wrong, please let me know so I can fix it. I did do a quick edit so it should be up to date for the current revision. I have edited the original version of this post to include some additional information based on questions asked in this thread.  If you're registering your first Form 1 NFA item, reading the entire thread will likely be of help and should answer most of the common questions.  

Feedback to improve this writeup is appreciated.

Disclaimer: I am not an authority on this subject. If you have questions, I suggest you contact an attorney or the ATF directly with your questions.  Here is the website of a lawyer who apparently specializes is NFA trusts...I have no affiliation, but thought I'd point it out.  There are also some examples of how to complete the paperwork:

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1.html

Before we get started, here are a couple of "definitions" and a short Q&A:

"Form 1" refers to the ATF application to make and register a firearm, specifically one that requires registration per the National Firearms Act.  This is the form you would fill out and submit to the ATF if you are "making" an NFA item.  In many cases, all you're really doing is registering a receiver made by a firearms manufacturer with the ATF and not really 'making' anything at all, but rather assembling.  This thread is written assuming you're registering an AR15 lower receiver as a SBR.  Other guns or silencers would follow the process though.    

"Form 4" is the ATF form used when a registered item is transferred, such as a silencer, SBR, machine gun, etc. from an individual or dealer to an individual.  This is the form used when you buy a NFA item from someone else, as opposed to making and registering something.  A Form 4 transfer does not require any engraving since the item has already been engraved with the manufacturers information.  

Both of the above forms require a $200 tax to be paid.  

Q1:  If I get a class 3 license, can the ATF come to my house anytime?  
A1:  First off, you're not getting a "Class 3 License".  You're registering a rifle or silencer, paying a tax and receiving your tax stamp, and can therefore legally have it in your possession.  The $200 tax is required for EACH NFA item that you have.  Finally, simply owning NFA toys does not give the ATF carte blanche to come into your home unannounced.  To do so, they must have probable cause that you're breaking the law and have a warrant....just like the regular cops.  Some people must be getting confused in that the ATF does periodically audit licensed dealers and manufacturers during normal business hours.  There is a difference in that and them coming to the home of a private citizen.  

Q2:  What is a Trust?  
A2:  For those who do not know what a trust is, it’s simply a legal entity that is able to own property, kinda like a corporation, and is used for estate planning. Quicken Willmaker, available from amazon.com for about $35 is an easy way to set one up. You may also desire to consult an attorney, which will cost you more but may provide you more peace of mind. Most folks suggest having one trust dedicated to NFA items, and another trust for other property that you might want to be owned by a trust. A trust may be the only way for some to obtain NFA toys since some Chief Law Enforcement Officers (CLEO’s) refuse to sign the application. With a trust, the CLEO signature, fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required. These last items are required if you register the NFA item as an individual. I suggest that if your CLEO will sign your paperwork, to register the NFA item that way. While initially, more is involved in obtaining NFA as an individual, in the long run it may be simpler.

How to Form 1 a SBR (note that a silencer would follow a similar process):

1) Determine what method you're going to use to Form 1 your SBR or silencer, ie. Individual, Corporation, or Trust. This will determine to a certain degree what is engraved on your NFA item. A phone call or visit to your Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) to make sure he'll sign the Form 1 is advisable.  My CLEO found this to be an unusual request, but after sitting down with me for 5 minutes and talking a bit, did sign it.  Your Sheriff, Chief of Police, District Attorney, and possibly others normally qualify as the CLEO.  If he refuses to sign, you're most likely going the trust route if you're set on obtaining NFA stuff.  I suggest going the Individual route if your CLEO will sign your paperwork.  If you decide to use the trust method, now is the time to find a lawyer or purchase Quicken Willmaker and set up your trust.  This should be the first step because it will determine what will be engraved on your NFA item.  If you set up a trust, I would use a short name since the ATF is now requiring the entire trust name be engraved.

2) Obtain lower receiver and send it off to have it engraved. Any number of places can do the engraving, but it must meet certain requirements. Someone suggested to me that it's better to do the engraving first in case the lower is damaged or lost in the mail. This way you are not out your $200 tax stamp on a damaged/lost receiver. Often the engraving is done on the front or side of the magwell,   but the barrel and other locations may also be acceptable.  Orion Arms has some examples of engraving on their website:

Orion Arms

Engraving of the NFA item with your name and location as maker is required if registering the item via a Form 1 since it makes you the original manufactuer.  It's my understanding that the ATF now requires the entire name as it appears on the Form 1 to be engraved. So it might benefit you to have a short Trust or Corporate name if you go that route.  For example, your engraving could look something like one of the following examples:

Mickey Mouse, Disney World, FL (as an individual)
Mickey Mouse Trust, Disney World, FL (if using a trust)
M. Mouse, Disney World, FL
M. Mouse Trust, Disney World, FL

Someone pointed out to me that RLT (Revocable Living Trust) is not an abbreviation that is accepted by the ATF, and that the word "Trust" should be used in lieu of RLT. For example:
M. Mouse Trust and not M. Mouse RLT.  I have seen the RLT used, so I'm unsure what to say here. If in doubt, you can always call the ATF and ask.  Again, what is engraved on the NFA item should match what you name your trust, so if you use an initial in your trust name, that's how your NFA item should be engraved.  I seem to recall someone saying that they named their trust "In God We" and had "In God We Trust" engraved.  I wasn't that original, but I like the idea.

One common question people have is that if they move, do they need to have the item re-engraved.  The answer is no.  The engraving only needs to be done once, and that's when the NFA item is 'made'.  Should you move, you'll need to notify the ATF, but you will not need to have your NFA items engravings changed.  The place of manufacture is your city and state when the item was originally made and registered with the ATF....it only has to be engraved once.

3) Once you have the lower receiver back in your possession with the proper engravings, complete the Form 1 Application. Note that you will need the receiver in hand prior to filling out the paperwork since you need to know the serial number on the receiver to complete the paperwork.  This is not true if you are physically making a silencer for example, as opposed to merely assembling a SBR.  In the case where you actually manufacture a silencer, you would assign a unique serial number, model number, etc.  Form 1 applications are available from the ATF here:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/5000.htm#general

and the Form 1 in a format that you can type in your information and print it out from the above website:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf
ATF Form 1 in fillable PDF:  Form 1

Fill out the form as completely as you can and make sure everything is accurate. Some of it is obvious and I won’t go into great detail about each box. Here is how I filled mine out:

a. Item 1, check the tax paid box.

b. Item 2, if registering the item via a trust or a corporation, check the "Corporation or Other Business Entity" box. Otherwise, you’re most likely an individual.

c. I left 3a blank (this box would be used for a corporation).
In box 3b, put your name and address, or the name of your trust and the address. It should look something like:
Mickey Mouse Trust
123 Magic Kingdom Rd.
Walt Disney World, FL 12345

3c, 3d, and 3e are self explanatory.

d.  Section 4:

Box 4a, the name & location as inscribed on the gun of the original manufacturer of the gun, such as Colt, LMT, Bushmaster….whomever.  My latest one was:  Anvil Arms, Lakeland, FL.

4b, describe what your making…in this example, it’s a short barreled rifle. I abbreviated and stated “Short Bbl Rifle”.

4c: Caliber…what is the primary caliber. You must pick something....I put 5.56 mm.  In the past, people have been able to put "Multi" or something to that effect, and if you tried it now, you still might get approved.  My understanding is the ATF is now requiring you to be more specific.  Should you decide to permanently change the caliber at a later time, you may do so by notifying the ATF in writing.  You may temporarily alter the caliber provided you can restore it to the original configuration (meaning you can put a 22 conversion on your 5.56 SBR for a cheap range trip), but you should still keep the 5.56 upper.  

4d: I have used AR-15 as the model and been approved. If you have an LMT, "Defender 2000" might also be acceptable. With the "fillalbe pdf" available on the ATF website, the range is long enough to put something like "Defender 2000; AR-15" To me, this would be the most correct way of completing this box since it does provide the specific model and the general type of rifle. Edit:  Do NOT put "Defender 2000; AR-15" because the ATF will return the Form 1 to you to correct.  Only ONE model should be specified.  

Edit:  The model listed in this box should be the same as what is engraved on the original lower.  In the past I had been approved for using the generic "AR-15" but was recently forced to correct a Form 1 for a SBR so that the model was as engraved on the lower.

4e: State the barrel length in inches.  Again, choose your barrel length and complete the form.  It can also be temporarily changed provided you can restore the original configuration.  Should you desire to permanently change the barrel length, you can notify the ATF in writing of the change.

4f: State the overall length in inches.  Obviously this will depend on barrel length and the type of stock you have.  The measurement is made with the collapsible stock fully extended.

4g: State the serial number of the weapon. You will not have a new serial number if you SBR an existing gun…you simply use what’s already on it. If you are truely manufacturing something, such as a silencer, then you will need to assign a unique serial number. This can be as simple as Mickey Mouse, Model A, Serial Number 1.

4h: I have always left this one blank, but you can put whatever you had inscribed onto your lower here as an additional description. You may also wish to list other calibers and barrel lengths that you plan on using with the SBR.  As an alternative to listing each barrel length and caliber in this box, attaching a letter to the form to notify the ATF of your intentions would also be okay.  That said, you are not required to notify the ATF of temporary changes of this nature.

4i: I stated, “To enhance collection and all lawful purposes.”  I have read stories of people putting humorous reasons, such as "To fight off the zombie hordes", and being approved.  Again, I'm not that original nor would I recommend this.  

4j: is likely No.

Items 5 and 6, I left blank. I’m neither an FFL nor a business owner.  If you are obtaining your NFA item as an individual and you have a C&R FFL, I'd probably go ahead and provide my FFL number.  Who knows, it may speed up the process?  If you're using the trust route, do not provide your C&R FFL number.  To my knowledge, the ATF does not issue FFL's to trusts, so this would be like having two entities trying to register the NFA item, and it would likely be kicked back.  

Items 7 and 8, sign your complete name in line 7 (I suggest waiting to sign until you make sure the form is accurate, and to wait until after you’ve made some blank copies). If using a trust, print “grantor” after your signature.  Type your name in box 8 and again, if using a trust, type "grantor" after your name.

Item 9, put in the date.

Items 10 and 11, Check No in each box (but answer honestly).

4) If you went the trust route, you’re pretty much done with this form. Otherwise you’ll need to complete items 12 and 13. This includes having your picture made (you'll need two passport type photos) and getting the CLEO signature. The CLEO can be the Chief of Police, Sheriff, DA, etc. While you’re at the police dept, go ahead and get your fingerprints taken. Again, you’ll need two complete sets. My experience is that there are certain days the police like to do fingerprints, so find out what day that is. Also, it’s usually good to at least call ahead and make sure your CLEO will sign the form. If you live in the city limits and the Chief of Police won’t sign the form, you might be able to get the County Sheriff to sign it, or vice/versa.
That's pretty much it for completing the Form 1, but you're not quite done yet.

5). The ATF requires that double sided paperwork be submitted. There are a couple of ways to do this. The first is to print one page, then when the ink dries, turn the paper over and let your printer print on the other side. You could also do what I did and take the forms to work, put them on the photocopier, and let it copy them and print them front and back. To me, this was the easier option. Also, any copy shop should be able to make double sided copies.  Note that all forms should have original signatures, so after you print out your Form 1, make multiple copies, then obtain signatures.  

6) You will also be required to fill out a Certification of Compliance (ATF Form 5330.20), available at the same website provided earlier. Both the Form 1 and the Form 5330.20 will need to be completed in duplicate for each firearm you are submitting paperwork for. If you are using a trust, you will also need to include a certified true copy of the declaration of trust and Schedule A. In the past you could get by with just a “certification of trust” but it’s my understanding that a complete copy of the declaration of trust is now required. Be sure to send a “Certified True Copy” of the trust, which is a notarized COPY. Do NOT send the original trust document since it will not be returned to you. You should keep the original in a safe location, such as gun safe or safe deposit box. My SBR to be was already owned by my trust before I sent in the Form 1 paperwork. If it’s not owned by the trust when you send it in, be certain to show ownership of the item in the trust after you get the ATF approval.

7) Once you have all of this stuff done, write a check in the amount of $200 payable to the Department of Justice, and attach your form 1’s, form 5330.20’s, fingerprint cards, pictures, and copies of your trust as applicable.  The government will also accept Post Office Money Orders, but I prefer to write a check. You can tell when they cash it (be sure to write the SN of the NFA item on the check), which at least lets you know they received your application. I personally have experienced one transfer where the check was cashed, but the form 4 had to be submitted three times due to the ATF losing the application. I typically include a cover letter with my applications, asking that the ATF examiner contact me if they have any questions or need additional information. Be sure to include your phone number(s).

8) Now mail the required documents to:

NFA Branch
BATFE
PO Box 530298
Atlanta, GA  30353-0298

The address is also printed on the top of the Form 1.  

9) Begin waiting….patience is a virtue with NFA items. A three month wait is typical, though it can be faster or take longer. You can call the ATF to check on the status of your application. Before calling, make sure the check you sent has cleared the bank. Your NFA item will not be in the system prior to your check clearing. There is also no need to call every day, it will not speed up the process. Once your check has cleared the bank, I suggest waiting one month, and then call once every couple of weeks to verify that your NFA item is in the system, and to find out the status of the item.  There are generally three stages of getting an item approved.  The first is the ATF doesn't have anything in their system, and they won't till well after your check is cashed.  The second stage is "Pending", which means the item is in the system and has been assigned to an examiner.  The final stage is "Approved" which is what you're waiting for.  

The phone number to the ATF NFA branch is 304-616-4500.  When you call, they'll ask you for the serial number of the item you're inquiring about, so have it available.  

10) Hurrah!!! You’ve been approved, have the Form 1 and stamp in your possession, and can now assemble your SBR or silencer.


Lastly, you can click here for all the forms you'll ever need for NFA stuff that are available in a pdf format that you can fill in and print.  This includes the paperwork to take a SBR out of state.  The link is to the ATF website so all the forms should be current.  The Form 1, Form 4, and others are near the middle of the page.
ATF Forms


Link Posted: 9/3/2013 2:57:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By midwestoffroad:
2  two sided copies if your form1
COC form
Schedule if assets  sheet
5 pages  of ny trust
Check to batfe

And I mail. Mind in a flat rate priorty mail envelope  $5.20 so I can track it.

My question is on the schedule A.  What do you. list as form of ownership

Joint,sole,joint tendency in common,tangible ect
View Quote


I took this as make a check out to BATFE or does it have to be made out to the Department of Justice. I know its on the form just wanted to clarify .


Link Posted: 9/3/2013 3:25:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 9/4/2013 8:34:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Stupid question and it's probably been answered before, but I can't find it:

I have an LRB lower I was to Form 1.  For Block 4 (this is using eforms, BTW), do I put "LRB Arms," or "JV Machine Co?"  Both manufacturers are on the lower and both are in the database.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/4/2013 9:43:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWODaddy:
Stupid question and it's probably been answered before, but I can't find it:

I have an LRB lower I was to Form 1.  For Block 4 (this is using eforms, BTW), do I put "LRB Arms," or "JV Machine Co?"  Both manufacturers are on the lower and both are in the database.

Thanks.
View Quote


JV Machine Co would be my guess.  Sounds like LRB didn't get a variance approved but decided to take the quicker and easier way out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2013 10:19:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshAston:


JV Machine Co would be my guess.  Sounds like LRB didn't get a variance approved but decided to take the quicker and easier way out.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By SWODaddy:
Stupid question and it's probably been answered before, but I can't find it:

I have an LRB lower I was to Form 1.  For Block 4 (this is using eforms, BTW), do I put "LRB Arms," or "JV Machine Co?"  Both manufacturers are on the lower and both are in the database.

Thanks.


JV Machine Co would be my guess.  Sounds like LRB didn't get a variance approved but decided to take the quicker and easier way out.


Thanks, that's what I was guessing as well.
Link Posted: 9/14/2013 2:30:04 PM EDT
[#6]
So, have the new trust rules taken effect or can I still rush a trust through and get 'er done? I can get a LEO signature, but need a trust anyway, and it's a PITA to get the signature time-wise. Stupid, and all for 2.5" of barrel length. Tempted to leave it a pistol.
Link Posted: 9/17/2013 11:02:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Morg308:
So, have the new trust rules taken effect or can I still rush a trust through and get 'er done? I can get a LEO signature, but need a trust anyway, and it's a PITA to get the signature time-wise. Stupid, and all for 2.5" of barrel length. Tempted to leave it a pistol.
View Quote



I'm wondering the same thing
Link Posted: 9/18/2013 11:57:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dayphotog:



I'm wondering the same thing
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dayphotog:
Originally Posted By Morg308:
So, have the new trust rules taken effect or can I still rush a trust through and get 'er done? I can get a LEO signature, but need a trust anyway, and it's a PITA to get the signature time-wise. Stupid, and all for 2.5" of barrel length. Tempted to leave it a pistol.



I'm wondering the same thing


New rules have not taken effect yet.
Link Posted: 9/23/2013 12:37:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Trying to do a Form 1 on Eforms.  My town is split between two counties, my address is within the smaller part in the second county.  Eforms auto-fills the county with the other, larger part of my town.

Any way to override or add a note later that will make it okay?  Or should I stick with the paper form?
Link Posted: 9/29/2013 10:39:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:

Either is fine -- they cash it just as fast.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By mayor_quimby:
Originally Posted By midwestoffroad:
2  two sided copies if your form1
COC form
Schedule if assets  sheet
5 pages  of ny trust
Check to batfe

And I mail. Mind in a flat rate priorty mail envelope  $5.20 so I can track it.

My question is on the schedule A.  What do you. list as form of ownership

Joint,sole,joint tendency in common,tangible ect


I took this as make a check out to BATFE or does it have to be made out to the Department of Justice. I know its on the form just wanted to clarify .



Either is fine -- they cash it just as fast.

Just FYI I made mine out to Dept of Treasury and it got kicked.
Must be BATF on the paperwork.
I have a pic somewhere if you need.
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 4:13:05 PM EDT
[#11]
So, i need to have the Cleo sign twice if I am just doing one tax stamp, right? Two total Form 1's have to be sent in?

Also, for the Fingerprint cards, can I print them off of the website, or do i need the actual cards that they would send to me?  

I am a NFA newbie, and trying to figure out that stuff before the NFA opens abck up so I can have everything ready to go
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 5:15:51 PM EDT
[#12]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By derek1387:


So, i need to have the Cleo sign twice if I am just doing one tax stamp, right? Two total Form 1's have to be sent in?



Also, for the Fingerprint cards, can I print them off of the website, or do i need the actual cards that they would send to me?  



I am a NFA newbie, and trying to figure out that stuff before the NFA opens abck up so I can have everything ready to go
View Quote
Correct on the first part.  LEO will need to sign TWO Form 1's as they require paperwork in duplicate.  Most LEO's will know to sign both.

 



Ideally you will contact the BATFE to order THEIR fingerprint cards which are the blue lined ones with their info stamped on it.  Most LE agencies use the same but it will have their own info stamped on it and you can't send this.  Either the BATFE one sent to you from the BATFE or a blank one that they can then stamp with their own info once it arrives are the best bet.  I have also heard some will had write in the BATFE's info but I would prefer letting them stamp it since I was told this is what they prefer.  Either way it's not just something you can print out at home are they are a certain size, shape & printed on a certain card stock that's thicker than paper.  It's a very specific document that you need to attain to include.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 10:48:04 PM EDT
[#13]
OK. I ordered the documents on line... hopefully they still send them out while the government is shut down.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 1:10:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Hey Stan,
Have you, or anyone else that you know of, here or on another site, done any update on this guide to the ATF Form 1.  I think your post is excellent and from what I get from reading your 2009 "update" it's basically still pretty much current.  The only question that I have is on line 4a and 4c, e, f.    I have been told by a couple of guys that my name, as manufacturer should now go in line 4a and that "multi" should go in 4c.   But others have said just the opposite.   Line 4a should be (in my case) the name of whoever manufactured the lower receiver and in 4c, e, f,  I should give a list of whatever possible combos could ever be used on that lower..re: 5.56mm. 9mm. .300blk, etc and then list all the barrel lengths that could be used.  Some have said use an attachment, others say use line 4h.

To me, your instructions which are mostly common sense along with the actual ATF instructions, are what most likely would apply.  But as long as it takes even if filled out 100% correct I don't want to have to go through having it sent back disapproved due to my own errors in completion of the form.

If you are still around and if you know the current correct info on this I'd appreciate any type of answers you may provide.   I'm very new here, again, and am still trying to navigate the site.

Thanks much,
Deadeye95
Van
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 1:22:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Original manufacturer of the Title I firearm goes in 4a.  The rest of field 4 needs to be filled in with the initial configuration you'll be building.  Don't put "multi" or list multiple options.  Your form will get kicked back for errors.  4h is for additional markings on the firearm, leave it blank unless you're using an imported firearm.  In that case put the Importer's info there.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks, Josh............Appreciate it.

I'm going to my CLEO tomorrow a.m. and in my case, it could get interesting.   I live within city limits and have heard that the county Sheriff does not sign Form 1's or 4.s for anyone except his "buddies".  This is al second hand talk and may not be an issue.   If he refuses I'll probably go to the City Chief of Police's office.   I don't know if that will piss off the sheriff  (if he will not sign) but I'll find out, I guess.   I don't really want to go the trust or corporate route but will if I have to.   Thanks again.
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 3:38:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Original manufacturer of the Title I firearm goes in 4a.  The rest of field 4 needs to be filled in with the initial configuration you'll be building.  Don't put "multi" or list multiple options.  Your form will get kicked back for errors.  4h is for additional markings on the firearm, leave it blank unless you're using an imported firearm.  In that case put the Importer's info there.
View Quote


So nowhere on the form do you list what you engrave? Then why engrave?
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 7:24:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WIENAR:


So nowhere on the form do you list what you engrave? Then why engrave?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WIENAR:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Original manufacturer of the Title I firearm goes in 4a.  The rest of field 4 needs to be filled in with the initial configuration you'll be building.  Don't put "multi" or list multiple options.  Your form will get kicked back for errors.  4h is for additional markings on the firearm, leave it blank unless you're using an imported firearm.  In that case put the Importer's info there.


So nowhere on the form do you list what you engrave? Then why engrave?

Because you are required to do so when making a firearm
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 8:05:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WIENAR:


So nowhere on the form do you list what you engrave? Then why engrave?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WIENAR:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Original manufacturer of the Title I firearm goes in 4a.  The rest of field 4 needs to be filled in with the initial configuration you'll be building.  Don't put "multi" or list multiple options.  Your form will get kicked back for errors.  4h is for additional markings on the firearm, leave it blank unless you're using an imported firearm.  In that case put the Importer's info there.


So nowhere on the form do you list what you engrave? Then why engrave?


What you engrave is already listed in block 3b.
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 10:00:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

Because you are required to do so when making a firearm
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By WIENAR:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Original manufacturer of the Title I firearm goes in 4a.  The rest of field 4 needs to be filled in with the initial configuration you'll be building.  Don't put "multi" or list multiple options.  Your form will get kicked back for errors.  4h is for additional markings on the firearm, leave it blank unless you're using an imported firearm.  In that case put the Importer's info there.


So nowhere on the form do you list what you engrave? Then why engrave?

Because you are required to do so when making a firearm


I know this, I am just asking from the ATF's perspective, isn't that what 4h is for? 3b is your entire address, street included, but only city and state are requred on engraving. Let me clarify....this is in reference to taking a store bought lower and submitting form 1 for SBR, not original manufacture.

I am just not willing to wait 15 months to get my form pushed back for something silly, and I've never done a form 1. That's why I'm asking the experts
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 10:02:09 PM EDT
[#21]
I was prowling around the ATF web site yesterday and somewhere, I swear I did not dream it, I saw something about a change in the required info on engravings.  It was in the section on SBR's and the requirements being changed, or about to be changed.   I went back and naturally can not find it.  It was either a change or proposal and had a July 2013 date.   If someone else knows what I'm trying to talk about or if it has been already posted elsewhere here I'd really appreciate someone making me aware.   If I do find it and it's pertinent, I'll post.          Thanks
Link Posted: 10/30/2013 10:12:56 PM EDT
[#22]
I just found it.    It's a RULING, not a proposal and it's number 2013-3.   I'm not sure now if anything in this changes anything that was already there or not.   I'm just in the learning stage and am not afraid to ask questions and I also try to share what I think someone else may be able to use.   There is so much that I don't know that practically all is something that I CAN use.
I am trying to do this correctly (legally).   I don't know how much of what I hear about "big bad ATF" is true and how much is scary BS, but I have learned and read enough that I don't want to test them to find out.
Link Posted: 11/11/2013 3:11:14 PM EDT
[#23]
This is probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyways.

How do you know the overall length of the SBR for the form 1 if it's not assembled of don't have all the parts?

I plan on building a pistol while I wait for the stamp.  I know the barrel length I plan on using, but haven't picked a stock.
Link Posted: 11/11/2013 3:38:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Got_Nukes:
This is probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyways.

How do you know the overall length of the SBR for the form 1 if it's not assembled of don't have all the parts?

I plan on building a pistol while I wait for the stamp.  I know the barrel length I plan on using, but haven't picked a stock.
View Quote


Just about every combination has been built and the lengths are known. I just picked what stock I thought I would use and went with that. There is nothing to stop you from changing a stock after a gun is built so I dont see the problem.

Pick one and pick the length and move on. I really dont think it is that important
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 12:17:12 PM EDT
[#25]
I've seen this question asked a few times in different ways, so please forgive my repetition. I'm doing my first form 1s with my trust.
From comments here, it seems like best course is to leave 4H blank.
For 3b do I have to put my full trust name ie Mickey M Mouse, or can I put M.M. Mouse? I know what ever is in 3b is what has to be engraved later.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:58:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 9:09:59 PM EDT
[#27]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:





3b has to match, letter for letter, the name of the trust as it is listed in the trust documentation you submit. In turn, the exact same trust name must be engraved. But they will check the trust docs vs. what you put in 3b, and bounce the Form 1 if they do not match.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:



Originally Posted By tojan19:

I've seen this question asked a few times in different ways, so please forgive my repetition. I'm doing my first form 1s with my trust.

From comments here, it seems like best course is to leave 4H blank.

For 3b do I have to put my full trust name ie Mickey M Mouse, or can I put M.M. Mouse? I know what ever is in 3b is what has to be engraved later.


3b has to match, letter for letter, the name of the trust as it is listed in the trust documentation you submit. In turn, the exact same trust name must be engraved. But they will check the trust docs vs. what you put in 3b, and bounce the Form 1 if they do not match.
"revocable living" needs to be included in the engraving if its written on the form that way, correct?

 
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 10:26:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 11:09:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:

If "revokable living" is in the name of the trust, as it is written in the trust documents, then "revokable living" must be included in both 3b and in the engraving on the actual firearm.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By jarmstrong1029:
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By tojan19:
I've seen this question asked a few times in different ways, so please forgive my repetition. I'm doing my first form 1s with my trust.
From comments here, it seems like best course is to leave 4H blank.
For 3b do I have to put my full trust name ie Mickey M Mouse, or can I put M.M. Mouse? I know what ever is in 3b is what has to be engraved later.

3b has to match, letter for letter, the name of the trust as it is listed in the trust documentation you submit. In turn, the exact same trust name must be engraved. But they will check the trust docs vs. what you put in 3b, and bounce the Form 1 if they do not match.
"revocable living" needs to be included in the engraving if its written on the form that way, correct?  

If "revokable living" is in the name of the trust, as it is written in the trust documents, then "revokable living" must be included in both 3b and in the engraving on the actual firearm.


+1...I almost got F'ed over that. I was told by my dealer that revocable living trust was optional. I was told by NFA it is NOT without a doubt and not valid if I dont add.....
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 11:10:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Also not to be a grammar nazi but it is revocable....I wrote revokable on my form 1 and got it kicked back.


Just an FYI.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 1:19:55 PM EDT
[#31]
So if the trust name is: 'Mickey Mouse Revocable Living Trust' I understand that you must put that on both lines, but do you have to engrave the entire thing on the receiver or can you just engrave 'Mickey Mouse Trust' ?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 1:49:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 2:44:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Thanks Tony.
Link Posted: 12/28/2013 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Based on current feedback from the ATF and from those applicants getting rejection notices, item 4d may need to be update.

Assuming a stripped lower is being used, the exact model engraved on the lower needs to be input. And when I say exact, I mean exact. One member here was rejected when building his on a Spike's lower that said ST15, because he input ST-15. The discussion I started is here: What to use for model on eForm...

And I don't see why the paper forms would be any different.
Link Posted: 1/3/2014 5:26:31 AM EDT
[#35]
I'm sorry for the dumb question but I just got my trust set up and am in "omg nfa everything" mode.

If I Form 1 one of my current guns, is there a requirement to be capable of immediately assembling the new weapon upon approval? Or can I take my time in acquiring the new upper receiver (or barrel) after the Form 1 is approved?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/3/2014 11:45:54 AM EDT
[#36]
I don't think there's a time constrain since it is a application to build a firearm. But you could have every thing purchased but the barrel legally.
Link Posted: 1/3/2014 9:08:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Thanks for the info.

So if I get a Form 1 approved on a currently owned complete 16 inch rifle, can I continue to use it in non-NFA configuration until I acquire all my parts for the SBR build?
Link Posted: 1/3/2014 10:12:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mobil1:
Thanks for the info.

So if I get a Form 1 approved on a currently owned complete 16 inch rifle, can I continue to use it in non-NFA configuration until I acquire all my parts for the SBR build?
View Quote


You can always use it in non-NFA configuration, as I understand it. So, you can swap out the NFA upper as you like.
Link Posted: 1/19/2014 9:10:39 PM EDT
[#39]
I just have a few thank you and that is all.

Thank you to the OP for taking the time in making the guide.

Thank you to those who continue to answer repeated questions by those who fail to read or use their brain.

Finally a thank you to those who actually did read or have a little common sense and did not flood the thread with repeated or nonsense questions.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 7:25:37 PM EDT
[#40]
The problem with engraving AFTER you get your tax stamp is that the receiver is now a title II firearm, and only you or someone on your trust can possess it.
So I can't leave it with the engraver unless the receiver is owned by a trust and I temporarily put the engraver on the trust.
Obviously if you do your own engraving it's not a problem.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 8:26:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WizardBlack:
I didn't see a lot of commentary about how I implemented lawful purchase of NFA stuff. I see a lot of guys are going through a lot for a trust with a lawyer. Much of that stuff pertains to inheritance and whatnot. I personally just started an LLC. This required merely an online state-level tax ID application (had it printed out in15 minutes literally) and then a written and mailed Federal EIN number (Employers Identification Number) application using the name from the state application.  This is the requirement to have a govt. recognized business, not only if you are going to hire employees. Anyways, I started an LLC strictly for buying stuff like this. I have already gone through a form III and it went smooth. Anyways, going through the trust stuff with a lawyer is unnecessary IMHO. Likewise you cannot have a registered business name with the word "trust" in it since that is reserved for bank names. I hope this helps.
I guess my request is to revise the OP to mention an LLC as a quicker DIY alternative to a lawyer-initiated trust. I had lots of assistance from a dealer in recognizing that it works just fine. Ultimately the goober-ment just wants a way to keep track of you. That, and more loot in their war chest.
View Quote



The trust gives you the ability to let other people possess the firearm.  So if you want to let your brother borrow it, he just needs to be on the trust (and obviously the paperwork needs to be with the firearm also).
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 8:02:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By moshbucket:



The trust gives you the ability to let other people possess the firearm.  So if you want to let your brother borrow it, he just needs to be on the trust (and obviously the paperwork needs to be with the firearm also).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By moshbucket:
Originally Posted By WizardBlack:
I didn't see a lot of commentary about how I implemented lawful purchase of NFA stuff. I see a lot of guys are going through a lot for a trust with a lawyer. Much of that stuff pertains to inheritance and whatnot. I personally just started an LLC. This required merely an online state-level tax ID application (had it printed out in15 minutes literally) and then a written and mailed Federal EIN number (Employers Identification Number) application using the name from the state application.  This is the requirement to have a govt. recognized business, not only if you are going to hire employees. Anyways, I started an LLC strictly for buying stuff like this. I have already gone through a form III and it went smooth. Anyways, going through the trust stuff with a lawyer is unnecessary IMHO. Likewise you cannot have a registered business name with the word "trust" in it since that is reserved for bank names. I hope this helps.
I guess my request is to revise the OP to mention an LLC as a quicker DIY alternative to a lawyer-initiated trust. I had lots of assistance from a dealer in recognizing that it works just fine. Ultimately the goober-ment just wants a way to keep track of you. That, and more loot in their war chest.



The trust gives you the ability to let other people possess the firearm.  So if you want to let your brother borrow it, he just needs to be on the trust (and obviously the paperwork needs to be with the firearm also).


LLCs allow the same.  They may require a more intensive start up and annual maintenance depending on your state and local laws.  That was the reason for trusts becoming popular, same benefits as an LLC (no CLEO sign off, multiple parties, etc.) without the hassle of setting up and maintaining a corporation.  Some locales, an LLC may be just as easy or even easier than a trust, but in most it's not.
Link Posted: 4/2/2014 12:59:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadeye95:
I just found it.    It's a RULING, not a proposal and it's number 2013-3.   I'm not sure now if anything in this changes anything that was already there or not.   I'm just in the learning stage and am not afraid to ask questions and I also try to share what I think someone else may be able to use.   There is so much that I don't know that practically all is something that I CAN use.
I am trying to do this correctly (legally).   I don't know how much of what I hear about "big bad ATF" is true and how much is scary BS, but I have learned and read enough that I don't want to test them to find out.
View Quote



I had to go check this out.  You still have to engrave them with name and location.  It also looks like you have to engrave the caliber now if you are using a multi receiver.

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf

Link Posted: 4/2/2014 1:52:40 PM EDT
[#44]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iamnotafanofgravel:
I had to go check this out.  You still have to engrave them with name and location.  It also looks like you have to engrave the caliber now if you are using a multi receiver.



https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iamnotafanofgravel:



Originally Posted By Deadeye95:

I just found it.    It's a RULING, not a proposal and it's number 2013-3.   I'm not sure now if anything in this changes anything that was already there or not.   I'm just in the learning stage and am not afraid to ask questions and I also try to share what I think someone else may be able to use.   There is so much that I don't know that practically all is something that I CAN use.

I am trying to do this correctly (legally).   I don't know how much of what I hear about "big bad ATF" is true and how much is scary BS, but I have learned and read enough that I don't want to test them to find out.






I had to go check this out.  You still have to engrave them with name and location.  It also looks like you have to engrave the caliber now if you are using a multi receiver.



https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf



The caliber should already be on the barrel...

 
Link Posted: 5/5/2014 5:21:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iamnotafanofgravel:



I had to go check this out.  You still have to engrave them with name and location.  It also looks like you have to engrave the caliber now if you are using a multi receiver.

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iamnotafanofgravel:
Originally Posted By Deadeye95:
I just found it.    It's a RULING, not a proposal and it's number 2013-3.   I'm not sure now if anything in this changes anything that was already there or not.   I'm just in the learning stage and am not afraid to ask questions and I also try to share what I think someone else may be able to use.   There is so much that I don't know that practically all is something that I CAN use.
I am trying to do this correctly (legally).   I don't know how much of what I hear about "big bad ATF" is true and how much is scary BS, but I have learned and read enough that I don't want to test them to find out.



I had to go check this out.  You still have to engrave them with name and location.  It also looks like you have to engrave the caliber now if you are using a multi receiver.

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf



I just got a Form 1 approved.  I was instructed by the BATF that Box 4h is only to include the information you are adding to the firearm, such as your name or trust, city, state.  If you are using a lower which was manufactured by a company, you use their markings for model, serial number and caliber.  You would only engrave these if you were actually manufacturing the lower (such as an 80% lower).  As was pointed out above, the barrel will usually have the caliber stamped on it.  So if you changing calibers from what was originally marked, or if it was originally marked "multi-caliber" no engraving of the caliber would be required on the receiver as long as it is on the barrel.  If there are no caliber markings on the barrel, then you would need to mark the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) with the actual caliber/gauge once the caliber or gauge is known.

If in doubt, call the BATF and ask to speak with an examiner.  In my experience they are very friendly and very helpful.

Link Posted: 5/5/2014 7:36:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: snakeman48] [#46]
Just used this thread to fill out my first Form 1 to attach a stock to my Sig P556 pistol.

Thanks to the OP for his time and effort to spell out the process.

Form 1 mailed off on 04/ 29/ 2014
Received in Martinsburg on 05/ 01/ 2014
Check cashed on 05/ 05/ 2014
Link Posted: 5/22/2014 10:32:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Regarding question 4-A, Name and Location of Original Manufacturer.

My rifle was made by Bushmaster when they were in Maine. They are now in NY I believe. Should I fill in 4-A as it appears on my rifle, such as :


B.F.I.
Windham, ME
U.S.A
View Quote


Or should I put


Bushmaster
Windham, ME
USA
View Quote


Or simply


Bushmaster, United States
View Quote

Any recommendations appreciated.
Link Posted: 5/22/2014 10:45:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTGunner82:
Regarding question 4-A, Name and Location of Original Manufacturer.

My rifle was made by Bushmaster when they were in Maine. They are now in NY I believe. Should I fill in 4-A as it appears on my rifle, such as :
View Quote


I've always put Mfg Name, CIty, State as it appears on the firearm.  So, "BFI, Windham, ME."
Link Posted: 5/22/2014 10:56:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Always a good reference
Link Posted: 6/3/2014 11:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scul] [#50]
I've looked through most of this thread, and didn't see my questions asked (filing as an individual, btw):

1.  The name I engrave has to be exactly the same as the name I put in 3b, correct?  If so, is it acceptable to put First Last as my name, or does it need the middle name (full or initial?) also?

2.  I am going to build an SBR off an Anderson lower.  Under 4a, should I put Anderson Mfg. as is on the receiver, or Anderson Manufacturing, which is their legal name?  I assume it's the latter.

Edit:
Looks like my second question was answered just two posts up by JoshAston.  Doh!  Seems that the former Anderson Mfg. would be acceptable.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 15
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top