Interesting. Tag!

Originally Posted By tctlrld: This is an interesting post from another forum regarding setting up a Trust instead of a Corp for NFA item transfers. Sounds almost too good to be true. Looking for comments from other people that have experience with this. sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/669101014/p/1

To be honest, the "Too good to be true" is what scared me off but I think it is a real good avenue to take if you can't get sign offs. I have no problem in the county I live in so even though the Trust route has worked out great for others and it "DOES" say right on the form that a Trust can be used, I have no need. The wait kinda sucks (on individual transfers) but I am patient and prints don't cost me anything.

I say GO FOR IT if you are 1: not patient or 2: can't get a sign off

ETA: I will be setting up a Trust the very same day I find out sign off's aren't possible in my county

Ive got Form 4s using the TRUST method. It words EXACTLY like that post says. Its not a gray area and its not too good to be true. IT is true. The ATF says, LLC, COrps, Associations, partnerships, Trusts, and something else are legal entitees that can own NFA items.

Originally Posted By TennesseeRat: Am I reading all of this correctly? 1. I can go to a Class II or III dealer and do the transfer fee and prints, and wait. 2. I can set up a trust for possibly same amount of money as transfer, take that paperwork to ATF and dealer, and take possession of gun/silencer with no prints and/or transfer fee? I have to be missing something.

No sure what you are reading, but that is not legally correct. A Trust is like any other entity. You still have to pay the transfer tax and go through a Class III dealer. The Trust route, like a LLC or corporation, simply means you don't have to go through the CLEO signoff, fingerprints, etc. Also, the transfer time is usually faster.

tag and thanks for the interesting find!

The trust deal means you don't have to wait as long, submit prints and photos, and get a CLEO signature.

So where does the ATF get the prints and photo from to begin with, when you set up the trust, or is that requirement simply waived?

ETA, if I don't have a problem with the extra wait, or with a CLEO signing off it would be easier to NOT set up the trust since that would be an added expense and time on my part, correct?

I appreciate everyone's patience in this. I'm just a salesman.

Originally Posted By TennesseeRat: ETA, if I don't have a problem with the extra wait, or with a CLEO signing off it would be easier to NOT set up the trust since that would be an added expense and time on my part, correct? I appreciate everyone's patience in this. I'm just a salesman.

If you can get a CLEO signoff, that is almost always the best way to go: You own it and there is zero future paperwork, which translates as "zero chance to miss a deadline and unknowingly turn your NFA toys into contraband."

The one exception is if you have a spouse or kids who are as into NFA as you are. With an individual registration, your wife or kids cannot legally have access to the safe where they are stored. If you want to store your NFA in a place where they have access, or if you wife/kids would like to take your NFA to the range, corporate ownership is the way to go: You just list each of them as officers of the corporation and, as long as they are over 21, not felons or any other disqualified person, they can have access to and possession of all your NFA toys when you are not around.

HTH!

Originally Posted By in_burrito: Originally Posted By tony_k: If you can get a CLEO signoff, that is almost always the best way to go: You own it and there is zero future paperwork, which translates as "zero chance to miss a deadline and unknowingly turn your NFA toys into contraband." AFAIK the trust does not expire or require renewal either.

AFAIK, you are correct under current law, although I am not a lawyer. Still, the State of Florida always has a legal right to, some day in the future, attach additional requirements for maintenance of legal entities that could unknowingly put a trust in jeopardy. They have no such power over human entities, short of the death penalty.

IMHO, there is no compelling reason why anyone who is able to get a signoff would opt for an artificial ownership entity instead. A corporation allows multiple persons to possess a single NFA item; a trust has no such advantage.

It doesn't get much easier than setting up a LLC.

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Originally Posted By mfingar: Not wanting the local CLEO knowing your personal business is a good argument.

In these days of Homeland Security and The Patriot Act, somehow I don't have a lot of confidence in the privacy of that information.

In addition, I own MGs not as safe queens but to shoot, and at many of the ranges and all of the MG shoots I attend, the range officers inspect the forms for every NFA item beforehand. In my experience, NFA toys of all types draw attention at any range or event.

I've never had a confrontation with LE, but those who have report that showing an officer his boss's signature on the paperwork often settles things quickly and amicably.

I guess my privacy would be assured if I had a private range at home, or just kept my NFA inside my house and fondled them occasionally, but that's not me.

Remember that a corp gives some liability protection. If someone sues you your lawyer can show how the corp owns the gun, and they will have to sue the corp and it is harder to get your house, etc.

Originally Posted By AIRBORNE5697: Living in Florida what is the best type of Living Trust to start? Should I go to a lawyer or can I do it myself? Besides being Notorized what else do I need to do? Also does it need to have assests in it before I can add any NFA items?

I had a lawyer do it. He set it up specifically for NFA items and has language in it that pertains to NFA items. I don't have any assets in the trust as of yet. It's currently just a legal entity with zero assets. I'll be buying an Outback II suppressor soon and that will be the first asset of the trust.