After seeing this example at the KY HTF Spring Shoot at Knob Creek yesterday, I'm curious how many of you have modified your 91/30's and what exactly you did to them.
I'd be interested in trying something similar with mine and would appreciate any input and/or tutorials.


 

if Bubba was up for 9 nights straight on a Crystal Meth bender- thats what his rifle would look like.

is his scope mount screwed to the stock ? yeah, thats rock solid !

For the money you would spend in doing something like that, you could easily buy a nice, used sporting rifle and some ammunition and you wouldn't have the blood on your hands of having destroyed a historic and collectible military rifle.

Cottonbaler, run, just run and never look back! lol

Just kidding, I personally think the rifle in your picture looks pretty bad ass. But I hope you are prepared for the hail of flak thats coming your way for this post

If I ever had a friend do that to a mosin, i would personally beat the piss out of them.  The only things i could justify are bedding and corking.

I modified mine a couple of years ago...

Looks like he stick welded the brake to the barrel as well.





eta:

If I was going to modify something to actually try and get good long range result from I'd get a good quality M48 A/B/BO and a set of ZRAK mounts and do it that way.





 

I personally have not modified mine.  Sometime back the Finns modified it by replacing the front sight and stock though.  

Please don't butcher another Mosin

Yeah, there were only ten million+ 91/30s produced,,,

Yes. Please do not butcher the Mosins. Yes, there were a lot of Mosins made. Yes, they are plentiful and cheap now. So were M1903s once. So were Mauser 98Ks. The problem is that people think it's okay and cool to do this when they have no idea what they are doing to what.

"Yes, let's sporterize Mosins, they're cheap!" - results in THIS. Oh, look at that, it's a HACKED UP U.S. ORDNANCE MARKED REMINGTON M91. This is why we can't have nice things. This is why every fucking Ross rifle has been turned into a crappy sporter.

Don't do it. Just don't. If you want a sporter rifle then buy one. If you want to hack on something buy something already hacked up or a barreled receiver or something. Think of the Westinghouse Mosins. Please.

-Mark

YIKES!! I wanted responses and I got em'.







The old warhorse WILL NOT be butchered! Perhaps a refinish like kingston_fisher's beautiful example would be a more appropriate course of action.





Thanks for the replies.



 

"Only" ~6.2M M1 Carbines were produced.

"Only" ~5.6M M1 Garands were produced.

"Only" ~2.2-2.5M M1917s were produced.

"Only" ~1M M1903s were produced.

Where's the line? As long as I chop up a nice Inland or Springfield, it should be a trivial thing, right? After all they produced the greatest number of the respective M1s.

Nobody REALLY likes the M1917, so the threshold for that particular rifle has to be lower, would it not? What's one less crappy Eddystone? Alvin York didn't like 'em anyway.

How many have to be built before history is irrelevant?

Man! That was a nice M91, before someone "improved" it. $250 for that is a joke.

I recently saw a badly converted M1917. They had it listed at $200 or $250 and I remember thinking that was FAR too much for it. The receiver had been VERY sloppily drilled for a scope mount. The holes were ugly, really ugly.

That poor M91 did not deserve that. $250 is crazy for it now, but it would have been worth much, much more if it hadn't been mangled.

I've seen some real nasty ones, too. Just trolling Gunbroker for a week or so will find some real winners.

To put some more fuel on the Mosin fire and show off some true Bubba craftsmanship:


Yes, an actual bolt for a bolt handle. This one's D&T'ed too, though you can't see it from that angle.

And what did Bubba decide to hack on? A common Tula M91/30? Oh, of course not!



Nice things, we cannot have them.

-Mark

That's painful to look at!

This thread makes me sad.

ETA: This thread needs happy pics.  This is my 1942 Izhevsk that I shot for the first time yesterday!

Another picture to brighten up this thread. One of my '42 Izhevsks, best shooting Mosin I've ever held.
Only modification was picking Olga's toenails out of the cosmoline

The only mods I've done to my Mosin's are refreshing Ivan's shellac job and playing mix and match with the trigger parts to get serviceable triggers.



I like my Mosin's but there are better milsurps for sporterizing/bubbaizing.

ok folks you are going to hate me..but I did it, i sporterized my mosin, dropped it into a synthetic stock, shortened the barrel, and put a 90 degree target crown on it, and then put a scout scope on it with a darrels scout mount. Then i took the bulgarian orginial stock and put a finnish marked action with a nice bore and a unnumbered bolt into it, and sold it to a friend, who won't butcher it.

The real fact of the matter is, that the gun is his, and he can do what he wants to it. I do not condone what I did, I do not suggest it either. but it is his gun to do with what he wants when he wants. That is because yep...this is america, land of the free...at least for a while longer, but that is for another thread. I have one 91/30 in all it's complete glory, one m39 in it's complete glory, and my hacked up sporterized one as well. Why did I do it..because I could, will it be worth anything 10 years down the line, 30 years down the line...nope and I am ok with that. The other 2 will be good to go at that point, and I will still have a nice sporting rifle to shoot or take out deer hunting that I don't have to worry about destroying it's collector's value on accident.

So do as you wish with your guns..they are yours. Just remember you may be destroying a piece of history. so buy more than one and have a backup :)

Best Mosins out there.
Congrats!

I am getting ready to do a sporter job on a 91/30  in the very near future.
I'll post some pics when I get it finished,.

+1 on the rifle belonging to the owner and his having the right to do with it what he wishes.
In most cases the all original will be worth more money than a sporter job since the purists cannot stand the idea of somebody monkeying with something they don't even own or that they own way too many of  to begin with.

I see no problem with taking an already butchered or a rifle in rough condition that can't easily be refinished into a good piece and sporterizing it if thats what tickles your pickle.
An example would be the Type 55 Chinese Mosins that were coming out a few years ago, they were in horrid condition and would never clean up into a presentable surplus condition, but if you did sporterized it, it could turn into something decent.
Now turning rare mosins into a bubba job is a different story for me, I wouldn't do it but you are free to do what you want with it
As for me, all I did to my mosin was get rid of the shellac that looked like crap and refinished with BLO and it turned into one fine looking rifle.

I cleaned the bores

No the Finn barreled ones are the best out there. Mine is a 91/30 that has Finn property marks, and a Finn front sight.  It also has a fingergrove stock that was manufactured by splicing two Russian pattern stocks together.  It's made just like a Finn stock, but it doesn't have the hog-belly shape.  Hex reciever, Izhevsk 1942 barrel.  Tang date is 1897.  

It is however a way cool piece of history, that just happens to shoot nickel sized groups with the Czech light ball.

Also cleaned the cosmoline out.






 

You've convinced me.

My next project:



Anyone know where I can get a synthetic stock for a M1917? What's the best scope mount to bolt to the receiver?

After this, I'm going to find me a K98 to make into a deer rifle, after all only 12 Million were produced.

For the record, I'm not a "purist", I just don't like the disingenuous "numbers" argument. There were X number produced, period, and no more will ever be made, so they are ALL a diminishing commodity. Every year X are lost to failure, neglect, willful destruction, and modification. "10 Million" is not an infinite supply and I dare say you're not dismissing the guy who has a pool table full of K98s as a purist who "own[s] too many to begin with".

Yeah, it's your rifle and this is America and you can do whatever you wish with your property. Remember, however, that others also have the freedom to not like what you did to it and comment accordingly. That's the price for posting on a public forum. You get to hear what EVERYONE thinks, no matter if you WANT to or not. Personally, I hope you buy 5 million 91/30s (And I doubt that many are in the US) and modify them all. That will make all of mine worth a hell of a lot more than what I paid for them.

There's a reason unmolested K98s command the premium that they do. That reason is because they're are so few left in that configuration. How many are there? I doubt anyone has a clue, but I'll bet it's a HELL of a lot less than the 12 Million that were produced. As Mosin-Nagants become more scarce, are banned from importation and are lost, the price of them will go up dramatically. Production numbers mean nothing, compared to the number available. It didn't hurt that we're buying them from cash-strapped countries for pennies on the dollar, either, but those factors will only keep the value down so long.

There's not a limitless supply of these rifles and the current supply can dry up at any time, for any reason one can imagine.

+1

So is that an all matching 1917 or a piece part gun?
If it is a piece part rifle I can give you some infor on the parts you want.

The two 91/30 Mosins I am picking up tomarrow are piece part rifles. Hardly what I would call collectables.
Century rifles with renumbered trigger groups and ground and renumbered bolts, but the bores are excellent.
Big decision is whether I am going to cut up the laminated stock rifle or the birch stocked rifle,,,,
Do what you want with the 1917, I have seen some really nice sporters built on these actions.
I have a  K98 that was, previous to my acquiring it for $100, really butchered in a sporter attempt. I have worked on a little bit here and there for the last couple of years.
Probably going to rebarrel it in 6.5X55 Swedish and I have a full length walnut stock finish curing for this project.
This will be far less expensive than rebuilding the rifle to military specs and should I choose to sell the rifle at a later date, I will realize more profit on the sale.

Im not COMPLETELY against people "modifying"  THEIR rifles.  But that is an excellent argument for keeping these rifles as historically maintained as possible.

Sweet jesus god almighty

I don't know how you define a "piece part gun", so all I can tell you is it is in the configuration that uncle Sam's armors put it in.

When I bought it, it looked like this:



Yeah, the 91/30s aren't all that collectible at the moment, but they are in correct military configuration. They're in the same configuration in which the Soviets would have issued them, had it become necessary. That's part of their history.

Like I said, do as you will with them. Just don't tell me that they have no history because X number were made. Similarly, don't tell me you know what they will be worth in the future, because neither you, nor I can do more than speculate on that.

The K98 was already altered. Anything you do to it isn't going change that fact that is isn't in original condition any more.

I'm not completely against it, either. I just take exception to the "they made 10 million of these!" arguments. It really don't matter how many WERE produced. That only tells you how many ever existed. It bears no relevance to how many remain and how many will be available to private citizens in the future.

That's not me saying, "This is your rifle and I'll tell you what to do with it." I usually caution people looking to "tacticool" such weapons that they do have history and are not particularly good candidates for conversion into a "modern" tactical weapon. There are better options out there that have no historical significance that will also preform a hell of a lot better in that role. I could turn one of my K31s into a 1000 Yard competition rifle, but at the end of the day, I'd probably be a whole lot more satisfied and a whole lot less frustrated if I just purpose built a Rem 700 to do the same thing.

A lot of people said, "Aw, screw it, they made a lot of these!" about a lot of rifles that have significant value today. Your rifle, your choice. Think about it a little before you jump into a project that didn't work out so well for many others.

Believe it or not, I actually like the camo job.

-Mark

I saw R Lee ermey's garand on his show that had a camo job and i was looking at my mosin at the same time.  I said, " you know what self, i think that mosin would look just as good, not as cool, but look as good" .  lol   I had to drink some before being able to paint the wood stock though.  I figure its krylon though so i can take it off pretty easy and refinish the stock if i ever want to.

Here they are;



Bolts and floorplates are reground and electro-pencil numbered on both rifles.



The birch stocked rifle has a counterbored muzzle and this is the one I will cut down.
I am thinking of cutting it to 24", adding a Williams front ramp and a Williams rear mounted on the receiver ring.
Big question I haven't decided on os whether to cut the stock, it is pretty decent, or get one from American Gunstock,(Most likely).
I am also deciding whether to turn the bolt handle down or leave it horizontal.

The laminate rebuild, a 1937 Tula receivered rifle, is in good enough shape that I will leave it as-is except for polishing the floorplate and bolt and restamping the numbers if it headspaces OK.

Is my Mosin considered defacing? I just added a PU scope and bent bolt handle. Did the work myself on professional equipment,took my time and it shoots straight and true.

Not that it matters to you, but the modified rifles are no longer C&R.

Oh no! Say it isn't so!

Even though it may not be original, at least the parts are correct. I don't consider putting PU scopes and bent bolts to be "bubba jobs". +1 for the good lookin rifle

I dunno.
If my rifles were all original I wouldn't think about sporterizing them, they are darned nice basic rifles as-is.

But mine are not even arsenal rebuilds, they were hacked together from piece parts by the drunken monkeys at Century Arms.
Firing pin protrusion wasn't even set right on both rifles, I am waiting on a set of headspace gages from my buddy to check this.

I will say much of the internal parts are new to near new.
I may buy a couple more just for the parts.

On any C&R firearm, the only thing century has done is put on the import marks. (unless it is the .gov that does it)

Modifying them after Importation would void their C&R status.

Some more food for thought for you guys:

Original, all matching K98s are getting rare. They sell for $1k to several thousand, depending on year/maker/condition.
RC K98s are total mixmasters and are now fetching $300-$400 in many places . There are even cases where people have spent more for them and I don't know of any that have been imported recently. They used to sell for under a hundred dollars.

The most recently imported 91/30s are mixmasters, too. However, they sell for around a hundred bucks, because they are available in numbers, NOW. I remember a time, not even a decade ago, when you could get them for around $40, or as low as $25 each, if you bought a case of them. The same goes for M38s and M44 and look at where their prices are, nowadays. They've already doubled, or even tripled in value. Some specific examples have gone even higher.

Now for the big question. How many all original, matching, non-refurb, non Finn capture, 91/30s have you seen recently? I don't know about you, but it's a hell of a lot less of them than I have seen original and matching K98s. What will that make the refurb guns worth, in the next ten years? Twenty years?

That's not true. At least on the two rifles  I have sitting here.
Let me explain,,,
I picked these two rifles based on manufacturer and dates.
One is a 1937 Tula and it was fitted in the laminated stock pictured.
The other is a 1944 Tula and it was fitted up in the birch stock.

The '37 has a clean bore but it is counterbored at the muzzle, the guy issued the rifle was nothing if not diligent on keeping the bore clean, so no pitting and it was turned in with a worn out muzzle from cleaning.
The '44 Tula barrelled action is stark raving new, no wear and an excellent to new bore.
Why is this interesting? At least to me,,, 1944 is when the arsenals began to switch production to the M44 carbine. Consequently, I don't believe this barrelled action was ever issued.

As for the 1937 Tula rifle, think Spanish Civil War.

All the accumulation of parts on the rifles are new to as new including the bolts. The  bolt bodies were not ground as I suspected on first inspection, they were never stamp numbered to begin with.
The internals and bolt faces appear as new, never used, the firing pins have not been adjusted for length, just screwed in even though combo tools accompanied both rifles.

Neither buittplate has been stamped either and the screws are pristine.
The laminated stock had never been fitted to a rifle, it is a new replacement stock that was jammed onto the '37 action, heck the screws weren't even tightened and the action did not fit down into the stock as it should.
The birch stock is not battered and the handguards from both rifles are new as are the barrel bands, poorly fitted too.

Somebody assembled some rifles from new to near new parts and it wasn't the com-bloc, I suspect,,,,,
I am now thinking of taking another path with my rifles.
Worry not purists, these rifles are off the list to be butchered.

I don't care about C&R status. These rifles are mine and since Century did not modify anything on or about the rifles, they simply assembled them from the component parts, which is quite common with imports, the rifles still qualify for C&R status.
Rifles are commonly shipped broken down into several containers to discourage theft in transit and many, if not most, importers do not reassemble correctly numbered parts as it takes too much time for the profit and turn around realized..

Ok then what would be a good or decent finish to put of it?  I have seen several that have been re-finished but no one puts the color or type,

They may have a lot of "new" parts on them, but someone assembling a $69-89 dollar rifle like that over here is going to lose money just in labor. With respect, I think your assessment is way off base.

It is NOT common for Century to assemble Mosin-Nagants and there is no reason for them to do so. They get them as complete rifles, unlike the semi-autos that can only come in as parts kits. As far as I understand, they simply sell the incomplete and broken rifles as "u-fix-ems" and everyone's happy. I'd have to see something from Century, saying they "rebuild" Mosin-Nagants before I start to believe Century does anything but import and inspect them, just like everyone else does.

I have several forced-matched rifles that were force matched by Soviet armorers. Century doesn't care about forced matched rifles, so they sure as hell didn't do it and it does indicate that the rifle in question was imported complete, most likely without it's bayonet. (I Never see any that are even forced matched) I have several Finn Mosin-Nagants that have their matching Finn-stamped bolt. That also indicates that they came into the country intact or someone took care to see the bolt got back to it's correct rifle, which seems unlikely.

You might want to ask the guys over at Parallax Bill's or Gunboards, I'm sure many on either board can detail how the rifles are shipped into the country. They know a lot more about C&Rs than I do.

The '37 is an SCW? That makes it at least uncommon. Glad you've seen the light, at least on that one.

If you want to go with an original type finish, talk to these guys. They'll get you set in the right direction.

If you're not looking for originality, pretty much anything you like would work. I think you'll find BLO or Tung oil to be very popular.

I am unfamiliar with SCW as a term.

Looking at the bolts this morning in more detail reveals the '37 bolt is all Tula except for the cocking piece which has a five point star that I have seen on type 53 cocking pieces.
The bolt from the '44 Tula is a mishmash, unmarked bolt body, Sestrorevsk pre-war cocking piece, Ishvesk pre-war bolt head, Tula extractor.

The '37 bears the box/bar rebuild for metal on the receiver ring with several inspector and Nitro proofs and at least two box diagonals rebuild marks are on the stock along with a bar/circle in a triangle mark on the rear of the comb at the buttplate tang.

I fitted the '44 action in the laminate stock last night and worked the handguards down so the barrel bands will fit without spreading completely apart and not require a judicious application of rawhide hammer to move them.

SCW = Spanish Civil War.

Bolts and rifles with mishmashed parts are not uncommon. If fact, they're pretty common. Like US armorers, the Russians cared more about operation of the weapon than "correctness" of parts manufacturers. I have a Finn M28 with Tula, Izhevsk, Tikka, and is built on a New England Westinghouse receiver. It is correct for it's final Fined state.

This is especially true for the mass rifle refurbishment that the Soviets had workers doing as "busy work" after WWII. No particular care was taken to keep the rifle's parts all one manufacturer. The Finns also cared little for who made the parts, as long as the finished rifle met accuracy standards.

Regardless of who put them together, I am enjoying fixing them up.
A bit of "Busy work" for myself!