RA45T's 1975 Remington Model 870 Police

First off, you don't need a lot of junk hanging on your shotgun. That said, there are plenty of things you can do to your shotgun to make it preform better. Shotguns don't carry much ammo in the magazine, and the ammo that is there is heavy and bulky. Shotguns usually come with a little tiny bead that's great from shooting birds out of the clear blue sky with 1000 tiny pellets. Shotguns usually come with long stocks and long barrels, designed to be swung along a moving aerial target. But there is no rule that you have to keep your shotgun box stock.

Mesa Tactical

Action Types and Brand Choices
There's 4 basic shotgun action types: bolt action, break open, pump action, and autoloading.

Bolt action shotgun were popular for awhile because they were cheap. They have a long, complicated manual cycle and were made very poorly. There's nothing to recommend, other than don't.

Break open shotguns come in three flavors, single shot, side by side (SxS), and over and under (O/U). None are particularly good for self defense (SD). If forced to take a break open shotgun, I would choose a side by side with separate triggers. Not so I could have buck in one barrel and slugs in the other (complicated!), but because it's inherently more reliable than the single selective trigger setup. Same reason I would not ever recommend an over and under shotgun for SD. A single shot shotgun is not a good choice, unless you're that poor. If all you have is a break open shotgu, then learn to reload it fast, and practice transitioning to pistol.

Pump action shotgun are overwhelmingly the most popular kind of defensive shotgun. There are many excellent designs on the market, and most are cheaper NIB than a NIB double SxS. The pump action shotgun is operated by manually pumping the forend back and forth to eject and load a new shell into the chamber. "Pumping" the gun is accomplished during or after recoil, depending on the skill of the user. Some people have had issues with short-stroking the pump shotgun. This is remedied with familiarity and training.

Autoloading shotguns generally have the lowest recoil, depending on their operating system, and fastest rate of fire. There are three basic methods of semiautomatic operation, Recoil Operated, Gas Operated, and Inertia Operated.

The earliest designs were Recoil Operated, and uses Newton's 3rd law "If body A exerts a force on body B, then body B will exert an equal and opposite force back on A for the same period of time." Recoil Operated shotguns by design need a powerful shell to function, and have the most recoil of the three systems. In a Recoil Operated firearm, the barrel and bolt move rearward away from the fired charge. There are two basic kinds of Recoil Operation, Long Recoil and Short Recoil. The Long Recoil System is found on the Browning Auto-5 and a few ancient machineguns. In Long Recoil, the bolt is locked into the barrel, and both move rearward with recoil, until the bolt stops, and the barrel returns forward. The fired shell is ejected as soon as the barrel clears, and when the barrel stops moving forwards, a shell is released from the magazine, which trips a lever releasing the bolt, which chambers the shell and locks. Short Recoil is found on almost all semiautomatic pistols and is similar to Long Recoil, except the barrel only moves rearward enough to unlock the bolt, or slide, which continues rearward.


The second system is Gas Operated. In a gas operated firearm, there is a small hole in the barrel where gas from the fired cartridge is bleed off and pushes on a piston, which operates the bolt. A spring forces the bolt forward again, reloading the chamber. This system has the softest recoil of the three.

The final system is Inertia Operated, which is similar to Short Recoil Operation, but a little more complicated. In an Inertia Operated shotgun, the barrel and bolt recoil rearwards a very short distance, compressing a spring between the bolt and bolt carrier, then the bolt and barrel stop. The bolt carrier is now driven rearward by the spring, unlocking the bolt and extracting the fired shell. Another spring drives the bolt and carrier forward, loading another shell, and driving the barrel forward, the bolt locks, and the shotgun is ready to fire again.

Mike103 suggested I only recommend industry standard shotguns, not specific brands or models. I agree. I like the 870, but that doesn't make the 500 a bad gun. If it's popular, it's probably for a good reason. Think about it.

Sights
Bead sights are the historic standard on shotguns, but very hard to see in the dark. Ghost Ring Sights (GRS) are much more precise and repeatable than a bead, but some shooters find GRSs unnecessary and feel that GRSs slow them down. The XS Big Dot front sight can be easily installed over a bead, and offers improvements in every way over a bead sight. Easy to see, just as fast, and it glows in the dark. The XS Big Dot front sight is an excellent compromise between plain bead and GRS. Traditional rifle sights are very accurate, but very slow (unless you have alot of practice), and hard to see in the dark. XS makes replacement blades for the Remington factory rifle sights which are far superior in speed of acquisition and nighttime use, though the XS Express type sights are not as accurate as GRS at range. I do not like the fiber optic sights for shotguns, I find them too fragile. But then again, I am very hard on equipment. For GRS, I like the Wilson Combat, XS, and LPA. The Wilson Combat front sights epoxies over the existing Remington bead on a pedestal. Some feel that this setup is not sturdy enough, I haven't managed to knock mine off the barrel yet, but I've tried. I knocked it off. The XS front is available in a "banded" setup, where the protective wings on either side of the front sight are a piece of sheet metal that clamps around the barrel, and lock tights in place. This is also pretty sturdy. You can also get a XS front for the Remington factory front sight base, or solder on a similar base with a dovetail. The LPA front solders in place, and is plenty sturdy.
ETA: I broke both the front and rear WC/ST TracLoc sight. The front was knocked off on a doorframe, and I broke the rear sight elevation/windage nut while zeroing the shotgun with slugs at 50 yards. I was not over 15 or 16 pounds, because I install scopes almost every day and use a torque wrench for it. I have since replaced my TracLoc with XS GRS.


XS Big Dot epoxy on front sight



XS rear sight, Shallow V notch express type.


Hendricks5150 like fiber optic sights.


Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies Trac Loc GRS.


XS Banded GRS.


XS Big Dot front sight, direct replacement for factory front.


LPA GRS.


L to R: Williams Ivory Remington rifle replacement front, XS standard dot Remington Rifle/shotgun replacement front, XS Big Dot sight that epoxies directly over a barrel mounted bead, Remington factory "bead on a pedestal."




Barrel and Magazine Extensions
There are several standard barrel lengths on the defensive shotgun. In inches, 12, 14, 18, and 20. This is because on many pumps, the shortest barrel you can have is 12", without modifying the 4 shell magazine tube. With a +1 shell extension, the barrel should be 14 inches. An 18 inch barrel  is the shortest non-NFA barrel a shotgun can have, and a 18 inch barrel allows a +2 shot extension, which brings magazine capacity up to 6+1. A 20 inch barrel can have a 7 shot magazine or a +3 shot extension, for a total in gun capacity of 7+1.

The 18" barrel is the most popular, as it is the shortest non-NFA barrel. Many shooter prefer the factory magazine with no extension, for a lighter, KISS shotgun.More than 22" is rarely seen on a defensive shotgun, because the gun is already long and heavy. Longer barrels are needed to produce tight groups of birdshot, and to aid in hitting aerial targets. Long barrels are a hindrance in close quarters. Ventilated rib shotgun barrels are designed to make it easier to hunt birds with. Ventrib barrels are very visually appealing, but offer little advantage in a fighting shotgun. But they do look awesome. Especially on short barreled fighting shotguns.


mEnTL32's 870 with cut down vent rib and XS banded GRS. Looks sweet.



Remington M1100 Sage International Sidewinder conversion owned by PursuitSS with 12 inch barrel.

CAR-AR-M16's 14" barreled 870 with +1 Scattergun Tech/Wilson Combat magazine extension.


Searcherfortruth has a 18 inch barrel and a +2 WC/SGT extension.


Kalahnikid's 870 has a 20" barrel and a +3 extension.


Marketgarden has a 22 inch barrel on his Remington 1100 Tactical, with a +4 DMW magazine extension and an extended Briley choke tube.

Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies makes a good magazine extension, available in +1 or +2 rounds. Vang Comp's +2 extension is cosmetically indentical, but is machined from one piece of bar stock, and not brazed, so it's stronger. The Remington factory extension is available in +2 or +3, and is a two piece design that requires the use of a clamp. MAX-100 makes custom extensions.  The WC extension is brazed and welded from at least 3 pieces (not including sling loop). The end can break off and fail. I have never seen this happen, but such a failure is impossible with the Vang Comp.

More important than a high magazine capacity is learning to run the gun properly. Load one shoot one drills and such. The shooter must be constantly topping off the magazine in a shotgun, because the shotgun is an inherently low capacity weapon. Other firearm designs that use detachable magazine have advantages is speed of reloading, but the magazines add bulk and extra magazines must be carried.



On gun ammo
As the shotgun is a very low capacity weapon, having extra ammunition on hand is a plus. However, it does add weight, so that must be considered. The Uncle Mike's elastic butt cuffs hold 5 extra shells,but are prone to shifting forward with recoil. This can be stopped by cutting a hole for the sling swivel in the bottom of the cuff. TacStar and Mesa Tactical make receiver mounted shell carriers, holding either 4 or 6 shells. These Side Saddles put the extra weight in the middle of the gun, which helps with balance issues. The carriers are mounted by replacing the trigger pins with bolts. Sling shell carriers are not a good choice. Too much weight on the sling makes the gun swing around a lot.

SpeedFeed makes several stocks for shotguns which hold shells inside the stock. They cannot be shortened due to the internal magazine, so I don't like to use them. If you prefer 14" LOP, the SpeedFeed stock can be an option for you.


TacStar SideSaddle.


Two Uncle Mike's buttcuffs. The one on the folding stock has been modified to fit tight on the stock arm, and the one on the wood stock has been modified to allow the sling swivel to hold it in place.


Like this.


Dragracer_Art's 870 has an AMS buttstock shell carrier. Sturdier than the Uncle Mike's and holds an extra shell.


AKSU has a Speed Feed stock on his 870 Police, which carries 4 extra shells inside the stock.


Light
Having a light on the shotgun helps you see in the dark. It adds weight up front, which helps keep muzzle jump down. But it is heavy. Important thing when mounting a light is that you can reach the switch, but it doesn't hit your hand during recoil.


SERT103's "Scattergunized Remington 870" has a SureFire dedicated forend.


Hendricks5150's 9P mounted on the left side of his 870.


M24shooter's M930 SPX with S&J Hardward magazine clamp/lightmount/bayonet lug with mounted Streamlight TLR-1 and M9 bayonet.


Chapperjoe has mounted a G2 on his 3 rail forend, along with many other tacticool goodies!


MinesBroken has mounted a light and tape switch on his M4.


AKSU's ShortStocked, rifle sighted KISS 870 with dedicated forend is a very nice setup.


Black-Tiger's excellent example of a fighting 870. Hogue stock, sidesaddle, SureFire dedicated forend, and Scattergun Tech sights/mag extension.

Accessories
Other accessories I highly recommend are oversized safeties. I like using dump pouches for ammo carriers. High visibility followers are a big help in determining if the magazine is loaded. The oversize carrier releases for 1100s and 11-87s are a good buy, as well.An accessory that is gaining popularity lately is the vertical fore grip. TacStar has made Tommy Gun style pistol grips for shotguns for years now. But double pistol grips like Tommy Gun grips put all the recoil into the web of your hand. A better setup is the stubby TangoDown VFG or angled grip (AFG & AFG2) from MagPul. It allows more purchase on the forend for more positive cycling of the action, without putting more recoil into your hand. You don't put your thumb around it, but grip the forend like you would without a VFG, but the bottom of your hand is on the VFG.


Remington 870 Wingmaster factory safety.


Remington 870 Wingmaster factory safety.


Vang Comp Big Speed Safety installed on an 870 wingmaster.


Bottom view.


Wilson Combat jumbo safety on Remington 870 Express.


Wilson Combat jumbo safety on Remington 870 Express


Chapperjoe's stubby VFG.

Chokes and Ammo Choices
I don't believe in chokes for combat shotguns. Many people swear by Modified or IC chokes. I'm gonna defer to Old_Painless.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot44.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot45.htm

I really like the fancy Federal and Hornady buckshot, because they both use the same design of wad that really tightens groups. I only use 00 Buck. If they made a better #1 buck, I might use that. I don't like anything smaller than #1.Birdshot has no place in the defensive shotgun.

And rightwingnut's Defensive Shotgun Ammo:

Running the gun

Because the shotgun in inherently a low capacity weapon, to be fired more than a half dozen times, the shotgun needs constant reloading. A semiauto shotgun has less of an advantage over a pump action shotgun in a defensive situation, because the target must be acquired between shots. A pump shotgun can be fired at an almost constant rate, because you can fire, cycle the action, put a shell into the magazine, rinse and repeat.

A competent shotgunner should learn to run the pump well, pumping the slide as soon as you've pulled the trigger. The report and the sound of the gun cycling should be the same sound.

It shouldn't sound like *BOOM...CHUNK CHINK* *BOOM...CHUNK CHINK*

It should sound like *BOOMCHINK* BOOMCHINK*

And you ride the recoil, bringing the pump back with the recoil, and ramming the pump forward on the next target. Any target transitioning should take place at the same time as the action being cycling.

Like this:
View My Video

Most semiauto shotguns have an extra button or lever to unlock the shell lifter to reload the magazine. Unless modified, this puts the semiauto at a disadvantage if reloading is necessary. To keep the gun up a running, the shooter must learn to efficiently reload the shotgun while maintaining target awareness and keeping the shotgun well retained.

If the shotgun is run dry, the fastest way to get back into the fight is to turn the shotgun onto it's side, ejection port up, and drop a shell into the ejection port. With a pump, the action is closed as the shotgun is brought onto target. With an auto, the bolt release is usually the same device that unlocks the shell lifter. So, it is more efficient to drop a shell into the ejection port, then slide another shell into the magazine. This drops the bolt, and gives you a second shot, with no wasted motions.

This is things that any shotgun instructor worth his buffered buckshot will tell you.

A shotgun shooter must learn to constantly top off the magazine to stay in the fight.

Unless you're Hendricks5150 and you've outfitted your 26" barreled 870 with a +6 magazine extension, for an in gun capacity of 10+1!

Whoops, double tap.  Been having interweb problems here.

which +1 extension tube would you get?

there seems to be a variety out there...

is there one that's better than another or are they all pretty much the same?
$40-55 range

hey Guys, just picked up a new 870 along with a blackhawk spec ops folder.. I havent fired it yet as I am still not sure if I like the way it fits into my shoulder, i liked the idea about the reduced recoil and may swap it for their M4 style , any thoughts?

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SpecOps-Folder-Shotgun-Stock,1156,165.htm

any chance you have measurements for the length or your stocks off the gun?  I'm looking to shorten one, but I'd like to not have to put it on the gun, take it off, put it on...etc.  Also, how do put a recoil pad on your now shortened stock?

I couldn't agree more. After trying a bunch of different designs over the years, I prefer the regular setup too.


 

Picked up this for all of $50. Missing some parts but I'm gonna try and build myself something suitable to be posted in this thread.

I will post a write-up on shortening wood stocks soon. I already have the pictures.

Wow  mean machine.

I'll be in my bunk.

That thing is bad-ass.

Texas, any word on that write up for the stock shortening process?

waiting for the write up too

I would love to cut down my ATI Folder a couple of inches.. not sure how well Plastic Holds up..

Done!!!

I was wondering when someone was going to post one of those lol.

I have a stock Mossberg heat shield on my 500 and it doesn't weight that much at all. Yes it adds weight but doesn't feel like anything significant. Besides keeping your barrel from getting really hot it also allows you to add a rail assembly mounted on the bottom of it like this product:



I have this exact model on mine and it is awesome! Very convenient! I have a Surefire and a sling loop mounted on to it.

Hell yeah.





 

I have a Mossberg 500A
Does anyone make an (I'm guessing on the name of this part) extended action lock lever?
With a pistol grip stock on, the grip tends to get in the way of the pump release (what I'm calling the action lock lever) and it makes for a sketchy cocking in of a new round

I have really been eye balling the KSG and might just pull the trigger on one. I don't have a shotgun in my collection yet and try to keep things tactical so this is right up my alley. Anybody shot one of these yet or even handled one maybe at Shotshow, if so what did you think?

Thanks,
Kirch

Schwing!  

what did you all use to mount a sling on the rear of 870 leo folder

The PFS-87 Remington factory folding stock?

It has a OEM sling loop that goes in the hinge pin. I've made my own before, as well.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

thx I've been worried i couldn't find one

Eta: this is one i made with a cup swivel. It replaces the factory hinge pin.






Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I was trying to hunt down an uncle mike qd swivel. They made a model in the 90s that worked exactly like that.

I picked up a Speedfeed IV stock set on ebay a few years back.  I've noticed 2 issues with it.  The first is that their pistol grip just feels too skinny for my hand.  I've come to the conclusion that if I want that kind of stock one of the AR stock and grip conversions will be the way to go so I can pick a grip that fits my hand better.  The other, probably more serious issue is muscle memory.  With the pistol grip/shoulder stock combo, I keep trying to take the safety off with my thumb, just like I do with an AR.  Obviously this doesn't work very well on an 870.  With the regular stock I use my index finger for the safety just like my 10-22, Model 60, etc. all the way back to the BB gun I had when I was a kid.  It's a natural thing with that kind of stock, just as flicking a thumb safety is with a pistol gripped stock.

I've yet to see one.  I've been searching for about a year for one.  I saw a picture of one that someone welding an extension on straight down.  I'm planning on ordering a replacement Action Lock Lever and fabing up an extension the come out to the side to make it easier to actuate with your thumb on the pistol grip.  I'll post it when I get around to it in the new year.  It's such a simple part to modify.  People have been putting pistol grips on shotguns for years.  Why hasn't anyone come out with one yet?

Now that's sexy.. And KISS to boot.!! I'm not really a "shotgun guy" so I can't ID it from the darkish pic there.
What make/model is it and is it an NFA setup.?  Thanks.. d:^)  

What kind of Shotgun is this? Who Manufact?  It is sweet & compact!

KelTec KSG.

hey i was wondering if anyone uses their fighting shotguns for hunting?

Also if you do. Do you use the ghost sight or remove it to use just a bead?

Hunting what? Since shotguns are used to hunt everything from tiny birds all the way up to bear and even elk a little more info is needed.

For things like medium to large game such as deer, hog and black bear or, if you have your barrel threaded for choke tubes (I do and suggest others do too), turkey there is little you need to do to your gun (maybe a mag plug depending on season and game animal). If you are swapping barrels for a longer one then all birds are open to you too.

I have gone hog hunting with my current tac. shotgun a few times, they work fine for close to medium range shots (<50 yards) I have also taken my shotgun dove hunting as a backup and decided to try it with a Lt MOD choke. It worked OK, but that extra barrel length really does help when bird hunting.

Well looks like ill keep my 28" barrel.  I am mainly talking about deer and skeet.  

Also if you have  a ghost ring sight do you remove it for hunting?

I don't have any GRS but if I did I would leave them on for deer hunting (unless are scoping your shotgun at which point it wouldn't matter anyway). Obviously you should remove them when you switch to the 28 in. barrel for skeet and birds.

I ended up changing out my forearm to a Hogue, and it has a Mesa tactical 8 shell holder, and a larger safety button. I also added a Voodoo Tactical ammo pouch for the stock. When fully loaded I'm carrying 25 rounds of .00 buck.


 

I have a similar approach to my own 870; I already have the Mesa saddle (non-railed, 6 rounder) and the Hogue stock (black); I have the Wilson Combat GRSs and the Vangcomp Big Head Safety inbound and will have them installed as soon as they get home. Right now debating to either keep the Hogue or upgrade to a Magp SGA stock and replace the foregrip with a Surefire lighted one...

ETA - It's done...



All it needs now is to have it Cerakoted in FDE.

I see some really good looking and functional shottys.  I just recently picked up an 870 Tactical that has the breacher choke tube, XS sights, and 18" brl.  I am thinking that the Magpul Stock and forend may end up on it.  On the forend would it be feasible to have say a Streamlight TLR on it or would the forward/rear action of pumping cause a problem?  I want to also add a larger safety button.  I will be running a Aimpoint m4 until I can get a H1 or T1 on top.  Also what other chokes should I pick up.  Right now I have a 3 pt sling on it using a rear cuff and a Wilson front sling plate.  Eventually I will move to a 2 pt Vtac sling since I have one on my AR and love it.  Lastly, I see that there is a velcro shell holder––who makes that?

Sumoj275: For chokes, I have several, but the only ones I really use a lot are the imp-cyl, which stays in the gun about 95% of the time, and the imp-mod, which I use to tighten up patterns a bit when practicing with bird shot. Other than that, I have a extra-full, turkey choke that I've used maybe 4-5 times, and an open cylinder that I use as a baseline when trying out new ammo. As for the breacher choke, I haven't used one personally, but I've heard more than one person say that it can actually throw larger-than-open-choke patterns with some ammo. They do look wicked, though.

Also, congratulations on the new 870!

Excellent examples!

My 590A1 is my go to gun. It has already taken a few squirrels this year and hopefully will have some luck once deer and bear season opens. 20 inch barrel with GRS.

My 590A1 is also my HD/ hunting gun. Taking it out this weekend for Deer season! I have a SPX coming to that I might have a Choke system threaded for it so it's more multi purpose.

I'm still working on getting a rear sight for it

Any of you guys hear of Choate Machine & Tool? They make some really nice shotgun stocks that are fixed but you can add spacers and various butt pads to em to increase or decrease the LOP. I'm getting this one for my 870 soon and I'm very excited for it. They also make a longer version as well.

http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/SGS/01-01-38

Those are absolutely good to go. Very tough, no moving parts. Excellent stocks, even if they are ugly as hell.

Is there any real problem with installing a +3 extension on an 18.5" barrel?
Other than it sticking out a bit past the barrel?

The extra weight up front throws off the balance of the shotgun.

Nope...3 gun shooters do it all the time... that said, it's ugly.








 

I like the punisher logo on the stock. Great looking shotgun Marine.

Semper Fi



 

Come on now, they aren't THAT ugly!