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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:24:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Great article for those that are not as familiar with all the options on a 1911. http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2011/06/08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/ Wow. Great link. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:27:05 AM EDT
[#2]
1911 design is not for everyone, but it is for me.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:36:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1911 design is not for cheapskates or cry-babies, but real men can handle 'em... 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 9:58:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1911 design is not for everyone, but it is for me. Yep. Is this the article where he says "just get a Glock"? |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:12:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:21:08 AM EDT
[#6]
This just feeds the myth that every 1911 needs a thousand bucks worth of gunsmithing before it's reliable. This has not been the case for me. I've owned close to a hundred 1911s and maybe two have had major issues. Perhaps 10 have had minor issues like inconsistent lock back or something like that.
I look at it like owning a classic muscle car. Sure, you have to know how to set the timing and adjust the points, but it isn't difficult work if you know the theory and are at least a little mechanically inclined. If you just want a reliable, maintenance free daily driver, buy a Civic. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:26:27 AM EDT
[#7]
A MATCHBOOK AND A 1/2 WRENCH WILL GET YOU HOME.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:10:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Yep
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:25:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Interesting article.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:57:45 AM EDT
[#10]
I think part of the problem is people buying 1911's wanting both a match competition pistol and a day to day carry piece at the same time. The 1911 as it was originally designed worked just fine for at least 4 wars.
I'd argue that it's all the tuning and "refining" of the pistol that has made it so finicky and expensive in the first place. A Philippines manufactured Armscor/Rock Island Armory "Tactical" 1911 is plenty accurate and reliable while still being relatively affordable without needing extra tuning done. It even comes with a skeletonized trigger and extended beavertail. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:13:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Every gun writer in the business has written that same article.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:59:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Glock 19 is the answer.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:16:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock 19 is the answer. Not anymore. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:22:14 PM EDT
[#14]
By: Rob Curtis 06-08-2011 2011 called and it wants it's article back. 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:22:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just feeds the myth that every 1911 needs a thousand bucks worth of gunsmithing before it's reliable. This has not been the case for me. I've owned close to a hundred 1911s and maybe two have had major issues. Perhaps 10 have had minor issues like inconsistent lock back or something like that. I look at it like owning a classic muscle car. Sure, you have to know how to set the timing and adjust the points, but it isn't difficult work if you know the theory and are at least a little mechanically inclined. If you just want a reliable, maintenance free daily driver, buy a Civic. Colt started the myth and tends to proliferate it. There are better choices. I have owned plenty of 1911s, but EVERY Colt needed work, some quite extensive. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:41:27 PM EDT
[#16]
1911's.
I always read these articles listing the issues/problems with 1911s. Who knows, maybe someday I'll have one that has a problem and some of this stuff will help me. Ruger figured out how to stop galling many years ago. Use stainless steels of different grades (which S&W failed to do with their stainless revolvers - which is why my 686 has hard chromed hammer/trigger in an otherwise stainless steel gun). I don't know how Colt does it but my stainless steel Series 80 has always worked just fine. My grandpa and his brother carried 1911's in WW1. All his brother ever said about them was he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with one. He never complained about it not working. The trenches in France where a pretty wet/muddy/dirty place to fight. Many of my great uncles and their friends were in the Marines in WW2. They praised the M1 Garand and the 1911. Yes, every now and then a bad one gets out, in every brand/make. I've had more failures to fire out of my M&P 9MM in an afternoon than out of 4 Colt 1911's in over 30 years I've been shooting/carrying them. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:13:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1911's. I always read these articles listing the issues/problems with 1911s. Who knows, maybe someday I'll have one that has a problem and some of this stuff will help me. Ruger figured out how to stop galling many years ago. Use stainless steels of different grades (which S&W failed to do with their stainless revolvers - which is why my 686 has hard chromed hammer/trigger in an otherwise stainless steel gun). I don't know how Colt does it but my stainless steel Series 80 has always worked just fine. My grandpa and his brother carried 1911's in WW1. All his brother ever said about them was he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with one. He never complained about it not working. The trenches in France where a pretty wet/muddy/dirty place to fight. Many of my great uncles and their friends were in the Marines in WW2. They praised the M1 Garand and the 1911. Yes, every now and then a bad one gets out, in every brand/make. I've had more failures to fire out of my M&P 9MM in an afternoon than out of 4 Colt 1911's in over 30 years I've been shooting/carrying them. Let me guess: your 1911s haven't been modified into some kind of raceguns for matches. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:30:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Interesting read.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:39:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every gun writer in the business has written that same article. x 11teenBillion. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:53:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Oh, another article that's trying to tell me my TRP is defying the laws of physics and mechanical engineering because i've shot 3000 rounds in a row so far with zero hickups or FTEs.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:55:32 PM EDT
[#21]
My 1957 Mfg. M1927 Argentine (Colt licensed 1911A1) has yet to jam in the time I've owned it-the time my friend owned it-and since I've owned it again....about a decade in there somewhere
 . I've fired FMJ, plated, and hollowpoints-factory and my own reloads. Never steel case, and always quality magazines. Now it's not a tight fitting tack driver, it's 'clunky'. From what I've seen and read, I think there may be something to this. I'm not sure how tight of tolerances Mr. Browning intended this weapon to have? Perhaps someone may know more on this angle. I do realize the serial number before and after my example could have been absolute jamming POS's, I do realize that they are not Glock's however, no matter what the make. They are a weapon of a different era, that is certain.
ETA: I am not an authority, Vickers has far more rounds downrange than I. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:00:39 PM EDT
[#22]
As I understand it the issue with 1911's is simple. Get one made with quality parts with military clearances and you be fine. Go cheap or go for tight match grade parts, expect to put some work into it.
If your really want to be frustrated, do the work yourself. I still remember the guy showing off this 1911 at pistol match and talking about all the modifications he'd done himself. It might have gotten off 4-5 shots in a row without a malfunction. I'm sure there are lot of people qualified to do this work themselves, he wasn't one of them. I might by one, when my Glock 17 wears out. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:35:39 PM EDT
[#23]
I love 1911's and use one for daily carry.
I will not recommend one to someone buying their first, and only pistol. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:37:04 PM EDT
[#24]
1911s have been in constant production for over 100 years. The original manufacturer is still making them along with at least 1 dozen other companies. With myriad competitors, the 1911 is still the most popular combat handgun on the market. If it were not for police departments receiving massive discounts for purchase, the Glocks would not be nearly as prolific as they are.
If you do not like 1911s, then don't have one. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:39:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love 1911's and use one for daily carry. I will not recommend one to someone buying their first, and only pistol. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:41:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... If you do not like 1911s, then don't have one. Problem solved. But you won't stop liking what I don't like!!!! |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 5:00:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Larry Vickers new sponsor is Weight Watchers.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 5:12:09 PM EDT
[#28]
I better not tell my Taurus PT1911 about this or it'll stop working every time I pull the trigger.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 5:13:38 PM EDT
[#29]
I guess it's a natural progression. First Hilton and now Larry...I guess building them makes you appreciate the finer Tupperware out there.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:19:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Larry Vickers new sponsor is Weight Watchers.  That's the best you've got? You're years behind everyone else.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:38:11 PM EDT
[#31]
I guess I forgot to drop a grand on my SR1911 before putting close to 5k trouble free rounds through it
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:23:32 PM EDT
[#32]
So much fail in one article.
I used to own a Glock (G20). No amount of gunsmithing in the world would have made the trigger even halfway decent. It was replaced by a Delta Elite long ago. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:10:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So much fail in one article. I used to own a Glock (G20). No amount of gunsmithing in the world would have made the trigger even halfway decent. It was replaced by a Delta Elite long ago. The article is from one of the premier 1911 guys in America, if not the world. Whether not you agree with him, it's not like he doesn't have the background and experience to make his assertion(s). Fairly, I think we can all agree that LAV, love him or not, has a ton of experience with the 1911 and it's ins and outs. Put aside your (our) personal opinions with our personal guns and listen to a guy who's done this, not only for a living, but a profession. I'd argue that he has more knowledge base and experience to make his argument than you and I. I think some people get wrapped around their own guns/limited personal experiences. I owned a TRP with zero issues....it doesn't mean the 1911 as a whole can be problematic. Just like my G19's and M4's have been awesome....but some have had nothing but problems with them. I'm not a LAV nuthugger but I 100% respect and admire the man's experiences and background. Objectively, there's not many people who can mirror it. But again, this article is from 20fucking11......it is nothing new or ground breaking, what he said. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:22:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryI have fixed my own laserjet printer.... How hard could a 1911 be?  FWIW, I've sent Novak my slides, since I know how well they cut dovetails.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:40:55 PM EDT
[#35]
After 30 years of shooting and competing my Series 70 finally broke an extractor. Other than that none of my Colts have ever had a FTF. I must be a wizard
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:10:41 AM EDT
[#36]
I'll start by saying that my own personal pistol is a SA mil-spec base gun built up by the SACS custom shop. It has some basic ergonomic upgrades like a beaver tail and an ambi thumb safety. I had them fit their match grade barrel and a few after market parts I supplied. Anyways, I think personally if we we could magically go back in time and transfer all the A1 military issue pistols to present day and just have ergo upgrades like beaver tails and sight upgrades like novaks or whatever we personally prefer, things would be different. The only thing people would complain about is mag capacity. If that's your complaint, run a glock (which I love too) or any other vetted polymer pistol you love( or a ergo'd high power or cz
 ). The custom and semi custom 1911 world is both a blessing and a curse. I'm a 1911 guy. I shoot mine well and will prolly never part with mine since it's a personal gun made to fit me. Most people these days expect their xyz 1911 to be a be a be all, end all pistol. It was, in a sense, when the A1 appeared, but people expect alot from their xyz 1911 and manf have responded with excellent factory guns, semi customs, and full customs. The 1911, like any weapon, is more then just the firearm itself. It's a system that includes mags and ammo. JMB had a good thing with the 1911 and even better with the A1. Take each gun as it is comes and go from there.That's any gun actually. Some run, some don't. If yours does, awesome, if it doesn't, send it back.
I've been drinking tonight  so I'll stop my rambling by saying the 1911 platform can require work and money to to run, but in today's day and age, it shouldn't be a common thing. Go buy a SA loaded, colt rail gun, Wilson cqb, etc, and buy some good mags and have fun! Don't flame me for my drunk rambling post. It's technically my first for arfcom.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 1:00:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colt started the myth and tends to proliferate it. There are better choices. I have owned plenty of 1911s, but EVERY Colt needed work, some quite extensive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This just feeds the myth that every 1911 needs a thousand bucks worth of gunsmithing before it's reliable. This has not been the case for me. I've owned close to a hundred 1911s and maybe two have had major issues. Perhaps 10 have had minor issues like inconsistent lock back or something like that. I look at it like owning a classic muscle car. Sure, you have to know how to set the timing and adjust the points, but it isn't difficult work if you know the theory and are at least a little mechanically inclined. If you just want a reliable, maintenance free daily driver, buy a Civic. And I have owned plenty of Colt 1911s (still do) and only a couple needed minor work. So much for "better choices" and all-encompassing comments.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 2:26:59 AM EDT
[#38]
I looked at a lightly used Colt Govt Elite yesterday. Was around $800.00, was tempted, wouldn't have changed a thing on it if I had bought it. Locked up nicely, not to tight, and had a good trigger for a factory 1911.
Still waiting on my "cheap'' Colt 1991 to miss a beat, my G19 has had two bobbles in less rounds then my 1991 has had through it. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 3:09:18 AM EDT
[#39]
the 1911 I used while on active duty sounded like a box of rocks when you shook it. No telling how old the thing was or how many thousands of rounds it had fired. Never gave me any problems and went bang every time I pulled the trigger.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 4:53:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”
This bears repeating again. That being said, Ive never had trouble out of several Kimbers. But have had troubles out of some Springfields and a Colt and a Para Ord. And don't get me started on my first 1911.......a Llama. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 5:37:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...And don't get me started on my first 1911.......a Llama. A Llama isn't a 1911. It may be similar in appearance but it isn't. Sorta like a Ballester Molina |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 2:22:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.” This bears repeating again. That being said, Ive never had trouble out of several Kimbers. But have had troubles out of some Springfields and a Colt and a Para Ord. And don't get me started on my first 1911.......a Llama. Vikers quote is nonsense. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 2:52:58 PM EDT
[#43]
There's no arguing that Larry Vickers is an expert on many guns including the 1911 and I absolutely agree that a Glock is a much simpler design but it really depends on what requirements your using for your comparison. I love my G21, its about as basic a design as a handgun could be but if I could only have one .45acp handgun and had to choose between my STI Elektra 1911 or my G21 for carrying/defense in a civilian world I'll keep my 1911 because it's more concealable, comfortable to shoot, accurate in addition to being perfectly reliable. If I were going into battle where I may face multiple enemies I'd probably take my G21 because it's higher capacity and durability. Just depends on the situation.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 3:00:23 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 8/20/2014 3:06:32 PM EDT
[#45]
It's hard for me to take him seriously when he looks like a teletubbie without the costume.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 6:40:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 8:29:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's hard for me to take him seriously when he looks like a teletubbie without the costume. http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Larry-Vickers-The-LAV.jpg http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608047737348228676&w=392&h=220&c=7&p=0&pid=1.7
If that's the way you go, then you should ignore a vast majority of Arfcom....much less than the rest of America. Agree or disagree with Larry Vickers, the man was in one of America's premier combat units for a long time. His name has been synonymous with 1911's and excellence for a long time. He has a legitimate background to base his opinion from, and it's more than a couple personally owned weapons. If you're going to dispute him, try to be a little more critical than the weight he gained after retiring (and post a picture/resume of yourself and your military/LEO/etc experience). |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:13:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that's the way you go, then you should ignore a vast majority of Arfcom....much less than the rest of America. Agree or disagree with Larry Vickers, the man was in one of America's premier combat units for a long time. His name has been synonymous with 1911's and excellence for a long time. He has a legitimate background to base his opinion from, and it's more than a couple personally owned weapons. If you're going to dispute him, try to be a little more critical than the weight he gained after retiring (and post a picture/resume of yourself and your military/LEO/etc experience). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's hard for me to take him seriously when he looks like a teletubbie without the costume. http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Larry-Vickers-The-LAV.jpg http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608047737348228676&w=392&h=220&c=7&p=0&pid=1.7 Although I have no need to disparage Mr. Vickers (or Mr. Yam), both have been leading a charge to get rid of the 1911 lately for whatever reason. That said, I have real problems with Vicker's comment that "If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.” That's, simply, not true. Of course, he may be going to some 'smith that charges that much or it may be what he would charge to do it but I know, for damn sure, that I can get it done for much less if need be. Also, Gearscout's comment that "Even a $2,000 semi-custom 1911 likely will need a pricey trip to a gunsmith for tweaking." is in the same league as the Vicker's quote. Come on, boys. You are going to have to do better than that as those comments make me wonder a little if you have based them on experience or some lesser motivation. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 3:45:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Did everyone get their pitchforks out in 2011?
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Posted: 8/21/2014 3:52:58 AM EDT
[#50]
While this is an old article and I am late to the party, my only 1911 (a Colt), required a $15 part to get it 100%. Otherwise it had a failure rate of 0.005% (undersized firing pin stop). Had I not read up on such things beforehand it certainly could have cost me dearly. I've been shooting it for over fifteen years since then without a single stoppage or malfunction in thousands of rounds. I even installed several aftermarket parts which aside from a match barrel are all ergonomic and preferential mods.
Even after destroying the frame and replacing it on my own it is still better than ever. Most of those guys who own Glocks end up putting a ton of unnecessary parts and tuning into it. What's the difference other than one requires simple fitting? Look after the extractor tension and replace the recoil spring when needed. There is no voodoo or custom gunsmith necessary. The only thing I recommend to people is to buy the one you want as modifying it is only as successful as the person doing the work and good work is rarely cheap. |
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