There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about the 1911s currently in service with the United States Marine Corps, commonly referred to by enthusiasts as "MEU(SOC) 1911's."  These pistols have always interested me, and they represent for many the paradigm of a no-bullshit combat pistol for use in real world gunfights.  Many, including myself, have been influenced and inspired by them to either build replicas and/or integrate ideas from them into their own pistols (or in my case, both! ).  Yet a lot of the information and speculation that floats around the internets is conflicting, confusing, or simply erroneous.  I have been interested in the modern combat 1911 for quite some time now, and I've tried to research these pistols and de-conflict some of rumors about these pistols that have reached an almost semi-cult status amongst enthusiasts.  

Before I begin, a couple of caveats:  

a) I make no claim to "know it all" about these pistols, what follows is my interpretation based on my own limited research, most of which has been conducted on the internet, trying to get to the bottom of the "MEU(SOC) 1911."  I can be wrong, I can freely admit to it, and do not mind it being pointed out, however, I have in the past had a bit of an academic streak, so conflicting opinions should be presented in an academic manner, preferably with evidence to back it up that is more substantial than "my cousin's brother's wife's mother's brother in law was a Force Recon Marine, and he said..."  First hand knowledge is, of course, always appreciated, if it is provided by a reliable and knowledgeable source, but with the caution that the study of history is riddled with completely specious "eyewitness accounts."    

b) I am not a Marine, I have never been a Marine, and most likely never will be a Marine, I have a little bit of professional exposure to them, but I am not a subject matter expert on the Marine Corps, and as such, my understanding of some of the inner workings of the Marine Corps with regards to their units and organization may be a little fuzzy or slightly inaccurate, especially considering the difficult to pin down (often even for active duty Marines themselves) Marine special operations components.  Any errors or omissions I make in my descriptions, I encourage those who know better and who can offer clarification to do so.  Again, not being a Marine, my interest is in the continued use of the 1911 nearly a century after its adoption as a front line combat pistol and the pistol itself, and therefore more equipment based, so I may be unclear on many of the details surrounding the units that use them.  

c) This is about 1911 style pistols used by specialty combat units of the Marine Corps after the adoption of the M9 as the standard service pistol of the military, it is not about historical use of the M1911A1, pistols used in competitions, pistols used by Army Special Forces or other military units, personally built or preferred configurations of various operators from the Special Operations community, it is about issued pistols used by a very small fraction of Marine combat units.

d) This is a rough draft of what I hope will be a much better reference on these pistols, and it is being posted as much as a back-check to see if any more information might surface in an open forum, but most of what is posted comes from documented information that I'd like to eventually provide references for and that will have a good selection of photo references as well.  Most of the information and references come from open sources.  I do not personally have any "inside track" information or "know somebody that knows somebody."

Text UNDER photographs in italics are captions.    

The MEU(SOC) .45

The MEU(SOC) .45 is probably the most commonly heard about and probably the most confusing of the 1911 style pistols used since the official adoption of the M9.  It is commonly known by names such as "MEU(SOC) 1911, MEU(SOC) Pistol" as well, and these titles are also the name which is commonly affixed to all "modern-era" Marine Corps 1911s, whether it is appropriate or not.  The question of nomenclature is a difficult one when applied to these weapons.  Unlike other military-issue weapons, as far as I can tell, modern Marine Corps 1911s have not been given an official designation.  I have not seen any official documentation that they have ever been issued either an "M" series number, or an MK or Mk. number.  Nevertheless, they need to be called something, but what is the proper term?  Originally when the Force Reconnaissance companies elected to keep the 1911 rather than transition to the M9, the pistols they were using were old USGI M1911-A1s, however, the pistols that the armorers at PWS would go on to build would be significantly different than the original M1911-A1, and needed to be differentiated.  

By at least 1994, it seems that the Marines had settled on "Pistol, Caliber .45, MEU(SOC)" or "MEU(SOC) .45 Caliber Pistol" as their official unofficial name for the pistol, at least that is the name given in, and the way the pistol is referred to in TM 00526A-24&P/2, dated August 1994: ORGANIZATIONAL AND INTERMEDIATE MAINTENANCE MANUAL INCLUDING REPAIR PARTS LIST Pistol, Caliber .45, MEU(SOC).  Thus, despite the debate over whether or not using "MEU(SOC)" or "MEU" to describe the pistol when the majority of the MEU(SOC) Marines *did not* carry a 1911 variant, to me the "MEU(SOC) .45" nomenclature seems to be most appropriate given that it is the name the Marines used themselves to describe the pistol in their own maintenance manual, and it is what I will use.  

The MEU(SOC) .45s were originally USGI M1911-A1s rebuilt by the armorers at Precision Weapons Systems, PWS in Quantico, basically the Marine Corps' version of NSWC Crane and the AMU.  When the military as a whole decided to transition to the M9 from the M1911-A1, the Force Reconnaissance companies that were attached to the Marine Expeditionary Units (Special Operations Capable) or MEU(SOC)s elected and fought to keep their 1911s rather than use the newfangled M9s.  How long and how extensively PWS had been modifying the standard M1911-A1s for these units prior to this time, I am unsure of, though I'm certain they probably received some work and modifications.    

It is important to note at this time too, what the MEU(SOC) .45 is.  It is a sidearm designed to be a secondary weapon to a Force Recon Marine's M4A1 Carbine, the long gun being the real workhorse of the warfighter, whether issued an M9 or 1911 or none at all.  Most of the questions I see asked are about the configuration of the MEU(SOC) .45, whether by the curious or by those wanting to build replicas, or just trying to get an idea of what a professional fighting pistol is.  Unfortunately, for many people this becomes an extremely confusing question.  The reason for this is that the MEU(SOC) .45 specs were evolutionary, and spanned over a period of roughly twenty years, and some of the specifications were gradually changed, based sometimes on the availability of parts and better parts being introduced to the market.  The specs for the MEU(SOC) .45 drew largely on the availability of COTS (Commercial Off the Shelf) parts as well, and the pistols were built individually by the armorers at PWS.  Some people, however, tend to see these evolving specs and the availability of COTS parts a license for an "anything goes" attitude about what constitutes a MEU(SOC) .45 replica, having a free-for-all with parts and trying to call just about anything that wears a set of Pachmayr grips a "MEU(SOC)."  Unfortunately, there actually seems to be a great deal of consistency in the way MEU(SOC) .45s were built if you realize that the pistols are the product of many many overhauls at different times while the specs were continuing to evolve.  And while it is possible, probable even, that occaisionally, "non standard" parts were substituted off the shelf based on availability, the contention that no clear specifications existed for how the pistols should be configured and built is preposterous, particularly considering that several parts lists of varying dates have been published.  

The only other concession to the point of view that any COTS part is acceptable is that due to the fact that the MEU(SOC) .45s were built by PWS, they were officially required to return to PWS for anything above operator level maintenance, however, for a deployed unit, shipping a pistol back to Quantico for repairs was not a very pleasing option, and there are reports that they have often bought bench stock and repair parts and conducted repairs out of the Brownell's catalog while downrange.  

Nevertheless, for the "typical" MEU(SOC) .45, if there's not one single spec, there's a clear set of parameters for what is and what is not when talking about MEU(SOC) replicas, MEU(SOC)-ish, and MEU(SOC) inspired pistols, with the latter two being far more liberal descriptions.  

I suspect, with little foundation, that the original MEU(SOC) .45s were little more than modified M1911-A1s rebuilt using some COTS parts and existing bench stock, and probably NM slides and barrels were used as well, and while there were still many pistols still floating around in inventories and ample bench stock available this probably sufficed.  One way or another, some of the earliest seem to have been built using USGI slides with vertical cocking serrations.  The pistols with vertical cocking serrations are probably among the earliest built and most rarely seen.  Despite the popularity in replicas, even ones very very close to MEU(SOC) .45 specs, I have never seen any evidence to suggest vertical front cocking serrations on any of these pistols, and believe that if such animals exist they are extremely small in numbers and quite exceptional.    

By the 1990's a consistent standard applies itself.  For convenience, I will refer to them as "Variant 1."  As a disclaimer, these variant designations are entirely my own, and are somewhat flexible, as features often cross between variants, but always consistently, i.e. a Variant 2 pistol could have been repaired at PWS long after it was built, and therefore exhibit some Variant 4 features.  The Variant 1 pistols used then current Springfield Armory GI Milspec-style slides with slanted rear cocking serrations only and the crossed cannon logo behind the ejection port.  Also, these earliest variants had ejection ports that were slightly lowered and not flared.  Variant 1 seems to have been built using slides manufactured at least prior to 1987, I have not yet tried to determine the exact date that Springfield Armory moved the crossed cannon motif from behind the ejection port to forward of it, however a 1987 dated article on the Gunsite Service Pistol shows that Springfield Armory was already producing their slides with the forward crossed cannon logo and "modern" lowered and flared ejection port.  This is no guarantee, however of the date the pistols themselves were built, only of when the slides were produced. The grip safety was the Clark grip safety, while the hammer was a Commander style ring hammer, with a circular hole in the center.  I have heard second hand from different sources, some claiming that they were Colt Commander hammers, some that they were MGW hammers.  Barrels were BarSto.  

The sights on the early MEU(SOC) .45s were distinctive as well.  The front sight being used at the time was a Millett stake on front with a custom rear sight to fit the standard dovetail designed by PWS, with a flat angled rear plane and a wide notch.  Dave Berryhill has stated that the front sights used were the .224 height, making them fairly tall, high profile sights that could also be used for a secondary function of charging the pistol one handed.  The thumb safety of choice was the King's 201A ambidextrous thumb safety, currently out of production, but still highly sought after as it did not use the more common Swenson style "tang" that needed to be captured under recessed grip panels, but an oversized hammer pin that fit into a dovetail on the right side safety.  

The grips were the common and probably the most recognized feature of the MEU(SOC) .45, Pachmayr G45 rubber wraparound combat grips, and even the earliest ones appear to have used the medallion.  The mainspring housing was a standard GI arched mainspring housing with the lanyard loop ground flat and serrated, while the trigger was a long, three hole aluminum match trigger.  The Variant 1 was also the "type specimen" illustrated in the general arrangement drawings of the MEU(SOC) .45 TM.  The Variant 1 set many of the basic specifications, and even in the 1994 dated TM, they list Brownell's as well as a "Wilson Gun Shop" of Berryville, AR as parts suppliers.  Variant 1 also established the use of 18.5" recoil springs and Shok-Bufs.  Most MEU(SOC) .45s seem to have checkered magazine release buttons as well, most likely original parts and/or available bench stock, and also very commonly display (when such details are visible) checkered slide stops, though serrated ones are not unusual.  



Notice the taped down grip safety.

     





Variants 2 and 3 appear commonly seen and documented in photographs of MEU(SOC) .45s, and are similar to the Variant 1, however, they introduced the newer production Springfield Armory slide with the crossed cannon insignia forward on the slide above the dustcover and the modern lowered and flared ejection port style.  The Variant 2 had rear cocking serrations only while the Variant 3 introduced the front cocking serrations in the matching narrow angled style of the rear serrations used today on the Springfield Armory Milspec pistols.  Based on conversations with Dave Berryhill, he indicates that the MEU(SOC) .45s had standard GI ejectors and beveled magwells.  Other than the slides, the Variant 2 and Variant 3 seem to have retained the features of the Variant 1.  



A good photograph of "typical" examples of both Variants 2 and 3.  



Variant 3's in service in a 2006 dated photograph.  

The first really significant changes to the MEU(SOC) .45 specs come with the Variant 4 which introduces several departures from earlier variants.  Most significantly, it introduces the Novak ultra low mount dovetail front and rear sights, replacing the staked on Millett front and PWS rear sight.  It does not appear that Variant 4 had night sights installed as standard and used a .180 height front sight, part numbers LMC01 and DFS02-3.180 from Novak.  The new slides with Novak cuts are again provided primarily from Springfield Armory, however, these slides now have the wide angled front and rear cocking serrations used on the Springfield Loaded.  Variant 4 also introduces the Ed Brown Memory Groove grip safety to replace the Clark grip safety with the pronounced bump that has become common to ensure positive disengagement of the safety.  







During the production of Variant 4, it also appears that the hammer was changed from the Colt Commander style ring hammer, to a Cylinder and Slide hammer with an elongated hole.



Here a photograph of a MEU(SOC) .45 shows the blackened barrel and Shok-Buf installed.  

Variant 4 production also seems to be when PWS began sourcing slides and possibly a limited number of frames from Caspian, and Variant 4 is by far one of the most well documented variants, as several full parts lists exist listing specific vendors and part numbers.  



In this photo you can see what may be a Caspian slide being used on a Variant 4 pistol, notice the different profile of the front cocking serrations, distinctive to the ones usually seen on both Variant 3 and Springfield slide Variant 4 pistols.  The cocking serrations also do not appear to be the wider ones used on Springfield Armory slides, though one cannot dismiss the possibility that it may have been an updated Variant 1 or 2 slide with front cocking serrations milled in later.  It can also be seen in service side by side with an earlier Variant 1 or 2 pistol.

According to Pat Rogers, the decision to switch to the Novak sights was as simple as the operators preferring them to other options available, including, it seems, the PWS sight.  The tail end of Variant 4 production also coincides with the creation of MCSOCOM, and greater variation and demand for the MEU(SOC) .45 as the Marine Corps was reorganizing their force structure and creating the MSOBs.  Furthermore, during Variant 4 production, King's Gunworks also ceased production of the 201A ambidextrous thumb safety.  

A statement of work for COTS parts for MEU(SOC) .45 production dated at least after 27 SEP 2007 (the text references a document published that date) lists the components of the Variant 4 as:

Part Nomenclature                                        Part Number                      Manufacturer
Grips                                                                692-545-145                      Pachmayer
Grip Safety                                                      087-867-000                      Ed Brown
Trigger                                                              CS181                              Cylinder & Slide
Service Pack w/18.5 lbs recoil (spring set)     69141                              Wolff
Front Sight Pin                                                  080-519-025                      Brownells
Shok Buff                                                         965-002-004                      Wilson Combat
Hammer, sear & disconnector                          CS271                              Cylinder & Slide
Thumb Safety                                                   201-A                              Kings
Slide                                                                  PX4546                             Springfield
Rear Sight                                                         PI5127M                            Springfield
Front Sight                                                        PI5017                               Springfield
Rear Sight Set Screw                                      05535000                          MSC
Mainspring Housing                                          MSH LOOP                        Caspian
Extractor                                                           EXT 45                              Caspian
Magazine Catch                                                R91B                                 Caspian
Grip Screw                                                       080-569-004                     Brownells
Grip Screw Bushing                                         080-568-004                     Brownells
Hammer Strut                                                    087-823-000                     Ed Brown
Magazine Catch Lock                                       CS130B                             Cylinder & Slide
Pin Kit Complete                                                CS014                               Cylinder & Slide

Interesting to see in this listing is the fact that sights are now Springfield Armory manufacture, what some have called "faux-vaks," rather than actual Novak sights (listed by part number on older spec sheets).  I have not yet been able to verify whether those parts numbers correspond to black sights (like the Novaks specified), three dot sights, or night sights.  Also, this list does not seem to specify the manufacture of the slide stop, nor the barrel, as well as some other small parts (Other documents show those parts to be Caspian and BarSto respectively).  

The final and most current variant of the MEU(SOC) .45 appears to be the Variant 5, which seems to be almost identical to the Variant 4, however it now uses the Ed Brown Wide ambidextrous thumb safety as a replacement for the out of production King's 201A unit.  The Ed Brown safety, however, is a Swenson style safety with the tang riding under the right grip panel, newer production examples of the Pachmayr wraparound grips now have the recess to allow for the use of the Swenson style safety from the factory and do not require modification of the stock grips, though older examples were not recessed for the Swenson style safety.  Below is a 25 JUN 2009 dated parts list for the MEU(SOC) .45:                  

Part Nomenclature                                               Manufacturer                                  Part Number
Barrel W/link, pin & Bushing                                    BAR-STO                                         DBBL&P45
Front Sight Pin                                                         Brownells                                        080-519-025
Grip Screw Bushing                                               Brownells                                         080-568-004
Grip Screw                                                             Brownells                                         080-569-004
Firing Pin Stop                                                         Caspian                                            S2045B
Slide Stop Pin                                                          Caspian                                            R111B
Manspring Housing                                                 Caspian                                            R42FBL
Plunger Tube                                                           Caspian                                            R121B
Magazine Catch                                                       Caspian                                           R91B
Extractor                                                                  Caspian                                           S18457B
Pin Kit Complete                                                       Cylinder & Slide                               CS014
Magazine Catch Lock                                              Cylinder & Slide                               CS130B
Ejector                                                                      Cylinder & Slide                               CS136B
Trigger                                                                      Cylinder & Slide                               CS181
Hammer, sear & disconnector                                  Cylinder & Slide                               CS271B
Hammer Strut                                                            Ed Brown                                        R823
Firing Pin                                                                    Ed Brown                                        R824
Grip Safety                                                                Ed Brown                                        R867
Recoil Spring Plug                                                      Ed Brown                                        R881-STD
Recoil Spring Guide                                                   Ed Brown                                        R882-STD
Safety, Ambidextrous,Wide                                       Ed Brown                                       R892
Rear Sight Set Screw                                               MSC                                                 05535000
Front Sight                                                                  Novak                                             DFS02-3-180
Rear Sight                                                                   Novak                                             LMC01
Grips                                                                          Pachmayer                                      692-545-145
Slide                                                                           Springfield                                       PX4546
Shok Buffer                                                               Wilson Combat                                 965-002-004
Magazine                                                                   Wilson Combat                                 965-047-470
Service Pack (full spring set)w/18.5LBS                  Wolff                                                69141

Note that this Variant 5 parts list returns to and lists Novak part numbers for the front and rear sights.  Also note that this parts list was attached to a RFI for "COTS receiver for use in building USMC MEU(SOC) .45 caliber pistols" dated 06 JUL 2009 with a suspense date of NLT 27 JUL, making this probably the most current parts list currently available for public consumption.  It also came with a detailed PDF file including this image:



Which clearly describes an M1911-A1 frame without provisions for an integral rail and with a beveled magwell.  Listed as an "interested vendor" is Caspian Arms of Wolcott, VT (surprise, surprise).  It would see, at least as of this July, that the MEU(SOC) .45 was still a live project.  The language of the RFI,seems to imply that MARSYSCOM (Marine Corps Systems Command) is considering the possibility of widespread use of commercially produced frames in the MEU(SOC) .45 program.  

"This Request for Information (RFI) is the initiation of market research under Part 10 of the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR), and is not a request for Proposals (RFP). The Government does not intend to pay for any information furnished pursuant to this RFI.

The Program Manager for Infantry Weapons (PM IW), Marine Corps Systems Command is conducting a market survey to determine industry's capability to provide a COTS receiver for use in building USMC MEU(SOC) .45 caliber pistols. The proposed solution should possess the attributes listed in the attachments. This RFI is issued to allow industry the opportunity to review the narrative and provide any comments, questions, or feedback to Marine Corps Systems Command. Comments/Questions/Responses are due not later than 1400 EST on Monday, 27 July 2009. Electronic submissions are required. Interested sources should send all correspondence via email to xxxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. THE SUBMISSION OF THIS INFORMATION IS FOR PLANNING PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS A COMMITMENT BY THE GOVERNMENT TO PROCURE ANY ITEMS OR SERVICES. NO SOLICITATION DOCUMENT EXISTS FOR THIS EFFORT."          
(emphasis in bold is mine)

However, it also seems to imply that this has not yet been done on a large scale and they have not even decided whether or not to do so, which would seem to make rumors of Caspian produced frames and integral rail dustcover frames that have been floating around dubious.  That is not to say that such things have not been done or tried on a small, prototype basis, it does not seem to imply that MARSYSCOM has purchased any significant quantity of commercial frames before, nor that they are particularly interested in a railed frame version of the MEU(SOC) .45 (Springfield MC Operator, anyone?).  Needless to say, it would seem that the incidence of commercially produced or railed frame pistols in combat service, if any, would be an extremely small percentage compared to the number currently in service utilizing USGI frames.

It would also seem that this request was very shortly thereafter followed by a request for 1,800 1911-style pistol slides, as well, however, that requested was not made for the MEU(SOC) .45, it was made for what may or may not be a different weapon system known as the "M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol."  I will go into more detail on this request on the section on the M45 CQC.  The MEU(SOC) .45 is a very very interesting weapon in my opinion.  While the Springfield Professional may be the most officially and scientifically tested modern service 1911-style pistol in existence, I would argue that the MEU(SOC) .45 is probably the most vetted service 1911 there is, given the high OPTEMPO of the units issued the pistol, and of the military in general these last few years, coupled with the fact that the vast majority of these pistols are built on frames manufactured in 1945 *at the latest* leads me to believe no part in the MEU(SOC) .45 is an accident, and while a person might not agree for personal reason about small details in their construction, and understanding that they are built as *general (to the units issued them) issue sidearms* and not as highly customized guns intended for a single user, I have no reason to believe that they have not been built to withstand the utmost of what a combat pistol should be expected to face in terms of durability, reliability, and longevity under harsh conditions and high round counts.      

Ironically enough, and a good way to bookend the story of the MEU(SOC) .45, is this attachment to the same RFI, dated 16 JAN 2004 which, unlike the diagrams included in the RFI, seem to imply interest in an integral railed frame, but it also gives a good idea of what the Marines were looking for in the MEU(SOC) .45.

1.  Must be able to adapt to current and future optical/elector-optical technologies via the Mil Standard 1913 rail.

2.  Must be capable of eight (seven in magazine, one in chamber) well-aimed shots before magazine reload.

3.  Must be capable of firing military system procured DODIC A475, 230 grain .45 caliber Service Ball ammunition.

4.  Must be one-man portable for deployment and employment.

5.  Must be easily adaptable for both daytime and nighttime operations.

6.  Must allow for rapid removal and installation of optical/electro-optical sighting devices.

7.  Must have a non-reflective finish on both the weapon and sighting device.

8.  Must be capable of airborne insertion with parachutists and waterborne insertion, after waterproofing, with divers and small boat.

9.  Must be impervious to 48 hours exposure to high salt content sea water and resistant to abrasion caused by normal use.

10.  Must have an external magazine capacity of seven rounds.

11.  Must incorporate a manual safety.

12.  Must incorporate failure resistant hardened parts where possible throughout.

13.  Must be capable of repair at organizational maintenance with few exceptions.

14.  The weapon shall demonstrate the ability to meet or exceed mean rounds between stoppages of 300 rounds threshold , 900 rounds objective.

Service Use and Accessories

The Springfield Armory Professional

The Kimber Interim Close Quarters Battle pistol (ICQB)

The M45 Close Quarters Combat pistol

Clone Builder's Guide


more to come!

A couple of teasers:







~Augee

Does anyone know if the m45a1's currently being sent to the Marines include the USMC rollmark?

Also do you like the new Ionbond coating they have switched to?

:flag:

I am not 100% certain, but I would guess that if the USMC requested that USMC roll marks be removed for civilian production, then I doubt they would have adopted anything other than that rollmark.

The ion bonded USMC marked test guns I received pictures of seem to support this (Page 77)

Personally, I like ion bond. It is very durable and a nice finish. As far as staying on, it seems to perform significantly better than the cerakote.

Hey guys,
I sent off three barsto barrels to a friend of mine to get them blued, there were also three PWS rear sights. When the package arrived at his house in VA it had been ripped open and nothing was inside but the letter I had sent along with the barrels. Please let me know if you see barrels for sale anywhere that are stamped with the serial numbers and PWS-P or the sights.  Thanks for helping me!

Ben

Got some eye candy for you guys, sorry for the crappy focus but we don't have these any more sadly after the crappy colts showed up and I just remembered they were on a hard drive. But can you guys give me more info on these, they felt brand new when we got them.


































Well I trying to get the images to work, links are correct
 

Awesome pictures! That looks to be the latest variant M45 pistol parts-wise with the exception of the Caspian frame. That appears to be a WWII era frame.
Oddly enough, most of the builds I have seen with those frames still used the Kings 201A. Also worth noting is that the front sight looks to be an actual Novak rather than the Springfield serrated I have seen on most loaded/operator slides.  

Love the eye candy.  Looks like a mix between a MEU(SOC) and an M45.  If you have anymore of the eye candy please post.  If I had a choice between one of these and the Colt I would definitely choose the M45  There is something that is awesome about being hand built by the best.  Still love the Colt.  Had a chance to handle one on deployment they are nice.  But I would take the hand built master piece everyday all day.

the USMC has not gotten any M45A1 marked   Colts since the change over yet.   as of about the end of November,  that info is correct,   the next batch to go to the Marines with the new M45A1 roll mark had not shipped yet as of  the end of november

Somebody buy this http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=536162188

What are the stickers I see on some in some of the pictures of the genuine articles?

IUID with a data matrix with serial number.

Who make holsters for the Colt CQB M45? I'll be receiving one next week and I'm turning up squat at my normal sources.

Safariland, Raven Concealment, and First Spear.

I have a lefty Safariland M45A1 NSN non-light holster that'll go up for sale tomorrow, actually. Thanks for reminding me to get off my buttstock and get it done.

S/F

Thanks!

I just dropped a partial parts kit in the EE (Springfield slide, PWS rear sight, Millett front, and Clark grip safety) if anyone is looking to get a build started.

Just ordered a holster and belt from First Spear. Thanks again for the suggestion. Exactly why I asked.

Just finished my most recent build.  It never gets old!

Ben

Nowhere near as unique as the above, but still nice

A clark replacement or any of you crafty people http://www.ebay.com/itm/281933778647?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited-joker581 Please do not promote your EE ads in the other forums.

So, if I wanted to be 100% correct, would a Springfield frame be correct for a Variant 5-ish gun?

No, you would want to use USGI or a Caspian frame. Springfield only supplied slides and sights.

Damn. Caspian is a no-go in California. However... USGI might be worthwhile.

My idea was to get a Springfield Loaded, and just build off of that over time.

I figure that's easier than sourcing a GI frame, and a mil spec or Loaded style slide.

I'm asking also because I saw a few Springfield frames on genuine guns in this thread.

Lots of guys use complete Springfields as its an easy route. As far as actual M45's Springfield built 150 as a unit purchase during the ICQB timeframe. Here is a post on those pistols https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=116266

In other news a stainless King's 201a sold for $295 last night on eBay I'd gladly sell mine for that.

IMO do the Springfield or whatever you have already. I know it's not correct, but the sad truth is that no matter how accurate a replica, it will always be a replica.

If you start with a GI frame, you will need to build the gun piece by piece. You will need to find a decent quality frame, track down the slide, and you won't have a gun you can shoot in the meantime.

The new loaded models have improved vastly over the older Springfields. Frame fit on the ones I have handled is relatively play free, and barrels look to have a good lock up for an off-the-shelf gun. You can replace the barrel for a bar-sto and upgrade the parts down the road, but in the meantime you can shoot the gun and check your work. There may be welding involved to get  an Ed Brown safety fit, but depending on the GI frame you find, there may be welding involved to correct slide/frame slop or other unseen issues. Personally, I'd prefer to have the beavertail fit corrected than welding the frame rails.

Which grip is definatitivaly the correct grip for these? I saw pachmayr 2919s in the beginning and I bought a set, I like the toe at the bottom but the raised thumb rest is dumb, it makes dropping mags hard and everybody knows you rest your thumb on the safety.
Then I notice towards the end of this thread a lot of guns have 2921s instead. Is the .mil using both?
I think I'm going to be doing some witteling on my grips.

Both are correct. The later Caspian guns appeared to have the finger rest the most often, but grips are easy to change.
I think Jeff had a story as to why how they ended up switching from the GM-54C to the GM-45. My memory is horrible though, so he or Ben will need to fill in the voids of knowledge if they swing by.

As a sidebar discussion to the lack of legitimate King's 201A's left in the wild, has anyone looked or tried these?



https://www.l10-machine.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/fully-machined-ambidextrous-safety

Ed Brown also makes a machined wide ambi now with the same hammer pin set up.

The GM-45 has the right side cut out for the ambi safety lever when the Ed Brown replaced the Kings.  The Kings didnt need the right side cut out in the grip.  I know GM-45C previously did not have cut out for right side ambi lever.  Do current versions of the GM-45C now have the cut out?

GM-45C has been made with ambi safety cutout in recent years

A Berryhill build (with a slightly non-standard trigger)
MEU(SOC)

First photo I ever see with personalized grips for Marine issued M45A1. Looks like Magpul MOE grips.Interesting setup, but not a fan of the M grips personally.

A U.S. Marine with Force Reconnaissance Platoon, Maritime Raid Force, 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU), reloads an M1911 during a training exercise Jan. 22, 2016. The 26th MEU is embarked with the Kearsarge Amphibious Ready Group and is deployed to maintain regional security in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of operations. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Cpl. Joshua W. Brown/Released)

We shouldn't have to log in to another forum to see a pic. Host it yourself with a free hosting site.

fixed it

First time I've seen a X300V on an A1, they've always been X300 Ultras pictured. I wonder if they had a specific reason for an IR light or just used what was available.

The story on why they switched from the GM-54C to the GM-45 is because someone in the shop ordered the wrong grips and they had to use them up.

To confirm:

This holster from Safariland does fit the M45A1:

http://www.safariland.com/retention/model-6280-sls-mid-ride-level-ii-retention-duty-holster-23292.html

Safariland 6280-56-131

(The 6004-5621-xxx WILL NOT hold the gun only-it may with correct light.)

It's VERY tight but from what I have read, it will loosen up with work and time.

I got one off Ebay for about 75% off list! Next cheapest was $90.

First trip to the range with the older sibling.

Looking good! Which mag release is that?

It's a Caspian Arms.

Found another piece of the puzzle that arrived today.




Now the hardest part has become finding an MGW ring hammer, haven't seen a single one. Still need a GI frame which is easy, I would like to find one of the "LEAD" marked arsenal rebuilds or similar though.

 
Cool/unique variant.  I saw an Operator slide on Gunbroker a while back and almost bought it.

Where did you find the slide?

Gunbroker, small gun shop had one sitting around probably since new. There doesn't seem to be any evidence inside the slide of it even being fired.

Is that one of the generations that still used the .45 firing pin? If so, you saved a bit of money on the reaming.

Yes, this one appears to have the .094" firing pin hole. From what information I have found Springfield used standard sized firing pins up to around the mid 90's. They changed to the .075" size to reduce firing pin mass so that they could pass CA drop test requirements. My slide was claimed to be made around 86-88 by the seller, in the early 90's they added the scallop to the ejection port to this style slide. It appears that when the cannon insignia was moved to the front of the slide is when they changed to the smaller pin. Here is a quick guide to the various slide changes over the years:

First generation slide - no scallop



Second generation - scallop added. Does not appear that these were ever widespread



Third and fourth gen - insignia moved forward on slide, firing pin changed to .075" Fourth gen added FCS



Fifth generation - changed to wide cocking serrations, Novak sight cuts added



If anyone has anything to add to the list through their findings please share.

I ordered the Ed Brown version of this. Not an exact copy but all the replacement parts in SA are Ed Brown.
Great thread and great information.  Awesome seeing all those Devil Dogs shooting 45s and getting some first hand information from Quantico PWS.

It seems that Springfield can't decide whether they want the logo centered between the rear serrations and the radius cut, aligned to the right, or aligned to the left.
Here's a couple more

A roll mark trying to escape the serrations

A MEUSOC with a very very odd Springfield GI slide

A Loaded slide where the logo is to the right

Old Caspian


New Caspian



Even on newer Loaded slides where the rollmarks are in the same place, the "Model 1911A1 Cal .45" font varies. Lots of unique twists.

I doubt it's the source of the slide shown above, but the earliest Springfield Armory 1911's (just a few hundred IIRC) had vertical serrations and a USGI "square tab" thumb safety.