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Posted: 9/4/2014 4:37:35 PM EDT
[#1]
There are numerous high round count Glocks out there that have had nothing more than spring replacement and minor maintenance done to them. I'm talking round counts in excess of 100k. The same 1911 would be on it's' third major rebuild by then.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 4:41:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
There are numerous high round count Glocks out there that have had nothing more than spring replacement and minor maintenance done to them. I'm talking round counts in excess of 100k. The same 1911 would be on it's' third major rebuild by then. +1. Glock by a long shot especially with hot loads. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 5:08:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911
1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 5:08:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911
1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. Uh... What? After taking several pistol classes I have come to the conclusion that any decent firearm is as reliable as the other. I have seen many glocks go down in classes. Bad extractors, loosing sights, stovepiping, etc. I have also seen the same thing happen with 1911s. Less actually, that being said not as many samples of 1911s to go from as glock usually rules classes. There is no perfect weapon. You are also comparing apples to oranges when throwing around 1911 vs glocks. A 1911 frame will go forever. Im sure a glocks would as well. Both will and can shoot out barrels. .45 is a low pressure round and neither glock or 1911 barrels will wear out without spending tens of thousands on ammo. There are more parts to break in a 1911 than a glock. A glock would be easier to repair. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 5:25:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. LOL |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:55:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Glock hands down
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Posted: 9/4/2014 7:07:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Which platform was designed for the 10mm from the get go?
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Posted: 9/4/2014 7:10:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Glock.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 7:20:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Glock.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 7:39:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
In terms of standing up to continuous hot loads. Which would likely have a greater lifespan? This is of course an assumption; however, you probably can not afford to wear out either platform. JD |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 9:10:34 PM EDT
[#12]
1. What is "continual hot loads"?
2. Both will outlast whatever you can afford to shoot through them, minus some spring replacements. The Glock frame is amazingly resilient. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:06:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. LOL yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM 
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:41:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Glock.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 1:06:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. LOL yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM With a +p+. One thing guaranteed is that 45 will be a .452" projectile or bigger. As far as which gun holds up better, they're both more than capable. As mentioned, a 1911 frame can last nearly indefinitely, while I have heard of more than one competition shooter killing a Glock frame. One is easy to replace/rebuild, the other will cost you time and/or money. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 5:49:58 AM EDT
[#16]
One would assume that steel on steel would ultimately last longer than steel on polymer, but even then you're talking about a LOT of ammo being ran through a Glock to wear it out. Simply put, if you can afford to shoot a Glock enough to wear it out, you can afford a new Glock.
The other thing is "hot" .45, which depends on your definition of hot. If by +P .45 ACP, you'll practically never wear out a G21. I handload the .45 Super and using a comp on my Gen4 G21 to shoot 255gr hardcasts to 1325 fps, a good bit hotter than a .45 ACP. I wouldn't shoot these constantly, but even with those, it's going to take a while to wear out a Glock frame. A 1911 would take a bit more effort to set up for such a load than the Glock does, which is pretty much just a barrel swap. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:00:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Having owned both, I sold my Sig 1911 TacOps and kept my G21. It's not that I didn't like my 1911, but that it was heavier and held less. With a trigger upgrade and new sights, my Glock is an EXCELLENT performer. They will both shoot better than I can produce, so I dumped the 1911 to put that money towards other projects.
I WILL revisit the 1911 again.  But my G21 fills the role nicely and I sacrifice nothing.
ETA: The Glock is still "steel on steel" as far as the slide to frame. Triggers and most parts can be replaced without any fitting or filing. I would think hot loads should affect mostly barrel and recoil springs. Barrel replacement for Glock is too easy as well as recoil spring. FWIW, this is my only Glock and I'm no fanboy. Just a free thinker. 
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Posted: 9/5/2014 7:52:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. LOL yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM Suppress. More reliably make large wound channels without worrying about other variables. Less likely to over penetrate. Subjectively, more comfortable felt recoil v. downrange kinetic energy (aka apples to apples for round selection). For me and many others, quicker and more accurate followup shots. The .45 spent brass makes a convenient place to store your 9mm brass. 
Back to the OP, I only have about 1k rounds down my Glock 21 so take this FWIW, but from what I can tell so far, it has Glock's traditional reliability. Unfortunately, I would probably trust it over my 1911 for long-term reliability with minimal upkeep. I say unfortunately because I spent way more on my 1911 and the 1911 fits me much better. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 8:35:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Since I just got a Glock 20 10mm....one of the first things I noted about the more potent 10mm ammo was that it's not recommended for 1911 style pistols...
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:16:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Edited...VA-gunnut
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:49:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. combat applications 1911 is more than reliable enough to feed the mags you carry in combat. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:52:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. LOL yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM tracks better |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:04:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at all the mall ninjas... I think several people here would be interested in your opinion on the subject at hand. Would you care to comment? |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:09:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at all the mall ninjas... Tech forum 
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:12:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. What is "continual hot loads"? 2. Both will outlast whatever you can afford to shoot through them, minus some spring replacements. The Glock frame is amazingly resilient. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume "continual hot loads" means exactly what it says. Hot loads (+p for example) fired through it on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:26:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:54:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since I just got a Glock 20 10mm....one of the first things I noted about the more potent 10mm ammo was that it's not recommended for some 1911 style pistols... The Colt Delta Elite is mentioned by some ammo companies. 1911 gun with ramped barrels are a different animal. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 1:38:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Sheriff's Dept deputy I know had Glock detonate injuring her hand. Polymer frame did not contain shrapnel the way a steel frame would have. Failure may have been caused by bullet set back but that is another subject.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 2:13:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 2:15:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume "continual hot loads" means exactly what it says. Hot loads (+p for example) fired through it on a regular basis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1. What is "continual hot loads"? 2. Both will outlast whatever you can afford to shoot through them, minus some spring replacements. The Glock frame is amazingly resilient. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume "continual hot loads" means exactly what it says. Hot loads (+p for example) fired through it on a regular basis. Good point, but I don't consider 45acp +P all that "hot" Some guys consider "hot" to be the upper ranges of .45super |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:26:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sheriff's Dept deputy I know had Glock detonate injuring her hand. Polymer frame did not contain shrapnel the way a steel frame would have. Failure may have been caused by bullet set back but that is another subject. Oddly, within the past 5 months two acquaintances I shoot with on occasion, have had what seemed to be detonations caused by improper reloading. The first was shooting a Glock 21 with his reloads when it exploded. The frame blew apart almost completely severing his right index finger. The docs were able to reattach the finger and he is making good progress healing. The second was shooting a Dan Wesson SS VBOB. I was shooting with him at the time and was in the process of reloading my 1911 mags when I heard a very loud report. I looked around and (he was down range from me) he was just looking at his 1911. I asked if he was ok and he said yes. He apparently double charged a Bullseye load with a 230gr RN lead bullet. The explosion blew the mag out, split both grip panels in half, and made power burn marks in the shape of the mainspring housing/grip safety in his palm. The mag spring and follower were compressed in the bottom of the mag and could not be removed. Other than being embarrassed he was unhurt. JD ETA - the VBOB was no worse for wear and functioned great afterwards. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:48:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Glock for reliability, 1911 for accuracy.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:14:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. Anyone here know if .45 Super is better than 10mm? If .45 Super is the top dog, I will sell off my G20 in a heartbeat. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:23:38 PM EDT
[#34]
 |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:24:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 Correct |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did not know that my USP could fire that. Anyone here know if .45 Super is better than 10mm? If .45 Super is the top dog, I will sell off my G20 in a heartbeat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. Anyone here know if .45 Super is better than 10mm? If .45 Super is the top dog, I will sell off my G20 in a heartbeat. Your wrong in assuming that only "one" manufacturer rates their .45's for shooting .45Super... Springfield 1911's are rated to shoot .45Super out of the box too, and I most certainly do shoot Buffalo Bore 255 grain lead hard cast truncated cone rounds at a cunt hair over 1,100 fps: out of a SA 1911 "Loaded"... It's certainly a "hot" load and definitely kicks 10mm's ass... It's also the most accurate load I've shot in any .45acp/.45Super semi auto pistol that hits hard and deep. I use it for my "Mountain Gun" in Highlands NC on the Nantahala Trail and for kayak fishing at our mountain home that backs up to it... 10+1 CMC power mag in the pistol with to (8) round reloads on the belt is a solid choice for a woods gun... |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 10:46:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your wrong in assuming that only "one" manufacturer rates their .45's for shooting .45Super... Springfield 1911's are rated to shoot .45Super out of the box too, and I most certainly do shoot Buffalo Bore 255 grain lead hard cast truncated cone rounds at a cunt hair over 1,100 fps: out of a SA 1911 "Loaded"... It's certainly a "hot" load and definitely kicks 10mm's ass... It's also the most accurate load I've shot in any .45acp/.45Super semi auto pistol that hits hard and deep. I use it for my "Mountain Gun" in Highlands NC on the Nantahala Trail and for kayak fishing at our mountain home that backs up to it... 10+1 CMC power mag in the pistol with to (8) round reloads on the belt is a solid choice for a woods gun... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. Anyone here know if .45 Super is better than 10mm? If .45 Super is the top dog, I will sell off my G20 in a heartbeat. Your wrong in assuming that only "one" manufacturer rates their .45's for shooting .45Super... Springfield 1911's are rated to shoot .45Super out of the box too, and I most certainly do shoot Buffalo Bore 255 grain lead hard cast truncated cone rounds at a cunt hair over 1,100 fps: out of a SA 1911 "Loaded"... It's certainly a "hot" load and definitely kicks 10mm's ass... It's also the most accurate load I've shot in any .45acp/.45Super semi auto pistol that hits hard and deep. I use it for my "Mountain Gun" in Highlands NC on the Nantahala Trail and for kayak fishing at our mountain home that backs up to it... 10+1 CMC power mag in the pistol with to (8) round reloads on the belt is a solid choice for a woods gun... Do you have any data such as ballistic gell and a chronograph, some targets for grouping results and distances? I am most certainly interested, sir. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 2:07:22 AM EDT
[#38]
I own both, I would go with the Glock.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:23:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. I'd say HK Mark23 - probably the strongest .45 platform! |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 7:59:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say HK Mark23 - probably the strongest .45 platform! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. I'd say HK Mark23 - probably the strongest .45 platform! It's not stronger than the hk45 |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 8:37:36 AM EDT
[#41]
I too have personally seen 1911s stand up to double charges that would have destroyed a Glock.
For equal quality, the Glock is less expensive. There is a place for both guns in my safe. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 9:18:46 AM EDT
[#42]
I have owned both. I would take a good 1911 over the Glock 21 any day.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 9:45:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not stronger than the hk45 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. I'd say HK Mark23 - probably the strongest .45 platform! It's not stronger than the hk45 How couldn't it be? Literally everything is bigger/thicker/stronger, from the barrel hood to the frame itself even. (I own both and have compared them side by side quite a bit) Not trying to be argumentative, you very well may know of a "weak point" in the system that I wasn't aware of. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:15:31 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't assume anything, the first time I've ever heard of .45 Super was in this thread and a member saying HK says you can. Do you have any data such as ballistic gell and a chronograph, some targets for grouping results and distances? I am most certainly interested, sir. Ammo Test on YouTube has done several videos with .45 Super. His videos compare several brands with chronograph tests, then finish off showing the pistol firing from the side. Interesting stuff. He uses a Glock 21 and a Glock 30. He also does 40 Super and 460 Rowland tests. Ammo Test Channel |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:25:22 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ammo Test on YouTube has done several videos with .45 Super. His videos compare several brands with chronograph tests, then finish off showing the pistol firing from the side. Interesting stuff. He uses a Glock 21 and a Glock 30. He also does 40 Super and 460 Rowland tests. Ammo Test Channel Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I didn't assume anything, the first time I've ever heard of .45 Super was in this thread and a member saying HK says you can. Do you have any data such as ballistic gell and a chronograph, some targets for grouping results and distances? I am most certainly interested, sir. Ammo Test on YouTube has done several videos with .45 Super. His videos compare several brands with chronograph tests, then finish off showing the pistol firing from the side. Interesting stuff. He uses a Glock 21 and a Glock 30. He also does 40 Super and 460 Rowland tests. Ammo Test Channel |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oddly, within the past 5 months two acquaintances I shoot with on occasion, have had what seemed to be detonations caused by improper reloading. The first was shooting a Glock 21 with his reloads when it exploded. The frame blew apart almost completely severing his right index finger. The docs were able to reattach the finger and he is making good progress healing. The second was shooting a Dan Wesson SS VBOB. I was shooting with him at the time and was in the process of reloading my 1911 mags when I heard a very loud report. I looked around and (he was down range from me) he was just looking at his 1911. I asked if he was ok and he said yes. He apparently double charged a Bullseye load with a 230gr RN lead bullet. The explosion blew the mag out, split both grip panels in half, and made power burn marks in the shape of the mainspring housing/grip safety in his palm. The mag spring and follower were compressed in the bottom of the mag and could not be removed. Other than being embarrassed he was unhurt. JD ETA - the VBOB was no worse for wear and functioned great afterwards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sheriff's Dept deputy I know had Glock detonate injuring her hand. Polymer frame did not contain shrapnel the way a steel frame would have. Failure may have been caused by bullet set back but that is another subject. Oddly, within the past 5 months two acquaintances I shoot with on occasion, have had what seemed to be detonations caused by improper reloading. The first was shooting a Glock 21 with his reloads when it exploded. The frame blew apart almost completely severing his right index finger. The docs were able to reattach the finger and he is making good progress healing. The second was shooting a Dan Wesson SS VBOB. I was shooting with him at the time and was in the process of reloading my 1911 mags when I heard a very loud report. I looked around and (he was down range from me) he was just looking at his 1911. I asked if he was ok and he said yes. He apparently double charged a Bullseye load with a 230gr RN lead bullet. The explosion blew the mag out, split both grip panels in half, and made power burn marks in the shape of the mainspring housing/grip safety in his palm. The mag spring and follower were compressed in the bottom of the mag and could not be removed. Other than being embarrassed he was unhurt. JD ETA - the VBOB was no worse for wear and functioned great afterwards. And these reports are why Glocks get such a bad rep for KB's. It's not the guns fault it KB's but Glocks will not contain damage from a KB as well as other guns. It is just the design of the gun. Over the years this has been passed down taken out of context. I've had more failures from my 1911 then my Glock. In my experience with 1911's they are very picky as to what mags & ammo you use, & require far too much upkeep for me to rely on one for SD use. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 11:37:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glock for actual combat applications. Much more reliable than a 1911 1911 for target shooting. Hard to beat the trigger on a 1911. with that said the 45ACP is an obsolete round but if I had to pick it would depend on the use. LOL yup... you heard me.... OBSOLETE what can the 45 do better than a smaller round (ie 9mm) with current bullet technology? Nothing but that's another topic and not what the OP asked. So feel free to ask me anything on a PM I love this argument. So, with this you are saying that, yes, before current bullet technology, the 9mm was indeed inferior to the .45ACP, but, with modern bullet technology, 9mm is every bit as effective as .45ACP with old bullet technology. So, is there some reason why that same modern bullet technology isn't being applied to the .45ACP as well, making it superior to itself with old technology, and therefore, again, more effective than the 9mm with either technology? Yeah, obsolete. Whatever.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 12:23:14 PM EDT
[#48]
If more, lesser effective shots are desired, 9mm is the perfect round.
I love the 9mm, but it will never be what a 45 can be with similar ammo. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 12:36:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How couldn't it be? Literally everything is bigger/thicker/stronger, from the barrel hood to the frame itself even. (I own both and have compared them side by side quite a bit) Not trying to be argumentative, you very well may know of a "weak point" in the system that I wasn't aware of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Between the two I would say the HK USP 45 That's what I came here to say. If you want to run hot loads, run the one the manufacturer is even ok with running .45 Super in. I'd say HK Mark23 - probably the strongest .45 platform! It's not stronger than the hk45 How couldn't it be? Literally everything is bigger/thicker/stronger, from the barrel hood to the frame itself even. (I own both and have compared them side by side quite a bit) Not trying to be argumentative, you very well may know of a "weak point" in the system that I wasn't aware of. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 12:46:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryHe likes to troll sometimes. . . .
DanTSXJr |
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