I've seen a few with the left side of the slide break, but never both. It gave no warning either. But the Big headed hammer pin did it's job and the slide didnt come back. Round count was close to 20,000 ( it's one from the MTU SAMG course )

Wow.  Only 20k rounds?  Was it ever maintained in terms of spring replacement, etc?  Seems kind of low for such a catastrophic failure.

Every class that came thru there gave them PM, plus we consenstly checked them for cracked locking blocks. The locking block, when in battery, puts alot of pressure on the thinnest part of the slide. Thats one reason the Brigadier as thicker slide arms.
Like I said, I'm seen a few that blew out the left side - one year during AFSAM, a marine got a hellaous rip in he's thumb from the slide rupturing.

That'll buff right out

Cool pictures.  I love seeing pictures of beat to poop guns that have provided decent service then finally died in some traumatic way.  If that was my gun, 20K seems like a decent threshold to think I got my money's worth out of it.  Maybe another slide and it'd be back in business.

Quoted: Every class that came thru there gave them PM, plus we consenstly checked them for cracked locking blocks. The locking block, when in battery, puts alot of pressure on the thinnest part of the slide. Thats one reason the Brigadier as thicker slide arms. Like I said, I'm seen a few that blew out the left side - one year during AFSAM, a marine got a hellaous rip in he's thumb from the slide rupturing.

I've got no experience with the brigadier, but I have a 92FS. Could a brig slide be added to a 92FS?

What would a pistol in that condition need to become fit-to-fire again, if it even could be?

Get another slide, and you'll be good for another 20k rounds.

I would ease up on those hot loads though.

that looks like a very old gun.
Replace slide. Shoot.

That's probably the 2nd breakage I've seen. Only two. Compare this break to other pistols problems, specially 1911. You do not have anything to worry about if you have a Beretta.

Quoted: That'll buff right out

Hell yeah!

Serial number range?

Quoted: Serial number range?

If you blow up the first picture you can see the serial number. It looks like 1169XXX. I don't want to post the whole thing. so I xxx the last 3 numbers. Even tho anyone can blow the pictures up to see it, I still don't feel right about posting it all.

Quoted: Quoted: Serial number range? If you blow up the first picture you can see the serial number. It looks like 1169XXX. I don't want to post the whole thing. so I xxx the last 3 numbers. Even tho anyone can blow the pictures up to see it, I still don't feel right about posting it all.

Coming up with the plan is just as much of an offence as committing the crime.

Quoted: Quoted: Every class that came thru there gave them PM, plus we consenstly checked them for cracked locking blocks. The locking block, when in battery, puts alot of pressure on the thinnest part of the slide. Thats one reason the Brigadier as thicker slide arms. Like I said, I'm seen a few that blew out the left side - one year during AFSAM, a marine got a hellaous rip in he's thumb from the slide rupturing. I've got no experience with the brigadier, but I have a 92FS. Could a brig slide be added to a 92FS? What would a pistol in that condition need to become fit-to-fire again, if it even could be?

A slide...

Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops).

Correct - M9s are a weak not the strongest design  & you must should avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or European "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo.

If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs.

Regards,

CBR

EDIT: Wow - amazing how sensitive some people are.  In light of all the thin-skinned Beretta fans out there crying over the word "weak" in my original post, please substitute "not recommended for shooting +p+ 9mm ammunition without cracking a locking block or slide"  

Happy now?

Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR

LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude...

Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man...

And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns...

Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design...

Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR

Aaaaaah, NATO ammo is basically +P.

Quoted: Every class that came thru there gave them PM, plus we consenstly checked them for cracked locking blocks. The locking block, when in battery, puts alot of pressure on the thinnest part of the slide. Thats one reason the Brigadier as thicker slide arms. Like I said, I'm seen a few that blew out the left side - one year during AFSAM, a marine got a hellaous rip in he's thumb from the slide rupturing.

So a Brigadier is by definition a stronger gun?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design...

Seen this post?:  LINK TO ARFCOM POST

Shoot much Hirtenberger L7A1 in your M9/92?

See also: +p vs. NATO tutorial

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design...

Who are you kidding that Beretta is better than Glock?  Too many problems?  You don't shoot much do you?

Quoted: Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR

Fact check in aisle 9, please.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design...

Speaking of "weak design,"  I'd like to have a conversation with the genius who designed this guy's brain!

I happen to be in the army right now and just came back from a deployment, I know a lot of guys who wish they had a glock and would have killed to get one. Most of the guys I was with want a different handgun, anything but a beretta.

Dont get me wrong I like the beretta. Its an accurate and reliable handgun but the glock 18 33rd mags give me more ammunition in a package thats just as reliable if not more than the beretta.  In 9mm with ball rounds you'll probably need that much ammo to stop someone.

It dosent really matter until the army changes to a larger caliber anyway, 9mm ball dosent do enough damage to be a reliable man stopper.

Saying that either Berettas or Glocks are "crap" is ignorant.  They are both excellent brands with years of fine service and good companies standing behind them.  This WAS an interesting thread, up to the point we started with the 3rd grade "your brand sux" crap.  I'm also still waiting for some data to back up this claim that the 92/M9 is "weak" and incapable of handling higher pressure ammo.  

Quoted: Saying that either Berettas or Glocks are "crap" is ignorant.  They are both excellent brands with years of fine service and good companies standing behind them.  This WAS an interesting thread, up to the point we started with the 3rd grade "your brand sux" crap.  I'm also still waiting for some data to back up this claim that the 92/M9 is "weak" and incapable of handling higher pressure ammo.

The Beretta 92/M9 was designed to fire NATO spec 9mm ball, which is about +P. The only problem is that there is no standard on how high each manufacturer makes their +p or +p+ -so each may be higher or lower than the others. And the use of 9mm designed for SMG's will ruin any pistol. I don't see any post indicating what type of ammo was being fired through that Beretta.

I would have more confidence shooting +p+ from a 92FS than any other pistol because I know the slide wont hit me in the face due to the saftey feature. If anything, the 92FS slide is a weak link and will act as a fuse rather than a grenade. But the chances of that happening are non existant unless I'm shooting SMG ammo exclusively.

That is the first picture I've seen on the internet of a broken slide on a Beretta. But I have seen several of Glocks that blew from using reloads and in at least one case, standard factory FMJ. I definately wouldn't want to be shooting +P+ through one when it kabooms.

92FS torture test:
Beretta 92FS Strength

Good post jeeper21

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Quoted: glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two..

I do believe that the Glock was really never in the running due to the U.S. requirement that our service pistol has to have a manual safety as well as a decocker for a plus.

That, and the fact that it didn't exist at the time of the M9 trials.

Quoted: That, and the fact that it didn't exist at the time of the M9 trials.

I'm too tired to search, but IIRC, Glock was around during the trials but refused to alter its design to meet the requirements and would not build a factory in the U.S. even if chosen.

Quoted: Quoted: Saying that either Berettas or Glocks are "crap" is ignorant.  They are both excellent brands with years of fine service and good companies standing behind them.  This WAS an interesting thread, up to the point we started with the 3rd grade "your brand sux" crap.  I'm also still waiting for some data to back up this claim that the 92/M9 is "weak" and incapable of handling higher pressure ammo.   The Beretta 92/M9 was designed to fire NATO spec 9mm ball, which is about +P. The only problem is that there is no standard on how high each manufacturer makes their +p or +p+ -so each may be higher or lower than the others. And the use of 9mm designed for SMG's will ruin any pistol. I don't see any post indicating what type of ammo was being fired through that Beretta. I would have more confidence shooting +p+ from a 92FS than any other pistol because I know the slide wont hit me in the face due to the saftey feature. If anything, the 92FS slide is a weak link and will act as a fuse rather than a grenade. But the chances of that happening are non existant unless I'm shooting SMG ammo exclusively. That is the first picture I've seen on the internet of a broken slide on a Beretta. But I have seen several of Glocks that blew from using reloads and in at least one case, standard factory FMJ. I definately wouldn't want to be shooting +P+ through one when it kabooms. 92FS torture test: Beretta 92FS Strength

Good information Jeeper - thanks for the link.  At this point, everyone seems to be saying the same thing.  The link posted above includes:

"After about 15,000 rounds I began to notice some pitting on the right wing of the locking block. I recommend changing this part when pitting is noted, but this was a torture test and we wanted to see how long the gun will last.

As of now 17,500 rounds have been fired and I headed back to the range to fire the remaining 3,000 rounds. Finally at round count 19,498, I had a locking block failure. The left wing of the locking block broke and the pistol's slide locked up. By pushing down on the broken wing with a drift punch, the action was freed and the pistol subsequently disassembled, revealing some minimal frame damage - but nothing that would affect the operation of the pistol. I changed the locking block and within 10 minutes I was back in action and concluded the test with no other malfunctions. The last 15 rounds were fired for accuracy; the group measured about 1.75 inches at 15 yards. The accuracy had hardly changed at all."

Moral of the story: avoid +p+ 9mm in the Beretta

Thanks again.

CBR

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design...

C-S where did you get your info on "beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two" Glock never failed the military testing cause it was never tested. Second SIG out did Beretta " XM9 Service Pistol Trials". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P226 and Iam not a GLOCK fan but it do think they make great guns and I do have Beretta thats over 30 years old model 70S in 380.

Looks like a failure due to fatigue - I don't see any necking down where it broke, which would indicate a tensile (strength) failure.  Could be caused by something as innocuous as the "PB" stamp on the slide, or even just a sharp corner.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design... C-S where did you get your info on "beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two" Glock never failed the military testing cause it was never tested. Second SIG out did Beretta " XM9 Service Pistol Trials". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P226 and Iam not a GLOCK fan but it do think they make great guns and I do have Beretta thats over 30 years old model 70S in 380.

Out of his ass.

gixxer_sixxer-

We had a pic of this pistol in a thread back in April.  Were you the OP of the thread in April?  

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Quoted: I'm too tired to search, but IIRC, Glock was around during the trials but refused to alter its design to meet the requirements and would not build a factory in the U.S. even if chosen.

You're quite correct, it was adopted by the Norwegian army in 1984, so it fits the timeline.  I had 1987 in my head for some unknown reason.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm too tired to search, but IIRC, Glock was around during the trials but refused to alter its design to meet the requirements and would not build a factory in the U.S. even if chosen. You're quite correct, it was adopted by the Norwegian army in 1984, so it fits the timeline.  I had 1987 in my head for some unknown reason.

Can't comment on what went down witht he original military trials other than to clarify that apparently the military's requirements also include:

-a "second strike" capability; supposedly needed for when a hard primer or debris prevents a round from firing; the idea being its better to simply pull the trigger again on that same round instead of clearing it. Glock's system as produced up to this year can't do that.

-US factory. The M9, while an Italian design, is made for the military just north of here in Maryland, and FN & Colt are in the US as well.

For the last year or two, Glock is also US made, and I understand that all the new Glocks sold here are, or soon will be made in Georgia.

Dug up some info on the military trials from another site (can't confirm its accuracy - but it agrees with what I recall):

"The original JSSAP trial for a new pistol began in 1978 with the Air Force testing several pistols. In 1980 the Beretta was declared the winner however in 1981 after some "mud throwing" between the Army and the Air Force the JSSAP began once again with the Army now leading the way in conducting the JSSAP. All the pistols failed so once again in 1982 another set of tests were conducted with lightened requirements and again they all failed. Finally in 1983 the JSSAP was officialy named the XM9 Service Pistol Trial and began again in January 1984 and ended actually in September 1984 with the Beretta and the SIG being the winner but wasn't official till January 1985 after some litigation from other pistol companies.

Gaston did not begin working on the Glock 17 until 1982. Since he was already too late to enter the tests that had begun in 1981 he did not bother with the requirements of the JSSAP. Had he designed his pistol around the JSSAP requirements he probably would have had a chance to enter it later on during the XM9 trial but as it was the Glock 17 would not have met the requirements of the JSSAP and would have been rejected from the start.

An excerpt from a now defunct website on the history of the M-9.......

In 1981, the US Army was given control of the JSSAP pistol trials, and the search began again. 85 requirements were laid down for the winning XM9 pistol; 72 were mandatory while 13 were desirable. Only four pistols were entered this time: the Beretta 92SB (an improved 92S-1), the HK P7M13, the S&W 459A, and the SIG-Sauer P226. However, all four failed, and strangely, the Beretta now finished dead last, even behind the M1911A1.

Congress and the GAO were infuriated by the waste of money with no apparent results. Procurement funds for additional .45 ACP ammunition was withheld until the US Army could formulate a test series that a manufacturer could pass. The XM9 trials started again in January 1984. During the mean time, Beretta had improved the 92SB again, calling the resulting pistol the 92SB-F. The competitors included the Colt SSP, the FN Double Action Hi-Power, the HK P7M13, the SIG-Sauer P226, the S&W 459, the Steyr GB, and the Walther P88. In the end, only the P226 and 92SB-F were considered to have passed all of the tests.

Oh yeah we haven't even touched the whole XM10 pistol trial that was brought about after some S&W whinning. Congress decided to start a new competition, named XM10, in the spring of 1988. Ruger submitted the P85 and Tanfoglio the T-75, both were rejected almost from the start. Beretta and SIG were exempt from taking part in the new trial since they had already passed the testing. S&W now refused to submit any pistol claiming that the Beretta should be tested again as well. Then a second set of tests were once again started with S&W and Ruger taking part. The Beretta is entered and once again it wins the pistol trial."

BTW - there are actually at least 2 mil designations for issue sidearms: M9 and M11 - the latter being a version of the Sig 228.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design... C-S where did you get your info on "beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two" Glock never failed the military testing cause it was never tested. Second SIG out did Beretta " XM9 Service Pistol Trials". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P226 and Iam not a GLOCK fan but it do think they make great guns and I do have Beretta thats over 30 years old model 70S in 380. Out of his ass.

I wonder if he can pull rabbits out of it also :) sounds like magic

When I attended a basic firearms instructor course back in the mid-nineties, I was carrying an Italian built Beretta 92 Stainless. The course was one week long with the first two days being classroom and the remaining three were range. Our wages at the police department I was working for were less than great and my Chief purchased 1500 rds of Norinco (Chinese) 115 grain FMJ for me to use. The lead instructor requested that each of us leave the weapons as-is throughout the class to see which pistols would operate without malfunctions.

The other students were giving me crap for having to shoot that stuff, but I used all 1500 rds of that smelly dirty crap ammo and the feedramp area and ejection port were literally black by the end of the second day. My Beretta never missed a beat through those 1500 rds and you know what? Out of 25 students there were Colt 1911's, Glock 17's, Glock 22's, Glock 21's, Sig P-220's, Sig P-226's, two Beretta 92F pistols (One being mine) and a couple of S&W autos. The only pistols that had problems on the last day of range were the S&W pistols (both 4006 models). I still have my Beretta and after having the opportunity to shoot every other student's pistol at the end of the course, I found that there wasn't a pistol there that I really didn't like.

I guees the way I look at it is that if a person is going to own a firearm without researching known maintenance needs for each given pistol, they are just as much to blame for a weapons failure as the manufacturer. I have seen one Glock 17 and one Beretta 92 suffer breakage. The Beretta had a trigger spring break which can be avoided by using a Wolff INS trigger conversion. The Glock 17 had a trigger spring break as well, which can be avoided by using a NY trigger spring. From what I have seen, both are just as reliable as the other for most shooters. However, I would not intentionally feed a steady diet of +P+ ammo through a Beretta. I would, however not think twice about using it for carry ammo.

Quoted: When I attended a basic firearms instructor course back in the mid-nineties, I was carrying an Italian built Beretta 92 Stainless. The course was one week long with the first two days being classroom and the remaining three were range. Our wages at the police department I was working for were less than great and my Chief purchased 1500 rds of Norinco (Chinese) 115 grain FMJ for me to use. The lead instructor requested that each of us leave the weapons as-is throughout the class to see which pistols would operate without malfunctions. The other students were giving me crap for having to shoot that stuff, but I used all 1500 rds of that smelly dirty crap ammo and the feedramp area and ejection port were literally black by the end of the second day. My Beretta never missed a beat through those 1500 rds and you know what? Out of 25 students there were Colt 1911's, Glock 17's, Glock 22's, Glock 21's, Sig P-220's, Sig P-226's, two Beretta 92F pistols (One being mine) and a couple of S&W autos. The only pistols that had problems on the last day of range were the S&W pistols (both 4006 models). I still have my Beretta and after having the opportunity to shoot every other student's pistol at the end of the course, I found that there wasn't a pistol there that I really didn't like. I guees the way I look at it is that if a person is going to own a firearm without researching known maintenance needs for each given pistol, they are just as much to blame for a weapons failure as the manufacturer. I have seen one Glock 17 and one Beretta 92 suffer breakage. The Beretta had a trigger spring break which can be avoided by using a Wolff INS trigger conversion. The Glock 17 had a trigger spring break as well, which can be avoided by using a NY trigger spring. From what I have seen, both are just as reliable as the other for most shooters. However, I would not intentionally feed a steady diet of +P+ ammo through a Beretta. I would, however not think twice about using it for carry ammo.

I feel the same way and I think most people have that same idea.  I would not think twice about feeding it to a G17 though.  I like the M9/92 and it points shoots great for me but its just not up to the diet of +p+ ammo.

Quoted: And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns...

The 92 wasn't the only gun to pass testing, it was the cheapest though.

You may have also heard that there was some political wrangling during the trials because the US had interest in strategic military locations within Italy and didn't want to lose them over something as silly as a piece of equipment American fighting men rely on for their lives.
True, False, I don't know. Just something I heard once.

Wow.  Both of mine only broke on the left side after the lcoking blocks cracked at about 5K.

Found another link to a history of the M9 and slide controversy:

Tracking M9 Slide Failures from TheGunzone

And here is another article with links to GAO reports:

LINK to M9 Article

My thanks to deployed serviceman and arfcom member Mrraley for both of these excellent links, as well as for his service to our country.


Enjoy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design... C-S where did you get your info on "beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two" Glock never failed the military testing cause it was never tested. Second SIG out did Beretta " XM9 Service Pistol Trials". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P226 and Iam not a GLOCK fan but it do think they make great guns and I do have Beretta thats over 30 years old model 70S in 380. Out of his ass. I wonder if he can pull rabbits out of it also :) sounds like magic

I for one wouldn't envy the rabbit. probably plenty of room in there though, assuming the gerbil would be wiling to share.

"On this weeks edition of ask the gerbil..."

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Every class that came thru there gave them PM, plus we consenstly checked them for cracked locking blocks. The locking block, when in battery, puts alot of pressure on the thinnest part of the slide. Thats one reason the Brigadier as thicker slide arms. Like I said, I'm seen a few that blew out the left side - one year during AFSAM, a marine got a hellaous rip in he's thumb from the slide rupturing. I've got no experience with the brigadier, but I have a 92FS. Could a brig slide be added to a 92FS? What would a pistol in that condition need to become fit-to-fire again, if it even could be? A slide...

Wow, thanks for nothing, Mr. Wizard.

Does a slide fracture like this ever cause any damages to any other parts? And again, can the brig slide be fitted to the FS?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About the only time I have seen a M-9 slide crack was from SMG ammo while being run with the stock 13 lbs spring, or better yet, being can'd with the same ammo (too much pressure to the lock block on the slide, and the lock will not release cleanly from the slide as the bullet exits, the bore pressure drops). Correct - M9s are weak design & you must avoid anything but standard 9mm ammo. Than means little to NO +p, absolutley NO +p+ or Europena "CIP" rated ammo and no SMG ammo. If you want to shoot hot ammo (over 1200 FPS 124s) stick to stronger designs like Glock, Sig, custom ramped-barrel/supported chamber 1911s (IE STI/SV race guns) or CZs. Regards, CBR LOL I'm sorry buddy but glocks are built to crap... I've seen more glocks malfunction and mess up then any beretta I've even heard of... to recommend a glock over a beretta you must be out of your mind... glock's are over priced plastic toy'ish feeling block shooters.... seriously man.... glock stronger than a beretta lol... good one dude... Now I won't lie... Sigs are good guns... I personally prefer a beretta... but a glock lol come on man... And too say M9's are weak design... hmm...  beretta only handgun to pass the complete military endurance test... glocks failed multiple tests not just one or two... and the beretta is the only gun to pass them all... that sais something when the military picks beretta over every other manufacturers "best" line up of handguns... Most people I know who have bought glocks or the officers I know who carried them for some time... all said the same thing... "NEVER AGAIN"... too many problems... to shitty of a design... Can you give us an idea of your credentials?

Stupidity Tech. Advanced PHD.

Quoted: Cool pictures.  I love seeing pictures of beat to poop guns that have provided decent service then finally died in some traumatic way.  If that was my gun, 20K seems like a decent threshold to think I got my money's worth out of it. Maybe another slide and it'd be back in business.

Maybe for an AR[barrel] but not a 9mm pistol...

Quoted: Found another link to a history of the M9 and slide controversy: Tracking M9 Slide Failures from TheGunzone And here is another article with links to GAO reports: LINK to M9 Article My thanks to deployed serviceman and arfcom member Mrraley for both of these excellent links, as well as for his service to our country. Enjoy.

The first link is sixteen years old and has too much opinion and not enough facts (and too much conspiracy theory).

The second link is excellent as it contains more facts even though there is some opinion also.  It documents the improvements made to the pistol that have made it reliable and durable after some teething problems (locking block, slide).

I try to check for hairline cracks in our work M9's every time I clean them.

I take the slide, and gently tap the barrel or recoil spring guid on the side of the slide.

If it "tings" like a bell, it's good to go.

If it thunks, and sounds hollow, I bust out the magnifying glass, and always find a crack on the left side of the slide.

Saves us from the "Oh shit!" factor from blowing up on the range.