User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 6:07:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Thank you very much for telling me why my accuracy sucked the other day. I had compared the Winchester .45acp 100rnd value pack to the American Eagle ammo, and saw that the Eagles were a little redder- but didn't realize that the Winchester 100rnd box were brass jacketed. I couldn't shoot groups for shit with the Winchsters at 10 yards, while 3 days previous I was using American Eagles at 25 yards to produce(nothing special) 3in groups.
So yeah, you aren't the only one. My(gun's) favorite ammunition is Golden Sabers, though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 10:49:13 AM EDT
[#2]
EXACTLY!
I went to confirm zero on a replacement front sight for my G22. And I was shooting that brass jacketed crap at about 15-20 yards and could hardly hold a 9-10 inch group. Then yesterday, I got some UMC copper jacketed and could see that I was easily half the group size on my pistol gong. I'm not buying that shit anymore. It makes me lose confidence in my ability to take a precision shot with my carry weapon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 10:51:37 AM EDT
[#3]
It all should be banned!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 1:42:47 PM EDT
[#5]
I carry 165 gr. Gold dots. I was carrying 165 gr. Corbon, but when I would mess around and shoot water jugs with them for unofficial research, the jacke consistantly came off.
I wonder if the Brass jacketed bullets suck as bad out of conventionally rifled hand gun barrels. Maybe I'll by a box of .45 and run some thru a 1911 for research. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 1:59:25 PM EDT
[#6]
How old is the WWB value pack you're using? I ask because they changed the jacket a little while ago. It's no longer a brass jacket (at least it doesn't look like brass). It looks like a conventional copper jacket. I haven't cut one open to actually look at a cross-section.
Also, the boxes have "Improved Accuracy Bullet" printed on them. I guess you guys weren't the only ones complaining. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 4:00:08 PM EDT
[#7]
I found Corbon lead to be too soft, the hollow points would close up a little bit from hitting the feed ramp or dropping them. My 185gr Golden Sabers(my +P GS are 230gr) don't do that but the additional 20gr may thicken the walls of the bullet, so I dunno. I grew up hunting with a Remington rifle loaded with Remington ammunition, so I tried GS when they came out a few years ago and have sort of shunned all other self-defense/hunting ammo since. I'll definately give those Gold Dots a try though, see how my 21 likes 'em(thats the same type of ammo as my DE takes). Thanks . |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 5:38:53 PM EDT
[#8]
I don't know how old the ammo was, but there's no denying that it's the brass jacket. And if yours looks like Copper, it probably is. Where did you pick up this "Improved Accuracy Bullet" ammo? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2005 6:04:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Walmart has been selling the "Improved Accuracy Bullet" ammo for many months now. Maybe it's only in 9mm?? I usually go to the one on Warner and Alma School (Chandler). I know for sure I've bought it there (in 9mm) but I'm pretty sure I've gotten it at other valley walmarts as well. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2005 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#10]
That's hot! I usually try to avoid Wal Mart like the plague. But in a bind, I'll get ammo there.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 9:03:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Anyone else notice the accuracy degradation of brass jackets in their glocks?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 9:10:52 AM EDT
[#12]
THEY SHOULD BOTH BE BANNED!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 9:37:13 AM EDT
[#13]
I don't have a .45 pistol, but the WWB 9mm 115 gr. Value-Pack from Wally World has been an "improved accuracy bullet" for about a year, IIRC.
That's all my G17 eats, and eats it sure does. Much better ammo IMHO AFA accuracy goes. 7 Yard groups are much, much improved. Here's the 9X19 in question from Wal-Mart  HS1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 9:43:45 AM EDT
[#14]
I wonder what they did to "improve" accuracy. I haven't tried the new round, but the original round was pathetic.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 9:44:19 AM EDT
[#15]
You're preaching to the choir on this one! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 11:24:19 AM EDT
[#16]
I've never had any problems with the Remington Golden Sabers. Their accuracy seems fine to me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 11:35:12 AM EDT
[#17]
It must be specific to WIN's brass jacketed bullets.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 11:43:35 AM EDT
[#18]
AFAIK, they dumped the brass jacket for a copper jacket. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 2:08:26 PM EDT
[#19]
I just feed my 17,19, and 30 a steady diet of thousands and thousands of rounds of Wolf Ammo.
I hit a 14" steel plate at 50 yards 90% of the time. <shrug> |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 2:18:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Blaspheme! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 2:38:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Heh. With every 2000 rounds of Wolf that I buy, I have almost enough in savings for an extra 1000 rounds over using even the Wally World White Box approach. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2005 6:01:16 PM EDT
[#22]
It's the loose nut behind the trigger..........................fix that and there's no problem with jacketed ammo in a Glock. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2005 8:21:15 AM EDT
[#23]
I don't know why you guys buy such expensive ammo. I find wolf shoots just fine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2005 11:07:25 PM EDT
[#24]
I don’t like wolf it’s dirty. Although I shoot Winchester white box all the time and never had a problem cci is even cleaner.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/5/2005 4:59:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Wolf, CCI Blazer, and WWB cost the same. I don't know why you'd run Wolf in 9mm Luger. It makes sense for .223 and 7.62x39.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/7/2005 9:06:37 AM EDT
[#26]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/20/2005 5:13:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Ive shot up to 15 yards with my Wally World .40 S&W Winchester rounds and accuracy doest all out suck but it seems to be off most of the time. Not only that but I think there was instability too ... tumble as in the hole is not round but in the shape of the bullet sideways and I dont care what anybody says, THAT ISNT supposed to happen. Have seen the primers blown out of a few from other guys at the range too. Sooooo + 1 and HEEEEELLLLP I need a good cheap target round! What do glock 23s like to eat?? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/20/2005 10:12:39 PM EDT
[#28]
This is gonna sound crazy but here it goes. That crappy brass jacketed stuff shoots terribly thru my G23, G21, and G36. Remington Golden Sabre JHP (my carry ammo and also brass jacketed) shoots a five round group through a hole about 2 in. in diameter from 15 yds. in .40 and 45.
Cartridge brass, which is what the Golden Sabre is jacketed with, has to pass quality control testing before it can be used for casings. This is to ensure that the brass doesn't fail when you fire a round from it. That could be very messy and painful. I wonder if the cheap ammo uses "GASP": cheap brass in its jacketing. They wouldn't do that would they? Of course not! Who in their right mind would use inferior ingredients in dirt cheap ammo? I'm sure they're using only the best stuff in that ammo. Ummm yeah.... Cheap brass could be weaker and might not hold up to the stress of firing. Bullets that malformed at firing were very common many years ago. The earliest .357 Magnum lead round nose bullets had a lot of problems with that. Later they had problems with jackets not staying bonded to the lead core, which also caused malforming. There are plenty of examples of this with old rifle cartridges too. Just a thought, but I'm probably crazy so I'll just go away now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:36:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Golden saber then, thanks. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/21/2005 6:57:52 AM EDT
[#30]
I bought 500 rounds of UMC from Cheaperthandirt.com. I bought a couple of boxes locally and it was much better than the BRASS JACKETED stuff so I stocked up. There's really no smokin' deals out there for 40 smith. Wolf is no option for me. Blazer brass seems to be decent too. I can just remember coming home from shooting all crapped out wondering why my accuracy with my carry weapon was dog shit. I should file a lawsuit against WIN for emotional distress! 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/23/2005 4:08:00 PM EDT
[#31]
I don't know what to say but the Winchester USA 115gr FMJ Value Pack (9mmVP) with the "Improved Accuracy" bullet uses a copper jacket. I confirmed it by rubbing CR-10 over the bullet and the napkin turned blue.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2005 4:29:23 AM EDT
[#32]
I started using sellier and bellot ammo, its about the same price and seems to feed ok.
the 170gr in 40cal is a little hot. I think its about 1170fps or something like that. the only thing with this ammo is they put a little red dot of some kind of paint or something on the primer. no big deal but when i clean my gun i found some little red specks inside :) |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/25/2005 11:54:56 PM EDT
[#33]
My glock still function after several thousand rounds without cleaning, then i wash it in the sink. Don't really care how clean the ammo is when everything comes off with soap and water.
generally wolf costs me $20 less per thousand. I find wolf to be just as accurate and have a slight edge on power. Even if it was only a couple bucks, if it functions flawlessly, why wouldn't it make sense? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 3:30:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Wolf just increased in price BTW. It may not be more expensive than CCI Blazer (or may), but 9mm Luger prices are so comparable that you can't really pick one over the other that easily especially if you have a Glock that eats anything.
For .223/7.62x39, Wolf is a no-brainer due to the cost/performance ratio. Low cost, good performance. Brass-cased .223/7.62x39 can cost a fortune to shoot in large quantities. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:05:50 AM EDT
[#35]
That gold crap is the only round that has ever jammed my G22, I would not use it and advise not to use it and advise to inspect every round if your gonna use it for overpress
Took 2 screwdrivers prying to get that sucker out and iI noticed alot of fools gold in my rails Who is commiting the worse crime Winchester for making it or Wallyworld for wh*ring it out lol Why buy expensive ammo for practice with the carry? It makes sense to practice with exactly what your gonna use if it comes down to it and I agree not so critical with the 5.56/.223 they all fire (recoil wise) about the same, HUGE difference in carry between weights and manufacture, forget manufacture tests go with what the morgue says - Federal LE TAC .40 180 JHP ammoman 250 will get you 500 (ps dont tell anyone but thats for carry, in the home I stick to magsafe defender or swat) |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/9/2005 1:46:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Wal-Mart is selling COPPER JACKETED Winchester bullets in the WWB cartridges (Note the "Improved Accuracy" print on the box).
If you're richie rich, you could practice with carry ammo. 147 gr JHP runs from $0.20/rd to the $0.55/rd boutique boxes of Speer Gold Dot and WInchester Ranger T. wow. I'll stick with the cheapest plinking ammo possible for practicing. For a carry pistol, you only need 1-3 rounds in a typical self-defense shooting. I doubt you will notice a different trajectory or recoil in that situation with all the adrenaline pumping. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2005 9:17:12 AM EDT
[#37]
This shows how far I've been out of things, I didn't know that brass jacketed rounds were still available after importation of Norinco stopped.
-Frank |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/18/2005 5:07:05 PM EDT
[#38]
I've shot LOTS of Winchester white box .45 and 9mm in both practice and training. Never had a problem with function or accuracy. Winchester white box .45 on table in a vehicle tactics class (no, the wolf was not mine).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2005 10:36:24 AM EDT
[#39]
What's the difference between the 100rd WWB 9mm that wally world sells for $11 and the 50rd 9mm WWB that they sell for $4.63?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2005 10:44:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Function is no problem. Have you been shooting the Brass jacketed stuff? Accuracy degradation is dramatic in glocks. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:40:54 AM EDT
[#41]
What's wrong with Wolf? It's copper jacketed. The steel case couldn't wear out your chamber if you wanted it to do so. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/23/2005 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#42]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/23/2005 10:23:43 AM EDT
[#43]
My gut says it's more likely the actual bullet itself. But who knows? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/23/2005 11:10:09 AM EDT
[#44]
I agree. It doesn't seem too bad in 9mm, but the .40 in my Glocks blow. I'm talking huge groups. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/23/2005 11:28:51 AM EDT
[#45]
G22 is what I was shooting. I could not guarantee a head shot at 10 yards with the stuff. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 8:00:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Did you know that almost all keys created are made with the brass from shell casings? How bout that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 7:33:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Really? How'd you find out that? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/1/2006 11:42:55 AM EDT
[#48]
I run mostly UMC bulk packs, which are 180gr FMJ. Last week I was shooting 2-3" groups slowfire at 15 yards, with most rounds falling inside 2". |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2006 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#49]
I went and picks up three packs of wally world white box 40 cal rounds. They were a little over 15 bucks a box of 100. I will give a report tomorrow after I get back from the range.
Brian Well, they worked fine for me. Not one jam. my groupings were probably 4 inches at 25-30 ft or so. But if I shot further , say 75ft or so I seemed to be more acturate at times. At least shooting at tin cans. I couldnt figure that one out. I didnt have any rounds hit the target side ways or anything like that. I am new to shooting the 40 cal so I am by far a great shot with this thing. I seemed to be shooting to the right a little. Is this common with the G23 or is it just me. Or maybe the sights arent centered. They look centered to me. I have only 400 rounds through it so far. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2006 5:48:05 AM EDT
[#50]
I lucked out and got several boxes of 180g Speer Gold Dot in .40 S&W, 50rds for 15.99 each. Should have bought a pallet full of them.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
