15  and 25 yds...3 time at range with G 19.  Trying to focus on grip, trigger

150 rounds today LOT'S of white {misses

This pretty accurate?

Is this your first Glock and how many rounds have you put 'down range'?  I have a gal that comes into the range that I RSO at and when she first started shooting her G23, she was all over the place.  We worked with her a little on how to hold the G23, working on the trigger and told her that she needs to put lots of 'rounds down' range.  She now has about 600 round through her G23 and she is doing just fine.  Her groups came down to about 3", taking out the center of her target.
Keep shooting and have some one watch to see what you are doing.  
Have fun and good shooting.

Yes, 1st glock...1st handgun after several yrs.

this is 3rd time at the range with her. have about 400 rounds total through her.

Yes, I call my 19 "her"  her name is sexy bitch  


****EDIT***  Using FMJ Atlanta arms Blue box 115 grn ammo

Your shotgun looks fine to me

How fast are you shooting? The three things I would focus on are sight alignment, sight picture, and tigger pull. Make sure you are consistently pulling the trigger straight to the rear in one fluid motion. Don't hit the wall of the trigger before it breaks and then snap the trigger back because everything (sight picture and alignment) looks good. Let the gun going off be a surprise to you when pulling the trigger.

Get those fundamentals down and then get progressively quicker.

I would also move the target closer in to about the 7-10 yard line and work on the fundamentals before increasing the distance.

Some of your shots look like they tend to stray a little to the left. Two things to focus on when that happens is to make sure you have enough finger on the trigger to pull it straight back and to make sure you aren't gripping too tight with your support hand. This is assuming you are a right handed shooter.


ETA: Just noticed how many rounds you fired. Are you taking breaks between every 50 rounds or so? If not you could be getting fatigued especially if you aren't used to shooting pistols.

IMHO trigger control is 85% of shooting with any weapon.

It is difficult to master shooting any gun.  As trigger pull weight increases and pistol weight decreases it gets harder.

If a glock is 2 pounds loaded and the trigger pull is 5 1/2 pounds... Well you get my point.

I've always thought this was a great place for a DA S&W revolver in 2014. If you master it everything else is easy to shoot.

Focus on that front sight and CONTROL your trigger.... Practice practice practice.

Best of luck.... It's a journey.

You are flinching.

Have someone else load your mags and throw a random couple dummy rounds in there.

You will see.

Dry fire, dry fire, and some more dry fire. Until you can hit a 3x5 card at 10 yards on demand dont worry about shooting fast. Worst thing guys do is just blaze away at a target, and then wonder why they have so many misses. You have to start slow and learn the basics. Sight picture and good trigger pulls, the rest is just fluff.

Move way in and start there.  Any issues will only be worse with distance added.

thanks for the replys. I spend lots of time on you tube vids, here and other sites.  

Def . lots of "new shooter" error's, although in my mind, I am a bad ass  

Will work on slow/steady moves. Have a class lined up but a month away.
Gonna dry fire more often to the annoyance of the wife  

Just curious what sights you are using? Reason I ask is, for me, the factory sights and similarly profiled sights don't work for me much past 15 yards...... the front sight blade is wider than the notch in the rear, so it's very difficult for me and my 44 year old eyes to be super accurate at 25 yards. I run sights with a fairly narrow front and wider rear notch so I can be very accurate at longer distances with no fliers (more than 6" away from point-of-aim.)

Looking at your target, I see a few possibilities. First, as I alluded to above, your sights may not be accurate at longer ranges for you. It's possible you may be flinching, and lastly, you may not be focusing on your front sight as the shot breaks. It can be very hard to keep focused on the front sight, especially at longer ranges because your eyes want to look at the target. I struggle with this from time to time, as well as with flinching. As mentioned above, dry fire is your friend.

While practice is important only perfect practice makes perfect. After 100 rounds you get tired and sloppy. 30 perfect trigger presses three times a week is better than 100 sloppy ones in one session. Look up trigger reset for one this makes shooting a glock much more accurately. It is 90+% trigger control - even with a bad sight picture ( which is not often the issue ) good trigger control will still give you groups. I went to a clas where the instructor actually put electrical tape on out sights and forced us to focus solely on trigger control and the result was most students could hold 8" or less groups at 25 yards with no sights at all, the instructor could do the same at 50!

Damn, you are all over the place!  Practice, practice, practice.  For me, I'd start out at 7 to 10 yards then work myself farther out.  After a few thousand rounds you'll get a bit more tighter groups.  Good luck.

I would encourage you to keep the trigger full to the rear completely pressed after each shot until you have sights aligned for the next shot. Then allow the trigger forward just enough to feel the click of the reset and press again immediately for the next shot. All the while staying sharp on the front sight focus.
I'm talking about follow through.
Try it and see how it works for you.
Glock triggers suck ass compared to single action 1911 style triggers and take more practice to keep from jerking them.

First guess... a little bit of a flinch.

Second guess... not having a good, solid grip on the pistol.  This may be from simple strength (not gripping it hard enough), or more likely, not having a proper grip which will hold it solid.

Third guess... trigger control.

Have someone ELSE load the magazine for you, and slip a snap-cap in there somewhere.  When you pull the trigger on that one, I'm betting that you'll see right away what's causing it, because your sights won't stay on the target while you're pulling.

TL;DR not enough dry fire.
Don't waste time trying anything else.  Practice dry fire at home.  Do it perfectly as many times as you can maintain perfect form then quit before you get sloppy.





When you hit the range, dry fire, then shoot, then the instant you get sloppy dry fire.





When you get sloppy, start dry firing again.  Then go back to live ammo.  Soon as you get sloppy, dry fire.  
Don't chase good rounds after bad.  Shooting 150 rounds with out skill  is not training you to shoot well.  It's training you to get frustrated.

Concur with all above.  The three secrets of shooting accurately are:

1) Sight Alignment
2) Sight Picture
3) Trigger Control

Sight alignment simply means ensuring your front sight is perfectly aligned both vertically and horizontally with your rear sight. Keep in mind that if you jerk the trigger you can disrupt the sight alignment by imparting movement into the process. A smooth deliberate trigger press THAT MAINTAINS SIGHT ALIGNMENT throughout the motion is imperative. Remember that when shooting for accuracy your trigger press is not telling the gun WHEN to go off but WHERE to send the projectile.  Dry practice a smooth trigger press which maintains the best sight alignment you can maintain during the process.


Sight picture means making sure the tip of your front sight post is centered exactly where you want to send the round (while perfect sight alignment is maintained). Utilize the concept of "aim small, miss small". That means aims for a very small, very specific part of a target. For instance, on a bullseye style target don't merely aim for the center of the target, but aim for a specific piece of the X at the center of the bullseye. Sight picture also means a vivid and crisp focus on the front sight. The human eye can only focus one one thing at a time. As such, after verifying the sight alignment and that the tip of your front sight is over your intended target, your eyes must focus exclusively on the front sight. The target in the background will become blurry and your front sights will slightly blur as you hyper focus on the front sight while manipulating the trigger press. Your level of focus should be such that you can see little specks of dust on the front sight post and notice tiny little scratches on the paint. Although not natural at first with just a little dry practice you can train your eyes/brain to instinctively do this while shooting.


Trigger control (as mentioned above) is a skillful manipulation of the trigger which best maintains sight alignment.  As you smoothly transition the trigger back at some point the shot will break. Don't try to rush or anticipate when the firearm will discharge. Merely maintain a crisp focus on the front sight and trust that at some point in the process your shot will go out. It should be a surprise when the firearm discharges. Like many other sports/activities follow through is critical. If you immediately throw the trigger forward the second the shot breaks you are imparting movement into what should be a smooth and stable process. Focus as hard as you can to "trap the trigger" in the full rearward position for at least a second after the gun goes off.  Then ease the trigger smoothly forward until you can feel the trigger reset (you'll be able to hear an audible click if utilizing dry practice). Note that you are NOT letting the trigger go all the way forward/releasing the trigger but instead riding it forward in a controlled manner.  Your next shot will have a shorter trigger travel than if it had been released into the full forward position. Don't forget to trap the trigger to the rear on your follow up shot and work the trigger reset. Note that when dry practicing this technique at home, after pressing the trigger to the rear and holding it in the trapped position you'll have to manually rack the slide before practicing the trigger reset.


Trigger reset will also help one shoot ARs more accurately, but the concept is even more critical when shooting handguns. A few minutes of dry practice a night will pay tremendous dividends if you focus on the elements above. If you did that five minutes a night for a week prior to your next range outing I guarantee that you see drastically smaller groups.  For now slow down and concentrate on the fundamentals above. Don't worry about rapid fire. Before long they'll become second nature and you'll be able to apply these same techniques while shooting quickly.

To my way of thinking there isn't any glock that fits in with "sexy bitch" Black , plain jane (not Plane Jane) tools that work pretty darn well.

Throw away that silly chart , there can be some truth to it but 97% of the folks who are churning their guts over their shooting style while looking at that chart are not helping themselves one bit.

Expecting to be a decent shooter after three trips to the range is pretty unrealistic .

Get a bunch of targets and put them close enough so you can see every hit. You need to be able to see what actions are working . If you have so many holes in the paper that you are not sure which hit is what it is time to hang another target.

Practice , practice and more practice . Watch the sights and try to visualize where they were lined up when the trigger broke.
The theory is both sights are perfectly lined up and held rock steady when the trigger breaks but in practice what you are really doing is trying to minimize the sight/gun movement.

Shooting pistols is not at all like the crap you see in the movies and don't believe half the stories you hear about group sizes here.

Thanks for the advice, as far as sights, I am using stock glocks. I am looking at changing them out soon.

AS fa as focusing on the front, I am TRYING to keep that n my head, but most the time my eye's naturally want
to stare at my target.  Very hard habit to break.

As far as my grip, I am using the thumbs forward grip, as suggested from many vids. I MIGHT add the beaver tail
back strap next week as well and see if that does anything for my grip.

I don't use a GI Joe kung Fu death grip, but a firm grip with my firing hand {right hand} and a good grip with left support
hand.

WIll be going back to the range next Sat. I will have the target closer and post the results

Based on the fact that the rounds are all over the place I would say an inconsistent grip is your first problem.  You will never identify any problem until you hold the gun the same every shot.  Are you making minute changes to your grip between shots?

you have to crawl before you walk. get closer..like 3,5,7 yards..

Many folks upgrade the factory glock sights but for a range gun the factory sights are actually quite good . Most of the aftermarket upgrades are better for low light but will actually be not so great for range and target use .

Don't be in a big hurry to toss money at the sights thinking that will help your shooting

Not so great for range and target use? Dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

Also known as just having some raw discipline.  In all of my gun shooting, I have several hundred thousands of rounds down range in shotguns.  I was a AA shooter in sporting clays for some years.  Becoming a better shooter is not always fun!  Sometimes you have to grind and grind, and those are never on the things that you are good at......which would be fun.  

As Madcap has pointed out, "volume" bad practice is not good.  The very second your form IE; mount, sight picture, stance, and most importantly concentration fails, it's a useles waste of money from then on.  Being able to nut up, and grind thru, will make you a better shooter.  Then one day, as if by magic, you are a badass!

Edit:  If you want to see what extreme discipline looks like, look at some AAA skeet shooters.  There is not a bird on a skeet field that I haven't broken 25,000 times, literally.  But go shoot a 25....those come hard.  50's are stupid hard, and 100's are amazing.  Those guys can get switched on to a fucking amazing level!  But then they chill.  I realize I am talking about shotguns, and you are asking about a G19.  But the point is; concentracion, and being able to repeat the RIGHT thing, over and over is is much the same.  And then there is the days that everything lines up, and you are in the "zone".  Whole nother' thread.

I just got my g19 a couple months ago, and I have put right around 600 rnds through it. This was my target from Thursday. I am a lefty and I push right. On this target I'm drawing from my holster,  concealed and firing one round and trying to keep it as close to 1 second as possible. I fill I have a very good grip and I don't flinch, but I still push right. Maybe it's my stuby hands it's like my trigger finger is trying to reach to far. I'm thinking about taking my tlr -1 off because I can't reach the actuation lever for the light without breaking my grip.
The tip of my trigger finger just barely touches the back side of the lever.

You need to train with a "diagnostician" type instructor.

Not necessarily.
It's easy to get good on your own without any direct instruction.



I went from sucking with handguns, to being better than average in no time just by dry firing a lot.  Especially once I worked at a range and basically dry fired guns all day long.  From getting good to running my handgun like a beast didn't take much longer than going from bad to good.





IMHO at a basic level Instructors are best for people who are unmotivated to teach themselves and become comprehensive, or to bust through plateau's primarily.
 

Recommending a dry fire regime for getting better at action shooting, to a guy who's still working on marksmanship fundamentals is probably not going to help as much as you think it will.







 

OP, to gain concentration on the front sight, one thing you can try, and I always do it to get back to basics, is sit on a chair of edge of the bed, clear you pistol for safety, then get a good grip, get in position like you're going to dry fire, concentrate on the front sight...





...then start slowly moving the gun around in a random pattern always attempting to keep attention on the front site tip, and the sights aligned properly.





What you'll notice is that the front sight will want to lead the rear sights in travel.  You have to fight that and keep them locked in place while letting your arms move the gun around.





Basically the end result is training the small muscles in your hands not to break that sight picture while the gun moves. I do it a lot while laying in bed since the ceiling is white and gives a clear sight picture with no distraction. It also teaches you to naturally focus on the front sight regardless of other things going on.



It's a very fast way to build muscle memory for a correct sight picture.  It's a LOT faster than dry firing.   Then, when you DO go to dry fire, you can concentrate more on trigger pull, and your hands will be trained up to keep the sight picture steadier...
little building blocks...  put them all together and you get good eventually.  Some people need more blocks, some less. It's all about picking the right blocks at the right time though.

Glocks are a different animal for me. No troubles with my 686 or Security six, single or double action. Auto no problems with my S&W 6906, 1911, P85 ect. When I shoot my G19 or 17 I'm high and right. To be fair I don't shoot them often because they don't seem to point naturally. I'm afraid I'm going to change things and then I'll have troubles with my other handguns. I would suggest seeking an instructor to iron things out, I'm sure that would fix my problems....

Relax...

That sounds like a pretty good drill, I need to try it. Thanks.

I like it, basically you are doing the same exact thing as concentrating on sight picture dry firing, but for seconds to minutes at a time instead of breaking concentration all the time.  
It allows all the tiny hand muscles to get worked and develop muscle memory a LOT faster.
ETA-   FTR, it's a thing my buddy came up with bored one night, he didn't know if it was inspired by anything he saw along the way though.





 

i have this same issue with my G19 im left handed and my shots are going right at 7-10 yards. i went through 150 rds the other day and couldnt fix it. i dont know what im doing wrong but hopefully with my next range trip i will figure it out. i dry fire about everyday.

Oops, my bad,





I guess cognitive dissonance took over, since that is basically the EXACT OPPOSITE of helping the OP with what he's doing. Didn't realize that it was a live fire drill that would probably incur a terrible time debt to overcome.  So many people were talking about dry fire, since it's a known quick way to improve marksmanship.





Looking at the OP's target, and reading the description of the drill you posted;



"This is purposely a difficult drill. It is simple to set-up and execute but burns through ammunition."



Sounds great for improving fundamentals of marksmanship...

I was going to post the same

Before you change out your factory sights, try blacking out the rear notch with a sharpie.  It will help you be able to pick up your front sight quicker.  I did it on mine after doing a low light class.  The front sight got dirty and the bright rear sight really distracted me from picking up the front sight quickly.  Blacked them out, and now I do that to all of my sights, or change them out for a plain black rear sight with a fiber optic front.

Most of your shots left are most likely due to you gripping the gun too hard with your Strong hand (if you are right handed).  Grip the gun with your strong hand with about as much effort as it take to grip it with just your thumb and middle finger.  The support hand grips harder than the strong hand to enable the strong hand to maniuplate the trigger properly (smooth PRESS straight to the rear as others have said).

My suggestion for dry fire practice, look up the SIRT trainer.  It is the best firearms training invesment I have made aside from taking classes, and has improved my speed, accuracy, and manipulation tremendously.  If you find you are interested and need a discount code, IM me :).  Good luck!

I use Truglo TFOs but I black out the rear when shooting IDPA.

 

True.





Based on experience, probably bad habits.





 

Yarp. Closer is better.





Physically, the rounds group closer together allowing easier shifting of the group around through trying new techniques.



Mentally it's less frustrating since it keeps people from getting flustered over group size.



The Instructor I took over for at the range I ran would sometimes have targets only 6-7' away, with very small targets.



 

 

Somewhere, someway, one must learn or be taught the FUNDAMENTALS.