User Panel
Posted: 4/14/2005 2:31:11 PM EDT
I'm looking into getting an AK and was wondering what the levels of quality are on various rifles. I've been out of the AK loop for about 10 years, so alot has changed. Thanks.
|
|
|
First off, just about every AK will fire and function as well as every other AK out there.
Also quality can vary on kit builds depending on whose building it and which parts kit. But.. Lower Quality: Romanian AKs and Century Maadi's. Middle of the Rung Quality: Global Trades, Norinco MAK 90's, Intrac and Pars Maadi's, and most kit builders out there. Top of the Line Quality: Arsenal Inc, Polytech, Styer Maadi's, Valmets, basically all pre-89 AKs which have 100% factory parts installed. Ted Marshall, AKUSA and Krebs Custom. That's just my opinion and I'm no expert. |
|
|
In Order.
1) Russian 2) Bulgarian 3) Chinese 4) Polish 5) Hungarian 6) Madi(Egypt) 7) Romainian It my personal opinion but I might have forgotten 1 or 2. |
|
|
Best AK in terms of quality I have seen is the Robinson Armamnet Vepr.
It is a heavy gun built on an RPK reciever. Made in Russia. |
|
|
Cody, Soldier of Fortune. Kidnapping survivor.
USA
|
Every MAK-90 I've seen has something mucked up on it somehow. Had the gas tube that goes from the FSB to the receiver with inside rust, another one a canted FSB. However, I cant get into the Romanians and their trigger slap, sure it can be fixed but it sholdn't be built that way in the first place.
|
|
How can you rank chinese over hungarian and polish? I would have to say that polish and hungarian are a tie for quality and they are higher than chinese. Some Maadis are on par with russian guns also. |
||
|
100% Agree. I would also choose Maadi over Chinese any day!
Sammy
|
||
|
I'd actually rank the Chinese as the most robust in construction and actually having the best barrels. Their stampings are thicker on the stamped receivers and their milled receivers are forged. The chrome lining in the barrels in unparalleled IMO because the make so many of the darn things and the lining seems to be thick but consistent.
The Bulgarian Arsenal Inc rifles appear to be well constructed. I do not have experience with them yet other than handling. I do not know about their barrel quality, but their milled receivers are forged. They are probably the best deal in a new AK out there, and certainly the most variety in configurations available. Pre-Ban Maadis and the earlier all-Maadi thumbholes (with welded muzzle nuts) are well made where it counts, although somewhat rough in finish. I did have one that the chamfering operation for the extractor was missed, and it wouldn't chamber a round (extractor wouldn't slide over the case rim), but a little judicious work with a dremel duplicated the factory chamfer and solved the problem. The Maadi's shoot very well - and are authentic to the original AKM design. |
|
|
I have an Arsenal Inc. Sam-7 and it is an excellent rifle, probably the best you can get that is commercially made and manufactured in the US.
If you are looking to spend a lot of money I can strongly suggest having Chris at AK-USA build you one. His ak's are of the best quality that i have ever seen. I had him build me an ak-105 clone and in the next month or so he is going to start building me a Hungarian AMD-65. So it really depends on how much money that you are willing to spend but if I were you, I would start off buying an Arsenal that is commercially made because it is a great rifle and will also be less expensive as oppose to having one custom built. I like the custom builds now because you are getting a top quality rifle and you can have it built almost anyway that you want it. |
|
|
Go with the Bulgarian AK's. I have a Bulgarian AK74 that I purchased from Chris Butler with AK-USA and it is a outstanding firearm. I would strongly suggest this rifle due to it having an actual Bulgarian receiver on it, not an American made one. Just my opinion. Oh buy the way, it is very accurate. 2" groups open sights with quality RWS 5.45x39 ammo at 100yds no problem.
|
|
|
In Order.
1) Yugoslavian, The Nicest AK I have ever seen is a Yugo I purchased mid 80s. 2) Bulgarian (Mr Kalishnikov Himself was quoted as saying the Bulgarians make the best AK) 3) Russian 4) Chinese, Poly Techs with the spike bayonet just do it for me, Although I have heard the Bolt/Carrier metal is soft, I have no Idea if this is fact or fiction! 5) Polish 6) Hungarian 7) Madi(Egypt) 8) Romainian I left out the best AKs made; The Valmets, Galils & Sig 550 series. |
|
|
By quality do you guys mean fit and finish? Sheesh, my romies are as tough as my friends polytechs, maadis, etc, who gives a darn about finish, it's not a custom elephant rifle
As long as it oges BANG every time, cosmetics are a mute point that can be fixed later if desired. _________________________________________________ Dirty deeds....done dirt cheap |
|
|
Romanian factory hi-cap guns like the Sar series have perfect receivers. Barrels are fine but barrel parts (like the quality of the front sights) leave much to be desired. Nothing wrong with the romanians also. So many of them around they arent the "golden egg". |
||
|
I read that the Norinco AK47 was chosen by the Navy Seals as their AK47 of choice after testing all the variants. It was their heftier receivers and barrels. That includes the MAK90 versions. The Norincos I've had (5) were solid guns.
|
|
|
If they are like most military guys I know, special ops or not, I doubt they know all the variants, the countries they were made in, or the differences between them.
|
|
|
1) Russian
2) Bulgarian 3) polish 4)chinese 5) Hungarian 6) Egyptian 7) Romainian |
|
|
Have any of you guys seen a Robinson Armament Vepr???
I just recently purchased one and all I can say is WOW! I have seen just about every kind of AK and the Vepr is the best quality IMO. |
|
|
Yes, I have. My Valmet 62 is better. |
||
|
a WASR is by far the best
|
|
connoisseur of the Kalashnikov's
Colt's blow up a lot |
you guys are lumping 50 years of ak's together wich make no since like the russian rifles they went from good to bad to good and bounced all over the place really depinds on the year same gos for alot of them altho most did go downhill and just say down id also say the hung rifles are top 3 you guys have been getting beatdown amd's dirt cheap for so long you think they are crap look at the mechine work in them its excellent i think i gotta put bulgarian at the top but i would still take a russian in a heartbeat over a bulgi |
||
DO THE VOICES IN MY HEAD BOTHER YOU?
DON'T FEED THE MONKEYS |
+1 Their may be nicer ones out their like the Finish ones that I do not even think you can buy but I will spend $550 on a Vepr no problem. However personaly I would never spend what they ask for some AKs. Just my two cents. |
||
|
I agree Hungaian Ak's are very high in quality . If the same kits on the market where limited to a small amount and priced much higher than the $50-$60 that you could originally get a 65 for people would probably think more highly of them.
|
|
<img src=/images/smilies/anim_50cal.gif border=0 align=middle>MidwestArmory.com Check out our products page for the best prices on the web.<IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_bannana.gif border=0 align=middle>
|
I'm certainly no AK guy by any stretch of the imagination, but here's my 2 cents. Owned a SAR-1--it did not go bang every time. Double-fired and failed to feed every time. When I got it fixed, the trigger slapped like a bitch. Hated it. Sold it. Shot a .223 Chinese AK last week. It was OK I guess, but it also had a noticeable trigger slap. Didn't care for it. The Bulgarian AKs I've handled look real nice, but haven't had a chance to shoot one yet.
Buy an M1A or an AR. |
|
|
Here's the BEST right here.
Arsenal Inc.(Las Vegas) AK-74 modified by Chris ak www.AK-103.com It cost a pretty penny but by far the best finish in the industry, even more durable then the real Russian Enamel. |
|
"And when he gets to heaven, To Saint Peter he will tell:
One more soldier reporting sir- I've served my time in Hell" <img src=/images/smilies/smiley_salute.gif border=0 align=middle> |
Ask Templar about the Arsenal Inc. SA M-7 A1 or SA M-7 A1 R
|
|
The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. – Daniel Webster
|
|
||
"One day we will all learn that cool guy gear does not a shooter make"......Pat Rogers
|
Thanks Doc............ If we're talking about the "best quality that a US civillian is going to get his hands on"........then my list would be In order of preference, with milled receivers first, then the stamped. I'm basing this list on my personal experience and in both owning and shooting these things. I've owned (emphasis on past tense ) all of the pre-ban variations and most of the post import ban variations. I've certainly shot all of them and sold most of them. Milled: Arsenal Inc. M series milled receiver rifles Chinese Polytech Legends (milled receivers) Bulgarian SA-93 and SLR-95 Arsenal Inc. SLR-101 Stamped: Pre-ban Yugoslavians Pre-ban Hungarians Krebs/AK USA Builds based on the SAIGA receiver Molot VEPR's Arsenal Inc. SLR-105's (both nuetered and the A1 models) in 5.45mm Chinese stamped receivers Maadi's Romanian WUM/Romak/SAR series WASR-10's I'm still very, very suspect of the US made stamped receivers, I'd like to give them a few years on the market with people shooting the hell out of them to see how they hold up. It still astounds me that the most powerful, most industrialized country on the planet can't get someone to build a properly dimensioned, properly heat treated stamped receiver for an AKM. I did not include Galil's or Valmet's in the mix here. If I did, I'd say Galil first, then Valmet, but they are both so far ahead of the other's it isn't funny. |
||
"One day we will all learn that cool guy gear does not a shooter make"......Pat Rogers
|
I haven't fired a whole lot of them, but the Vector AK i have is the best I've shot so far.
|
|
|
Best AK is one that you don't ever want to part with nomatter what.
|
|
|
I have to wonder about all of you ranking the Maadi over the Romanian. Maybe we're lumping a lot of different models together here. If you are talking about the Maadi that was imported by Steyr before the ban, than I will agree with you, it was pretty good. If you are talking about the Maadi MISR, that started coming in at the same time or slightly before the SAR, give me a break. Every one I saw had canted sights and a finish that was worse than the SAR. The laquer on the wood was applied after the buttplates and sling swivels were installed as they were lacquered too! Some Romanians have trigger slap. Mine never have. In my experience, I would have to say they rate higher than they are being given credit for.
With regards to many of the others, unless you are buying an Arsenal with a Bulgarian receiver, your "Bulgarian" rifle is really Bulgarian parts assembled on an American receiver. The parts may be good, but the finished product is only as good as the receiver and the smith. If you use crappy century trigger parts you may end up with trigger slap, just like a Romanian. If you do a beadblast and blue on the receiver, you'll get a non-durable finish....like the Romanian. Same deal for any Polish, Hungarian, Yugo, E. German, Russian, etc. kits that you get today. Factory Russian imports that are converted by a quality smith are excellent rifles. Anthing that is pre-ban is almost universally good, but here you are talking mostly Chinese, some Yugo, some Hungarian and a few Egyptian Maadis. One thing to think about however, is that while a Chineses may be well made, durable and functionally perfect, you will be limited to chinese parts for the most part. Many of the European surplus parts, or parts made to fit European patterned rifles will not fit on the Chinese AKs without modification. This borders on snobbery, but if you get to understand and appreciate the details, the Chinese mix of AK47 and AKM design features begins to look a little odd, look being the operative word. Its only important if its important to you. Bottom line, money makes a difference. You aren't going to go order an Aresenal SLR 105 and expect to pay the same money you would for a SAR or WASR-10. If you buy a cheap rifle with the intent of gradually upgrading, expect the final cost to meet or exceed that of the "expensive" rifle by the time you are finally done. A cheap gun is only cheap if you are happy with it as it is. |
|
|
best ak?
the ones I build for myself of course |
|
Everythings better with a bit of kalashnikov
Friends Dont Let Friends Put AR accessories on AKs rest in peace my fallen AZ HTF comrades |
How good were those old 1950's era Russian type 3's ?
|
|
|
VEPRS over the Arsenal 105s?
|
|
Good pie. Good gun. Good God. ARFCOM's fun. Leisure_Shoot
|
Fit and finish on the Veprs is nicer than the Arsenal SLR-105's, but functionally they are the same, and the SLR's are already in "military" configuration, which you can't easily do to the Vepr. |
||
"One day we will all learn that cool guy gear does not a shooter make"......Pat Rogers
|
I had the opportunity to interview, in detail a lot of combatants in the 92-95 Bosnian War (most of them members of the AmEmb/USAID local guard force, Amb. PP detail, and MPRI interpreters) Cut and pasted from my original report below - (by the way, I own an Bulgie milled and a Maadi stamped, right now, as well as an AMD63 parts kit. The Bulgarian rifles are great. The Maadi is rough and I had the exact same extractor problem!) "....The Kalashnikov AK was far and away the universal favorite of my informants. It is utterly reliable and easy to strip. Cleaning supplies were not available; one unit in Sarajevo was instructed to coat all the internal parts of the weapon, including gas piston, with motor oil (!) as it was the only lubricant they had. (The AKs still worked.) Magazines were frequently 'jungle-clipped' with heavy tape, with the spare magazine's feed lips facing the dirt. This, too, seems to have created no problems for AK users! The AK was the preferred weapon for use in winter, in light forests, and in fog and smoke at ranges of up to 300 meters. It was typically used on full-auto, although some Ranger-type ("Diversionary") soldiers disdained full-auto fire for its inaccuracy and waste: "I was instructed by my commander to go on a mission with only a little food and munitions," said one. "The commander told me, 'You need more ammo or food? You know where to get it!' " (Capture it from the enemy.) The contending forces typically used identical weapons, and since the Kalashnikov was the standard Yugoslavian rifle, capturing ammunition was a popular method of supply. The first choice of most combatants was the original Russian/Soviet AK and the Yugoslavian ‘Crneva Zastava’ (‘Red Banner’ CZ for short) AK, which is thought to have the best quality control and the best barrel steel. The Yugo gun often has a spigot for rifle grenades. Unfortunately, many soldiers were injured because they forgot that they needed to remove the live round from the chamber before launching a grenade. Bulgarian and Hungarian AKs follow in popularity. I recently saw an Egyptian AKM. It was identical to the Maadi rifles (black paint finish) sold in the USA, but was equipped with select-fire and with a side-folding stock. The Romanian and Chinese weapons were universally condemned by scores of informants as having poor barrels that warped after only a few magazines of ammo had been fired at full-auto fire. This may or may not be an indication of performance for the semi-auto rifles from these countries which are imported to the USA." |
||
|
lse.,n.
|
|
|
The pictures of the worst I"ve seen here were built in a chicken coup.
|
|
|
Warping a barrel after only a couple of magazines
I fired about 200 rounds slow fire out of my no-ban rommie, and after all the targets were dispatched I had four 30 round mags left, so I got rid of their contents as quick as I could fire and reload. (mind you the rifle was already a tad warm at this point) Now I got to gauge my barrel to make sure it isn't warped ____________________________________________________ Dirty deeds.....done dirt cheap |
|
|
I agree with OODA_Loop 100%, I Own or have owned lots of AKs over the years,The Yugo stamped rec. AK is the finest made Stamped AK I have seen. They are also very rare here in the states, But there are some around; Some lucky bastard bought a Yugo under folder on the EE last year for $850. Beat me to it!!
|
|
|
Thanks- I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm just reporting what I heard. I'd like to have a Romy, a couple ChiComs, and a Yugo, myself! |
||
|
My .02......
1.Chinese 2.everything else! again YMMV |
|
Send lawyers guns and money....the shit has hit the fan..
|
I dunno about barrels warping......I have a friend with a RR Steyr Maadi that was converted prior to '86 and even after repeated mag dumps, it will still nail the hell out of a 12" gong at 200 meters.
Regardless, I doubt that any American civillian is going to shoot out an AK, especially a semi-auto variant. In conversations with people who import AK parts and also do a fair amount of international trade in AK's, I've heard that the quality of the Romanian AK's has taken a severe downturn after the fall of Nikolai Ceausescu and the ending of the Cold War. The three factories in Romania let most of the skilled workers go, without the means to pay their wages, and when they reconsolidated as private enterprises hired a bunch of people who weren't skilled. The rifles that the Indian gov't purchased from Romania were apparently failing after as little as 2K rounds of full auto fire. |
|
"One day we will all learn that cool guy gear does not a shooter make"......Pat Rogers
|
Going to temporarily tack this due to some requests.
|
|
"One day we will all learn that cool guy gear does not a shooter make"......Pat Rogers
|
+1 Chinese is best inside and out. Polytech stamped or milled. |
||
|
I would like to have a Vepr. However I strongly dislike the hacked receivers. I am hopeing that now the ban is gone. I am hopeing they will import some nice folders.
|
|
|
Doesn't the Yugo AKs lack chrome-lined barrels?
|
|
|
The Yugos I have seen were all chrome lined. |
||
|
Yes |
||
connoisseur of the Kalashnikov's
|
Wont happen |
||
connoisseur of the Kalashnikov's
|
The Yugoslavians never chromed their barrels.
They were the only county to my knowledge that didn't. |
|
"One day we will all learn that cool guy gear does not a shooter make"......Pat Rogers
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.