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Posted: 8/16/2004 3:07:01 PM EDT
[#1]
tag 'cuz I find 'em interesting too
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Posted: 8/16/2004 3:32:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Don't know about the prices but I can tell you that they do indeed shoot good. Not a tack driver but acceptable by any recreational shooter's means.
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Posted: 8/16/2004 3:50:36 PM EDT
[#3]
saw a couple on gunsamerica.com for about $775....and one for 995....but it included scope etc...
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:55:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Russian SVD (real Dragunov) ~ $7000
Russian Tiger ~ $1500 Chinese NDM (308) ~ $1800 Chinese NDM (762x54r) ~ $2800 Romanian PSL/Romak 3 ~ $800 Yugo ? ~ ? Chinese NDM 308 is supposed to be very accurate. The 7.62x54r rifles suffer from having only surplus ammo. No match grade available. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 6:56:43 PM EDT
[#5]
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.
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Posted: 8/16/2004 6:58:14 PM EDT
[#6]
I've seen some in SGN recently, about $650 IIRC
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Posted: 8/16/2004 7:49:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Yep, and they will never be as accurate as an AR10 you could build for the same $$$$. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 8:01:11 PM EDT
[#8]
You are paying for rarity of the Russian and Chinese Dragunovs. Very few of these were imported with no more in site.
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Posted: 8/16/2004 8:21:34 PM EDT
[#9]
But an AR10 won't round out an AK collection the way a dragonov will. 
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Posted: 8/16/2004 8:41:40 PM EDT
[#10]
My cousin, kythri got a real nice (what appeared to be unfired) Chinese NDM-86 in 7,62x54R at one of the last Portland fn shows for $2100 (IIRC). He could tell you about how it shoots, but the only time he ever brought it out to shoot, he forgot the magazine (the Drag isn’t really happy about single loading) so there’s only been about 10 rounds down the pipe. Really pretty rifle though; he switched out all furniture for the Russian black plastic stuff. He’s busy packing to move right now, but maybe he’ll chime in.
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Posted: 8/16/2004 9:33:50 PM EDT
[#11]
I heard a Romak uses a diffrent gas system then a Dragunov, what is the difference?
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Posted: 8/16/2004 10:35:22 PM EDT
[#12]
IIRC the Romak's are scaled up ak actions, whereas the Drag's use a short stroke variant of the AK action. The Romak also uses a RPK-47(I think)reciever. Where the Drag use's a standalone dedicated reciever.
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Posted: 8/16/2004 10:36:56 PM EDT
[#13]
The Romak is similar to that of an AK rifle where the gas piston is connected directly to the bolt carrier.
The Dragunov uses a system similar to that of the SKS or M14 rifles. Gas pushes a piston which in turn pushes another part (operating rod in the case of the M14) which accuates the bolt. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 11:24:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Is there a big advantage to one compared to the other on a Drag?
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Posted: 8/16/2004 11:47:15 PM EDT
[#15]
I Shot a ruskie Drag that some retired (asian) Ruskie Admiral had. Shot real nice ad was indeed purty, and I aint into their guns that much.
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Posted: 8/17/2004 3:24:54 AM EDT
[#16]
fist, it needs to be said...the dragunov is NOT a sniping rifle. it is a squad marksman rifle. i've shot them with handloads and they are NOT all that.
Is there a big advantage to one compared to the other on a Drag? collectibilty. a romak3/fpk.psl isn't gona be worth a gazzllion dollars. ever. it's an ak clone imported in sufficient numbers to limit its' worth. the yugo and russian squad marksman rifles are valuable due to both quality of manufacture and the limited number of reifles imported. the same can be said for the valmet squad marksman rifle...which just may well be the most accurate of the lot. the russian drags are way overvalued, imo...but, that the market state as it stands. if the russians win their trade suit and get to import more, the prices will fall so fast the nose bleeds will up kimberly-clark's stock 400%. if they lose, drags, valmets and yugo's will comtinue to do better than my 401K. the chinese rifles do just as well as the russian models, despite the chimtzey finish. some folf think the chinese rifles are partially russian in parts makeup and i agree with this assessment. the .308 is still priced near reasonable and the 54r model is not to far off the mark, imo. $5k for a rifle v. $5k for full auto is a no brainer in my book. |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 4:52:19 AM EDT
[#17]
I am by no means a great shot. That being said my personal best with my NDM-86 in .308 shooting Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" 168gr match & using a cheap Russian 8x scope is 4 shots ctc into .44" at 100yds and 3 shots ctc into .24" at 100yds. Tomac |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:01:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Wolf has the "New" 7.62x54mm 148 grain that shoots awsome. |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:46:55 AM EDT
[#19]
yeah, I've never been a fan of AKs or any weapons of the "badguys" but the Drag is pretty slick looking and it does pack a pretty good punch
This is all good info...thanks much |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 3:13:55 PM EDT
[#20]
If by 5 shots into 2 inches at 100m is awesome the yes it is awesome. |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 3:16:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Hahahaha.
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Posted: 8/17/2004 4:36:33 PM EDT
[#22]
w/ a scope???
Good Lord man....that is nothing to brag about |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 4:44:57 PM EDT
[#23]
It is not match ammo, it is only good ball ammo. That was with a scope from a heavily sandbagged rest.
I think people tend to exagerate their group sizes. Mine is the honest to goodness truth. |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:38:58 PM EDT
[#24]
what mag on the scope?
I get similar groups 1.5-2 MOA with my M1A....shooting Nato 146... I recently used M118LR and got outstanding results -- hitting steel plates from 800 yrds w/ a 5mph 3 o'clock wind...I was fired up |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:44:42 PM EDT
[#25]
That is some excellant shooting, but it is the exception for that platform. |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:50:23 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm not so certain of that. The vast majority of .308 NDM-86's that I've read/heard about demonstrate exceptional accuracy w/match ammo. I'm planning a trip to the range this weekend to sight in my son's NDM-86 for him and if it exhibits worse accuracy than mine then I'll post the results here. Tomac |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:47:03 PM EDT
[#27]
If you don't like milsurp 7.62x54R, roll your own. I've been using S&B brass for handloads, but I think there's new commercial brass available for that cartridge...
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Posted: 8/17/2004 10:18:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Thanks for the info. On my list is an Ar10 or similar and now also a Romak, I shot one at BF this year and I now want one.
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Posted: 8/18/2004 7:03:48 AM EDT
[#29]
what scopes do people put on there...I don't think you'd want to stick with the el cheapo that comes with it...
Do people put the IOR family of scopes on there? How is that glass? |
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Posted: 8/18/2004 8:30:39 AM EDT
[#30]
IOR is darned nice glass!
Most use one of the larger PSO scopes, which my limited sampling finds abit brighter than the 4x24s. |
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Posted: 8/18/2004 6:37:02 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm currently using the new Russian 8x42 w/mildot reticle & .5moa adjustments. Tomac |
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Posted: 8/18/2004 10:48:06 PM EDT
[#32]
1" tube or 30mm?
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:31:43 AM EDT
[#33]
A little bit larger than 30mm (can still use the 30mm ScopLevel but the fit isn't perfect). No rings needed as it has the same integral mount as the other 8x42 scopes. Here's on on Ebay: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31714&item=3694674029&rd=1 Tomac |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 7:54:49 AM EDT
[#34]
Nice reticle there for detail work.
I scored a 4-8x42 weaver base for $160 at a show last spring. Drag reticle grows with mag, so sight picture does not change, and is illuminated. Feet are too close to bridge a bolt gun, but it swaps readily on other semis. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 12:55:16 AM EDT
[#35]
These rifles can shoot. If you are compareing them to a Remington 700 you will probably be disapointed. Part of their charm, is history, rareity (at least in the US) don't forget, dang they look cool. None the less, they can shoot, here's some groups.
Tiger with wolf http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731wolftigr2.JPG http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731wolftigr.JPG NDM-86 .308 with hand loads http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731NDMload.JPG Hilljack |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 1:27:16 AM EDT
[#36]
I too owned an NDM in .308 (and sold it like an idiot). I had the entire gun refinished (grey park) and it was a beauty...at the time I could not find a good picatinney or weaver scope base for it (which is one of the reasons why I sold it)...I had a B-Square piece of shit mount that broke after 5 rounds (good thing my USO scope didn't fall and hit the floor)....but it was very accurate even though I only had a 4x PSO to work with. I'd love to buy another one....if anyone sees one for sale for a reasonable price, I'd be interested. :)
Now as for the difference...the Russian and Chinese rifles are REAL DRAGUNOV designs. The others are just RPK's or AK's designed to LOOK like a Dragunov and that's about it. As for comparing it to the AR-10....I owned a AR-10T and it had FTF and FTE problems. Sent it to Armalite for fixin' and got it back with the same problems (not as often though). Armalite ended up just giving me a brand new AR-10T which I am in the process of trading out for a wristwatch...obviously had a lemon but after reading about other people's problems, I decided that the AR-10 is just not the .308 platform for me as I will not own a gun I can not trust. My NDM never had a single failure.... I wouldn't even mind seeing a domestically made Dragunov with some upgrades (change the buttstock a little, add a solid picatinny rail platform, etc...)....I think it has some potential.... |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:39:27 AM EDT
[#37]
If the AWB goes....does that open up real drags/tigers to the US market or are they covered under some other import ban?
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Posted: 8/20/2004 8:19:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Other ban covers the importation of said Russian and Chinese weapons.
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Posted: 8/20/2004 10:19:57 AM EDT
[#39]
As much as I love shooting my mosin I've often considered getting a rommy semi auto for this round
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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:45:51 AM EDT
[#40]
so considering that Drags and Tigers are pretty much unobtainium....would anyone recommend a Yugo or a Romainian "drag"? Or would it be a waste of $$?
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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:56:01 AM EDT
[#41]
The Yugo "sniper" rifles will set you back $$$$$$. The Romanian "Dragunov"  seems to be the way to go. I'd go for the proper long barreled version, the short "paratrooper" seems an answer to a question nobody asked. 7.62x54R out of a 16.5" barrel??? And it costs more???
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Posted: 8/28/2004 11:22:22 AM EDT
[#42]
yeah saw
Dragunov Sniper Rifle, Romanian .762 x 54 100% new in box , These sniper rifles are built in Romania & imported into the United States , built in scope rail & 4 x 26 military scope, real wood dragunov stock set , very accurate & light recoil, 23 inch barrel with built in muzzle brake make this a extremely accurate rifle at long ranges .Ammunition is very plentiful & cheap this unit is a must have for any military rifle collection .Rifle comes 100% new with scope & 10 round mag Sale Price $789.00 from atlantic firearms...definately want the 7.62x54mm those 200grn rounds look like damn mortar rounds. My only hesitation is that I hate buying the weapon of the "bad guys" I hate seeing those iraqi hunks of shit aiming at our boys with these. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 12:02:17 PM EDT
[#43]
It's good to know your enemies weapon. Then, you'll be able to use the AKs and ammo you pick up off of their bodies
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Posted: 8/28/2004 2:21:18 PM EDT
[#44]
roger that....
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Posted: 8/28/2004 6:55:04 PM EDT
[#45]
What's wrong with the scope that comes with the Romak III??? |
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Posted: 8/29/2004 9:13:00 AM EDT
[#46]
I got to handle 1 ea. Chinese & Iraqi Dragunovs today quite interesting. The Iraqi is somewhat rough in comparison. I also got to handle another Romanian PSL today. I am going out to shoot them in the next few days for fun.
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Posted: 8/30/2004 9:41:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Thats with YOU shooting.
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Posted: 9/7/2004 5:29:06 AM EDT
[#48]
The Romak-3/PSL comes with a 4x scope. It's not really bad in terms of optics and quality, but 4x isn't a whole lot of glass.
I shoot with a 8-32x44 scope on my VEPR K (16" barrel, 7.62x39) set at 8x or 9x and its a real joy to shoot on the weekends. Robarm claims 1 MOA performance from the VEPRs using good ammo. I managed to grab a 0.5"-0.6" group at 50 yds using Wolf 122gr FMJ (it was a fluke really) so I can't say that it's impossible... but do-able. Realistically the VEPR is capable of 1-2 MOA consistently with the right ammo (as in, you can pretty much shoot between 1-2 MOA at 100yd all day long). You can't even see the points of impact on a 100yd or 200yd target with a 4x scope unless you have 20/10 - 20/20 vision. Just remember the trajectory for 7.62x39 (zero'd at 100yd) is like a rainbow at 200yd+ and you should be fine using Kentucky sighting ;) I dunno much about 7.62x54R but it should be a fairly accurate rifle (PSL and SVD/Tigr). |
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Posted: 9/7/2004 5:35:18 AM EDT
[#49]
I have also been looking at these as I have one at a local shop in 308... While I like the looks I keep putting it off because of too many other projects and too little $. Sure makes me wonder if these will be a collectable in the future as there are not many of them that you get to see....
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Posted: 9/8/2004 8:31:58 PM EDT
[#50]
I have a Romak-3 coming. I remember back in the day when the Chinese "Dragunovs" seemed plentiful. Next thing I knew, they were gone and the prices shot up.
I don't know if the Romak-3's will dry up, but I know I want mine!
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