Any intrest?

And what, pray tell, do you plan on doing when you get there? :)

Getting fitted for a bride's maid dress are we?

HA, that's a good one sg, actually I had spoke with Mr. Howland about goin there to pick up my items and see SAI's chicken shit outfit first hand. I intend to get a few pictures.

I intend to go solo, but if anyone else was thinkin the same there may only be a short time to do this if things get confinscated, I don't want to wait another 3 years.

I would check in first with local LE and inform them you are going to retrieve your property.  No sense winding up with a trespass citation for all your trouble.  No doubt they must be very familiar with this "smith" after all the goings on of late.

Regards,
Gary

I have been contemplating the same trip...
hmmmmm...

Sounds like a decent idea, but just make SURE you clear it with KAG first, so you don't mess up their/your case.

take care,
Tec

Hmmm, a few strange parrallels here, adventure to Kansas, fraught with danger..... hmmmm

"Lions and tigers and SWAT TEAMS, OH MY!"

Wear red shoes, something about clicking.

If this guy answers the door, don't take any guff, insist on seeing the wizard!

When I made my trek to SAI Building A, no one I spoke with in Harveyville knew that a "Gun Smith" lived there. They had not heard of Gary ethier, I tracked him down thru the Volunteer Fire Departments 911 system.

As others have said, tell the Local Johhny Law about your plans. Do not telegraph the time and day you plan to arrive or GG will not be there or answer the door. Plan on a extended wait. Get some advice from a competent attourney well versed in Kansas Law. Take plenty of pictures and video - it will be entertaining.  

If Harveyville wasn't such a hike from OH I would meet you there to pick up my bolt carrier assembly and bolt that asshole "forgot" to include with my rifle. I'm assuming that was pay back for me filing with the KAG.

This s#$t is getting ridiculous. I mean, can't the cops just simply go over there to sort stuff out? Are they that damn busy? I'm still naive to think that most police officers are interested in retrieving private property perhaps. Who knows.

I bet Gary skipped town by now. He's probably out of state.

I hope you guys get your stuff back ASAP.

rw66, yes sir, he's tried everything he can do and more to keep my things there. After reading all the posts he's made about gettin even with all the "complainers" by delaying there return dates (reading between the lines) I will be goin there personally to pick up my things.

This little skinny fuck is still thinkin he can pull out of this one and keep a reputation.
This punk is done for!

I tried to register onto HIS "Ultra Secret" forum BUT I guess he really doesn't want any "complainers", "For SAI customers" is what it says. Hell gentleman, I figured after "paying" up front that made me a customer.

Yes sir, he'll never pull outta this one. If D. Fortier writes anything good about this looser, it'll be the end of him also.

I'm thinkin of leavin tomorrow yet....I may leave next weekend. My return date is May 18th.

Like I have said earlier, I did talk with Mr. Howland about this and he gave me his OK as long as I didn't try and pull anything stupid.

I haven't told anyone this before but I've been to see mr.sai back in Aug 2001. I had spoken with him months in advance about my trip to see my mamma and that I would be passin through there. Of course he welcomed the idea with open arms. I had emailed him when I left, told him when I figured I'd be there and when I did get to the town of Harveyville I went right past it! After turnin around, I called him to let him know I was in town yet he didn't return my call. So I started askin around and like Bulletslap said, noone knew anything about this guy. I ended up talkin to some old mail guy who directed me with the address that ended up bein some kinda goose chase but bein a deep South country boy who likes to chase critters in the river swamp, he wasn't to hard to find after awhile. His grandpas place actually had the address. To make a very long story as short as possible. I pulled up to this shit hole of a trailer with about 3-5 little foo-foo dawgs inside and a computer stuck against the window. I got out knocked and no answer. I walked around back and saw his "shop" I guessed. In a previous conversation with the "master" he had told me that his shop had been damaged by a wind storm. Well gentleman, it was a plywood shed, 8x8 blown completly down. I tried the front door again and no answer. To varify that I had the right place for the 3rd or 4th time I drove all over that same country again to verify that address was to that dump he called a house. Came back, knocked on the door and drove around for one more time. When I knew for 1000% that this was the place, I pulled up and this time there was a note on the door that was addressed to the delivery guys saying to hold all deliveries! Let me tell you, I came unglued!!

Anyhow, later he pulled some shit that he had to go to see his brother, blah-blah-blah. When I came back through after tellin him I was coming(big mistake)he did the samething. I called his house from town there and gave him a real good piece of my mind and let him know I wasn't gonna leave town until I got ahold of him and I was gonna call ATF and who ever I could if I didn't hear from him. I kid you not, in 10 minutes this woman pulls up askin if I was me. It was his mamma and she was shakin like a leaf. Anyhow the excuse on this one was that they had found out that April was pregnant (with Joseph). She took me to her house and that's where I meet Louis, Gary's mammas husband. Louis had told me that gary didn't even do the lathe or mill work on the rifles or even any weldin and that all he did was assemble them and paint'em. Then I figured what the hell, he's gonna have a child.

When I got back to Montana, I emailed him to finish 6 of the 15 projects I had with him. This dumb fuck started to argue with me. Finally after 3 days of this he agreed to send the remaining items. Well that's been since the end of Aug 2001 and I still haven't gotten all my parts back even after sendin money 3 times!

When I filed with the KAG (thanks Bulletslap) I sent them some 1 1/2" of email for the 2 1/2 years of this bs. There was a time a year ago that I "headed up a posse" to go after gg, this is what he said, remember that dandts? Well after I threatened with a lawyer he sent me a specific reply that stated he could have the KAG drag all this out and that I would have to come to Kansas and his "uncle lawyer" would keep delayin it. I'm sure Mr. Howland didn't like that very well, hee hee.

OK OK I'm done. I could go on for a very long time about this and never tell everything that I have gone through with this puke. He thinks complainer...I ain't even got started.

The FBI will be the next contact....the saga continues....

"the Posse" how could I forget, all the promises, the name calling, and the BS stories we got from GG,... nothing has changed. ...been a long time..didn't recognize the new handle so I wasn't sure if it was my fellow "posse member"  posting this...I guess we are no better off with this situation than we were in 2002 when he had this discussion.

How does he fit all this into a wooden shed???

This came off the Solstice Arms Website:

About SAI Custom Gunsmithing....
Simply Put, We are the Home of "The Best"

SAI is a Type 07 SOT (Class II manufacture) well established since 1995.

We perform all of our own semi-auto, NFA firearms, and custom parts manufacturing.

We have a full in-house machine shop utilizing equipment from Starett Precision tools, Bridgeport, Southbend, Wilton, and others.

We maintain a large inventory of original AK factory production tooling not available commercially.

Our refinishing facility offers huge variety  - not just "parkerizing" and "molycoating".  
We also offer authentic rare imported firearm enamels, oxynate and Belgian bluing, nickeling, both mil. spec. zinc and manganese phosphate, and other advanced "tactical" finishes.
SAI specializes in custom refinishing and restoration of domestic and foreign military weaponry.  Having manufactured literally hundreds of rifles, SAI has earned a superb reputation for the finest custom Kalashnikov rifles available in the US.  We currently perform a number of services for other gunsmiths and companies in the trade as well, offering services to them at reduced rates.
In recent years we conducted extensive research  to prefect our techniques and knowledge of authentic Russian, Bulgarian, and Hungarian Kalashnikov manufacturing and restoration.  We have spent many hours and finances in purchasing and/or duplicating many hard to find or rare tools of the trade.  As a result, we are the only known U.S. Kalashnikov armory with a complete assortment of authentic tools, Cyrillic and arsenal stamping avalible.

It is our belief that there is more to gunsmithing then just being able to assemble a firearm.  At SAI we employ only trained gunsmiths and toolmakers for their comprehensive knowledge and expertise of ALL fields of the trade,  not just a select few. Our personnel are certified armorers of well known companies such as H&K, Glock, and S&W . If you are purchasing a new firearm, or just having a favorite one  restored, you should rely on getting the results YOU want. Combining both original proven manufacturing tools and techniques with the latest laser alignment and precision machining technologies insures that our quest to produce the finest, most reliable, and accurate firearm every time becomes a reality. Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

Having manufactured literally hundreds of rifles (but returning almost none)SAI has earned a superb reputation for the finest custom Kalashnikov rifles available in the US.(but you can only have one if you promise not to whine, complain or file with the KAG and kiss Gary's ass for untold years)

Our refinishing facility offers huge variety  - not just "parkerizing" and "molycoating". (Rust coating at no cost when the shed roof leaks)

It is our belief that there is more to gunsmithing then just being able to assemble a firearm.(You have to know how to run a con job) At SAI we employ only trained gunsmiths and toolmakers for their comprehensive knowledge and expertise of ALL fields of the trade(this includes making bridal wear),not just a select few. Our personnel are certified armorers of well known companies (Toys-R-US, Mattel)

dandts, I couldn't use my handle over here. Those were sometimes last year. He made several mistakes on his email replies with comments that will be great evidence for the FBI when I file with those guys.

Way back in 2000 when I first made the mistake of believeing this guy, he had stated to me that he had a room full from top to bottom with boxes of projects. He had also stated that he was puttin out some 20+ rifles a week. This is the only reason I even sent him what I did. Gary only stated the list of tools he had sometime after my visit when he had Kevin come join in. I had even gotten out at his grandpa's place and looked around for a shop before I realized that the trailer was it. I never saw a shop at any location besides the plywood shed.

Campy, this is a stupid story. I was VERY stupid for sending someone I don't even know so many items. I'm down $8K as we speak. This includes a customers FAL that I sent to sai in 2001 for rebarreling, cryo and trigger work, paid in full.

I am the fool here, big time. I should have known from the experience I had with Prewitt that this may happen.

It's real funny that he mentioned he only hired "certified armorers". On many of the last conversations gary stated that he had some guy he would only let do some bead blastin. I would only guess he's a "certified" HOSER.

Preban Norinco Krink conversion w/extended Bulgarian comp. I purchased the 5.56 AKS-74NU kit from K-var when they went down from $999 to $599. I have $1200 in this rifle alone.

Preban Norinco AK101 conversion. I purchased the AK74-M1A1 parts from K-var for $650, Russian poly folder $125, Bulgy 24mm FSB w/comp etc. I have close to $1800 in this one.

2 simple rivet jobs that included 2 Mak90 barrel ass. riveted to some Hesse recievers.

A full out Prewitt f#ckup that wouldn't even feed a round when returned from Prewitt. This one was returned, "shoots great". When I recieved it, it wouldn't even fully chamber a round. I eneded up stayin up till 2 am that night workin a bolt by hand. I did get a chance to shoot it 3 times (yet it never would feed the next round) before the FS/GB w/extended Bulgy comp went flyin down range. It was night so I only saw a blur, after that is when I realized what had happened. When I found the front end and took it inside I was totally shocked to see that the barrel had been turned down to much to the point that the front end would slide over the barrel freely with no restriction, pin holes had been drilled 3 times and it had locktite to hold the front end on. "I'll rebarrel it" was his cry.

Finally a FAL I sent for a customer to be "tricked out".

I have some 5 AK recievers there from other projects that I requested back, a model A Uzi reciever, a 5.54 Krink parts set etc., etc.

He won't have much of a gunsmithin life when all this is done with....to be continued....

Bluewhistler where are you?

A couple of years ago someone called the bluewhistler was calling us all saps for believing GG's stories.  Said GG was full of it and we would never see anything from GG.

Seems he knew what he was talking about.  At the time it was too late for me GG already had my parts.

Anyone know if Bluewhistler's still around.

cinci

Econfina, I remember when you said I had vendeta against SAI. It sure sounds like something has changed on your end. Just a word of advice, seeking vengance ( a vendata) is pointless, but pursuing justice is another matter.

On the subject of Fortier doing an artical on SAI, If he would like to shoot my AK47 pistol as part of the review, it is available for him to shoot (any one have his email address?). Of course, there will have to be an ambulance standing by to take the shooter to the hospital.

tktm,

I think many are realizing that they were wrong to speak in support of this "fine smith."  It will be up to those of us who hung tough in the face of their critism to forgive.  

I for one have already done so.

Regards,
Gary

Econfina ? Hector that must be you. You have my Email Address. Depending on the date of the Harveyville visit, it is possible that I might be in Kansas. Let me know by Email.

tktm, yep that was me. I even remember Blue Whistler. Man this has been a horror story that may never end unless I go there and confront gary face to face for my things back.

I'm sure glad this forum is here.

By the way, I hope you all are havin a great Easter. I am enjoying my children hunt the eggs they colored yesterday.  

Bulletslap, I'll be contacting you in a minute. Did you ever get your rifle?

rw66, what part of Ohio are you in? If we could work it out, I'd be willin to pick you up.

I would suggest you take a long a video camera and document the whole thing.

Since Gary is not responding to my emials, looks like I will contact the local Sheriffs Dept. and the Topeka office of the ATF, and make a little surprise visit to Mr. Guccianos
humble abode, this week.  

ya know, I have no dog in this, but I have had a few heating emails with Pete( I was warned I can't use his screen name without his permission) Aka Beauhunt about the "involvement" of Gunsnet.  Bottom line, if they have not been named as a co-defandant by the KAG or any other court, then they are nothing but friggin spectator, why in the hell does anyone have to notify them of their builds in order to receive "help" I wonder if they are trying to defray any possible lawsuits from the whole mess by pretending to care.

...

yep campy he actually said that, I kept the PM, someday I might do a video documentry  called something like " Dumb.Nutz idiotic posts mixed with legal opinions by Waldo"  I think it would actually sell. What do you think?

Mr. Gucciano just threatened to sue me, if I publicly defame him.  I guess I am the "bad guy" for wanting my rifle back after 26 months....Then he did his " you want the rifle back the way it is " ,uncompleted, of course, bullcrap.... What a guy.  Good thing I am a
"buddy" of his.

It was always my understanding that the truth was an affirmative defense in libel and slander?  Hmmmmmmmmm......any lawyers out there wish to comment further?

Regard,
Gary

Well, I'm in Kansas.  You guys want me to go along as the designated driver?

I have no iron in this fire but since it's happening n my backyard my interest's piqued.

I'm in Wichita.  How far is Gary from me?

Richard

Quoted: yep campy he actually said that, I kept the PM, someday I might do a video documentry  called something like " Dumb.Nutz idiotic posts mixed with legal opinions by Waldo" ?

I don't know if the video has ever been done, but do a search on Sovereign Citizens, Common law copyrights, also check out the FREEMAN. With a little searching you will see where they get their legal theories.

I found it interesting when I saw similarities between SAI and AK-47.net copyrighting their emails and private messages and pretty much all their communication. They seemed to do it together around the same time too (I wonder if they were working together, hmmm?)   I believe that SAI/Gucciano and AK-47.net are under the impression (or would like other people to believe) that if they copyright their "frauds" and incriminating statements, that those statements can't be used against them in a court of law because of possible copyright violation. I believe they also threatened some other websites with similar “copyright” actions.

The worst case I ever heard of this is a guy who copyrighted his own name in an effort to fight off the Federal Court. He claimed the court could not use his name in any documents because he had copyright on his own name; hence they had no legal power over him. Of course you can guess what the court did. He actually tried to fight back by charging the court $100,000 every time they broke the "copyright" on his name.

Apparently SAI and AK-47.net had the same "copyright" legal advisor.

 Good luck to anyone that has a rifle build, refinish, or any other such work w/ gg. I hope you see it before you die. We have all been taken for a ride. gary will only respond to those who he thinks he can string along further or threaten in one way or another as posted above.

tktm-
i think you are right about the copyright thing being worthless, its just like mail, there is no way to copyright it and forbidden for it to be used if it was sent to its intended party.  Prime reason I have saved all my foul emails from Wacky Waldo the admin/night lawyer.  I would love to see it wind up in court, bottom line if they mail it to you, to your attention, you can do with it what you please.

Here is why my Lawyer used on all his email, not how much better this is than the dime store advice used by .Nutz:

This electronic communication (including any attached document) may contain privileged and/or confidential information.  This communication is intended only for the use of indicated e-mail addressees.  If you are not an intended recipient of this communication, please be advised that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this communication or any attached document is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and promptly destroy all electronic and printed copies of this communication and any attached document. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal crimial law.



I am not a lawyer, but I got one hell of a blow job at a Holiday Inn last night :)

JJB, gucci goo used that same note with alot of his email back in my "posse" days w/Beryl, D&Ts, Sky Charger, Templar and another cat who bailed early during the "lynchin" as gary called it.

MRW, I don't have a map handy but Harveyville is north east of you. Gary lives just north of town, take a left on Dragoon Rd., first shit hole trailer you come to on the right. He has a couple of junk vehicles in the yard one is an Toyota MR2, if it's still there. Then you'll come to the top of a slight hill and on the same side of the road you'll see the mail box with the only addy that fits. This is his grandpa's place, an old white farm house w/some out buildin's behind the house.

Here is the latest quote from Assformer.....
He is really taking the KAG seriously.....

_______________________________________________"As for the KAG crap.... I can only assume you have read and believe the kind of crap that some people spew. Its humorous really, as I have a letter from KAG stating they are not interested in any legal action at all. They have suggested that I just return some peoples things, yet I have insisted on doing the right thing and finishing the projects. That in itself are the facts, so its a good idea to know what a state funded agency is willing to do before making the threat. Thanks."

GG/SAI
_______________________________________________

Okay, he's up south of Topeka.  That's about two hours from me.  If anybody swings up through Wichita on the way I'm game to go.

ROAD TRIP!  

Jeeez,

Now I have heard from two places that SAI is just a broken down hillbilly trailer and a BLOWN DOWN plywood shed.

Uh, I think I see the problem.

Gary would almost have to be subletting out the work on the gunsmithing.

So if he does that then GARY would have to be PAYING someone else to do the work.

So if Gary SPENT all the money he was prepaid then he would NOT be able to pay for the gunsmithing services he has to hire out.

And if you did not prepay, well, you have to wait until some other sap prepays and you end up being the next lucky sucker.

It sounds like a PONZI scheme and fraud for sure.

I really want to hear about any upcoming trip to SAI and what you guys find.

Back when I called the Harveyville Sherrif last year they were very unsure about just who Gary or SAI was (as Harveyville is a wide spot in the road) until I told them I was having a problem getting property (guns) back from there.

THEN they knew exactly who I was talking about.

Something is way wronger than I ever figured if what you guys think you are onto is true.

Not EVEN a gunsmith or machinist? A collapsed shed?

Figures. It would sure explain just about all of the absolutely bizzare behavior.

Maybe that's why the SAI website shows nothing about the (fictional?) facility.

Wouldn't that be like major false advertizing if all Gary is is a crook that subs out all of "HIS" work to others?

And yeah, there should be no way that SAI should survive this.

Mike

"A trailer and a blown down shed"????

I thought he had a full time Gun Shop and did all the gunsmithing in his machine shop.

This is really getting strange.

Mikes post would explain why GG won't, or should I say can't send peoples parts/rifles back to them (he could have them sitting in someone elses shop waiting payment before there released). I remember him stateing he had a full machine shop and also claimed he had a custom "Laser alignment jig" (it's probably one of those Laser pointing pens mounted on a two by four). LOL

Quoted: Mikes post would explain why GG won't, or should I say can't send peoples parts/rifles back to them (he could have them sitting in someone elses shop waiting payment before there released). I remember him stateing he had a full machine shop and also claimed he had a custom "Laser alignment jig" (it's probably one of those Laser pointing pens mounted on a two by four). LOL

I remember the "custom Laser alignment jig" too! Must have been in the shed?

The laser must have gone haywire and vaporized his shop,poor guy.

Valmet_M76 (Mike) brings up a point I have not thought of before. Gee whiz, that's probably why he keeps asking for money from these people, eventhough they already put down deposits. This definitely sounds like a Ponzi scheme of sorts. Perhaps some projects went wrong with whomever he sent the guns out to, or he ended up spending too much of the money he received. I'm thinking the gunsmith he used to do his work found out about it and now is demanding a s#$t load of money since he or she is now involved in a massive case of mail and consumer fraud.

However, given that it seems like most gunsmiths know everyone else and some of the rifles Gary made were actually pretty darn good, why did he fall behind on builds when he got all of those orders? When you get more orders, you do more and more builds and keep the scheme GROWING, which is essential to any Ponzi scheme. Perhaps there was something in that broken shed, and it got taken out or somebody stole a bunch of stuff.

Did anyone check this guy's gunsmithing credentials? You should find out if he actually has that gunsmithing associate degree. I still think this guy is a complete and total fraud. We've seen ZERO pictures of his shop or business, and he has stone walled or threatened everyone in existence it seems.

If he really did get sick or a family disaster occured, it is not that difficult to simply state the truth and ship everyone's stuff back. However, I think he's just a crook playing us all on, and a visit by you folks is just what is needed. Perhaps the local sheriff should come along, and it would only take a day to get a local judge to issue a warrant to search the guy's property. This is serious stuff, especially when it comes to guns.

Mike may just have hit the nail on the head,I hadnt considered this option before and it possibly answers alot of questions regarding why he just wont return peoples property,now we have to wonder who might actually be in possesion of these rifles/kits/receivers??? I doubt if there all in the little house out back of the big house,the one with a half moon in the door...

I've been there, no shop, no tools, no service.