Wait a second on the "guns and kits ain't there" thinking. Some one named greywolf called and spoke to the auditing agent. Not sure if it is GREYWOLF2112 from here or GREYWOLF1 of falfiles of the one over at ak-47.net.

Perhaps if you are here you could shed some light on this. I remember you posting a name and contact info, seems like it was a female agent.

Nevermind, I found it;

Quoted: I actually spoke with the ATF inspector who did the inspection. Here is her contact info: Denise Lough Kansas City, MO ATF Field Office (816) 559-0778 She did confirm that she did a 2 day inspection, that all the books were in order and all receivers were there.  I forgot to ask if she could verify mine, though.  She also said there were a LOT of parts kits in boxes. I haven't heard from Gary in about a week now, which is a little troubling since normally we are in contact via phone or email at least once or twice every week. Ah, well - my ship date is coming soon.  I won't start to worry or do anything until that date passes.  But that date is the final line in the sand for me.  I MUST have my rifle returned by then or else I am screwed financially in a big way.  That is unacceptable.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the ATF only makes sure that the books balance in terms of receivers only.

Let me put forth the following hypothetical. Say a gunsmith gets sent 500 rifles from private individuals. He is supposed to list every weapon he receives in his book. But, lets say he only lists 200 of the 500 guns. The other 300 guns get spirited away, In addition, he spirits away every part but the receiver on the 200 guns he has listed.

One day the ATF shows up to "check" his books.
They take a look at the book and it says he has 200 rifles logged. The ATF goes through the shop and verifies that there is a matching receiver for every serial number listed in his book. If they wish to be extra careful, they check every receiver in the shop and make sure its listed in the book. If every thing matches up he is pronounced okay.

But is it really okay? No, because there are 300 guns from private individuals that the ATF does not know are there. Not only that, but all the parts for the total 500 rifles are not accounted for either. So what does a gunsmith in such a position need to do? Well first he has to keep as many people as possible from filing complaints as long as possible. IF a complaint shows up for a weapon he cannot account for he is in big crap. At that point his best option is to try to make a deal with the complainant and supply him with something other than what he sent in and thereby make the complaint go away. In addition, it would probably be wise to keep a "pile" of parts in the shop so the ATF  does not become suspicious of only finding receivers.

Is that the case with Gucciano?; who the hell knows? Some of it may be plausible, but a scam that big would be mighty risky even for most sociopaths.

On another note, I did hear from a source that once visited him that he did have a large pile of rather rare AK parts that he somehow got in from overseas. If I remember correctly they were some sort of rare modern gasblock/site, may have been Romanian.

Good grief. If the BATF cleared him on the receivers, no one will touch him. You guys better hurry on over there and demand your damn stuff. The government probably won't do s#$t to him. You guys are on your own.

My guess now is that he's holding all the stuff since he's out of $$$$ and/or he sold off some of the parts.

Someone needs to find out exactly where this stuff is being stored as well. Call that BATF agent back up and find out what building it's in, etc. This is bulls##t. The one time the BATF could have done something good, and they didn't even bother finishing the damn job.

I spoke with BATF agent Denise Lall back around the first of March, after her visit she told me that "he works out of his house", and that since I did not send him a receiver (he was to supply it) they really could not help me. Go with the KAG, they did right by me. If you Gucci Goo a firearm or receiver go with both BATF and the KAG.

I am in contact with some people in Kansas as we speak. I want to make sure that I bring every "gun"(pun intended)I can round up when I arrive. This way it's more than by the book. I will contact Denise also.

Quoted: I spoke with BATF agent Denise Lall back around the first of March, after her visit she told me that "he works out of his house", and that since I did not send him a receiver (he was to supply it) they really could not help me. Go with the KAG, they did right by me. If you Gucci Goo a firearm or receiver go with both BATF and the KAG.

Then there is a real problem here.

Guns CANNOT be seperate from the liscensed premises. The address on the FFL is the ONLY PLACE he can work on, store, sell or receive guns.

Of course, he could enter into his bound book EVERY receiver and then log OUT every single receiver as going to the SUBCONTRACTOR (another FFL) that actually does all the work. Once the work is done he logs the firearm back in and then out and then ships it. He could also just let the kits and things pile up, haul them over to a subcontractor of ANY KIND and then pick them back up as he is able to pay for them and do it all "off the books". Totally illegal, but that would not surprize me.

My guess is that the ONLY receivers that are in his bound book are ones that he PERSONALLY owns as sales stock. I doubt real seriously that he has 200+ INCOMPLETE weapons on his logs.

Hey, I want to know something. Does ANYBODY have a SAI rifle that actually has an SAI mark on it?

And then Campy makes another good point. EVERYBODY ELSE has posted pictures of themselves, their shops and their work.

But NOT SAI.  WHY IS THAT?

Gary certainly has a digital camera. He told me dozens of times that he has 50-70 rifles lined up in the shop at any one time.

Of course, those could be AK-47.net SPECIAL EDITION rifles too.

Mike

Quoted: something isn't adding up.

It adds up alright. It adds up to FRAUD.

Figure this.

No shop.

No tools.

Self-proclaimed "Master Gunsmith".

The trailer.

Most recently returned parts kits and one of MY rifles exhibit 100% RUST on the metal. One of my rifles turns out to be "finished" with a coat of black spray paint applied OVER RUST.

The RUST indicates that whatever storage is being used certainly isn't an actual facility of any type.

Most likely parts and guns are stored stacked in boxes in a section of the one bedroom trailer.

The fact that SAI is A FICTION, the often incoherent e-mails grom Gucci-goo and much of the other extremely bizzare behavior added to the $60,000+ SAI has raked in from us suckers with Gary still living in his grandads old camping trailer all adds up to this:

DOPER, big time coke or crack user.

Mike

Yup,the $$$ are going somewhere and it doesnt sound like home improvments are on the list..

Could be that he paid the medical bills/doctors and got pills for his son.
He did sent back my swedish mauser and other than some ares where he started to remove the blueing to refinished it, its in good shape.
Still waiting for my romak 992 to be shipped.
  Roger

Quoted: Could be that he paid the medical bills/doctors and got pills for his son. He did sent back my swedish mauser and other than some ares where he started to remove the blueing to refinished it, its in good shape. Still waiting for my romak 992 to be shipped.   Roger

I don't believe ANYTHING Gary EVER said.

That he had surgery and nearly died.
That his crumb cruncher nearly died.
That his Wife nearly died.
That his Mother nearly died.

I've got an email for each of those and 300 more other excuses.

IT IS ALL A FUCKING LIE!

Mike

Quoted: Could be that he paid the medical bills/doctors and got pills for his son.

I had considered that too, but when I balance it against his actions. I am lead to only one conclusion, namely that he is a Sociopath and a con man. As such,even if such an event did happen he would exploit it to his own ends.

The sad aspect of all this is that even if all these things had happened to him, if he had be honest, truthfull, forthright, upstanding and asked for help; a lot of people would have come forward to help him. Instead, he let his true colors show. At the same time, it also exposed AK-47.net for their part in the scam.

Thomas

Quoted: Mike may just have hit the nail on the head,I hadnt considered this option before and it possibly answers alot of questions regarding why he just wont return peoples property,now we have to wonder who might actually be in possesion of these rifles/kits/receivers??? I doubt if there all in the little house out back of the big house,the one with a half moon in the door...

most guys in the gun business frequent these boards, and are familiar with other smiths.
Its a small world, if someone was holding these guns hostage on Gary for lack of payment, they would have found out about this mess and tried to make contact or gotten a list of customers from Gary to work out some sort of arrangements.

Whoever goes there should find out what is there and try to make arrangements to pack up everything and ship it out or put it in Public storage.

I hate seeing good people being ripped off

I have no vested interest in this other than to see fellow arfcommers get their shit back.

If the stuff is found , i for one would be willing to kick in some cash to help u guys get ur guns and kits shipped back. And im sure the Arfcom army would help.

Quoted: Could be that he paid the medical bills/doctors and got pills for his son.

From my conversations with GG late last year, he told me that he was not married (hence the different last names) and that his wife and child were on free state insurance AKA welfare, so her and her sons medical bills were all free.
He also told me that in Kansas, car registration cost is based on the selling price of the car. So what he does is buys his car and  then turns around and sells it to his wife for $1, so he can pay minimun registration costs. (typical of a scam artist) He can do all this because they are not married.

He was actually able to get an 07/SOT out of his trailer house?

I know ATF will issue an FFL out of your residence, but isn't this stretching it a little?

TS

I have also been coned by Gary. Promised time over time that my NFA Krink would be ready in 2 weeks after it was already months behind. Just to weeks ago after e-mailing him that I was going to be in his area on business and I was going to stop by and see what the hell was going on with my gun He e-mails me and says that it's ready to ship and he wants to make sure I was alright with April 14 as a ship date. And quess what no Krink, No return of my e-mails or phone calls. I got a little info on how to file a claim this morning but any other help will be appreciated.
JKPSR