I have heard that the wolf military classic JHP will fragment. what is the fragmentation velocity and range for this round?

any other good 7.62x39 rounds? most seem pretty pathetic in bullet performance.

i dont know for sure. i looked up that round it is supposedly the best HP round in that caliber. from the little unorthadox testing i have done the do expand well and fragmetn some. i shot a watermellon and it was signigigantly more destructive that .223. i also shot through 3 gallons of water back to back and into a ream of paper. by the time it got to the paper there was a small chunk of lead and a few jeck fragments. As foar as how far this is evffective i cant say for sure... but i am sold on wolf military classic HP.

There was an individual who posted quite a bit on another forum who ran lots of tests on various 7.62x39, his screen name was FreeRangeYoda. I believe he passed away about a year ago, but you still might be able to locate some of his posts on that other AK forum.

My memory is fuzzy, but I believe he concluded the Uly with the improved hollowpoint was good for fragmentation out for a couple hundred yards. This is very unofficial data and should not be relied upon, he never had a set up like a true terminal ballistics specialist, but he had studied the data thoroughly enough that I accepted and appreciated what he came up with.

If this round was manufactured in the USA, you can bet the data would be well published, but this is still relatively inexpensive ammo with such ferocious impact and competes quite favorably against USA made products. I almost feel un-American for stating this, as I love the USA, but some things the Ruskies came up with are pretty darn good. I am not aware of any other 7.62x39 that does as well as the improved Ulyanovsk hollow point, although the M67 bullet used in the Yugoslavian ammo and some others with it's pronounced tendency to tumble would be a better choice for self defense than the original style M43.

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=37850.0

pretty good pictures here of some fragmenting rounds. this is what I came up with looking for free rang yoda.

Yoda was working on a book at the time of his death.

He said the wolf HP was a real ripper, I believe the man.

RIP yoda He died on 12/28/07

I shot wolf JHP through at 2.5" wet phone book at 15 feet and it fragmented into about 6 pieces.


Point of it is, over penetration is not an issue, as long as you don't miss your target.

so does the wolf MC JHP give enough penetration for a SHTF stockpile?

penetration is arguably more important than fragmentation for a SHTF rifle.

Same wolf JHP ammo went through 1/4" steel plate at 50 feet like butter.  I didn't catch what came out the back, but I can imagine that it is was some molten metal...

It doesn't take HP ammo to go through a 1/4 steal plate at 50 yards, you can accomplish this with any manufacturer of 7.62x39 ammo FMJ or HP.

Quoted: It doesn't take HP ammo to go through a 1/4 steal plate at 50 yards, you can accomplish this with any manufacturer of 7.62x39 ammo FMJ or HP.

Exactly. I want my SHTF gear to be able to take down PEOPLE, if I need to be shooting through doors and shit, 12gauge buster rounds or .308 AP.

HP gets the job done under 100 yards for sure

Quoted: I shot wolf JHP through at 2.5" wet phone book at 15 feet and it fragmented into about 6 pieces. img390.imageshack.us/img390/7881/phbooksback7628zq.jpg Point of it is, over penetration is not an issue, as long as you don't miss your target.

good gawd

.

Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't take HP ammo to go through a 1/4 steal plate at 50 yards, you can accomplish this with any manufacturer of 7.62x39 ammo FMJ or HP. Exactly. I want my SHTF gear to be able to take down PEOPLE, if I need to be shooting through doors and shit, 12gauge buster rounds or .308 AP. HP gets the job done under 100 yards for sure

That is my whole point as well.  JHP is devastating in "soft" fluid filled targets, with lots of fragmentation where most of the energy is dumped into the body causing lots of internal damage.  Yet, when hititng a hardened object, it will still have punch to go through it.

7.62x39 JHP is a great multi-purpose round.

I've experienced 5-6 part fragmentation hitting 2L on end.

Quoted: There was an individual who posted quite a bit on another forum who ran lots of tests on various 7.62x39, his screen name was FreeRangeYoda. I believe he passed away about a year ago, but you still might be able to locate some of his posts on that other AK forum. My memory is fuzzy, but I believe he concluded the Uly with the improved hollowpoint was good for fragmentation out for a couple hundred yards. This is very unofficial data and should not be relied upon, he never had a set up like a true terminal ballistics specialist, but he had studied the data thoroughly enough that I accepted and appreciated what he came up with. If this round was manufactured in the USA, you can bet the data would be well published, but this is still relatively inexpensive ammo with such ferocious impact and competes quite favorably against USA made products. I almost feel un-American for stating this, as I love the USA, but some things the Ruskies came up with are pretty darn good. I am not aware of any other 7.62x39 that does as well as the improved Ulyanovsk hollow point, although the M67 bullet used in the Yugoslavian ammo and some others with it's pronounced tendency to tumble would be a better choice for self defense than the original style M43.

I've got some of Yoda's pics, among others related to the Ulyanovsk 8M3 JHP bullet used in the Wolf Military Classic.  Unfortunately, I don't remember all the details of the pics:

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/07878gi0.jpg?t=1222631383

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/WMCULYHP_3.jpg?t=1222631495

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/russianhpbullets9bc.jpg?t=1222631518

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/ulyhp0hc.jpg?t=1222631544

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/wmc1002000ru.jpg?t=1222631569

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/jello7.jpg?t=1222631588

General consensus is that this bullet will fragment at 100 meters and under, while expanding at 200 meters.  I'm not aware of any info on shots over 200 meters.  The last picture is of a gelatin test conducted by D. Fortier.  

DocGKR tested this bullet in gelatin and found it to be adequate.  Here's what DocGKR's gelatin test results were:

"The recent loading of the 124gr Wolf "Military Classic" HP shows promising performance. This ammo is made by Ulyanovsk using their 8M3 bullet, and has been shown to fragment in several tests:
7.62x39mm Sapsan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant) from 16” AKMS
BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr"

Evan Marshall has also tested this round, and he has been impressed with it's performance.  His gelatin results were:  

"test gun-Yugo SKS

penetration-22.5" thru 4 layers of denim

expansion-.58"-round tumbled and came apart just like Sapsan does-this is not your Father's Wolf 7.62X39 jhp"

Apparently, someone else on stoppingpower.net did yet another gelatin test on this round:

"10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Sapsan 7.62X39 123 gr JHP

Testing Platform:
AK 47 16” barrel

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 17.00”
Recovered Weight: 116.7 gr. – weight of recovered fragments
Expansion*: NA cal. – Fragmentation
Velocity: 2305 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point."

For what it's worth, I personally keep my SKS rifle loaded with Wolf Military Classic JHP's for defense.  I've spent a little over a year trying to track down all the information available on the Internet about this round.  

Greetings all,

any other good 7.62x39 rounds?

Other than the Wolf MC JHP their are I think two different loads that use a 123gr.
V-Max bullet which penetrate approx. 12" with massive fragmentation. The Corbon 125gr. JHP(way expensive) which has similar performance of the V-Max loads.   The Federal and Winchester soft point loads are pretty good too.  Oh yeah, you also have the Corbon DPX load, although from what i've seen and heard the petals tend to shear off.
Take care

from FreeRangeYoda:

howdy all

thanks for the LOG TEST PICS . the uly 8M3 HP is indeed FRAGTASTIC ! never got to test any against materials except by accident (missed water jugs) .

FORTIER has a g man jello block test of the ULY 8M3 in an artical in SNIPERSPARADISE back in 2000 i think . the artical is more about preparing the jello . the pic is MISLABELED as from a HPBT . of course , i and other testers new better and some time later he said so himself in a communication .


last summer , the DOC over at TACTICAL FORUMS posted gelitan test results of Uly HPs .

i and other experimenters doing waterjug testing found massive fragmentation @50M and even out to 100M . had some pics at 50 and 100M from a friend that paraleled my results exactly but they have disapeared . FORTIER got fragmenting in prepared jello and the Doc showed good expansion with his lot of SAPSAN into g man jello. these differances in test results are well within the norm for various lots of ammo .

given the above and its B.C. i would estimate some FLESH expansion out to as far as 250M or 275M but not likely beyond that . the bullets G6 B.C. of about 0.150 is better than all the 762x39 softpoints except for sierras .311" 125gr which fits in better B.C. wise with common M67 FMJ , about 0.165

Quoted: Quoted: There was an individual who posted quite a bit on another forum who ran lots of tests on various 7.62x39, his screen name was FreeRangeYoda. I believe he passed away about a year ago, but you still might be able to locate some of his posts on that other AK forum. My memory is fuzzy, but I believe he concluded the Uly with the improved hollowpoint was good for fragmentation out for a couple hundred yards. This is very unofficial data and should not be relied upon, he never had a set up like a true terminal ballistics specialist, but he had studied the data thoroughly enough that I accepted and appreciated what he came up with. If this round was manufactured in the USA, you can bet the data would be well published, but this is still relatively inexpensive ammo with such ferocious impact and competes quite favorably against USA made products. I almost feel un-American for stating this, as I love the USA, but some things the Ruskies came up with are pretty darn good. I am not aware of any other 7.62x39 that does as well as the improved Ulyanovsk hollow point, although the M67 bullet used in the Yugoslavian ammo and some others with it's pronounced tendency to tumble would be a better choice for self defense than the original style M43. I've got some of Yoda's pics, among others related to the Ulyanovsk 8M3 JHP bullet used in the Wolf Military Classic.  Unfortunately, I don't remember all the details of the pics: i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/07878gi0.jpg?t=1222631383 i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/WMCULYHP_3.jpg?t=1222631495 i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/russianhpbullets9bc.jpg?t=1222631518 i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/ulyhp0hc.jpg?t=1222631544 i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/wmc1002000ru.jpg?t=1222631569 i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/jello7.jpg?t=1222631588 General consensus is that this bullet will fragment at 100 meters and under, while expanding at 200 meters.  I'm not aware of any info on shots over 200 meters.  The last picture is of a gelatin test conducted by D. Fortier.   DocGKR tested this bullet in gelatin and found it to be adequate.  Here's what DocGKR's gelatin test results were: "The recent loading of the 124gr Wolf "Military Classic" HP shows promising performance. This ammo is made by Ulyanovsk using their 8M3 bullet, and has been shown to fragment in several tests: 7.62x39mm Sapsan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant) from 16” AKMS BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr" Evan Marshall has also tested this round, and he has been impressed with it's performance.  His gelatin results were:   "test gun-Yugo SKS penetration-22.5" thru 4 layers of denim expansion-.58"-round tumbled and came apart just like Sapsan does-this is not your Father's Wolf 7.62X39 jhp" Apparently, someone else on stoppingpower.net did yet another gelatin test on this round: "10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for: Sapsan 7.62X39 123 gr JHP Testing Platform: AK 47 16” barrel Barrier: Four Layers of Denim TEST RESULTS: Round # 1: Penetration: 17.00” Recovered Weight: 116.7 gr. – weight of recovered fragments Expansion*: NA cal. – Fragmentation Velocity: 2305 fps * Expansion measured at widest point." For what it's worth, I personally keep my SKS rifle loaded with Wolf Military Classic JHP's for defense.  I've spent a little over a year trying to track down all the information available on the Internet about this round.

The Sapsan 123gr JHP is THE best bang for the buck available ~ terminally-speaking.  
$4 for 20 rounds. . .



Thanks for posting that, Bob1984