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Posted: 11/3/2004 6:59:36 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:09:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Hell yeah! You can never have enough info.
 nice builds btw.
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:41:12 AM EDT
[#3]
I didn't want to buy or build a flat press, so I thought I would try these laser cut flats. They are sturdy at .063" thickness. They come in a package with US made rails from AR15plus.com for $38.95.
http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1545.jpg They are very easy to bend (no press needed). The seams are cut nearly the entire length of the flat but small tabs hold the bend so that it stays in place until welded. http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1544.jpg |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:45:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Simply clamp it into a vise sandwiched between 2 pieces of hardwood and bend it over by hand. Do the narrow top rails first.
http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1546.jpg The tabs hold the fold in place. You can use a rubber mallet to tighten the bend with a few taps, if needed. http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1547.jpg |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:48:20 AM EDT
[#5]
After the edges are done. Clamp the middle cuts one at a time and bend them.
http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1548.jpg It will look like this http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1550.jpg |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:49:34 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:59:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Now it is time to weld the edges so that they are permanent. That is the trade off with this receiver flat. You don't need a press tool, but you need to have access to a welder. I have a Lincoln SP135, so I simply set the controls for heat and wire feed speed based on a .63" thick steel using the charts on the side of the welder. It worked great.
http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1553.jpg I have found that it is better to only weld the top rails first, leaving the bottom edges alone until after the trunnion and tang are both mounted. This will ensure that the final dimensions of the bend fit perfectly to the them. After welding and ginding/filing it will look like this. If you are a good welder (I am not) it will make everything easier. http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1555.jpg |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 8:09:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Now, you can attach the trunnion and tang and then weld the bottom edge to make it permanent.
http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1561.jpg I don't really need to repeat the steps to the rest of the build, as I simply followed the screw build that is described in this forum and other places. Like Here I heat treated the rail ejector and the receiver holes to increase durablilty. Then I used a wire wheel on a bench grinder and a random orbital sander to buff the finish. Finally, I used a spray-on baked finish from Brownells for the final finish. This stuff really runs, so I had to take it easy and put on thin coats. You will notice the runs in the first picture (had to redo that one), but I figured it out eventually. After it dries, hang it in the oven from a small wire and bake it at 315 deg for an hour or so and it comes out a hard, enamel finish. http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1580.jpg http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1581.jpg |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 8:14:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Final assembly!
http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/DCP_1556.jpg I put the muzzle brake from the AMD-65 on the AMD-63 and welded an extended brake from TAPCO onto the 65, making it legal length. I also ordered AMD mags and slings (not shown) from Tapco to make it look more original. The AMD mags are only 20rds instead of 30, probably because of the close proximity to the front grip when inserting them. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 8:24:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Build costs:
$80 AMD-65 parts kit - centerfire systems or clearviewinvest.com $39 laser cut receiver & rails - nationalordnance.com /ar15plus.com $15 screw set - marshhawkarms/ak-47.org ($30 for 2 sets) $30 7 US parts - Century Arms (min order $75) href=Gun-Kote (good for a lot of receivers) plus 3 drill/tap sets from HD @ $4 each.. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 8:41:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quasi,
Great write up....what a way to start out as your 1st post. It looks much easier than working with a bent receiver. I have all the parts, I just haven't had the time to dedicate at least a couple hours to finish up my AMD-65. The tapping part is where I'm stuck....I bought some cheap Harbor Freight taps.....which won't thread, and stripped out eventually. Anyone know a good source for 10-32 taps, without having to buy a whole set? (I'm cheap). I wonder if my 90 AMP arc welder would be enough, anyone try? But I'm sure the heat will warp the metal eventually. Great build though.....oh yeah, welcome to the AR15.com! |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 9:06:59 AM EDT
[#12]
How did you do that? |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 9:31:45 AM EDT
[#13]
I also had a set of taps from HF, but they are too soft. At Home Depot you can buy a card that contains one tap and one drill bit. I got one for 6-32, 8-32, & 10-32. They are only about $3.50 each (I think). I bought 2 of the 10-32 taps, and ground one down a bit to bottom tap the 4 front trunion holes (2 per side). I started the threading with the pointed tap and then extended it with the bottom tap.
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Posted: 11/3/2004 9:46:44 AM EDT
[#14]
I ordered an info packet from Marshhawkarms and also read some other sources that described the process. Basically: (1) Using a MAPP torch, heat the metal until it is RED in color then quickly dip it in water or oil to cool it (I bought a bottle of MAPP at HD). Since this makes the metal hard (60C Rockwell) but too brittle, you need to temper the metal....so: (2) re-heat the metal to a BLUE color and then let it AIR COOL. If it gets red, cool it as in (1), and re-do the tempering. That is all I did. I forgot to take a picture to show the coloring of the metal, etc. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 11:18:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Great pics... You make me want to get a welder and try onne of these as well!
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Posted: 11/3/2004 3:00:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks! Your description helps. Interesting. Everytime I read these posts I want to try making my own. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 7:58:02 PM EDT
[#17]
This definitely settled the "should I get a welder or a press next" question for me! |
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Posted: 11/8/2004 2:14:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Excellent build.
What did you use for a cross member? |
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:21:01 PM EDT
[#20]
I think the mods ought to tack this thread. This is the best info I have found on building a laser cut flat.
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Posted: 11/9/2004 10:41:05 AM EDT
[#21]
The part is called an aluminum binding post. They are 8-32 x 1 1/4". I went to a hardware store looking for parts for several different solutions that people had mentioned could be used to make a cross member. I found this part and it just happened to be the right length and diameter and very close to the other 2 pins' dimensions. Also, it required no drilling or tapping, since one side screws off. It looks like the pins used to hold the old scrap-books together. The only draw-back is that it is soft. However, you can find steel ones. Here is a place to get them ScrewPosts.com http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/screwpost.gif See more about this in a later post. Other options are: 1) buy a 5/16" O.D. steel rod and drill both ends for rivets or tap both ends for screws (10-32) like here and here One Quote from a post: "Just buy a 5/16 half threaded bolt, cut a piece without threads to length (1.182" works for me), rifle drill and tap it for 10x32. Easy as 1 2 3. Or, just spend a couple of bucks and buy a center support bushing and rivet from K-Var or Global Trades." 2) buy rivets like here or here 3) buy a long 10-32 bolt, cut it to size and put a nut on the inside and outside of the receiver. 4) Weld in a pin or bolt. |
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Posted: 11/9/2004 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Hey there QuasiMRW . . . . Nice build and great write-up.
I've got a "welding" question. When you welded the receiver corners were you using MIG wire with gas or were you using flux-core wire? I'd like to try one these fold-n-weld receivers but all I've got is a flux-core wire welder and wondered if the gas shielded MIG was actually neccessary. Just curious . . . . Doug |
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Posted: 11/9/2004 12:30:57 PM EDT
[#23]
I am not a welder nor do I play one on TV h.gif). However, that is a good question, and one that I asked when I took a welding class last summer. What is the diff? For this project, I used MIG and it worked great. However, I don't see why flux-core wouldn't work. When I was testing out all the different welding techniques in class (mig, flux-core, arc, tig, etc) it seemed that the only difference between the 2 types you are comparing is that the flux-core 'spattered' more, leaving more of a cleanup chore afterwards. I seem to remember that there was more 'slag' to chip/grind off after welding because the shielding gas created by the burning core material wasn't quite as effective as MIG. But hey, I end up grinding a lot afterwards anyway has As always, everyone has an opinion. I found some here and here . Anyone else used flux-core wire on thin metals before? |
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Posted: 11/11/2004 8:50:46 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 11/12/2004 9:10:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Just to let everyone know, I have received great customer service from the folks at AR15Plus.com, where I got the laser-cut receivers. You should have NO worries ordering from them. Both my orders shipped very fast. They also answered all my questions. Looks like they also have a lot of nice kits for building 1911's, 10/22's, and AR-15's. My next non-AK47 project may have to be an AR-15.
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Posted: 11/18/2004 8:27:43 AM EDT
[#26]
I found some more info on the center support that I used, since many people have asked. I think I will make a change though. I used an aluminum binding post, but now that I know they are available, I think I will switch to a steel one. I don't know what local hardware store would have some, but you can buy them in bulk at ScrewPost.com
Aluminum http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/screwpost.gif Steel http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/steel_post-large.jpg Aluminum http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/dwg_aluminum_long.bmp Steel http://www.websterfam.net/monte/amd/dwg_steel_long.bmp Get the 1 1/4" ones and then grind a bit off the post, if needed, to make an exact fit. The aluminum post has a flatter head, so it can snug up against the receiver body closer. You could grind the steel ones flatter to make them look similiar. |
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Posted: 11/26/2004 7:21:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Did you remove any metal from your trunions ? Any fit problems due to the thicker receiver?
I was looking at the arsenal 1.6mm thick receiver. They require you to remove metal from your trunions because they left the outside or the receiver the standard size and added the extra metal thickness on the inside of the receiver. If your inside is the correct size then the added material thickness is on the outside of the receiver. Nominal inside width is 1.250 inch or 31.75mm. Do you recall what your width on the inside of ther receiver box was ? |
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Posted: 11/27/2004 10:43:28 AM EDT
[#28]
i just wanted to say im new to the forum and have found the information here very helpful i have purchased the amd 65 kid and ordered the lasercut reciever has been shown being built here and now i am in a bit of a bind... if someone could help please ... the front trunion has a thin and i mean thin slot for the reciever tabs at the top of the reciever do i need to file them down to make it all fit perfectly and the rear part of the reciever has a notch like portion cut in it when building the amd65 do i need to still install the tangs similar to a solid butstock mount ? and finally does anyone know where i can find information on where and how all the other parts go in the reciever i have figured out a few but the rest i am unfamiliar with without going to centerfire and checking one out and if they would let me take pictures of the inside of the reciever .. if need be i can take picture of what i am talking about on my reciever and trunions if anyone needs them to see what i am talking about .... neway keep up the great posts i am finding this site more helpful than any others out there
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Posted: 11/27/2004 1:04:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Tag so I can find it later.
Looks like a nice build, and an excellent writeup. |
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Posted: 11/29/2004 2:41:11 PM EDT
[#30]
On my first build attempt, I removed a small amout of metal from the trunnion. This is because I welded the entire receiver before I fit the trunnion into place and I found that the fit was too tight. The second time around, I found it much easier to weld the bottom edges AFTER the trunnion and tang were in place. I didn't do a final measurement, but if there is a few thousands of an inch of taper on the receiver, it is not going to stop an AK from functioning or the other pieces from fitting. These were designed for loose tolerances, which is why they are great for hobbiests. |
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Posted: 11/29/2004 3:04:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Yes, you will need to trim down most of the upper rail. The front will need to be trimmed down to fit the trunnions' tiny groove, the rear will have to be trimmed to fit the tang slots, and the middle will need to be adjusted some until the bolt carrier group slides freely. Also, the ejector will have to be filed down until it slides past the bolt just right. None of it is difficult, it just takes a little time. I did refer to my SAR1 a few times to see how things worked.
There are assembly diagrams as well as photos available for reference. I found some when I was searching for cross-member ideas, but I don't have them with me right now. There is a tutorial at Ace Arms, but they don't show ALL of the guts. The pookeiweb site shows more, but I can't get it to work all the time. |
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Posted: 11/29/2004 4:04:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Nice thread - tagged
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Posted: 12/1/2004 5:06:03 PM EDT
[#33]
thanks quasi i found that tutorial at ace arms after i wrote that post and saw how the trunions were supposed to look .... as for where all the other little parts go im still looking for that but i have a while to look while i get the rest of the reciever filed down the way its supposed to angain thanks for the help... i will post a few pics when i get more of it done
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Posted: 12/1/2004 5:08:21 PM EDT
[#34]
which lower rails go on which side and which direction do they face does anyone have a pic?
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Posted: 12/4/2004 4:28:24 PM EDT
[#35]
The rail with the ejector goes on the LH side. |
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Posted: 12/5/2004 9:29:44 PM EDT
[#36]
very nice build and tutorial. FYI-I was selling these flats for the owner/manufacturer when he quit production several months ago. I still have about 15 flats if anyone is interested in 1. The price for 1 flat with rails and center support tube w/2 screws is $36.25, shipping is $5
The owner suggested using TIG welding only, in small and spaced out spots. DO NOT WELD IN A CONTINOUS BEAD! The flat will warp. Also, he suggested that heat treating was not necessary due to the thickness of the flat. I'v got over a thousand rds thru my AMD with no sign of fatigue or wear on the pivot pin holes or ejector. 1 final thought on building this flat: I'v been using a wood block cut to 1.25 inch thickness to fill the interior of the flat when bending the sidewall's into position. This keeps the inside dimention at the right size when folding the flat, otherwise the flat WILL fold into a somewhat smaller inside dimention. Great pics! OJF [email protected] |
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Posted: 12/7/2004 5:12:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Thanks for the tutorial, I like I don't need a press.. I can get access to a welder.. Used to be pretty good with a oxy/acetylene.. I've not used a wire welder, may see if I can find someone that would "run" a bead for me.
Sure beats the hell out of drilling like the ACE blanks or bending with a jig. head.gif |
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Posted: 12/8/2004 12:39:39 PM EDT
[#38]
I am at the point in my build I folded both side rails up into the welded position. With both sides jigged at 90 degrees to the bottom of the receiver the internal distance for the front trunnion is 1.210 in width. The front trunnion is 1.252 wide. This is a difference of .533 mm / per side.
The front & rear trunnion will have to be reduced by this amount per side for proper fit. I am glad I did not "dimple" the magazine support because I would have been wrong in my calculations. So far I am really likekng the laser cut flat. I am debateing if I will heat treat the entire receiver or just the pin holes and ejector. |
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Posted: 12/9/2004 1:01:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Hmm...does this mean they are not making any more, or that they had too much inventoryh=85% The owner suggested using TIG welding only, in small and spaced out spots. DO NOT WELD IN A CONTINOUS BEAD! The flat will warp. Interesting. I did not see those suggestions on the web site. I sure tried to run a continous bead and I did not experience any signs of warping. I have done 3 now (yes, I am working on another). I wonder if someone used too hot a welder and warped one?
I have also seen other places that suggest that heat treating may be overkill.
Great idea. I was thinking of making a similiar item with hardwood or metal. So far, saving the bottom edge welding till last has allowed me to force a perfect fit. |
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Posted: 12/9/2004 1:09:50 PM EDT
[#40]
akhunter,
Here is another tutorial that shows how the internals seat. It is specifically around the hammer and trigger group. Good picts. Hammer and Trigger Group Install and Removal |
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Posted: 12/9/2004 6:27:54 PM EDT
[#41]
The manufacturer sold most of these flats on EBAY, until they lowered the boom on selling AK parts. I was trying to sell some on the gun boards so he would keep up the production, but he finally shut down. Too bad, because they are a great idea, and save money in the long run due to no heat treating requirement. The purist's don't like them because they don't look exactly like the original stamped receiver's, but they are strong as hell, and will probably outlast the original stamped receiver. Personnally, I prefer function over form.
I'm surprised you didn't warp your flats due to continous bead welding. You probably practised a lot before welding them. I'v talked to a lot of builders who warped their flats. If anyone needs some flats w/lower rails and c.s.t., I'v still got a few left to sell. OJF |
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Posted: 12/18/2004 5:20:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Yes i have used flux core on thin metal [car bodies] it runs hotter BE Careful!!!!!!!! run some beads on test metal first. if it runs too hot plug it in to an extension cord. the reduction of input voltage will drop the welding voltage. |
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Posted: 12/20/2004 9:55:20 AM EDT
[#43]
Very nice build. Guess I now have reason to get aff my a$$ and get the tig leads for my lincoln dc stick. Looks like a build I going to try here soon.
later all.......... |
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Posted: 1/24/2005 1:33:58 PM EDT
[#44]
OK, I got my Pistol done. Instead of makin' this thing longer, I am gonna put all the picts and stuff on a new topic.
Pistol Build Page |
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(I'm a software engineer geek 
). However, that is a good question, and one that I asked when I took a welding class last summer. What is the diff? For this project, I used MIG and it worked great. However, I don't see why flux-core wouldn't work. When I was testing out all the different welding techniques in class (mig, flux-core, arc, tig, etc) it seemed that the only difference between the 2 types you are comparing is that the flux-core 'spattered' more, leaving more of a cleanup chore afterwards. I seem to remember that there was more 'slag' to chip/grind off after welding because the shielding gas created by the burning core material wasn't quite as effective as MIG. But hey, I end up grinding a lot afterwards anyway 
. I know flux-core has to be better on this thin metal than trying to stick weld it. The main thing is to be able to set the feed speed and heat settings to not over-heat and punch holes in the metal, since flux-core tends to penetrate more than MIG.