User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:31:58 AM EDT
[#1]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=350293
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=351198 http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=359883 I had to do some re-staking... other than that, all was good. Customer service does suck hair balls though. hock.gif |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:45:13 AM EDT
[#2]
They have no customer service. That, combined with a mediocre product means that you might get them to answer phone/email, but they probably won't come to any resolution... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:40:27 PM EDT
[#3]
I think you could do ok if you are an experienced AR builder who can fix small issues on your own. I've never heard that their barrels or major parts are defective in any way, just some assembly issues are what I hear about usually.
Most of the reviews I've read talk about very satisfactory performance in terms of accuracy. Seems the big issues are canted FSB's and bad staking on bolt carrier keys. Who is selling the 6.8? If it's a friend and it's worked well for him, then go for it. I wouldn't expect any AR seller to do much support on a second hand gun, or a home built gun. period. All I would expect is for them to replace any missing or defective parts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:21:47 AM EDT
[#4]
I'll second the carrier key staking. I have built 3 parts kits up from them and all three had carrier key issues. Other than some basic staking, they were good to go.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 12:34:52 AM EDT
[#5]
I've built a couple of their kits, and have to disagree with a couple points I see routinely leveled against them.
1- Customer service. I've had two experiences with this. The first was when building my Dad's 16" varminter. We ordered a .93" gas block, and they sent a .750" block. I called them on christmas day of 2006, and they answered the phone. I told the guy what had happened. He was very apologetic, and told me to simply pack it up and send it back, and they'd take care of me. The next day, I dropped it in the mail. The day after that, two days after I had talked to them, the nex, proper-sized gas block was in my mailbox when I got home from work. The second was when building my dissipator kit. The lower parts kit was in a heat-sealed plastic bag, but was still missing the trigger, hammer, and the corresponging springs. I called when I did my inventory of the parts. The lady who answered the phone said that they purchase their kits from another company, and that they try to check each one for its contents, but sometimes they have one slip thru. She told me they'd send me the missing parts. Luckily I had spare parts from putting a drop-in trigger in a buddy's rifle, so I used them. The assembly went off without a hitch, and the missing parts were in my mailbox in three days. 2- Their Bolt Carriers. I see a lot of guys saying that they sell carriers lacking the shrouding for the rear of the firing pin. They sell both kinds. Of the kits of theirs I've assembled, I've kept track of the last four. 1- The Dissipator kit mentioned above. Shrouded Carrier. 2- My Dad's varminter. Unshrouded carrier- on my request, I sent it back, and they mailed a Shrouded carrier free of charge. 3- A 16" carbine kit for a buddy of mine. Unshrouded carrier. 4- The same buddy bought the 24" varmint kit from them. Shrouded carrier. I think they are simply mix-and-match when it comes to their carriers. The staking on all of them was just as good as the staking on my LMT BCG. ETA- And for what it's worth, they all shoot good and are reliable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 5:26:06 AM EDT
[#6]
I have no experience with their customer service.
I purchased an a2 hbar kit from them awhile back. Stake job was sub-par. Upper reciever looks like a two-tone paint job if you look really close - 1/2 looks a little redder than the other. Almost as if it was done 1/2 and 1/2 on seperate days or something. Accurracy wise I've helped it out with a 2stage rra and free float. Off the bench she'll make holes slightly less than an 1" of diameter. In a recent match for the offhand 200 yard line (no hardback coat, just a glove) She could keep them in the 8 or above rings till I crossfired on the 3rd to last shot. Hopefully I can do alot alot better next go round. I think the rifle is just fine for accuracy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 7:49:12 AM EDT
[#7]
both?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 3:59:02 PM EDT
[#8]
I just bought a 20" heavy barrel upper with freefloat tube and BCG, Finish was very good, matches my LAR lower almost perfectly. Very tight fit. No staking problems. Showed up at my door in less than 5 days. Haven't shot yet, but should have no problems
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 5:18:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Check over on the surplus rifle forums. A large proportion of the AR owners there went with BT and on average, are happy. Issues are mostly finishing and cosmetic, like improper staking, uneven finish, burrs still in the barrel from drilling the gas port, etc.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 5:51:04 PM EDT
[#10]
I would love to see photos of more Blackthorne builds. I would seriously try one if I could get some clear information on them and see some pics.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2008 8:44:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Considering the fact that the problems experienced with them is things not to spec and bad customer service I would say purchasing one that has already performed well at the range should account for an increase in their value. I have one and have dealt with them quite a bit. I gave up suggesting them after a couple different customer service issues which followed out-of-spec parts. But in the end and after more work than I had anticipated (I did most builds for free) they all worked and continue to do so years later.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:31:13 AM EDT
[#12]
I would show you my Blackthorne AR but I can't figure out how to insert the pic.... I'm retarded.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2008 8:14:38 AM EDT
[#13]
     target show the first 3 while adjusting my scope , 2nd 3 shots without scope adjustment . my rifle kit was $369 when i bought it last year and i've been real happy with it . it now is floated and has a gas block with a rail and a bill springfield trigger job . the bolt carrier was marked ''D'' DPMS? the handgaurds aren't the best but everything functioned 100% and fit was very good to my doublestar lower . its got a few groundhogs this year and they didn't notice it was a blackthorne .i recieved my kit within a week of ordering. a buddy purchased a varmint kit and is real happy with his also. he did have to wait a few weeks on his ,they said they were waiting on barrels .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:23:20 PM EDT
[#14]
I noticed the mark on the upper is the same as on my DPMS.
A agree the handguards are fugly, but I consider handguards to be almost an afterthough.... $20 part that is easily replaced, so they are of no concern to me... My theory is that these seem to be good guns as long as you are experienced enough to tinker with them a bit and fix the stuff that bugs you. Most of the posts I've read seem to bear this out. Question though, did they tell your buddy that they were out of stock on barrels when he ordered, or only after he had to wait for a while? That is a huge peeve of mine if a seller doens't bother to tell me something is backordered... I might have to do one soon. I might do a 20" A3. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:43:47 PM EDT
[#15]
GArbage.
Tired of posting on the one I tried to straighten up for a friend. Un-fucking believable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:46:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Would you be willing to post pictures/details? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2008 6:23:20 PM EDT
[#17]
I have posted my story a few times here, the Readers Digest version is this. Bought 3 kits at once, all were missing parts, poor over all quality, poor performance. And I would get banned if i told you what i think of there costomer service.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:33:19 AM EDT
[#18]
my buddy ordered online so he had know idea they were out of barrels , it took him a few tries to contact them. seems more like a part time business . wierd when they were out of barrels , everyone else seemed to be out of barrels.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:47:56 AM EDT
[#19]
bob hesse has a bad enough reputation that he has to change his company name every few years to keep tricking people.
that alone speaks volume of himself and his products. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 7:19:31 AM EDT
[#21]
blackthorne has the complete 24'' kit for $449 +shipping ,buttstock and lower parts included
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 8:47:59 AM EDT
[#22]
You're right. If you add the $20 for shipping, that means your'e paying only $23 more for a buttstock and lower parts kit. Interesting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:23:38 PM EDT
[#23]
The three day warranty keeps me away. They must not have much confidence in their product.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:11:19 PM EDT
[#24]
I ordered a 14.5 inch A2 M4 kit on Sunday, Got my tracking info today, I will post pics and opinion when I get it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 7:09:16 PM EDT
[#25]
I look forward to hearing your report. I am seriously pondering a 20" gov't type rifle, or a KISS carbine from these guys...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2008 8:02:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Ask and ye shall receive. A friend's 24" varmint kit (it's since had a Swift scope added):    16" Carbine, same owner (sorry, no other pictures of it):  A "Recce-style" carbine I built up using one of their "Dissipator" kits and one of their free-float tubes:     My Dad's upper; In all fairness, the barrel, BCG/CH, gas tube, and gas block are the Blackthorne parts. The upper and free-float tube are of unknown origin. It was all refinished using Brownell's Alumahyde II. It's since been added to an RRA lower with a 6-position stock.    
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:09:27 AM EDT
[#27]
nice looking rifles
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:23:17 AM EDT
[#28]
I was looking at the 20" HB A3 rifle kit from Blackthorne just like the one Mrbgt got. Not so much for a rifle build but because I wanted a A2 stock for one one of other rifles, an flat top receiver to swap for a A2 onto a carbine and a 20" bbl upper for one of my Cav Arms lowers. At $369 for the kit, it is cheaper than buying an upper and stock separately and I still end up with a spare LPK and other parts.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:46:10 AM EDT
[#29]
We think alike sir... I think if I can get a decent one that shoots, it would be a great KISS rifle with potential for upgrading later. I would probably run the upper on my existing lower for now until I could get a nice rifle lower set up for it. Thanks for the pics guys! Sounds like you've had pretty good luck,huh? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:33:36 PM EDT
[#30]
TravisM1,
Do you know the MOA on your friends 24" Blackthorne? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2008 2:26:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Also be very careful about payment, if you watch their website when they ask for a credit card number that page is not going out on a secure link, so anyone with a sniffer can intercept that and will have your credit card information. I think I would rather send them a money order, if they are that loose with online credit card info, I would have to wonder about there security for palced orders.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2008 10:32:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Not right off the top of my head, sorry. I'll give him a ring tomorrow and ask. I know that had some trouble initially with a Tasco 10-40x scope that wouldn't adjust far enough to the left*, but other than that, it's been great. The scope pictured is a Simmons, 4-12x, IIRC. I know that the free-floated dissipator I built from one of their kits will do 1" at 100 yards, easily. This is a 4-shot group at 50 yards from my Dad's upper, the last one pictured above.  I know, only 50 yards. I was aiming at the red shield in the Marlboro crest. *Before anyone starts saying that this is because the upper is out of spec, I should point out that the same scope wouldn't zero on another rifle, and he's had two other scopes on it that both worked fine.
Thanks!
Glad I had them to post. I don't know if it's luck, or that the stuff isn't really that bad, or that a lot of people just don't know what they're talking about, or lack the experience with the brand that they let on. There's one that I don't have pics of, of another dissipator I swapped the handguards out on. It belongs to a coworker. I removed the rifle-length handguards and put on a YHM railed rifle-length tube. The threads on the outside of the YHM barrel nut were cut crooked, so the tube sat on the rifle angled off the the right. He sent it back and YHM made it right. But, that was a problem with the YHM parts, not the parts from Blackthorne. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2008 7:22:54 AM EDT
[#33]
I've heard that BT has been improving a lot lately. I hope so, because their prices are great.
I guess I really don't care if their parts are exactly to spec as long as they WORK! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:09:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Ok, this is what I have so far. This was my first experience with this company.
I ordered online last Sunday, and the kit was on my front porch Friday afternoon. From what I can tell the website shoping cart is a secure connection. This was very fast shipping, in my opinion. The kit was complete, no parts missing, I assembled it on a Lauer lower, The upper is a very tight fit, I ran into two issues while assembling, the trigger guard roll pin, and the bolt catch roll pin seemed too big, did not want to go in, I replaced them with spare parts I had. I haven't shot it yet, but I am happy with the overall fit and finish, and based on this experience I would purchase from this company again. I will try to get pics posted in the next couple of days. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:43:05 PM EDT
[#35]
I have had mine for about 8 months now. Works great. Only thing wrong like stated was gas key came loose. I tightened it up nothing wrong since.
Actually have had some pretty good groups with some reloads.. Great for a plinker rifle |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2008 8:20:31 AM EDT
[#36]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2008 6:19:18 PM EDT
[#37]
I just wanted to retract my previous statement... I just got my 24" upper from Blackthorne. When I first ordered, I wrote in the "requests/comments" box; and I quote...
"Thanks for the upper guys. But if I could please make one humble request, please put extra bubble wrap to protect the upper during transport." I got a box... with an upper in it... no protection whatsoever. none. not even a used tissue. With that kind of service, I can only pray it shoots well. Blackthorne... you can kiss my  !
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2008 6:28:24 PM EDT
[#38]
I hope your rifle shoots well too, but in all fairness I have to say that I've posted stuff like this in the "comments" section of an online form with MANY internet sellers, and it seems like they never pay any attention to them. I'm not trying to make excuses for Blackthorne, but it seems like this kinda stuff never seems to reach the shipping dock no matter where I buy from... However... pretty sad that they dont wrap their products better as a standard practice... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:47:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Here's mine. My only real complaint was the cheap handguards(had a gap between the halves, seems common for Blackthorne). The ones that came with the kit were changed out for the M4 style you see here. $20 on the EE trims the $69 savings to $49. The only other thing I did was the obvious addition of sling and magazine(most of the kits I see advertised come with neither), and replaced the A2 flashhider with the slipover from Black Rifle Works. No stoppages yet(but only 2-300 rounds thru it so far) and good groups on 20 oz bottles at 70 yards. Worst groups at 70 are no worse than the barrels the military used on the M16A2 I used in the Guard at the same distance-now to hit my father in law's beanfield and see if I can hit a bucket at 500 with sights--I have a carry handle scope mount but don't know if I'm going to bother with a scope or not. One thing that's interesting is the Bushmaster I had uses a plastic triggerguard and blackthorne's are metal-almost makes up for the handguards.
Overall the rifle works as well as I need it to, but for favorite status it takes a backseat to my 1942 Garand and the history behind it. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:43:14 AM EDT
[#40]
www.vulcanarmament.com website?
 V15 Rifle AccessoriesThe Vulcan V15 series rifles are based on the proven AR-15 type and feature 100% parts interchangeability with the original in .223 caliber. We have taken this classic design into the new millennia. Vulcan Group Inc. has reached a distribution agreement with Blackthorne Products LLC. Blackthorne Products LLC will be a distributor of Vulcan Group Inc accessories. Please use the link below to visit www.BlackthorneProducts.com to view the entire product line. There are pictures, technical specifications, part numbers, and prices. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:26:41 AM EDT
[#41]
for some reason my buttstock had bubble wrap and my upper had a thin paper wrapped around it. should be the other way , but i didn't notice any damage by shipping. these are some off the reasons blackthorne is cheaper ,but so far my rifle functions perfect .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:29:54 AM EDT
[#42]
doubletap
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:10:01 AM EDT
[#43]
That's a nice looking rifle. I am also a fan of the XM177 look. I seriously need to build one one of these days. Seems odd that they scrimp on handguards since they have to be about the cheapest component on an AR. Heck I have several sets laying around from old projects... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2008 3:25:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Well I recieved my 16" varmint upper.
Here is a list of problems so far as I have not shot it yet Gas block was canted a tiny bit to the left and the screws were kind of not real tight I corrected with loctite Barrel was filthy and still had metal shavings from whatever ejection port door ball thing where it latches was kinda of funky but its usable Finish is real shiney but after blasting with brake cleaner and lube it evened out I mounted a center point 3-9X and hope to hit the range tommorow I will post an AAR free float tube was loose |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:11:53 PM EDT
[#45]
I got my Blackthorne 24" varmint in thursday and took it out today. The only problem I had was that the gas block was leaking. I loosened it and slid it down the gas tube about 1/16 of an inch. Perhaps that fixed the problem. My other 16" Blackthorne works fine, but I had to restake the bolt carrier screws. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:24:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Just going through my tagged threads, and I was wondering if you had a range report on this one yet??? 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:11:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Sorry it has taken so long, Here are a few pics, Still no range report.
Build cost: Lauer lower $87.50 (group buy with friends, on sale, price includes shipping cost, no charge FFL) 14.5" Blackthorn M4 kit $399 Phantom flash hider $25 Shipping $20 Grand total $531.50 This was a low buck build for a truck rifle. http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/M41.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/M42.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-003F-1-1.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-005F.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-004F.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-006F.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-008F.jpghttp://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-007F.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/Dano5001/MVC-007F.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:42:58 PM EDT
[#48]
I've seen many and fixed many of those kits. Complete junk unless your are shooting soda cans and don't mind stoppages.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2008 4:33:45 PM EDT
[#49]
I'VE ORDERED A 20" STANDARD BARREL, FREE FLOAT TUBE WITH RAILS, RIFLE GAS TUBE WITH PIN, GAS BLOCK, AND A FLAT TOP UPPER TODAY THAT I WILL ASSEMBLE INTO A COMPLETE UPPER LESS BOLT, AND BOLT CARRIER THIS WEEKEND. I'LL POST WHAT I THINK OF THE QUALITY AND CUSTOMER SERVICE AFTER I ASSEMBLE, AND SHOOT IT.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2008 3:14:07 PM EDT
[#50]
It's been over 3 days, and no package. I e-mailed them and found it was just shipped today, which is the norm for Blackthorn to ship up to 3 buisness after order is recieved. Blackthorn says they will ship to a diffrent address if you have ordered from them before, and I have ordered before. 2 weeks before this post I ordered a couple free float tubes, but just found out they sent it to the other address. When I placed this last ordered I gave special shipping instructions where to send package. So I wont build this weekend. I will next week and have a range report of ballistics, quality of parts if entire order was shipped, and function. Blackthorn allready has 1 foul for service. Lets see if they get 3 strikes for producthinking.gif.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
