Greetings to you all!

After 25 years of shooting and owning a variety of firearms, I'm in the process of adding the first Black Rifle to my collection. After a lot of website surfing, discussion with a couple of AR-owning friends and a bit of lurking here, I've pretty much settled on a Rock River Arms Elite CAR UTE2.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/purelut.gif


My question to this forum revolves around the electronic sighting system I plan to use. I've pretty much narrowed-down the choice to either Aimpoint's M2 or EOTech's 511 or 512. From the homework I've done both appear to be top notch kit. But I'd really like to hear from those of you who own or have more than passing experience with both. Why do you prefer one over the other? Or do you even have a preference? In your opinion, what are the strong points and weaknesses of each sight? How about comparative battery life-does one sight show a distinct advantage over the other in real world conditions? With respect to the EOTechs, is the tradeoff in longer battery life of the 512 worth the added weight and size compared to the 511? And as far as the Aimpoint is concerned, can you suggest a low mount that allows a solid cheek weld but at the same time doesn't create a conflict between red dot and front iron sight?

Your responses are appreciated in advance.

Sunday i bought a new Eotech 512 at the gunshow and couldnt pass it it up, $300. Besides the price i like  the circle/ dot reticle and bigger window as compared to the Aimpoint  "tube view ". I went with the AA batteries because i can get them  from work and i like the idea of getting them anywhere if i need to in case i goof while going to the range or if camping up in northern michigan. The only downside is the shorter battery life as compared to the Aimpoint but the up side is Lithium batteries have a long shelf life and i can stash some at home for emergencies. My only suggestion to you would be to go with a flat top upper, you will be able to add a variety of  BUIS and remove them for a scope set up,i think you will have more flexabilty. My 512 was a cramped fit with the Matech buis and i had to file down some of the M4 handguard at the top rear to allow the Eotech to fit were i wanted and the  mounting screw to mount in the T8 position , this gave me more finger room to manipulate the buttons. I only had to file about an 1/8 down and other handguards may not do this. Overall i like the look and feel of the Eotech and for a carbine its perfect, for anything farther i have an M14 . Have fun deciding it took me about a year
.

+1 for the 512

I have shot rifles with both the Aimpoint and EOTech and I currently have an Aimpoint on my personal rifle.  After a day at the range using both optics we came to the conclusion that you can not go wrong with either optic.  Both are top notch, well built, reliable optics.  My personal preference is the Aimpoint, the other officer's preference is the EOTech.  I like the power switch on the Aimpoint over the EOTech and I also prefer the tube style over the open EOTech.  Other than that, you really can not go wrong with either one.  If you have any eye problems (astigmatism) both sights can have problems with bloom and distortion.  I have heard a few more negative comments about the EOTechs from people with this problem.

Just figure out style you like and what price you want to pay and go with it.

Sarge

tag

I ended up with Aimpoint's the Eo's ring just wasn't for me, I also like the battery life and controls better on the Aimpoint. My friend has my old Eotech on his rifle and he loves it, so I say try both and then decide.

My Aimpoint's.

I am fairly sure you probably checked this out, but if not you might want to read and wait a while to see the final resolution.

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=272576

Do you have astigmatism?

People who has astigmatism say they have a harder time using the EOTech if they are not wearing their glasses.  I'd hate for you to buy one then find out that you have to wear your glasses to use it. Even if your vision is OK without them.

Quoted: Do you have astigmatism? People who has astigmatism say they have a harder time using the EOTech if they are not wearing their glasses.  I'd hate for you to buy one then find out that you have to wear your glasses to use it. Even if your vision is OK without them.

+1 I really like the EOTECH, but it is harder and harder to use because of my astigmatism.  Thinking about trying the Aimpoint or even the new tri-power.

My hearty thanks to all who have taken the time to reply so far. Your input is greatly appreciated. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Bill_Lester/thumbsup.gif


1MRBEAN: I'm not too interested in flattops for several reasons. First off, I like iron sights that are integral to the receiver. You just can't get sturdier than that. Secondly, if  the electronics are damaged beyond use, or the batteries die w/o me realizing it, fixed irons are right there ready to go. I don't even need to flip 'em into firing position. I'm also considering the option for dissimilar zeroes-say 50 yards for the electronics, 200 for the irons. With the fixed irons, I have both options instantly available. Finally, I just plain prefer the looks of the AR with conventional sights.

sgtmike, Trey-W & akajimmy: Uh oh, now you've got me a bit worried. I do have a terrible astigmatism. My corrected vision is 20/25-30 bilaterally. I need to wear glasses at all times to see much past the tip of my nose. he

VARANGIAN: Thanks for posting the pics of your weapons.  Those mounts don't look too high at all. Which ones are they? Can you maintain a solid cheek weld when using your Aimpoints?

RatSass: Yes, I'm closely observing the cant thread you noted.

petagunner: I'd love to try both the Aimpoint and EOTech, but the chances of that happening are slim to none. There just aren't that many shooters in my area that think beyond a deer rifle or an SKS. The mounting situation doesn't bother me as much in terms of cost as it does in reticle/dot height. I'm an unrepentant wingshooter and obtaining a solid, consistent cheek weld on the stock is second nature for me. If the mount puts the electronic aiming point much higher than the iron sights, it will be very difficult to change from my long-practiced ways. As for the tunnel vision problem, I think with a mount that places the Aimpoint farther up the receiver/over the rear of the barrel, I should be okay. I've used a convential "Scout" scope a few times and didn't have any problems getting off quick, aimed shots.

I had an Eotech 551.  Sold it for an ACOG TA01.  Sold it for a new upper.  Bought an Aimpoint and just traded it for an Eotech 512.  

Quoted: Bought an Aimpoint and just traded it for an Eotech 512.

What did the EOTech offer that you didn't have with the Aimpoint?

Much quicker reticle.  People complain about the large 65MOA ring but it's just what you need for FAST target acquisition.  You can use the 1MOA dot in the middle for accuracy.

Remember, 65MOS=65 inches at 100yards.  That translates to 5'5".  There are a lot of bad guys that happen to be 5'5"and it's always nice to know when you are 100yards away for ranging purposes!!  

I have never had to run around the backyard or in a parking lot or the forest chasing people or waiting for someone to run past me, but from plinking at the range with both, I can assure you I feel much faster and sure with the large aperture of the Eotech than the Aimpoint.  If I have to bring that rifle up fast, I don't have to worry about looking for the optic and then the reticle.  I know that by having an Eotech on my rifle there will be a nice reticle over the target as soon as I bring my rifle up- I won't have to think one second about looking for it.  

ETA:  I will also STRONGLY suggest against that version of upper.  It's a solution in search of a problem and I don't like RRA's thinking on it.  They did it just to be different and cool.  Same thing as with their "tactical" carry handle.  

You will have so many other options without that metal in the way...

You might find that you would rather have a flipup sight for a backup than that and you will NEVER be able to do anything about it short of a full replacement of the upper receiver.  Not hard to do, I've swapped and swapped and swapped, but I don't care about factory warranties either.  

Get the standard flattop instead and buy an LMT rear BUIS if you want that style rear sight.  You can always sell it used at only a 10% loss and buy a quality flipup for even less!

I just ordered a LaRue riser for my 512 and I'm sure I'm going to love it.  I don't know how various risers would work or if they would work well with that erection on the back of that receiver...

Just think- you could always add a carry handle for the original(ish) military look (which I love) and that's something you could NEVER do with that upper.  

Quoted: Quoted: Bought an Aimpoint and just traded it for an Eotech 512.   What did the EOTech offer that you didn't have with the Aimpoint?

Oh, I forgot to answer your question- a danger of exposure to LASER RADIATION!!

I will have to agree with JosephR on the upper selection.  You will be limited too much.  With all of the option out there, you are eliminating them before you have a chance to try them.

Get a fixed BUIS if you like and locktite it down.  You can always change your mind then.

I have a new EOTECH 552 and it is awsome but I do think they are personal preference.  My favorite attribute is the 1 MOA dot. Next is the openness of the sight.

thanks for getting my back- that's what I would have wanted to stress more- you are eliminating so many rail/optic/mount/BUIS/etc. options by going this route.  

You have the BRD or will have it soon.  You will want to try new things and some of the coolest new things just won't work with your rear sight.  YHM is coming out with a flip up H&K diopter style sight.  Another guy is making a standalone rear diopter style setup.  You wouldn't be able to even try out either of those...

as defenderhome said

"With all of the option out there, you are eliminating them before you have a chance to try them."

that is something you never want to do around here with this hobby...

ETA:  You should check out www.cmmginc.com for rifles.  You will get more authentic military style there...

CMMG 16” Mid-Length Carbine  $1025.95

New production CMMG 16” Mid-Length Carbine. Features include mil-spec fire control group and take-down pins, gov't profile barrel, chrome lined 5.56mm chamber and bore, 1/7 twist, parkerizing under “F” marked forged front sight base, forged upper and lower receiver, M4 feed ramps, mid-length handguards and 6 position ribbed reinforced stock. All barrels are magnetic particle tested and all uppers have been factory head spaced and test fired. Included with weapon are hard case, cleaning kit, sling, 2-30rd mags, manual and lifetime warranty.

Your RRA would be $1000 even with the chrome lining.  So $25 cheaper but you'd have a 1:9 barrel instead of a 1:7 for heavier loads if you ever chose to shoot them.  You'd also not have the correctly made feedramps (not that you have to have them either.)  You would also get the correct MPI testing on the CMMG rifle.  The CMMG rifle is a true flattop with the carrying handle.  It can be immediately cut into an LMT style when your Eotech arrives.  



I think the picture stinks but it's a much nicer rifle.  You don't want a Hogue grip from RRA.  You can get a quality grip MIAD grip set off of the EE.  It does appear your RRA rifle comes with the 2-stage NM trigger assembly.  That is something you'd have to pay up to $100 to get elsewhere.  But, you can always buy it, add it and then resell the old parts.  Trust me, there are buyers.  All of the other stuff RRA offers is junk- Badger tac latch, winter trigger guard, etc.  Much better versions of that stuff available through other companies.  

So, for clarity's sake - does the Aimpoint offer an advantage over the EoTech for those with astigmatisms?  

I used the Aimpoint on my M4 with the infantry in Iraq and I loved it – it worked beautifully with my NVGs, it was fast, and it took a hell of a beating.  My complaints were that the knob-switch turned the device on by accident frequently, wearing down the battery (which didn’t last as long back then); the glare from the front was significant and the honeycomb filter was prone to desert dust and bending cross-sections (so we all took them off); and the cover flaps wore/broke-off frequently (I eventually stopped replacing them and would just wipe off the lenses before each patrol or shift – no problems with scratching).

I recently picked up the EoTech 552 for my personal weapon, just to try it out and decide whether or not to use it on my service weapon, and it seems great.  For me, outer ring is a bit blurry, but the dot is clear.  I just started wearing corrective lenses and found out that I have astigmatism.  I never had a problem at all with the Aimpoint, though.  So, either a) an Aimpoint isn't prone to the same issues as an EoTech for those with astigmatism; b) I didn't have such a problem back then; or c) I was so used to the problem I didn't realize I had it.  

So, what’s the best answer for one with astigmatism?

VARANGIAN: Thanks for posting the pics of your weapons. Those mounts don't look too high at all. Which ones are they? Can you maintain a solid cheek weld when using your Aimpoints?

They are Arms mounts and I get a good cheek weld with that set up. If the optics fail you just tilt youre head down a little bit and the irons line right up.

I've killed 9 hogs and 4 Hajis with an Aimpoint that I've been using for the last 5 years.  I bought an Eotech on my last leave and found myself loosing the little center dot on lighter colored targets and had a harder time tracking it on moving targets (firing from a truck on running coyotes).  However, I've only used the Eotech on that one outing, so I am still testing and evaluating.  My confidence with an Aimpoint is 100%.  Slow fire Sub-MOA groups out to 400.  I can repeatedly hit a head or 5"X5" plate at 400 yards from the prone with a holdover.  4MOA dot is not a problem.  Even if the dot size "grows" at distance, it still hits center of the red.  Regardless which optic you choose, KNOW YOUR TRAJECTORY and holdovers...and you will hit.  

Going with the "always ready" rear sight assembly is a good idea.  If you wanted a little more versitility, rather than going with the UTE II with fixed rear sight assembly, you could attach a LMT BUIS rear sight aperture to a flat-top like I do.  You could take it on or off in the future if you wanted.  It would give you the same set-up as the UTE II your looking at, but detachable.  Either way, nestle an Aimpoint with cantilever mount and your GTG.  (ARMS or Larue cantilever mount)

Quoted: petagunner: I'd love to try both the Aimpoint and EOTech, but the chances of that happening are slim to none. There just aren't that many shooters in my area that think beyond a deer rifle or an SKS.

What part of PA are you in?

I know lots of PA shooters with one or the other.  I shoot at a place just south of Harrisburg, and I train at a place just outside of Pittsburg.  Any of these near you?

Yes, yes and yes...  I was holding off but since the flood gates have opened, I'll add my $.02.  The RRA UTE upper is an absolutely useless item.  I'm sorry for those who have it and enjoy it but it serves no pupose that cannot be accomplished by other, read better, means.
You want a the ability to mount optics to the top of the receiver?  Get a flat-top.
You wand a fixed rear sight?  Get an A2.
You want both?  Get a lat-top with a fixed BUIS or a flip-up sight.
For the life of me I cannot understand all of the "if it can possibly fail, I won't have it on my rig" bullshit.  What do you do with your rifle that LEO"s or Military units don't do?  Get a QUALITY flip-up BUIS and Loc-Tite that bastard on and you'll be fine...  Hell, use red Loc-tite and I defy you to remove it!  Put a LMT fixed BUIS on with red Loc-Tite properly installed, and I'll give you $1,000 if it becomes removed during field use.
Sorry for the rant but it just drives me bonkers that someone would actually pay more money for an inferior product just so that it is "bullet-proof" for their off-hand shooting range sessions.  But hey, the choice is up to the individual and you should get what you want...  What the hell do we know, we are just speculators like anyone else

I think that if anyone can or would say an Eotech is worse than an Aimpoint if you have an astigmatism, it's only because the reticle is busier and it's easier for it to get fuzzy.  Hell, it's made to look fuzzy when looking right at it.

I'm still certain that a lot of people who stand by their aimpoints and knock Eotech reticles may have only seen a buddies Eotech reticle at the range and didn't use it enough to get used to it.  You are supposed to focus on your target and not the reticle.  It smooths out when on target...

I HAVE BOTH   EOTECH 551 and Aimpoint ML2

Both are good and serve you well!

If I had to pick only one it would be AIMPOINT I think its just better made .
Stronger, safer in the water/rain!
And has been PROVEN helps also!

Guys,

Thanks again for all the input.  Several have commented on my choice of carbines. Flattops just aren't in the picture. I've handled quite a few mounting optical scopes, BUIS or both. They don't appeal to me. With all due respect, let's just "stay focused on the (Aimpoint and EOTech) sights." Thanks in advance.

VARANGIAN: Thanks for your second response.

Gargoyle: A http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Bill_Lester/thumbsup.gif for your record with the Aimpoint and thanks for the detailed description of your shooting experiences.

Forest Team Member: I'm in SW PA. Latrobe specifically. Where do you train in "da 'burgh?" It wouldn't by Greater Pittsburgh Gun Club, would it? I've busted many a cap there.


One question to all: How is battery life with these sights? Are the specs provided by the manufacturers fantasy or close to fact?

Forest Team Member: I'm in SW PA. Latrobe specifically. Where do you train in "da 'burgh?" It wouldn't by Greater Pittsburgh Gun Club, would it? I've busted many a cap there.

That's NOT his name!!!

The last thing (hopefully) I'll say here is the more important consideration in my opinion is the upper receiver and not the optic.  I have my favorite but they are both proven optics so that is that...

Quoted: ....Forest Team Member: I'm in SW PA. Latrobe specifically. Where do you train in "da 'burgh?" It wouldn't by Greater Pittsburgh Gun Club, would it? I've busted many a cap there.

Yes it would.  I train under Pete, Giles, Tony and the rest of the FIRE Institute crew once or twice a year.  I HIGH recommend it, and you'll get a chance to see these optics.  Pete & Tony are Aimpoint guys, others of us (myself included) are EOTech guys.

One question to all: How is battery life with these sights? Are the specs provided by the manufacturers fantasy or close to fact?

I have two models of EOTech a Rev E(+) 552 and a newer Rev F 512.

I tested my Rev E with NiMH rechargeables a couple of years ago to see how long it would last on a realistic setting (half the time at 16, the other half the time on 17). {those of you who are team members can read the archived test at: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=172500}

I found the Rev E would run for twenty (20) eight hour cycles with 2100mAh NiMH  (note: typical Alkaline AAs are over 2800 mAh, and Lithiums are over 3100mAh).

That is 160 hours at an average setting of 16.5; while the factory claimed the sight would run for 200 hours on setting 12 on NiMH batteries (and 300 for Alkaline, 500 for Lithium).  So I'd say the factory's number were pretty good.

The newer Rev F is advertised at twice the life of the Rev E I tested.  I have no reason to doubt them.

Quoted: hat

I'm happy to see I amused you...so...easily.

Forest,

Well maybe it's a smaller world than I thought after all. Tex has a decent facility. Nice sporting clays and I'm pretty sure he has the longest rifle range within several hours drive of Pittsburgh.

Many thanks for the battery info. That's exactly the kind of skinny I was hoping to obtain with this thread.

Don't get offended, I just thought it was funny that you included "team member" as part of his name.  

Don't begrudge me the opportunity to chuckle once in awhile.  sheesh...

Quoted: Don't get offended, I just thought it was funny that you included "team member" as part of his name.   Don't begrudge me the opportunity to chuckle once in awhile.  sheesh... hr

It would take a great deal more than this to be offended. Hillary Clinton in a thong... now that's offensive. I was just surprised that someone thought it was funny enough to make note of my shaky cutting n' pasting. To each their own, I suppose.

Battery life?

Im still useing the battery WES sent with the ML2 aimpoint  about 5 years ago or more?
should last 10 years


Battery life isnt a major issue with me.

I wanted the smaller Eotech 551 so it didnt sit so  close to BUIS

Differs 1 inch  wich is alot to me!

Quoted: Battery life? Im still useing the battery WES sent with the ML2 aimpoint  about 5 years ago or more? should last 10 years Battery life isnt a major issue with me. I wanted the smaller Eotech 551 so it didnt sit so  close to BUIS Differs 1 inch  wich is alot to me!

Five years and more...now that is impressive. I agree with regards to the EOTechs. The shorter & lighter N-models hold more appeal, even if they give somewhat less life than the AA-powered units.

My first Eothingy was a 551.  I traded my Aimpoint for the first available which was a 512 with an Accucam.  I paid $195 for my Aimpoint and sold the gooseneck mount for $50 so I had $145 into it.  I just sold the Accucam for $55

Now with the 512 I had an excuse to buy a LaRue mount to raise and move the 512 forward away from my BUIS.  I do kinda like the small diameter Aimpoint knob because it is actually quick and easy to turn on- you could swipe past the side with your hand like you were spinning the cylinder on a revolver and voila, it was on!  The Eotech takes a little more "aim" to turn on.  

Quoted: I do kinda like the small diameter Aimpoint knob because it is actually quick and easy to turn on- you could swipe past the side with your hand like you were spinning the cylinder on a revolver and voila, it was on!

This is true, and for many a positive feature; however, in my experience using an Aimpoint-equipped M4 professionally, this can be the Aimpoint's greatest disadvantage, too.  Generally, we would be carrying our M4s for 8 to 16 hours every day, and in that time, you could expect at any point, to find your Aimpoint turned on without your permission.  We were not retarded, we were active infantrymen.  We all got in the habit of checking the Aimpoint constantly, which was necessary in order to have power when you needed it.  

Also, in my experience, you do have the half-moment it takes to reach down and turn the knob or push a button when you need to use your weapon without notice.  If you're at close-range, you are just a well off using your front-sight assembly and center-mass as you are a red dot...  If you are expecting a fight, you will have your optic on already; if you are taken by surprise, you will find you think much faster than you move and if you are familiar with your weapon, you are capable of turning on your sight, in all likelihood, before you even know where to point it.

In any case, in the two years I used an Aimpoint, I went through 3 to 5 batteries, due to frequent use and even more frequent accidental activations.  Generally, this wasn't too much of a problem as long as you could have spares on hand, which is a great advantage of the EoTech over the Aimpoint - AAs are much easier to find anywhere; and you carry them for other systems (GPS, NVGs, team radios, strobes, medical tools...)  Considering I've only owned an EoTech for a few days, I can not speak on it.  

As far as my astigmatism goes, I certainly know to concentrate on the target and not the reticule.  The EoTech's outer ring is a bit blurry, but the dot still seems good to go and all in all, I imagine it will work fine - I just wonder whether my old Aimpoint would look the same now that I have old-before-their-time-eyes

Thanks for the response

justbill-
I also have 25+ years of shooting with weapons from .22 all the way to 120 mm cannons. I have used sights that have different IR capabilities, and my favorite were most definately the thermal imaging ones, or TTS ( Tank Thermal Sight ). As for the Aimpoint sights, I can't give you any reply or examples as to why I like them, but they must be kick-ass, as to so many people here will testify to this. I originally was at the crossroads that you are late last year. Well, I decided to buy the 552 / rev F for my flat top Bushmaster. All I can say is after a few sessions at the range on the 50 yd and 100 yd range, I was hooked on the deadly accuracy of the EOTech 552. BTW, I found mine, brand new on the net for just $ 30 more than the model 512, so I snagged the 552 with the NV capability and other misc improvements to the other EOTech's. So many nice features also influenced my choice for the 552, that I bought the model 551 for my carry handle Bushmaster. I like the auto-off settings with the left side arrow or down adjustment at auto-off at 4 hours, and the right side or up scrolling brightness arrow shutting off at 8 hours. When you turn it on, it, being the 551 or 552, turns on to the default setting of number 12 out of 20 daytime settings. For some odd reason that is the one setting that I usually like to use the most. The brightness settings give me a bunch of adjustment settings depending on the lighting needs at daytime shooting. For the night vision ( NV ) mode there are 10 different settings to play with, and you can switch from daytime mode to NV mode with a press of the button, and it will recall the last setting used when switching back. The 551 & 552 will work in NV mode with Gen II, III, III+ and IV. I stocked up on the N-type batteries for the 551, so that was the 1st one that I drained the batteries down to where it will flash the reticle a few times ( about 5 seconds ) to let you know that there is about % 20 percent battery life left, or less, which I love this feature. When I took these EOTech sights to the range, I was truly amazed at how quickly it was to zero the sights. I started out at the 50 yd section for the 1st time, now I just go to the 100 yd range section every time. Also, I really like being able to shoot with both eyes open looking thru the sights. Also these sights are tough. I have had the 551 slam against some really hard objects, on accident by my dumb ass. I thought for sure it was going to be fried. To my surprise, not only no damage, but it was still right on target at 100 yds. On my Bushmaster with the 552 sight, I have the Arms 40 BUIS. The 551 is about 4 inches in length, and the 552 is 5 inches overall, and the 552 works very nice with the ARMS 40 on my flat top. looking at your nice looking pic of your rifle, IMO it looks like it may be really tight without an additional section, but the 551 looks like it would fit much better. Now, I do not know that for sure, but just my observation while looking at your pic, assuming that is also your BUIS set-up. As you most likely already know the 551 takes the 2 N-type 1.5 v batteries with up to 200 hours of use. The 552 can give somewhere around 1100 hrs of use, with the AA batteries. I stocked up on the AA lithium ( expensive little bastards ) batteries for my 552, not for the cold here in FLA, but the longer life of the batteries and the temp to 140 F, which can easily get in a vehicle here in FL if they are stored. For me, the 200 hours is plenty of time unless I was constantly having to have them on, which I am not. Sorry for the long post, but I just can't say how impressed I am with my 551 and 552 sights. They have proven to me to be extremely accurate, once zeroed, rugged as hell, lots of adjustments for any of my needs, and flat out sweet. I am very happy that I got these deadly accurate and tough EOTech sights. Here is a pic of my 2 Bushmaster M4 type 16 in rifles. I picked the Benny Cooley mount for my 551 and it works and adjusts great.

551 on bennie cooley  BEST WAY TO GO

I like that set up alot!

I have the 551on my LMT M4 flat top and arms 40 buis!

its okay but I like my A1 shorty with arms 39 gooseneck and ML2 aimpoit alot better!

I think when mounting a RED DOT it should be far away from your BUIS or IRONS
to take all the advantage!


BTW I would put the 551 on the Flat top to get away from BUIS

Quoted: 551 on bennie cooley  BEST WAY TO GO I like that set up alot! I have the 551on my LMT M4 flat top and arms 40 buis! its okay but I like my A1 shorty with arms 39 gooseneck and ML2 aimpoit alot better! I think when mounting a RED DOT it should be far away from your BUIS or IRONS to take all the advantage! BTW I would put the 551 on the Flat top to get away from BUIS

I agree with the Bennie Cooley mount also. This guy that designed it.... sure as hell knew what he was making!

Bump for now but I will get back to the most recent responses after work today.

I received my LaRue Tactical Eotech mount yesterday and it's very nice.  It has three slots on the raised portion for the Eotech.  The rearward slot is not for the Eotech- it's too close the the NVG mount "hump."  The middle one is perfect and now I have room to poke the buttons with my fingers.  The forward notch puts the Eotech WAY forward...

I like having a lower-third co-witness now.  When I flip up my KAC 300m, I can still line up the irons with the Eotech reticle though...

I have used both extensively.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages.  The reticle and no need for a seperate mount are what sold me on the EO Tech.  I had used the aimpoint for years, and thought it was the only game in town.  Another guy showed me his EO Tech, and I loved the reticle.  Bought one, and haven't looked back.

The switch on the EO is kinda awkward, but you're not gonna turn it on by accident like was always happening with our aimpoints (hell, they'd manage to turn themselves on in the soft cases even).  Also, close in inside a house when you're going from really dark to illuminated with your light, you could tend to lose the single dot of the aimpoint.  I haven't had either problem with the EO b/c of the big honkin 65 moa circle.

I also like the smaller dot on the EO for longer range shooting (not long range), once I figured out to look at the target and not the dot (which was the same for the aimpoint, but for whatever reason when I switched, I started looking at the pretty hologram).

What's great is the EO cost quite a bit less, and is pretty darned stout.  

Basically, I think it boils down to personal preference - but you aren't going to get a hunk of crap with either.  It's still up to you to learn to shoot with it well, and your equipment isn't going to do it.

Oh, and listen to everyone and get a flat top.  If not, you will later anyway and will be pissed you didn't listen.

Quoted: I received my LaRue Tactical Eotech mount yesterday and it's very nice.  It has three slots on the raised portion for the Eotech.  The rearward slot is not for the Eotech- it's too close the the NVG mount "hump."  The middle one is perfect and now I have room to poke the buttons with my fingers.  The forward notch puts the Eotech WAY forward... I like having a lower-third co-witness now.  When I flip up my KAC 300m, I can still line up the irons with the Eotech reticle though...

Sounds like it's working the way it's supposed to.  I will probably try one of those EOTech risers some time and when I do it will be the LaRue.

yeah, it's one of those things where you know it's right but it doesn't seem like it should be...

That just reinforces the idea that the reticle can be anywhere in the window and will still be on top of whatever your rifle is zeroed to hit.  It makes sense that when you line up the irons on a target that the reticle "finds its way" to the tip of the front sight when normally you wouldn't use just the Eotech with the reticle that low in the window if you didn't have to.

bf2: Thanks for the detailed response. From what I've gleaned in this thread and a few IM's, I'm starting to seriously lean towards the EOTech. The Bennie Cooley mount looks interesting as well.

JosephR: Can you post some pics of the LaRue?

Quoted: bf2: Thanks for the detailed response. From what I've gleaned in this thread and a few IM's, I'm starting to seriously lean towards the EOTech. The Bennie Cooley mount looks interesting as well. JosephR: Can you post some pics of the LaRue?

I'll try and take some when it's nice and sunny tomorrow.  My camera only works well with natural light.  I can't diffuse artificial light well enough yet...

I'll tell you what- the LaRue is good at tearing Duracoat off of my rifle though.  

It's not sharp- it just squeezes nice and hard.  

One thing I'm impressed with is it's little ball bearing up front.  The right side of the mount is the one with the grabbers for the underside of the rail.  The left side only has the one single lever in the rear but up front it's got a spring loaded ball detent that will literally hold the mount on the flattop by itself.  

I plan on taking some nice pictures of that along with their new (somewhat new) sliding plastic cover on the lever that locks it in place.  I haven't seen these details anywhere else and thought I'd share them.

Quoted: Quoted: I do kinda like the small diameter Aimpoint knob because it is actually quick and easy to turn on- you could swipe past the side with your hand like you were spinning the cylinder on a revolver and voila, it was on!     This is true, and for many a positive feature; however, in my experience using an Aimpoint-equipped M4 professionally, this can be the Aimpoint's greatest disadvantage, too.  Generally, we would be carrying our M4s for 8 to 16 hours every day, and in that time, you could expect at any point, to find your Aimpoint turned on without your permission.  We were not retarded, we were active infantrymen.  We all got in the habit of checking the Aimpoint constantly, which was necessary in order to have power when you needed it.   Also, in my experience, you do have the half-moment it takes to reach down and turn the knob or push a button when you need to use your weapon without notice.  If you're at close-range, you are just a well off using your front-sight assembly and center-mass as you are a red dot...  If you are expecting a fight, you will have your optic on already; if you are taken by surprise, you will find you think much faster than you move and if you are familiar with your weapon, you are capable of turning on your sight, in all likelihood, before you even know where to point it. In any case, in the two years I used an Aimpoint, I went through 3 to 5 batteries, due to frequent use and even more frequent accidental activations.  Generally, this wasn't too much of a problem as long as you could have spares on hand, which is a great advantage of the EoTech over the Aimpoint - AAs are much easier to find anywhere; and you carry them for other systems (GPS, NVGs, team radios, strobes, medical tools...)  Considering I've only owned an EoTech for a few days, I can not speak on it.   As far as my astigmatism goes, I certainly know to concentrate on the target and not the reticule.  The EoTech's outer ring is a bit blurry, but the dot still seems good to go and all in all, I imagine it will work fine - I just wonder whether my old Aimpoint would look the same now that I have old-before-their-time-eyes Thanks for the response

I'm assuming you had a ML2, the M2 doesn't have an off position.  It is always on, just can't see it in NV levels.  

The EOTech is nice, I sold it because of the reticle.  I really like my M2 on the LaRue mount.  Much better for me.  But, I may buy another 512 for my new FN Self Loading Police shotgun

I'm 99% sure it was an M2.  It was older and from a large lot we got in a group buy.  I thought the thing was off when the two white dots on the knob and battery housing lined up...

I thought the instructions mentioned something about turning it's settings with one being off but I wouldn't dare argue about it.  I could barely see the second position so I could understand the first being an on for NVG only...

Mine was an issue M68, which did have an off position, but I'm not sure what the civilian nomenclature is.  I did use it frequently with night vision, though, since my PAC-4 was always so far off, and it worked very, very well.