User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 5:10:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I think you made to good choices! If you need any help just let me know we stock and sell Trijicon. The ACCUPOINT is closer to the S&B. I like the ACOGS more! Mike @ CSGW |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 5:40:37 PM EDT
[#2]
1-4 accupoint. I will never again own an ACOG. C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 5:52:35 PM EDT
[#3]
You like them that much? Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 6:13:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Its not so much that I like the Accupoint, but 1-4 variable optics in general (SN-4, NF, S&B, etc). I have watched to many ACOG shooters struggle at CQB distances (slow on target, slow on follow up shots, etc) to use one again. The ability to pick your power based on your distances is a GREAT THING! C4 |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 6:19:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Suuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrre, after you sell ME one 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 7:05:53 PM EDT
[#6]
I have a TA31 donut of death, I have yet to mount. But I was thinking about an accupoint. The 1-4 does make sense.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 7:09:33 PM EDT
[#7]
LOL, I didn't say my opinion was correct!  I also do have SOME proof to back up my comments.C4 |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 7:32:51 PM EDT
[#8]
I am going with a TA01 w/ a Jpoint on its back. I think this combo is rather nice.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/13/2005 7:57:02 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm going with a 3-9 accupoint on my upcoming recce build.
I think 3x + the BAC will still allow me to be fast enough up close, and the 9x will help out alot at a distance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 4:28:11 AM EDT
[#10]
i have a ta31f on mine but want to swap it for something along the lines of nightforce
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 5:54:05 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm really becoming sold on the 1-4x variable's! I may even skip the magnified EOTech and go with a 1-4x variable scope because I'm starting to believe this concept is the best way to go for a general purpose scope that will not hinder CQB shooting. Now the things I really need is a good reticle with good daytime visible light, decent battery power, true 1x at the low end and pricing that's closer to the ACOG than the S&B Shortdot. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 6:10:58 AM EDT
[#12]
I really think the 1-4 Accupoint is the best bang for the buck with the NF/Leupold/SN-4 being being next in line with the S&B being the best. C4 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 6:15:04 AM EDT
[#13]
THE FIRST RECCE/RECON UPPERS I SAW SEALS SHOOTING AT MID-SOUTH IN '99 HAD LEUPOLD LRM3'S.
HERE'S WHAT M.S.T.N. CUSTOMERS HAVE SELECTED: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=134&t=147029 OTHER GOOD CHOICES BESIDES WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE HERE ARE THE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED TRIJICON 1-4X ACCUPOINT AND THE TA-11 SERIES. OF COURSE, WE'RE LOOKING VERY FORWARD TO SEEING THE NEW NIGHTFORCE 1-4 NXS, AS WELL. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 6:24:33 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm a huge fan of the Accupoint, owning a 3X9, 1-4, and a couple ACOG's. For hunting purposes, I absolutely swear by the 3X9 for my bolt action deer rifle - I dropped my deer last fall at 20 yards on a dead run soley because of the BAC. I intend to get a 1-4 Accupoint for my lever action brush gun. However, on my M4gery I'd run nothing but an Aimpoint. My latest SPR build has a TA31A, and I couldn't be happier with my optic spread!  For a Recce I don't think you could go wrong with an Accupoint 1-4 or an full size ACOG. Bottom line is that the BAC feature is too good to NOT have! My 2 cents. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 6:35:34 AM EDT
[#15]
For now mine is going to sport a Aimpoint ML3 and Aimpoint 3x. Going from magnified to unmagnified in one flip of the rifle (or removal of LT mount) in a second is just plain useful.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 10:26:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Hopefully NF has fixed its low illumination issues...
I played with the Accupoint a bit, still debating for my next recce clone. The Jpoint/DrOptic/Optima Red Dot CQS mod to the ACOG's does help a lot. TA31/TA11's are not bad - but not quite as fast or as precise as a CCO or Variable setup. If your not playing for 'real' the extra cost on the S&B etc are not likely worth it... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 11:05:39 AM EDT
[#17]
What about the Horus Talon? I think a member(hycheng) has one but I don't think he was running it on an AR.
It looks pretty good and the reticle looks well designed. The battery life didn't sound so good but it seems like a really good scope. BTW, does anyone know what size the center dot is when the Talon is on 4x? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 11:23:41 AM EDT
[#18]
I just got one in to do testing on. I think it will hang with the big boys (NF, USO, S&B) for about half the price. I will have to double check on the dot, but think it is a 3 or 4 MOA. C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 11:27:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Keep us updated. Im interested. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 11:28:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Sounds good, I look forward to your review. BTW, IM me and let me know what your pricing for the Talons will be. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 11:35:54 AM EDT
[#21]
My price on the Talon would be $795 and will do a package deal with the LT SPR mount. Since I broke my SN-4 and my S&B won't be here till the end of next month I will be running the Talon. The Talon beats the SN-4 in cost, weight and has a better battery life. The TRUE test is to see how much better the S&B is than the Talon. C4 |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 12:30:02 PM EDT
[#22]
+1 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 3:45:03 PM EDT
[#23]
I dont understand why people group 1.25 and 1.5 minimum power variables with 1X minimum power variables. The 1X is super easy for me to use and the 1.25 and 1.5X are almost as hard to use as the BAC ACOGs.
I am looking forward to see how the Horus Talon stacks up to the Meopta Meostar. I think those two optics are going to be some of the best optics for the money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 5:27:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Not everybody's you. As far as the optic goes, define your want/need/mission and go from there. I have a RECCE with a 3-9 MR/T on it that I shoot at 300-600yds. It is appropriate. If for CQB, that's not appropriate. I have another RECCEish with a TA-31F that gets shot out to 200yds. It is appropriate. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 5:57:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Delete
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2005 5:59:29 PM EDT
[#26]
My thoughts exactly. I'm anxiously awaiting this comparison. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2005 3:54:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Talked Horus Vision today and here's a few things I found out about the Talon.
1. Outer ring is 18 MOA at 4x. 2. Center dot is 4 MOA at 4x. 3. Waterproof down to 2 meters. 4. Eye relief 4.3"-3.5". 5. Length 9.75" 6. Weight 15.9 oz. 7. Battery - CR2032, 20 hours at highest setting. 8. Warranty - Lifetime. Everything looks good to me so far except that I wouldn't mind if the center dot a bit smaller, maybe 2 MOA. Grant have you used it yet? Just wondering what your initial thoughts are on this scope. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2005 5:16:52 PM EDT
[#28]
I now have this optic mounted and have used it. My initial impression is that this is a quality optic from a quality company. C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2005 5:28:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Got any pics of your Talon setup? Also, how good was the reticle illumination? Was it easy to see the reticle on a bright sunny day? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2005 5:32:07 PM EDT
[#30]
No pics yet, but will try and get some this weekend. The illumination of the reticle is better than that of the SN-4, but still isn't as good as the S&B I have seen. C4 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2005 5:57:19 PM EDT
[#31]
#1 doesn't sound right to me. Check out the large image of the Talon's reticle. The radius to the inside edge of the circle appears to be 12.5 mils. That results in an inside diameter of about 86 MOA or 90" @ 100 yards. Besides reducing the size of the center dot, I think the scope would benefit from ditching the mil tree for something less cluttered, like a regular mil scale. It seems a bit overboard for a 1-4x. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2005 7:13:58 PM EDT
[#32]
I don't understand why anyone would want a 1x4 power optic on their RECCE/Recon rifle in the first place
 The Recon rifle was originally intended to be a light weight/handy PRECISION rifle, used for "targets of opportunity" (Hunting). After building and shooting one for the past few months I can tell you that limiting yourself too a 4X optic is ridicules considering the barrels accuracy potential (Dennys recon barrel in my case). I'm now playing with a cheap 2.5X10 power scope and much prefer the results compared to my higher dollar 1x4 variables! The "RECCE/Recon" rifle was NEVER intended to be a CQB weapon (even though it could fulfill the roll with the proper optic)! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 3:24:02 AM EDT
[#33]
A 4x scope is perfect for a Recce carbine because what it requires is a good general purpse scope that can make some long shots if needed. It may be used for CQB and it may be used for long shots but the whole idea is flexibility. The purpose of the Recce carbine was not the same as an SPR so you don't need to put a high power scope on it. In fact the SPR was nothing like what the SEAL's wanted at all. I'm not saying you can't put a high powered scope on one just that it's not part of the Recce concept. Here's how Navy SEAL on another forum described the Recon/Recce carbine. "It is simply a 16" barrel (current manufacturer eludes me as I write but it is not that fancy) with the KAC flash-hider on a flattop upper. I believe it still has a fixed front sight post. SEALs have a host of BUIS options to choose from. The favorite, by far, is the KAC 600m BUIS. SEAL snipers have a wide range of optics to select for their weapons. My personal favorite(and that of my Teammates) is the 4X SOF ACOG. It has good optics, is waterproof and extremely durable. Many of us have recently shifted them onto A.R.M.S. throw lever bases for quick detach purposes. A 4x optic, especially a variable, is an excellent choice for a Recce carbine if you're trying to go by the orginal concept. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 3:30:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Hmmm, looking at that reticle close up it looks like you may be right. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 3:40:43 AM EDT
[#35]
You can do whatever you like with it. Generally though, you see the more powerful optics on the SPR and not the recce. C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 10:06:50 AM EDT
[#36]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 12:21:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Great pics Grant, looks like a great setup with the LaRue SPR mount!
BTW, does the outer ring appear to be larger that the EOTechs? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 12:55:40 PM EDT
[#38]
The setup looks good together!
BTW: I thought I was the only one that likes to use the bipod backwards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 1:19:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Grant, is the reticle bright enough to use "Aimpoint style" in sunlight?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 1:32:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Thanks on the pics. The ring is thicker, but appears to be about the same diameter as the EOTech. You could easily use the ring for snap shooting out to 25yds. C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 1:34:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Someone told me to try the bipod backwards and see what I thought (no sure yet). C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2005 1:35:35 PM EDT
[#42]
The reticle is brighter than the SN-4, but not as bright as the S&B and is NOT visible in full sun light. C4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 2:24:01 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm just wondering how big of an issue that is since in bright sunlight the circle dot reticle should very usuable without illumination. The bright red dot on the S&B may help a lot but I'm wondering if it's because the S&B's reticle isn't as CQB freindly as Talon's cicle dot reticle.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 2:50:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Well I ran my SN-4 through Pat Rogers Carbine Class and NEVER turned the illumination on. I was the high shooter for the class so I guess it works ok! C4 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:23:38 PM EDT
[#45]
 BTW, during the class did you find yourself adjusting the power on your SN-4 often or did you just leave it on certain power setting for the most part? I've never used a variable for any training and I was wondering how often the different power settings are used. I guess a lot depends on the type of shooting being done. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:35:50 PM EDT
[#46]
While Not Grant,
I found for the S&B it is best to leave it on 1.1 and rotate up when necessary for tgt detection/descrimination - or longer ranges... As the times you need it quick the 1.1 is not a hindernace - anything else you have a bit of time |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 4:08:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Thanks for your input Kevin! So it sounds like the SOP for the variables is to use them on the lowest setting and dial-up as needed, correct? What are your thoughts on the necessity of an illuminated dot or reticle when shooting in bright sunlight? Also, if you've had any experience with the Horus Talon please share your thoughts on it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 4:29:01 PM EDT
[#48]
For the most part the optic was on either 1 or 2 power. When at the 50yd line and needed to make a certain shot I would use 4 power. For walking and shooting drills I generally always stayed on 1 power. C4 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 4:31:01 PM EDT
[#49]
I agree with Kevin. I would always keep mine on 1X and then change power if needed. While it would be helpful to have a red dot/chevron or donut it is NOT a MUST HAVE IMHO. C4 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2005 4:51:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Excellent! So, the most noticable advantage the S&B has over the Talon is the brighter dot illumination. This advantage while nice is not really necessary for the most part. IIRC, the S&B also has more durable and has better waterproofing but I guess that's what you get for the extra cost. It really does sound like a low power variable is the way to go. I was looking hard at the magnified EOTech but the extra complexcity and bulk of the added magnfier has started to turn me off.  Next I was looking hard at a TA31a, but after reading about the experiences that you guys had with BAC and how it worked but hindered close range shooting I figured I didn't need to reinvent the wheel only to come to the same conclusion all you have. That BAC ain't all that...  So I might as well get straight to the point and find a good 1-4x general purpose scope! 
|
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
