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Posted: 8/4/2009 12:47:16 AM EDT
[#1]
M955 is legally not available.
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Posted: 8/4/2009 2:00:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Scam.
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Posted: 8/4/2009 6:18:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
M955 is legally not available. How so? Its legal to buy and sell as a civillian. Next you will tell me full autos and silencers are illegal. Additionally the seller is not stating this ammo is M995. I highly suspect its just moly coated SS109 bullets. If the seller had an FFL it would be illegal to sell due to federal law if it was AP ammo, but if he does not he can sell it all day long. As long as your state does not ban AP ammo of the particular caliber you can buy from a non FFL or and FFL... the federal law applies to the FFL selling AP ammo. |
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Posted: 8/4/2009 6:39:47 AM EDT
[#4]
It is just moly coated M855 bullets.
Someone made a bunch of these some time back, and every so often you see them pop up for sale. I don't know the details, but it looked to me that someone moly coated pulled 62 grain rounds, reloaded them, and were trying to pass them off as something rare and special. |
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Posted: 8/4/2009 6:59:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Whatever it is, it's definitely NOT M995.
I love the description: .223/5.56/SS109/M193/M855/M118/AP/SP/Itdoesalittlebitofeverything 10rnds |
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Posted: 8/4/2009 8:43:08 AM EDT
[#6]
What a friggin joke. I'd love to grab the seller by the ear....and shake the piss out of him.
Maj |
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Posted: 8/4/2009 2:01:34 PM EDT
[#7]
You Marines are way to much "in touch with your gentler, inner self" these days. 
Us Army guys would stomp the living shit out of the Motherfucker! 
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Posted: 8/4/2009 2:29:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
You Marines are way to much "in touch with your gentler, inner self" these days.
Us Army guys would stomp the living shit out of the Motherfucker!
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Posted: 8/4/2009 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#9]
XM875 is soooo much better than that stuff.
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Posted: 8/4/2009 5:07:31 PM EDT
[#10]
I've been trying to get my hands on some of that stuff! 
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Posted: 8/4/2009 7:49:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Like always, buyer beware.
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Posted: 8/5/2009 4:55:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
M955 is legally not available. How so? Its legal to buy and sell as a civillian. Next you will tell me full autos and silencers are illegal. Additionally the seller is not stating this ammo is M995. It falls under the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" ammunition, and unlike both M855 and GI .30-'06 AP is NOT specifically exempted from the legal ban on "cop killer" bullets. In other words, "it is not legally available to civilians." Really. Further, the Gun Owner Protection Act of 1986 MAKES full auto guns illegal. "It is an affirmative defense" that the gun is registered and properly transferred, but the law still says they're illegal. Quoted:
SS109 bullets have a STEEL penetrator, while the auction says these bullets have a tungsten penetrator. The tungsten is what would make the bullets contraband, since tungsten cores are specifically called out in the law as being prohibited. If they ain't really "tungsten core," then the auction is not only a scam it's legally fraud.
I highly suspect its just moly coated SS109 bullets. If the seller had an FFL it would be illegal to sell due to federal law if it was AP ammo, but if he does not he can sell it all day long. As long as your state does not ban AP ammo of the particular caliber you can buy from a non FFL or and FFL... the federal law applies to the FFL selling AP ammo. |
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Posted: 8/5/2009 8:42:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
It falls under the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" ammunition, and unlike both M855 and GI .30-'06 AP is NOT specifically exempted from the legal ban on "cop killer" bullets. In other words, "it is not legally available to civilians." Really. The US Dept of Energy has 5.56mm AP available at some national lab sites and for use during nuke materials transport ops. The controls are EXTRAORDINARY. DOE security forces are generally not DOD, and likely to be industry contractors. I am aware of one event where training was held at a remote site and a couple pallets of ammo were flown in. After the exercise, every round of returned AP ammunition was individually inspected. Inspectors found FIVE hand-painted black bullets and the SHTF. I read the Inspector General's report. You poor stupid bastards. Take away: It ain't worth getting caught. If I think I need 5.56 AP, I'm switching to 300 Win Mag. and 165 grain Barnes Solids. |
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Posted: 8/6/2009 9:41:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M955 is legally not available. How so? Its legal to buy and sell as a civillian. Next you will tell me full autos and silencers are illegal. Additionally the seller is not stating this ammo is M995. It falls under the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" ammunition, and unlike both M855 and GI .30-'06 AP is NOT specifically exempted from the legal ban on "cop killer" bullets. In other words, "it is not legally available to civilians." Really. Further, the Gun Owner Protection Act of 1986 MAKES full auto guns illegal. "It is an affirmative defense" that the gun is registered and properly transferred, but the law still says they're illegal. Quoted:
SS109 bullets have a STEEL penetrator, while the auction says these bullets have a tungsten penetrator. The tungsten is what would make the bullets contraband, since tungsten cores are specifically called out in the law as being prohibited. If they ain't really "tungsten core," then the auction is not only a scam it's legally fraud.
I highly suspect its just moly coated SS109 bullets. If the seller had an FFL it would be illegal to sell due to federal law if it was AP ammo, but if he does not he can sell it all day long. As long as your state does not ban AP ammo of the particular caliber you can buy from a non FFL or and FFL... the federal law applies to the FFL selling AP ammo. Here are the federal definitions of AP ammo. Now, if it only uses a tungsten penetrator why is it illegal? Under the federal AP laws it would have to be all tungsten to be illegal for us to manufacture/use, unless the core is something other than lead which s probably the case. I have always wondered why someone hasn't designed a defacto AP round for civilians that doesn't meet the federal definitions (for example you could design a round with a tungsten penetrator, and a 75%steel / 25% lead core and it would be legal) "The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17): "(B) The term `armor piercing ammunition' means- (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. (C) The term `armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes" |
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Posted: 8/6/2009 1:12:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I highlighted the important wording. A "penetrator" in our usage is no different from a "core" as far as I can tell. This is why M2 AP needed a specific exception: some of it was made with tungsten cores (which are indistinguishable in basic shape from the steel "penetrator" in M855).
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or |
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Posted: 8/6/2009 2:13:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I highlighted the important wording. A "penetrator" in our usage is no different from a "core" as far as I can tell. This is why M2 AP needed a specific exception: some of it was made with tungsten cores (which are indistinguishable in basic shape from the steel "penetrator" in M855).
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or Figures, any person familiar in the least with firearm terminology would read that as what the bullet consists of under the jacket, of course the ATF would interperet it in the way that allows them to ban the most things. |
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Posted: 8/6/2009 4:10:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I highlighted the important wording. A "penetrator" in our usage is no different from a "core" as far as I can tell. This is why M2 AP needed a specific exception: some of it was made with tungsten cores (which are indistinguishable in basic shape from the steel "penetrator" in M855).
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or Figures, any person familiar in the least with firearm terminology would read that as what the bullet consists of under the jacket, of course the ATF would interperet it in the way that allows them to ban the most things. It's not ATF, it's the way Congress WANTED it to be interpreted. This stupid law came from the hoo-haw about "cop killer" bullets. And there's STILL no evidence of ANY armor piercing ammunition being used against law enforcement officers here in the US, let alone the developed FOR law enforcement KTW bullets. In this case, ATF just has to follow the rules Congress set out. |
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Posted: 8/7/2009 2:35:33 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
You Marines are way to much "in touch with your gentler, inner self" these days.
Us Army guys would stomp the living shit out of the Motherfucker! your shitting me right? |
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Posted: 8/7/2009 5:25:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
It falls under the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" ammunition, and unlike both M855 and GI .30-'06 AP is NOT specifically exempted from the legal ban on "cop killer" bullets. In other words, "it is not legally available to civilians." Really. You have quoted what AP ammo is... now show me where its illegal to posses or sell as an individual and not as an FFL holder. If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual): ok to OWN AP ammo ok to SELL AP ammo ok to BUY AP ammo ok to SHOOT AP ammo NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC 922(a)(7)) NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC 922(a)(7)) The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10 FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year. Do not assume that becasue something is given a definition by the govt that its banned for civilian use and purchase... and be careful when you try to tell me that I dont know what I am talking about concerning firearms on the internet. I am right 99.9% of the time after all.
Individual state laws may ban AP ammo but federal law does not. Not for individuals anyway. |
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Posted: 8/7/2009 11:17:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You Marines are way to much "in touch with your gentler, inner self" these days.
Us Army guys would stomp the living shit out of the Motherfucker! your shitting me right? Your Sarcasm-Fu is weak, Grasshopper. 
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Posted: 8/7/2009 3:41:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It falls under the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" ammunition, and unlike both M855 and GI .30-'06 AP is NOT specifically exempted from the legal ban on "cop killer" bullets. In other words, "it is not legally available to civilians." Really. You have quoted what AP ammo is... now show me where its illegal to posses or sell as an individual and not as an FFL holder. If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual): ok to OWN AP ammo ok to SELL AP ammo ok to BUY AP ammo ok to SHOOT AP ammo NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC 922(a)(7)) NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC 922(a)(7)) The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10 FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year. Do not assume that becasue something is given a definition by the govt that its banned for civilian use and purchase... and be careful when you try to tell me that I dont know what I am talking about concerning firearms on the internet. I am right 99.9% of the time after all.
Individual state laws may ban AP ammo but federal law does not. Not for individuals anyway. Title 18, Section 922(a)(8) says It shall be unlawful— for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery—
...which means that the only way to get this sort of stuff into civilian hands is through an illegal act, making it contraband.
(A) is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State; (B) is for the purpose of exportation; or (C) is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General; |
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Posted: 8/7/2009 4:20:31 PM EDT
[#22]
They can throw it away in the gutter. Someone can pick it up. It can be given to a LE Dept who then sells it or gives it away on its own. It does not have to be "transfered" by a banned importer or manufacturer directly to an individual. Look at the NV market... tons of LE Depts sell NV when the manufacturer will not sell to individuals and nothing prevents a dept from selling AP ammo to raise funds in the same manner. A dept can also give ammo to officers and that officer can give it or sell it to someone else. Ammo is for an officer to do with as he or she wishes. You are wrong, please accept it and move on instead of making absurd arguements. There is a market for AP ammo of all types. It is a legal market. Mods on this board have bought and sold AP ammo.
So what does this leave us with... the ammo is NOT contraband in civilian hands by definition. It has to be PROVEN to be so. Ammo that does not have a box with lot number cant be proven to be contraband and therefore cant be illegal for an individual to own. All the time people buy .308 AP, 9mm AP, 5.7mm AP, and any other caliber you can think of. And its LEGAL to buy, sell, own, and shoot. |
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Posted: 8/7/2009 4:50:54 PM EDT
[#23]
It would be illegal based on the above for a MANUFACTURER to sell to a civilian––-it is LEGAL for the manufacturer to sell to an agency or LE, it is then legal for an individual in the agency to sell to a civilian or individual not otherwise prohibited (by state law or other gay reason). Correct?
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Posted: 8/8/2009 5:42:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Would it not be "theft" for an individual LEO to take department property and sell it-or even give it away? I sure don't want any police officer handing out stuff MY TAXES have paid for.
It would be illegal based on the above for a MANUFACTURER to sell to a civilian––-it is LEGAL for the manufacturer to sell to an agency or LE, it is then legal for an individual in the agency to sell to a civilian or individual not otherwise prohibited (by state law or other gay reason). Correct? |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 5:53:37 AM EDT
[#25]
SSA makes AP'S (tungsten core) under our type 10 license. We can only sell to government agencies, testing lab's or for export with State department approval. We log every sale, our end user must supply a certificate stating it is only for the their use and they will not transfer the rounds to another agency or individual. If someone takes this ammo home or re-sales it they are in violation of the law.
Art - SSA |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 6:00:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Once fired brass was used for the cases. 
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Posted: 8/8/2009 8:03:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It falls under the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" ammunition, and unlike both M855 and GI .30-'06 AP is NOT specifically exempted from the legal ban on "cop killer" bullets. In other words, "it is not legally available to civilians." Really. You have quoted what AP ammo is... now show me where its illegal to posses or sell as an individual and not as an FFL holder. If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual): ok to OWN AP ammo ok to SELL AP ammo ok to BUY AP ammo ok to SHOOT AP ammo NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC 922(a)(7)) NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC 922(a)(7)) The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10 FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year. Do not assume that because something is given a definition by the govt that its banned for civilian use and purchase... and be careful when you try to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about concerning firearms on the Internet. I am right 99.9% of the time after all.
Individual state laws may ban AP ammo but federal law does not. Not for individuals anyway. Title 18, Section 922(a)(8) says It shall be unlawful— for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery—
...which means that the only way to get this sort of stuff into civilian hands is through an illegal act, making it contraband.(A) is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State; (B) is for the purpose of exportation; or (C) is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General; Wrong! The current AP ammunition import/manufacture/sales restrictions took effect on September 13, 1994 after being fast tracked down our throat by Klinton. FFLs received a flier in '94 to cease selling all the "armor piercing ammunition" included on ATF's list to individuals. The steel core 7.62x39 cartridge was the real focus and was specifically labeled as "armor piercing" even though it is actually a ball ammunition cartridge just like U.S. M59 7.62x51mm. Most all the other cartridges specifically listed in these new restrictions including 7.62x51mm SLAP, M-61, KTW, THV, Arcane, WW2 German 9mm, etc were legally manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to non-FFLs prior to September 13, 1994. The Swedish designed/manufactured tungsten penetrator AP cartridges that were later type classified as U.S. M993 & M995 were also legally manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to non-FFLs prior to the current restrictions taking effect. These early cartridges can be legally purchased from non-FFLs as long as you adhere to all Federal, State, and local laws. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 8:46:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would it not be "theft" for an individual LEO to take department property and sell it-or even give it away? I sure don't want any police officer handing out stuff MY TAXES have paid for.
It would be illegal based on the above for a MANUFACTURER to sell to a civilian––-it is LEGAL for the manufacturer to sell to an agency or LE, it is then legal for an individual in the agency to sell to a civilian or individual not otherwise prohibited (by state law or other gay reason). Correct? No it is not. They are given items like duty gear, ammo, etc. It is theirs to do with as they wish. They can shoot it, sell it, or give it away. It belongs to them just like any other property owned by a person. Anything a dept gives vs issues and wants back at the end of your career is yours. This often includes bullet proof vests which an officer can sell and then buy an upgrade. It all varys from one department to another... but almost all departments I know of that give ammo... GIVE you the ammo, vs loan it to you or have any regualtions on it. You can shoot it for practice and buy more on your own, shoot it an d buy something better if you dont have a specified dept load, give it away, or do with as anyone else who owned something could. Its individual regualtions... not law. My academy instructor was a former SWAT leader/ instructor for a federal agency and he would give away ammo to whoever would want it and he said he must have given away over a million rounds in his career. Local cops, shooting buddies, random people at the range, he had a HUGE amount of ammo given to his team for training but not given enough time to use the ammo they were given. So rather than just let it sit around he wanted someone to use it. His only rule was that he could not "sell" the ammo. Giving it away was not selling it. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 10:10:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
BUT ammunition that was manufactured AS type-classified M993 and M995 was manufactured after the cut off date and is thus controlled. If it's MARKED M993 or M995, and it is in civilian hands, that makes it contraband.
The Swedish designed/manufactured tungsten penetrator AP cartridges that were later type classified as U.S. M993 & M995 were also legally manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to non-FFLs prior to the current restrictions taking effect. These early cartridges can be legally purchased from non-FFLs as long as you adhere to all Federal, State, and local laws. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 10:15:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
That's disturbing. My tax dollars are funding "parting gifts" for police officers? Not cool. Considering that the "parting gifts" I got when I retired from the military consisted of certificates suitable for framing, I'm appalled by this information.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would it not be "theft" for an individual LEO to take department property and sell it-or even give it away? I sure don't want any police officer handing out stuff MY TAXES have paid for.
It would be illegal based on the above for a MANUFACTURER to sell to a civilian––-it is LEGAL for the manufacturer to sell to an agency or LE, it is then legal for an individual in the agency to sell to a civilian or individual not otherwise prohibited (by state law or other gay reason). Correct? No it is not. They are given items like duty gear, ammo, etc. It is theirs to do with as they wish. They can shoot it, sell it, or give it away. It belongs to them just like any other property owned by a person. Anything a dept gives vs issues and wants back at the end of your career is yours. This often includes bullet proof vests which an officer can sell and then buy an upgrade. It all varys from one department to another... but almost all departments I know of that give ammo... GIVE you the ammo, vs loan it to you or have any regualtions on it. You can shoot it for practice and buy more on your own, shoot it an d buy something better if you dont have a specified dept load, give it away, or do with as anyone else who owned something could. Its individual regualtions... not law. My academy instructor was a former SWAT leader/ instructor for a federal agency and he would give away ammo to whoever would want it and he said he must have given away over a million rounds in his career. Local cops, shooting buddies, random people at the range, he had a HUGE amount of ammo given to his team for training but not given enough time to use the ammo they were given. So rather than just let it sit around he wanted someone to use it. His only rule was that he could not "sell" the ammo. Giving it away was not selling it. It's also in my opinion completely contrary to Congress' intention with the part of Title 18 we're discussing. They intended to keep new armor piercing ammunition out of the hands of civilians, and this "we're giving you this ammunition" stuff is a huge loophole. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 11:54:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Stay on topic please!
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:55:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BUT ammunition that was manufactured AS type-classified M993 and M995 was manufactured after the cut off date and is thus controlled. If it's MARKED M993 or M995, and it is in civilian hands, that makes it contraband.
The Swedish designed/manufactured tungsten penetrator AP cartridges that were later type classified as U.S. M993 & M995 were also legally manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to non-FFLs prior to the current restrictions taking effect. These early cartridges can be legally purchased from non-FFLs as long as you adhere to all Federal, State, and local laws. This thread is not just about M995 AP. It is about 5.56mm AP cartridges, of which there are quite a few different types. U.S., Swedish, Belgian, French, Dutch, and possibly more 5.56mm AP types were lawfully manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to individuals prior to Klinton's '94 manufacturing/import/sales restrictions. I have never seen a single genuine U.S. M995 cartridge offered for sale in the U.S. to an individual, so your point is rather mute. My point is that virtually all the genuine 5.56mm AP cartridges offered for sale in the U.S. to individuals were made prior to the 1994 restrictions. 5.56mm AP cartridges have been around since the '60s. Non-FFL to non-FFL sales of these 5.56mm AP cartridges is lawful if done in compliance with all Federal, State, and local laws. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 4:25:54 PM EDT
[#33]
We used to see SS109 in the origional box by the case at the gun shows in FL all the time and when asked the FDLE and State police (FHP) used to say it was legal. Never thought to ask about the FFL /Non FFl question. When i pulled 5 bullets they all weighed 62 grains and were boat tail open lead base. All had steel cores when I took them to the bench grinder. I would beat them into a piece of 2x1 and grind in half exposing the stell penetrator. That being said they would penetrate 1/4" steel plate at 25 yards as would my 55grain ballistic tips. The difference was at 100 yards the nosler bullet would crater the plate and the SS109 would crater the plate and leave a tiny hole where the penetrator went through. Used were a Armalite M-15 Infantry model and a Colt AR-15 A2 Govt. carbine . I dont profess to be a lawyer or such but this was in 2004 and there were lots of FFL holders at this show. Maybe its just FL??
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Posted: 8/8/2009 6:21:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I thought the thread was about the ammo the OP posted about-something that claimed to be "the real deal," which would be M993/995.
Quoted:
Quoted:
BUT ammunition that was manufactured AS type-classified M993 and M995 was manufactured after the cut off date and is thus controlled. If it's MARKED M993 or M995, and it is in civilian hands, that makes it contraband.
The Swedish designed/manufactured tungsten penetrator AP cartridges that were later type classified as U.S. M993 & M995 were also legally manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to non-FFLs prior to the current restrictions taking effect. These early cartridges can be legally purchased from non-FFLs as long as you adhere to all Federal, State, and local laws. This thread is not just about M995 AP. It is about 5.56mm AP cartridges, of which there are quite a few different types. U.S., Swedish, Belgian, French, Dutch, and possibly more 5.56mm AP types were lawfully manufactured/imported/bought/sold/traded to individuals prior to Klinton's '94 manufacturing/import/sales restrictions. I have never seen a single genuine U.S. M995 cartridge offered for sale in the U.S. to an individual, so your point is rather mute. My point is that virtually all the genuine 5.56mm AP cartridges offered for sale in the U.S. to individuals were made prior to the 1994 restrictions. 5.56mm AP cartridges have been around since the '60s. Non-FFL to non-FFL sales of these 5.56mm AP cartridges is lawful if done in compliance with all Federal, State, and local laws. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 8:51:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
We used to see SS109 in the origional box by the case at the gun shows in FL all the time and when asked the FDLE and State police (FHP) used to say it was legal. Never thought to ask about the FFL /Non FFl question. When i pulled 5 bullets they all weighed 62 grains and were boat tail open lead base. All had steel cores when I took them to the bench grinder. I would beat them into a piece of 2x1 and grind in half exposing the stell penetrator. That being said they would penetrate 1/4" steel plate at 25 yards as would my 55grain ballistic tips. The difference was at 100 yards the nosler bullet would crater the plate and the SS109 would crater the plate and leave a tiny hole where the penetrator went through. Used were a Armalite M-15 Infantry model and a Colt AR-15 A2 Govt. carbine . I dont profess to be a lawyer or such but this was in 2004 and there were lots of FFL holders at this show. Maybe its just FL?? SS109 is not AP ammo. |
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