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Posted: 9/1/2008 9:11:12 PM EDT
[#1]
No disrespect, but you may just want to consider chucking rocks instead.
The round was designed around high velocity in order to create energy from a very small bullet. Why would you want a slow, weak bullet? For plinking, perhaps, but then, who cares about the subsonic aspect? |
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Posted: 9/2/2008 11:27:37 AM EDT
[#2]
If you are playing with a "can" you would want subsonic.
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:15:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I suppose.... but at 55gr. less than 1000fps..... Your looking at 120ft/lbs That shot better be pretty well placed. It's pointless unless your hunting squirrels in your yard and you don't was to alarm the neighbors. |
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Posted: 9/4/2008 9:02:52 AM EDT
[#4]
actually,
I would love to hear feedback as well. I am looking for subsonic loads at 125 lb-ft for shooting exactly what you mentioned, squirrels! 55FMJ would be preferrable, I've seen people using 9gr of unique, but thats about it. |
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Posted: 9/4/2008 9:04:23 AM EDT
[#5]
I'd suggest handloading at the range w/ a chrony.
cw |
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Posted: 9/4/2008 11:34:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Unfortunately, I haven't had the time lately to develop a model for pressure with any common powders and don't want to spend the money for others who have. I am concerned with detonation from such a large (relatively to charge weight) volume case with a very fast burning pistol powder. Experienced reloaders have heard/seen/studied these events in other similar circumstances (45 colt/454 Casull come to mind.) If anyone has any educated input on the matter, please post!
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Posted: 9/4/2008 3:53:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Hodgdon did have sub-sonic data for .223 on their website.
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Posted: 9/5/2008 12:34:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Pushing a 55 grain pill subsonic through my suppressor and 14.5 inch barrel I use blue dot at 4.0 grains. It can go a little higher around 4.4-4.8 before going super sonic. I back it down becuase if I am shooting in my back yard I don't want under any circumstance for it to go super sonic and I have never had one stick in the barrel with 4.0 grains.
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Posted: 9/5/2008 5:37:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Anyone ever try any of these loads documented from Accurate?
Bullet Powder Grains Velocity CUP/psi 55 FMJ S1250 3.5 1139 13500 Pressure in PSI HDY 60 SP S1250 4.2 1111 19100 Pressure in PSI HDY 75 HPBT S1250 4.5 1052 22100 Pressure in Psi |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 1:37:09 PM EDT
[#10]
mo-guy,
hodgon's does have load data for using 55fmjs with titegroup and clays. I guess I can get a hold of some clays and give it a shot. I use primarily bullseye and unique for my pistol powders--bullseye would be a problem I think in a 223 case. I'll give the clays load a shot and let everyone know what I find out. Thanks for responding! |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 2:38:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Tried everything but the 75 grain didn't want to take a chance at not stabilizing the round and getting a baffle strike so I kept with the lighter bullets. I started with Accurate and Unique and they ran around the same grains (about what is recommended above) to keep it subsonic. I went with blue dot because you can fill more of the case with it and use a higher grain count and stay subsonic. This gives a more consistent velocity due to a more even burn in the cartridge. |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 3:11:58 PM EDT
[#12]
what are the benefits of using a sub sonic round? i know it goes under the speed of sound, but what does that add that different from super sonic?
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Posted: 9/5/2008 4:47:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Why not just shoot .22lr?
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Posted: 9/5/2008 5:54:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Range report
used 3.2gr of clays in LC cases and the 55 FMJ at 2.220 COAL for ~1000fps. Keyholing at 100 yards out of a bushmaster 24" 1/9. I'm going to try and pick up some 40 grainers and try again. Why I want a subsonic 223 instead of using 22 LR isn't the topic of this post I'm afraid and I won't go OT. What twist barrel are you shooting with your supressor? |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 6:54:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for the feedback Recoil737. Are you using moly coated 55gr rounds or are you lubing the rounds before you fire them? I see folks talk about using lubed rounds when trying to load subsonic 5.56. |
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Posted: 9/6/2008 8:19:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Yeah you know, for what it's worth I am in the camp that says buy a good 22LR conversion. That is all your doing anyway is slowing the projo down to .22LR speeds. The main difference is SS .223 will not cycle the action on a AR15/M16 but a conversion kit will cycle. There are down sides to the conversion, but if you get a good kit and magazines then your set. You can buy ammo anywhere that will work in your suppressor. Also .22 suppressors are cheaper than .223 suppressors. So for some minor cycling hiccups that can mostly be worked out you get a gun that cycles vs one that doesn't, ammo that can be bought instead of handloaded, ammo prices that are cheap ($40 per 500rds of Rem SS 22LR) and your suppressor is cheaper too.
[email protected] |
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Posted: 9/6/2008 11:31:09 PM EDT
[#17]
IMI used to sell a 62Gn subsonic 5.56mm load.
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Posted: 9/7/2008 1:51:13 AM EDT
[#18]
No lube/moly I am not that high tech. I just load them to a degree that will be accurate to 100 yards and still provide more punch than a .22 but if I really want a consistent burn I will load the powder then pack in some cotton to keep the powder on the bottom.
There are three reasons that I load subsonic .223. -They don't lead up my AAC M4-2000 suppressor like a .22 does. (I have a dedicated spikes upper and an SWR Warlock for that). -my 62 grain provides nearly double the energy of the standard .22 round and I can use 60 grain v-max if I want a little expansion. (for those that think you will be getting up and walking away after being shot with something like this. The ss-109 62 grain penetrates around 2 1/4 full sizes phone books while the 60 grain v-max gets about 1 3/4 full size phone books at 15 yards). -The most important reason I use subsonic .223 is that I can interchange a sub sonic round with a full power round with a pull of the charging handle. This allows stealth when needed and a full power round is only a quick pull away. p.s. The subsonic rounds through the can are nearly as quiet as my Ruger pistol and rifle shooting .22 through their can. Most of what you hear on the .223 is the impact of the bullet and the slight releasing and trying to cycle of the bolt/carrier. Unfortunatly my loads won't fully cycle the bolt. |
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Posted: 9/7/2008 1:59:57 AM EDT
[#19]
.300 Whisper might be in your future.
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Posted: 9/7/2008 3:46:55 AM EDT
[#20]
I tried a bunch of Extreme Shock 100, and 120 grain subsonics that would leave a dent in something. I couldn't get decent groups at 50 though.
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Posted: 9/7/2008 12:40:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Have all the specs for the whisper but no can for it. I have heard it on videos and it seems a little loud compared to the sub .223. I would love to hear it in person before investing in the dies/upper/barrel and can. I do like the thought of pushing a 240 grain bullet at near silent speeds though.
What twist barrel were you using? Did they cycle reliably? Did you ever pull one apart and see what kind of powder they were using? My Hornady 55 grain sp/ss109 62 grain and 60 grain V-max all are capable of hitting a raccoon at 100 yards about 80 percent of the time. They are by no means tack drivers but they do fairly well compared to what my .22 can do. I have wanted to work up a load using the 100 to 120 grain but I only have a 1/7 twist and understand that to get any real stabilization it would need something tighter. I have already had a baffle strike once (not with subsonic) and that took my suppressor out for over 8 weeks. So I don't want to take the chance of one not fully stabilizing and striking another baffle. |
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Posted: 9/8/2008 4:32:07 PM EDT
[#22]
If you'd rather have subsonic .223 just for the sake of being quiet then you may as well run .22LR with Agulia SSS, that gets you pretty much the same thing, and I guarantee it's quieter. |
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Posted: 9/8/2008 10:05:07 PM EDT
[#23]
winchester 64 grain soft point, molly coated. I think I used 7 or 8 gr of Trail boss.
Also, Hornady 75 grain Match hollow point, molly coated. About the same amount of trail boss. I am at work, and do not have my records here, and I am guessing at the trail boss powder weights. I know it was the trail boss powder though. It was close to a compressed load, and more consistant than my other efforts. Note: the molly was a spray on type from midway (probably, I don't remember for sure) |
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Posted: 9/12/2008 7:05:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Hey thanks for all the good info!!! The point of making this thread was to get rid of some pesky birds in the backyard without disturbing my neighbors. When i shoot em with one of my .22s its to loud, i don't have a can for my 22s. But i have a can for my M4 and the CMMG 22 conversion kit is on backorder. I just wanted some dead silence fast. Thank you
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Posted: 9/17/2008 3:21:07 PM EDT
[#25]
get your .22lr threaded for your can - they make 60 grn subsonic .22lr rounds. that should cut down noise about 100%
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Posted: 9/24/2008 9:51:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Any ideas on how to make the subsonic round cycle? I am loading them with 5.8 grains of IMR 4064 with Hornady 68 Grain HPBT match rounds. They chrono around 917 fps with my YHM Phantom. The action doesn't cycle but it's very quiet.
These are good rounds for varmit control and work nicely in a 25 yard range with a laser device and/or Eotech 553. What are your thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/25/2008 11:38:56 AM EDT
[#27]
I know a guy who made some special subsonic cases where the inside volume of the case was reduced so that you would get just enough pressure to burn all the powder and get enough pressure to cycle. This was with .308 though. |
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Posted: 9/25/2008 10:05:35 PM EDT
[#28]
I have not been able to get any subsonic .223 loads to cycle in an AR. I think that a simple blow back action, like what is used in the 22LR conversions would be needed. That would limit that upper to the subsonic loads. It is not worth it to me, I have used .223 subsonic, but I have given up on getting them to cycle in an upper I could use for full velocity loads.
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Posted: 9/26/2008 9:39:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Negative... 60 grain SSS will give port noise. You want regular subsonic. |
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Posted: 9/26/2008 9:40:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Current Extreme Shock 100 grain and the older 127 grain ammo cycles the AR and is subsonic. |
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