I just received a case of Q3131A lot # VA92.  I put 300 rounds downrange last weekend with no problems once so ever.  I did several mag dumps and ever round fed, fired and ejected with 100% reliability.  I collected and check all the cases and there were no signs of blown primers or excessive pressure.  It was beautiful!

JoeInCt-
Did you pick up your case of q3131A lot UF21 at Hoffmans? I picked up a case 2 weeks ago - I was at Metacon, and had several feeding problems - primers werent getting butchered, 2 rounds kept feeding instead of 1. Went through less than 200 rds.

Set-up - Bushmaster 16" dissipator, Labelle mags green followers. Never had prob with q3131a, this problem happened several times.

We had to cut our session short b/c we were losing the sun. But just so it's out there - I have never had a problem with so much as a Wolfs round in the past.

Field stripped when I got home, rifle did not seem to be the issue.

If anybody has similar  issues with q3131A lot UF21 - please advise.

I am not going to be able to shoot again for a week, I get to go visit the inlaws this week in Wisconsin

- thanks

Quoted: JoeInCt- Did you pick up your case of q3131A lot UF21 at Hoffmans? I picked up a case 2 weeks ago - I was at Metacon, and had several feeding problems - primers werent getting butchered, 2 rounds kept feeding instead of 1. Went through less than 200 rds. Set-up - Bushmaster 16" dissipator, Labelle mags green followers. Never had prob with q3131a, this problem happened several times. We had to cut our session short b/c we were losing the sun. But just so it's out there - I have never had a problem with so much as a Wolfs round in the past. Field stripped when I got home, rifle did not seem to be the issue. If anybody has similar  issues with q3131A lot UF21 - please advise. I am not going to be able to shoot again for a week, I get to go visit the inlaws this week in Wisconsin - thanks

Feed problems are almost always associated with the magazine or rifle.  Fail to fire and extraction issues can be the ammo but it could also be the rifle.  Check your mags in another rifle if you have one and document which mags seem to be having feeding issues.  This will help narrow down what is causing the problem.

Feed problems are almost always associated with the magazine or rifle. Fail to fire and extraction issues can be the ammo but it could also be the rifle. Check your mags in another rifle if you have one and document which mags seem to be having feeding issues. This will help narrow down what is causing the problem.

You are on the money, and we had 3 rifles down there - we had less than a 1/2 hour to shoot outside so I didnt have a chance to run the mags through another one of our ARs.

Thing is - I have used the 55 Gr. Q3131A for the life of the rifle - never had a feed problem (with the Labelle mags & others).

I red flagged the post because I noticed the JoeInCT posted he had a case of the same lot Uf21 that I bought locally, but he hasnt had any issues it seems.

Thanks for the info eitherway, much  appreciated.

Yes, from Hoffmans. I visit there periodically, especially before or after a shoot at Blue Trail, because it's the only place I know that carries both Q3131A and Win 62gr on a regular basis.

BTT

Yes, from Hoffmans. I visit there periodically, especially before or after a shoot at Blue Trail, because it's the only place I know that carries both Q3131A and Win 62gr on a regular basis.

That's usually my routine

Well, I know our ammo  came off the same pallet. I am sure the feeding problem had to originate with my rifle now, havent had a chance to get back  to the range yet and put this to bed.

Quoted: I know it isn't much help (since I don't have lot numbers), but I fired about 400 rounds of Q3131A this past weekend with no problems.  I recently purchased the case from which most of the ammo was shot, if that makes any difference.  Rifle was a home-built RRA with a RRA chrome-lined M4 barrel. Now, the interesting part is a friend of mine (kblagg on this site) fired his brand new rifle last week and had a blown primer.  Ammo was Q3131A.  He didn't have any lot numbers; all the ammo was loaded in mags and he tossed out the boxes.  The first two shots went off without a problem.  The third round blew the primer, which ended up stuck in the cam pin cutout on the bolt!  Locked the carrier up so badly we had to beat it out of the upper with a screwdriver and hammer!  I've never seen a jam like that.  Out of the next few rounds kblagg had another few blown primers.  One got into the fire control area and caused some minor problems. Wish I had more info than that, but thought I'd share what I had.  From now on I know to keep track of ammo lots when I'm storing loaded magazines.

The case I picked up when you got yours is lot VE01.  I fired 150 rounds that same weekend with no failures.  BTW, please keep at least 100 feet from my rifle with that hammer of yours, ok?  

Swankforce

Hope you resolve.

This issue is not resolved yet in general, however.

No expert, but I get the impression we are dealing with some instances of primers improperly loaded, improperly set, rounds loaded too hot, out of spec cases, or various combinations thereof.

To be continued. Thanx to all members who have contributed so far. We all benefit.

Well, I have received about 30 rounds of Brillo's Q3131A.  I will test it out in my BM 16" when I have a chance, and provide a range report asap.

One of my friends had a (LEO) Colt M-4 a few months ago that would choke on Winchester ammunition.  It was determined the chamber was out of spec.  We replaced the barrel with an extra Bushmaster barrel and the problem was resolved.  

We fired more VA92 (purchased from Miwall) this week and have had no problems.

Quoted: I just bought a case of Lot VA82.  I am pleased to report that in 80 rounds fired there were no malfunctions, blown primers or damaged/deformed brass.  40 rounds fired in each of two different barrels having 5.56 chambers. Accuracy was as good as any other lot I've used.  In fact, I shot what may be my best 200yd group with A2 open sights ever...  20 rounds fired prone at an SRC target at 200yds - 17 rounds inside the 10 ring (4 X's) and 3 rounds in the 9 ring.

Fired 200 rounds from two cases of VA82. No problems at all. Accuracy was also noted to be better than usual.

40 more rds of UF21 thru my DPMS A2 today. No issues.

Quoted: I just bought a case of Lot VA82.  I am pleased to report that in 80 rounds fired there were no malfunctions, blown primers or damaged/deformed brass.  40 rounds fired in each of two different barrels having 5.56 chambers.

Update:  I fired an additional 60 rounds of VA82 and no problems.  That's a total now of 140 rounds of VA82 through 3 rifles with no troubles.

I shoot 10% of a case before it qualifies for long-term storage.  My VA82 has passed and I'm confident in it.

I wish there was some obvious trend to these failures!  Rastus has blown primers in VA82, but I don't.  Perplexing.

I had 3-4 rounds out of approx 500 rds of Q3131A that would not fire because the primer was placed incorrectly.  These defective rounds are easy to spot as the look smeared in appearance and are not round like a normal primer.  Lot No. VA 92

I look at the primers before I load them from now on......

BTT

Quoted: I had 3-4 rounds out of approx 500 rds of Q3131A that would not fire because the primer was placed incorrectly.  These defective rounds are easy to spot as the look smeared in appearance and are not round like a normal primer.  Lot No. VA 92 I look at the primers before I load them from now on......

pics of the smears?

My son advised that he fired 80 rds of Lot UF21 Sunday at his range in PA without issue, but IHO they were definitely loaded hot.

Quoted: Did there used to be a problem with Q3131 similar to this?  Or am I thinking of something else?

Bout 4 yers ago this was a BIG problem.

BTT

Quoted: Swankforce Hope you resolve. This issue is not resolved yet in general, however. No expert, but I get the impression we are dealing with some instances of primers improperly loaded, improperly set, rounds loaded too hot, out of spec cases, or various combinations thereof. To be continued. Thanx to all members who have contributed so far. We all benefit.

Looks like it's time to switch to WOLF!  

BTT

I've had no issues with Lots TC42 or UH40.

Here is the tally so far:

Problems reported with Lots:
TD51
TK42
UF21
UM11
VA82
VA92

No problems reported with Lots:
SF12
TC42
TD80
TK91
UH30
UH40
VE01

Anyone try Lot #TK22? Have a case of this stuff

Mick

Quoted: I've had no issues with Lots TC42 or UH40. Here is the tally so far: Problems reported with Lots: TD51 TK42 UF21 UM11 VA82 VA92 No problems reported with Lots: SF12 TC42 TD80 TK91 UH30 UH40 VE01

BTT

***UPDATE***


For those that arent aware, Brillo sent me 30 rounds of the Q3131A he was having problems with.  I finally manage to get out to the shooting range, even though it was pouring.  Now, this shooting range only allows me to load 1 round in a rifle at a time.  So I dont know if this will skew any of the results, but here we go.

Background:

I have a Bushmaster 16" carbine.  HBAR, with about ~900 rounds through it using Q3131A exclusively.  In the previous 900 rounds or so, not a single problem.  No jams, malfunctions, nothing.  

Results:

Out of the 30 rounds I fired of Brillo's batch, all of the rounds fired without a single problem.  I was able to locate about ~15 of the spent casings to inspect them.  All of the primers were intact.  Everything didnt seem to be out of the ordinary, except for 1 casing.  The neck had a ding on it, but that was probably caused by it falling/ejecting and hit the concrete.

Conclusion,  granted, I have a smaller sample of the batch Brillo was having problems with, but in that sample, I had no problems with Q3131A

Another 100 rds of UF21 thru my DPMS A2 today without issue.

BTT

100 rounds of VA92. No problems.

Success! Q3131A Lot: VG41  80 rounds, no malfunctions.

Bushmaster HBAR 16", New, April 2004

History Summary:
1000 rounds Q3131A, 1 FTF.
1000 rounds XM193, no malfunctions.
1000rounds AE223, 1 FTF.

and then Q3131A, Lot: VA92 - ~ 10% blown primer rate out of 120 rounds - 4 blown primers out of last 8 rounds shot. Sent remainder of case back to Winchester, their last letter stated testing was still in progress and I should expect compensation shortly.  Very good response and communication from Winchester throughout this process.

Tested with 5.56 FIELD gauge, bolt does not close on gauge.

Purchased another case of Q3131A, Lot VG41 yesterday morning from Bass Pro Shops.
40 rounds Q3131A, no malfunctions.
40 rounds XM193, no malfunctions.
40 rounds Q3131A, no malfunctions.

The only thing I can conclude is that this particular rifle does not like Q3131A, Lot VA92, but I remain a little hesitant to trust this rifle/ammo combo for long-term reliability.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and input, and to A96HondaAccordEX for taking the time to test this batch of ammo in his rifle.

Fired 120rds from my 1,000rd case  Lot VE01 no problems

180 rnds of Q3131A (lot VA92) w/DPMS RFA2-AP4A (16" barrel)
No problems.

BTT

LOT VE21  - Shoot 200 today, had one round the primer went off but not the powder.  I don't think it had a primer hole, small part of the primer was blown out, the rest stayed in the case.

550 rounds of VA92 without a single problem so far.

BTT

Some continue to experience issues.

Had 10 more today out of 180. VA82 again.

A few weeks ago I had Bushmaster rebarrel two uppers for me.  One got a 20" Government type bbl  and the other got a 16" M4.  Both are pre-ban configuration.  I got the 20" back first.  Up to today,  I had shot around 250 rounds (Q3131 from 1998 and Q3131A from 1999).  It shot great with not function problems.

Today, I took the 20" out again AND the 16" for the first time.  I had just received 5 boxes of Q3131A from Midway...Lot VA92!  I took two boxes of it out with some other ammo.

I shot 20 rounds through the 20" Gov bbl.  Since it was the first time shooting this lot, I checked the spent cases.  They looked fine.  I then loaded up a magazine with 10 rounds of the second box of Lot VA92 from 2003 and put it in the 16" Bushy.  When round 4 fired, the bolt/carrier did not move out of battery.  I pulled back on the charging handle and NOTHING....no movement at all.  A cease-fire was being called and I had to clear the weapon.  I thought I had a stuck case.  I grabbed the charging handle and while pulling down, I hit the butt of the AR on the shooting bench.  Bit by bit it moved and eventually got the bolt back far enough that the case flipped out.  It had not been stuck...because after the case flipped out, the bolt/carrier was still very jammed...only now the carrier was over 2" back in the recoil tube.  I could not clear the jam.  I took the rilfe home and called Bushmaster.

Before going home, I looked at the spent case from the last round fired that I had thought was stuck...it looked fine...maybe some very light flattening of the primer.  I looked around at my ejected brass and one of the cases was WITHOUT a primer...blown completely out.

After giving me a Return Authorization number, they transferred me to a technician, Jim.  I told him what had happen and he told me that they've seen some blown primers get into some God-awful places.  He thinks that a blown primer from round 3 got into some God-awful place.  I said well, two things seem funny.  First, the Bushy with the original post-ban bbl had 2,000 rounds of various Q3131, Q3131A, Spanish NATO, Canadian C-77 NATO and LC 74 without even a flutter.  Now, it gets a new bbl and on round 4 major failure.  Second, I fired a 20 round box out of the 20" and examined the spent cases and they looked great...no pressure signs at all.  Anyway, he said they will go though it.  He requested that I send the ammo box with Lot number on along with the AR.  I told him I would send the Q3131A box with the remaining 10 rounds in it and the other 6 rounds that remained in the magazine after the failure.  In addition, I sent him the "last" case, the "blown" case and the spent cases that I could find (12 of them).

I'm affraid that I will hear the same old thing.  Bushmaster will say that it's the ammo.  Then I will write Winchester and they will say that it's the chamber, headspace, or whatever.

I can tell you this, I have three cases of Q3131A from 1999 (2 of PF70 and 1 of PF20).  I have also shot a couple of cases of these two lot numbers and they're great.  I will cherish these three cases, but I will not buy any of this new Q3131A again.

I will report what Bushmaster has to say.

TexasTea (aka Denver Dick)

Very interesting.  I just finished off my case of VA92 last week not a single problem with the ammo.   So that's 1000+30 rounds (Brillo's) of VA92 for me and not a single primer problem.  I was even rapid firing.  Had the barrel smoking.  Good times.

TT-Most of the rounds I've had with blown primers have ejected just fine and I don't know they're blown till I pick up the empties. Sometimes though the case stays in the chamber. When this happens about 50-50% it will try to feed another round into the chamber, the other 50% it won't cycle and all I get is a click.

When the brass is not ejected it easily falls out when I hit the buttstock.

I've noticed a lot of brass with entire primer gone and a lot where it's almost gone, ie, I pick up the case and shake it & the primer bounces back & forth.

When the primer bolws out completely it usually falls into the lower and binds up the safety. Sometimes it gets stuck between the bolt & barrel extension but not very often.

This is the first bad experience I've had with any Winchester ammo, pistol or rifle, and Win is all I shoot.

Well, if Bushmaster comes back and says, "oops" there's something wrong with the chamber, throat, headspace or whatever, then I may change my tune.  On Monday, I will be taking delivery of a case of LC XM193 boxed up by Federal.  I've read some really good stuff about it.  We'll see.

I started using Q3131A back in 2000 when regular Q3131 was giving everyone fits (stuck cases, blown primer and even split cases).  I bought around 5 cases Q3131A all dated '99 (PF20, PF22 and PF70).  I shot a case each of PF22 and PF70 and never a flutter...I thought PF70 was just a tad more accurate.

Until I hear back from Bushmaster, I've placed the remaining 7 boxes of 2003 Q3131A (3 - VA92 and 4 - VE21) under quarantine.  If Bushmaster says its the ammo, I'm going to package-up all 7 boxes and send them to Winchester and tell them where to stick them (nicely, of course).  Last time I had trouble with Winchester ammo (some silvertip .308 Win. in 2000), they sent me a check for the full retail value of the ammo and a nice letter.  They're a class organization, but I want ammo I can trust, regardless who manufactures it.

TexasTea (aka Denver Dick)

240 more rnds (420 total) of Q3131A (lot VA92) in DPMS
No Problems

Tagged. I just picked up 2 cases at BassPro this last weekend. ($2.88 raincheck and all) I need to check the lot # and post results when I shoot through some soon.

100 more rounds of UF21 thru my DPMS A2 on Saturday without issue.

I just ordered a case from Ammoman, and VA82 is the lot that arrived.  I've already shot 200rds of VA82 (from a different case) through 3 different rifles, so I'm not too worried about any problems, but I thought I'd pass this info along for anyone trying to avoid certain lots.

I've shot about 400 rounds or so out of my case (lot VE21) and had no problems so far. Kinda laery now bout shooting the rest until someone figures out whats going on.

Tagged:

Also thanks to all who have submitted info...I had planned to pick up a case or two, now I'll hold off.