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Posted: 4/29/2004 9:01:28 PM EDT
[#1]
77 Grain. Zero Doubt. |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 7:37:22 AM EDT
[#2]
I concure. |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 8:18:34 AM EDT
[#3]
The 77, 75, 69 and 68 OTM loads will make the 55 gr cry in shame...
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Posted: 4/30/2004 12:32:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Both will "fragment" dramatically.
The better questions are: which will cause more damage create the bigger wound channel have the shortest neck penetrate the farthest defeat barriers effectively. Fragmentation is a means to an end. Both bullets could fragment completely and have very different results. Wish the Best of B&T ammo labs thread was back 
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Posted: 4/30/2004 12:57:44 PM EDT
[#5]
77 grain.
77 grain.
77 grain (more reliable neck too).
77 grain.
77 grain. |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 1:58:41 PM EDT
[#6]
IIRC M855 is better for terminal performance AFTER defeating light barrier.
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Posted: 4/30/2004 2:10:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Been shooting 55gr M193 since (well forever!).
Where can I buy this 77 gr. bullet ammo? Can I buy the bullet and handload it? If the answer to both is no, the 77 gr stuff is unavailable, then 55gr is still best! PLEASE ADVISE!! |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 3:08:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Can you show some citations to this assertion? |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 3:39:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Both Nosler and Sierra make 77gr JHP-BT Match bullets (known by the military as "OTM" or "Open-Tip Match", since "hollowpoint" sounds politically incorrect). Black Hills loads these bullets for the military as "Mk262 Mod1" ammo, and sells a lighter-loaded version of this as a match round commercially. The military loads also used cannalured bullets, while the match loads don't. Black Hills does not normally make the military loads available to civilians, but Tommy at Georgia Precision organized a couple of group buys on it for us. I'm not sure if there will be another one, and it typically takes 4-5 months for a group buy to be completed. Note that the Hornady 75gr bullet is also an excellent choice, and has also been used by the military as "Mk262 Mod0". -Troy |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 3:43:36 PM EDT
[#10]
http://www.georgiaprecision.com/cart/LoadedAmmo.htm
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Posted: 4/30/2004 4:51:50 PM EDT
[#11]
No, I don't remember. However, I saw the pic on Tacticalforums and I did save the picture.  Sorry I don't remember who posted this, and I'm posting it without permission. |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 5:30:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Excellent. Thanks. Looks like Dr. Roberts' work perhaps. |
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Posted: 4/30/2004 11:02:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Not that I want to spoil the consensus, but I do recall reading not that long ago of an incident in Iraq when an Iraqi was engaged at close range (25 yards) by US troops. Despite apparently being shot several times, he carried on fighting and killed two of his opponents before he was finally dropped with a .45. When he was examined he was found to have sustained seven solid body hits from 5.56mm weapons - and the ammo being used was reportedly the 77 grain Mk 262.
Now that might have been just the kind of freak incident that sometimes occurs, but SOCOM can't be that pleased with the 5.56mm or they wouldn't have sponsored the development of the 6.8x43. Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum |
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Posted: 5/1/2004 6:10:43 AM EDT
[#14]
There is absolutely no "spoling the consensus." We want to know about these thingg BADLY because they can modify our approach to choosing defensive ammo. If you can get any citiations to this report that would be a good thing. I don't know about anyone else but my goal is just to get the best ammo in my weapon. In order to do that I need to know what the best ammo is. |
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Posted: 5/1/2004 9:19:34 AM EDT
[#15]
I think that the consensus is that the 77gr ammo is the best 5.56 load available. Most of us know that it certainly isn't the best CALIBER for near-instant stops. It's pretty clear that the 6.8mm SPC will improve upon even the best 5.56mm loads, but will be something less than the best .308/7.62x51mm loads (155 A-Max). Like nearly everything in life, any choice that you make will be a compromise between terminal ballistic effectiveness, size, weight, host weapons available, mag capacity, full-auto suitability, and so on. 6.8 SPC should be a great balance between 5.56mm and 7.62mm. -Troy |
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Posted: 5/1/2004 10:24:58 AM EDT
[#16]
I read recently that that whole incident was mis-reported and the BG was struck dead with the first round and didn't fall over and was mistakenly shot repeated times afterwards. |
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Posted: 5/1/2004 11:36:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Regardless of what happened, there are too many variables involved to make assumptions about the effectiveness of a specific round based on a single field event. The issue of penetration through a loaded AK mag is similar: too many variables. did the round go through the base of the mag and only penetrate springs? did it go through the actual bullet or just the brass? did it center punch a single cartridge or hit the seam between 2? loaded ak mags make an interesting "real world" test, but they are an inherantly inconsistent barrier, and prone to great fluctuations in results. I'd rather see the bullet pass through plate steel or layered windshield glass before hitting the gelatin. At least those are consistant. I am flattered that austrian replied in my post  I guess my simple response is 77 |
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Posted: 5/1/2004 12:59:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Who else is selling the BlackHills 77gr match ammo? Georgia Precision is out
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Posted: 5/1/2004 1:53:49 PM EDT
[#19]
I looked into this a bit and talked with a colleague of mine who is in the biz. That particular incident involved 77 grain Sierra Match King rounds. (This back and forth between Nosler and SMK was a result of SMK's early rounds having no cannelures and then putting them in when Nosler was specified). Sergeant First Class Bennett and Master Sergeant Morehead (may their service never be forgotten) were killed in September by an Iraqi with an AKM who received multiple hits of 5.56 77 grain Sierra Match King. Versus 77 grain Nosler rounds the Sierra Match King rounds are a bit more accurate but have longer (and erratic) necks before yaw and fragmentation. This means that, as with M855, malnourished or skinny aggressors can get lucky. You can read more about the heroes in this article from the Leaf Chronicle. [edited to add the article link, remove some idiocy, improve my typing.] |
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Posted: 5/1/2004 9:30:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks for the link.
-Troy |
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