User Panel
Posted: 6/2/2008 8:03:03 PM EDT
MURLM (Multi-Use Rail & Light Mount)
Hello all, As most know TNVC has continued to support the shooting community with innovative products such as the SAR (Scope Accessory Ring Rail) that was released 2 years ago that has enabled a great many folks the luxury of mounting a mini red dot (MRD) or any other accessory to a scope or shotgun tube in a multitude of positions where rail space on a gun may be limited. We are very proud to present our next product entry, which is called the MURLM (Multi-Use Rail & Light Mount). The 1st prototype MURLM was shown for the first time at SOF week in Tampa Florida and also at the NDIA Show in Texas with representation from Aimpoint Inc. The units were very well received and we also received some very valuable feedback from some incredible folks! A bit of history about the MURLM, In 2007, suggestions and requests from the shooting community asked TNVC to continue work on mini red dot (MRD) back-up mounting solutions for magnified optics, specifically for ACOG systems and dedicated NV platforms. With this in mind, we set out on these objectives. 1. To eliminate the “chin welds” of MRD’s mounted high at the 12 o’clock positions and enable the shooter to maintain a low profile and a solid platform especially while shooting on the move. 2. To offset an MRD at an optimum angle that would only require a very small rifle cant or “look-over” while maintaining the same cheek weld and could also be used while employing a gas mask. (Specifically the M53). 3. Combine this mounting solution with a lightweight flashlight to avoid separate mounts on a weapon. 4. The flashlight portion of the mount needed to be offset for VG wrap-around activation and also incorporate a very fast and strong QD system that a user could hand hold light weight lights (i.e. G2’s) and/or attach and remove a light from the weapon in very short order. 5. The ring system of the light needed to be low profile to transition to a hand hold fighting light if needed that was easily removed from the weapon. The first concept approach in 2007 was mounting TNVC’s SAR 1 to a flashlight body, which an MRD sight was then offset on the light itself. We had several shooters prove the initial concept with great success, thus the MURLM was born! Presently the MURLM depicted in the pics below is in the pre-prototype shoot phase. We are very happy with the results of this unit. Some highlights of the MURLM include, 1. Lightweight metal construction hard anodized. Durability critical! Weight of the MURLM is at 3.4oz bare. 2. Hex screw hard mounting solution of the MURLM body to picatinny rail systems, which includes a recoil lug for maintaining zero of any optic mounted. 3. 1” variable sized low profile light ring with a proprietary quick detach system. This system uses a small tab release system that releases light from the front of the MURLM. It's very fast to say the least to remove and replace the light in about a second or two! All testing with the MURLM will continue to include the use of Aimpoint’s Micro T1, which is the primary optic of choice for the MURLM due to the unit’s absolute durability critical standardization. Aimpoint has set the standard with this MRD for incredible durability, small size, battery life (5 years power on), and NV use. We can think of no better MRD optic to reach our mission requirements. Of course MRD's such as a Doctor Optic, Triji RedDot, J-Point, etc. are also perfectly aligned for use as well. Upon initial release late this summer, TNVC will be offering combo packages of the Micro T1 and high lumen lights with substantial discounts when purchased as a combo. Price for the stand-alone MURLM will retail at $189.00 Here are the **SPECIAL** MURLM Combo Packages MURLM/Aimpoint Micro T-1/Surefire G2L/256 Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $783.00 MURLM/Aimpoint Micro T-1/Surefire 6P/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $774.00 MURLM/Aimpoint Micro T-1/Surefire G2/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $752.00 MURLM/Aimpoint Micro T1 - $674.00 MURLM/RDP/Surefire G2L/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $432.00 MURLM/RDP/Surefire 6P/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $428.00 MURLM/RDP/Surefire G2/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $407.00 MURLM/RDP - $289.00 MURLM/Surefire G2L/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $293.00 MURLM/Surefire 6P/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $288.00 MURLM/Surefire G2/256 Lumen Drop-In Q5 Lamp - $267.00 After initial release, we will be offering several more options to the MURLM, these will include, 1. A dual sided rail for users with existing throw lever light systems that will enable this gear to attach into the MURLM so these users can enjoy the very fast attachment feature. 2. A new stand-alone offset light mount with the same QD features of the MURLM. 3. A line up of other quick-detach component mechanisms for helmets and other gear. As always, TNVC is happy to showcase its products here on the ARFCOM and we’re very happy with the success of the MURLM thus far. We will be showing additional pics here in the new products section so please check back from time to time. The original prototype MURLM pics will be shown in my Industry section TNVC along with these pics to show our progression thus far. Presently the MURLM shoot models are out with key individuals in the shooting community. TNVC has been traveling to many arenas over the last few weeks showcasing the tactical advantages with this system. We have put thousands of rounds down range so far with very impressive target engagements. We should be wrapping up the shoot results and feedback early August and ready for production shortly thereafter. If you’re interested in becoming some of the first folks to own a MURLM, please email us as we’re continuing our pre-order call list. We currently have lots of folks on the call list and have more room to fill the first production run. We will keep you all updated on the progress of this unit which we sincerely hope will assist the shooting community. We are very excited about the MURLM. Thanks all! Vic Stand Alone MURLM Back side attach points With MRS's A few familiar pics showing just how compact and slim lined the MURLM has become. (Lot's of folks have asked what all the other support gear is, I have listed listed the load outs on Pg.3) This is a rear shot of the MURLM showing the shooters slight cant as he engages the dot of the Micro T1. Notice the compact profile and no change in cheek welds. This pic also depicts just how slim lined the light is tucked into the weapon. Here is a very important shot of the MURLM showing just how close the MURLM is in relation to the ACOG. The is key for the fast transition to and from the ACOG. You will also notice just how slim lined the light is positioned. Other than the Viking Tactics offset mount, no other mounting solution is as compact as the MURLM. Another front view showing the light mount tab release a bit more. The user simply presses the tab and pushes the light forward to release the light assembly. Here is an updated pic showing the light portion detached. Another important MURLM job is to back up dedicated NV magnified optics. Many times when the fight goes CQB "WHITE", the user must still have the ability stay in the fight effectively. The MURLM will assist in a big way. MORE PICS COMING, SO PLEASE CHECK BACK! Thanks all! Vic |
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Congratulations Victor!
Guys- I have personally handled the MURLM prototype and am convinced that it is one of the most innovative concepts I have seen in a long time! I never liked the idea of mounting a mini red dot on top of an ACOG. It just seemed too high. But the MURLM solves that problem. The angle is perfect! You can transition so smoothly between the two optics that it is almost as if they were in line with each other. Canting the weapon is so minimal that you almost don't feel like you are canting it at all and it's even possible to just shift your head slightly to pick up the dot. I really believe that this mount is going to revolutionize the way shooters run ACOGS. BTW: The "Stormtrooper" in the first pic is sporting the US Army's new M53 Respirator. |
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A big fat congrats to Vic. Can't wait to use this in conjunction with my ACOG on my go-to-gun.
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The light mount is another aspect that I really like about this mount! While I can't talk about the mechanics of the system, I will say that it is very intuitive and very practical. The ability to quickly and easily remove the light from the mount provides a lot of options to the shooter, the most obvious of which being a scenario where a tertiary light is needed for a situation that he/she cannot or should not point a weapon.
The other thing that I was very surprised with was how easily the light could be removed and reattached. The mounting system is very quick and easy to manipulate. I even got a chance to try it with gloves and was very surprised at how easy it was with the limited dexterity. There's going to be some more refinements to the MURLM before it is released and from what Vic tells me, they will further enhance this unit's functionality! To say I am stoked would be an understatement. |
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This looks like another excellent innovation from TNVC; I can't wait to try one out.
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How do you transition to the RDS when shooting support side only?
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The mount is ambidextrous, so you can mount it on either side without compromising functionality. If you have it on the weapon's right side and you have to transition to your left shoulder, you are still good to go. All you have to do is shift your eyes very slightly to pick up the dot. You don't even have to cant to the rifle. Since you run an RDS with both eyes open anyway, I actually found that I simply had to shift my focus while shouldering the weapon on my support side. |
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Any problems acquiring the dot when shooting urban or SBU prone?
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Just like any other new piece of kit, you will have to train with it a lot before betting your life on it. I didn't have any problems with it in these positions. Trust me, the first thing I did when I handled the MURLM was to run it through as many shooting positions as I could. I could pick up the dot no problem. The other thing to be aware of is what you are wearing to the big event. If you are in good shape (no belly) and not wearing any gear, you will have a lot more freedom of movement to acquire these positions. However, if you are wearing a chest rig with 6 mags, or worse yet: full armor, then you will have to adapt your technique. I had the chance to try the MURLM with a respirator. While wearing a respirator sux in the first place, it is worse when trying o shoulder a weapon. I had to adjust the cant of the weapon more to pick up the dot while wearing this kit. But, this is just an example of adapting your training to implement evolving requirements and threats. Some of my buddies have been questioning me a lot about this product since they knew I had a chance to handle it. One of the main concerns is that it looks like it sticks out farther from the rails. Believe me: It is actually pretty compact for what it is. The part that sticks out the furthest is the light mount and it, actually, doesn't stick out further than any other offset light mount. The T-1 is actually closer to the center line of the weapon than the other offset mounts on the market. |
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Very cool... Thanks for the info. I've been thinking about replacing one of my Short Dots with a T-1/Mini ACOG TA33R-8 combination to bring the weight of my carbine down. I also like the instant switchover between RDS and magnified optic, as well as the ability to get a usable sight picture on the RDS irrespective of eye relief/shooting position (not always so easy with the Short Dot). |
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I'm going to step out here and be a tad bit different and proclaim this as a specialty piece of gear that I would not need or use.
Yes, I know how it all works together with an ACOG, but really.. I don't run an ACOG as a RED dot by itself does most of what an ACOG can do and I have yet to find a situation where I need both. Now the guy in the poster with a respirator....he can use this piece of gear.. Or 3 gunner who wants to use Optics for the long shot and the close in stuff as wlll. But for the great majority of users, this is just something that very few of us are ever going to need or use... Just sayin... |
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I agree. This is a great piece of kit that solves a major problem: transitioning to CQB distances when running a magnified optic. However, this is a problem that affects only those that are running a magnified optic like the ACOG. I would venture to say that this mount would even be helpful to those running variable power optics. When you are in a drama outside that, all of the sudden, moves indoors, and you are still engaging threats, you do not have the time to stop and set your optic to 1.5X and re-focus. You have to make this transition instantly. A lot of people run magnified optics and use an RDS backup. Just look at how many J-Point piggy-back ACOGs are being fielded. And that is a poor solution IMO. This mount sets a new paradigm in mini RDS setups. But, you are correct in saying that this mount will not do much for those running 1X RDS's only. |
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I think what Harv is saying is that an RDS can do most of what an ACOG can do, so running both on the same rifle makes little sense for most people. I agree that from 0-200 yards or so, an RDS will allow pretty fast COM hits, especially with lots of training and practice. However, I do like to take my 6.8 out to 500 or so, at which point an RDS just isn't cutting it. I've been running a couple of Short Dots to allow fast shots close in and some precision capability farther out, but these scopes run into the same parallax and eye relief issues that any magnified optic presents the shooter. If there is a solution that allows an RDS to be used up close with little or no head movement and no loss of speed, along with the capability of shooting support side or in odd positions -- while at the same time allowing for a magnified optic to get out to 500 yards, with no weight penalty or even a net weight loss vs a Short Dot -- I'm all for it. I have a DD offset rail mount coming for my T-1, so I'll see if that works out; if not, I may be in line for one of these units (although I use a light on the LH side due to my VFG hold). |
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Without trying to steal the thunder away from this mount, I just wanted to add that I really like the idea of having both magnified optics and a red dot. It's a killer combo when setup right (no pun intended). I did a very similar mounting solution that Victor set me up with that also works great for me.
http://www.fullvolumesound.com/stuff/Guns/Resized/T-1.JPG http://www.fullvolumesound.com/stuff/Guns/Resized/T-1%202.JPG http://www.fullvolumesound.com/stuff/Guns/Resized/T-1%203.JPG I'd highly reccomend trying out a mount like these if you are running a scope on your rig. |
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I apologize profusely if glossed over this while reading the specs about the mount but when is the expected release date? Hell, what about a broad timeframe so no one gets bent out of shape if its not delivered on the exact date.
First person to say, sometime in the future gets a smack. |
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It's coming out later this summer. I'll let Vic jump in with the dates as I am not at liberty to say. But, it is in the refinement stages as we speak. I will say that the changes being made are awesome and greatly increase the functionality and practicality of the MURLM. |
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You guys are going to be even more stoked to try it after seeing the refinements that have been made. When I say this thing is going to be awesome - I'm not kidding.
The final prototype is on its way and has had a lot of input by some nameless guys that do bad things to bad people. You guys are going to love it. I spoke to Vic the other day and the MURLM is on track for a late summer release. |
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I'll keep my post simple and to the point....just like the MURLM.
Many times we see products that answer questions nobody asks. Not the MURLM. It is an innovative design that will meet the needs of many shooters. Couple this with the already high level of service and quality at Tactical Night Vision and you get an outstanding piece of gear. Lets not forget that what we see is the Beta version and its only going to get better and better from here. Lastly, I have spents zillions with TacNight. Every penny was worth it and I was happy to spend my cash on Vic's products. How many dealers can you say that about? Hats off to you Victor! You hit a home run my friend!!! -Freddy |
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Quoted:
Would have come in handy when we were doing these drills, using decidedly non-square-range shooting positions. I was using a TA31F ACOG that day, not a particularly effective optic for CQB to begin with i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/Picture016.jpg Supine...in the mud....with a rifle!!! It doesn't get much better than that!!! Train like you fight....fight like you train. |
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The MURLM shoot models are NOW COMPLETE and we are EXTREMELY pleased with the results! Our photo guru will be taking a full line of pics and action shots. We will be posting these late next weekend. We will also be discussing release dates as well once the shoot pics go up. Thanks all!
Vic |
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Sorry but in my opinion this makes the gun way too wide. Too much stuff is hanging off the side where it can get knocked off. Not to mention it could never hope to fit in my patrol rifle case or gun rack. Pat |
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I was recently told by the OP this is a prototype model so my judgment may be too quick. I don't like what I see in the pic but perhaps the final version will be much more slim lined.
Pat |
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Does an M4 or SPR with a 3 o'clock mounted PEQ-2A and 9 o'clock mounted flash light fit a gun rack? Usability with a carrying case or gun rack haven't been the primary, periphery, or any design goals for accessories and firearms, as far as I know
I don't worry about gun rack, safe space, gun cases. I'll find ways to address these minor issues, that's easy and inexpensive enough. Not that it matters, the prototype is just that, it may not bear much resemblance to the production model. |
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I agree with Duffy.
I have seen the actual final model and let me assure you all that it is MUCH slimmer than the prototype shown. The prototype only tests the placement of the T1 and, in no way, resembles the final design. Believe me, the final model does not stick out any further than a regular side-mounted light. In fact, it actually seems to tuck in closer to the rail than the average light mount. As for fitting the weapon in a patrol car mount, I have yet to see a mount that accepts any sort of side-mounted device (lights, lasers, etc.). As for fitting it in a rifle case, that will not be a problem once you see the final product. |
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I seem to split use of an 11F and a T-1, both on LT mounts, on the most happy carbine depending on the anticipated target range; having both at the same time seems pretty damn appealing to me, albeit heavy and expensive.
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You will find out in a few weeks. |
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I said "most happy"...you know, the kind that runs flawlessly on everything from steel-cased Wolf to XM193 to 75 gr. TAP or BH 77 SMK's, even though it has not been thoroughly cleaned for several months and dozens of sessions, although lubed prior to each. The kind of carbine that you will grab first if things ever go to hell, or the one that you run during NV-aided drills in the pitch black of the new moon with overcast sky. To me, a happy carbine is one that is extremely reliable, and that one can depend on through significant use of same during hard conditions.....kinda like the Toyo-Heep that I built from scratch. Yeah, I sometimes think the carbine is smiling back at me too. |
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Why don't ya clean yer carbine? I clean mine after each trip.
I think Vic's MURLM will spur Micro T1 sales, I know i'm going to buy another T1 to use it on my MURLM, when it's released It can support a Docter or JPoint sight, but I can't imagine mounting one of these fragile things on it, unless it has a wing mount. Even then I'd sooner pony up for another T1 for its battery life. |
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When I clean a weapon, I clean it very thoroughly, and that takes some significant time and effort; the reason I don't do it every session for this particular weapon is that it quite simply doesn't need it to run reliably. I do apply a bit of Gunbutter to the action before every planned use though. This methodology has been working quite well for me, YMMV. My MRP and bolt guns get a bit more TLC than the beat-it-up rig. My Glocks see several hundred rounds or more before I do anything to them.
I agree that the T-1 is a wonderful device, and I actually bought two for my initial purchase; the MURLM seems to be a great compliment to it and the ACOG. One of these days, our friend Vic will put them in both of our hands. |
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Just a brief status report. We completed the shoot models last week and we are EXTREMELY pleased with the results!! As stated since the onset of our initial release, you will find this pre-production model incredibly streamlined to say the least and the light/ring portion is slimlined closer than most light sytems out there on the market. Selected shooters are rnow receiving the units as we travel to a few "selected" places to hand carry some MURLM's to a few special folk. We will have an extensive line of pics next week along with a full report on all the specific details folks have been asking about. Thanks all!
Vic |
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Lookin foward to the final results!! |
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Should have the new pics up by next weekend. We've been a bit busy with our travel schedule in regards to the shoot model MURLM's. Lot's or rounds going down range as of late and shooting on the move is a REAL joy to all the end users thus far. Transitioning from and to an ACOG is simply FAST with no wasted movements or head positioning. More to come...
Vic |
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HOLY SHIT!
That about sums up my impressions of the MURLM shoot model. I am currently in possession of a T&E "shoot model" of the MURLM and am completely blown away. You guys are going to love this thing. I have had the pleasure to be involved in the evaluation of the MURLM since the first prototype shown in the pics above. The concept was evident in the mock-up shown in the pics, but it needed a lot of refinement in the form before it was ready to start sending hadjis to their 72 virgins. Let me tell you; Vic hit this thing out of the park! The actual shoot model is everything it needs to be and more. It is tucked in very close to the bore (no more dog leg hanging out in the wind) and keeps the T1 in the exact same location. The entire unit sits in closer to the rail than a Surefire M9XXX. In fact, Kyle Lamb, former Delta, veteran of Mogadishu, and author of "Green Eyes & Black Rifles" (an awesome technical reference for anyone who shoots AR's) has one in his possession and is very happy with what he sees. Some other special folk have one as well and are giving the same response. Anyway, pics will be up this weekend and you guys aren't going to believe your eyes. I truly believe the MURLM is going to revolutionize the way magnified optics, ACOGs in particular, are deployed. |
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